All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

Dohnjoe

NaFirinne wrote: »

The reality is that many people are out of work, people are having life altering treatments postponed all the time. People are for the most part under house arrest, allowed out for excercise and essentials only. All for a so call illness that for the most part people are able to fight off.


There is no end to this even with the Vaccines coming in.



And now Who are being given the power to continue this until they and their sponsors see fit to declare it over.


I think your the one inventing your own reality. Have you gone a step further by locking yourself in a closet or something?

People are not under "house arrest", it's a global pandemic not a "so-called illness", there is an end to it, there's no "sponsors" of this. Your personal opinion is pretty bizarre to say the least.

Dohnjoe

pearcider wrote: »

100%. The worst thing is this world wide communist system is inevitable because they have studiously worked toward this goal over many years by building state control of everything and every one and by undermining the function of free market capitalism (with their endless bail outs for insiders, high taxes, “social” programs which do more harm than good and promotion of all manner of corporate cartels all of which destroy the free movement of capital). Read the road to serfdom by the great economist Hayek and witness his fears made manifest today.

What many don’t realise is that Marx and his fellow nihilists originally predicted that capitalism must be destroyed before socialism could ascend (or descend). Therefore the big bad Soviet Union and the subsequent Cold War with them was just another head fake in history. The world wide communist system could never have arisen in the 20th century while capitalism was at its zenith. Now however it’s just around the corner. Witness the hollowing out of the western industrial base in a few short years, the build up of communist China and the ever growing dependence of our people on government welfare. Not to mention the increasing indent ness of our societies in general such that even a moderate rise in interest rates by the central bank controllers will destroy the entire financial system of the world.

You just claimed we were all headed to a Fascist super-state, now it's a Communist one..

Well which is it?

pearcider

Dohnjoe wrote: »

You just claimed we were all headed to a Fascist super-state, now it's a Communist one..

Well which is it?

What’s the difference between Stalin and Hitler. Both examples of socialism. Stalin killed more Russians though.

King Mob

NaFirinne wrote: »

The reality is
...
All for a so call illness that for the most part people are able to fight off.

The reality is that covid has killed 2.7 million people.
You can keep pretending otherwise, but it's just making you and your friends look ridiculous.

NaFirinne wrote: »

I think your the one inventing your own reality. Have you gone a step further by locking yourself in a closet or something?

Because I don't believe there's a secret global conspiracy involving every government and company to fake a pandemic to install a nazi-commie government at the behest of a satanist cult who plan to bring about the end times?

PintOfView

brianhere wrote: »

Surely you can see are moving into a Communist style society? You have the total destruction of the private sector - outside of a few favoured multinationals - and its replacement by universal state wages, on the classic Communist model. You have totally controlled media pumping out constant state messages entirely the way it was done in any Communist country. You have the slandering of dissidents i.e. they are right wing fascists (that is explicit Communist terminology) or psychiatrically disturbed, 'bonkers' or the new term for that 'conspiracy theorists'. You have the complete destruction of the Churches, obviously straight out of a Communist playbook, etc etc.

If the government and the EU, etc., just started imposing all these restrictions on us last year, without any apparent reason, then you would have a case.

However, you seem to be ignoring the elephant in the room?
What do you expect the government to do when we have a virus on the loose that is deadly to a small percentage of people?

Do you think we should just sacrifice those who would die if they caught the virus, and let our health service get overwhelmed?

As regards slandering the dissidents, do you expect reasonable people who think you are totally mislead to just agree with you?
You seem to be completely ignoring reality!

PintOfView

NaFirinne wrote: »

2% of people that have contracted covid have died in Ireland.


This is not a reason to loose our democracy that was hard fought for.

What kind of person are you that thinks that we can just sacrifice 2% of our population?
That would be 100,000 people!
Just let them die, is that what you think?

The ironic thing is that you possibly call yourself a Christian?
If so, you would be such a contradiction, and far from any type of real Christian I would recognise!

PintOfView

pearcider wrote: »

100%. The worst thing is this world wide communist system is inevitable because they have studiously worked toward this goal over many years by building state control of everything and every one and by undermining the function of free market capitalism (with their endless bail outs for insiders, high taxes, “social” programs which do more harm than good and promotion of all manner of corporate cartels all of which destroy the free movement of capital). Read the road to serfdom by the great economist Hayek and witness his fears made manifest today.

What many don’t realise is that Marx and his fellow nihilists originally predicted that capitalism must be destroyed before socialism could ascend (or descend). Therefore the big bad Soviet Union and the subsequent Cold War with them was just another head fake in history. The world wide communist system could never have arisen in the 20th century while capitalism was at its zenith. Now however it’s just around the corner. Witness the hollowing out of the western industrial base in a few short years, the build up of communist China and the ever growing dependence of our people on government welfare. Not to mention the increasing indebtness of our societies in general such that even a moderate rise in interest rates by the central bank controllers will destroy the entire financial system of the world. The International Mafia Funds notes whimsically last year “A review of 89 default episodes from 1827 to 2003 shows the typical experience to be a sharp rise in borrowing, both external and domestic, in the run-up to default (Reinhart and Rogoff 2009). Ideally this time will be different, but the record is not encouraging.”

Remember the controllers always telegraph their actions well in advance. They openly rule the world not secretly. Read the Anglo American Establishment by Carroll Quigley. These creeps are quite open about their desire to control everyone and every thing. Prepare for inflation is what they have said.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/prepare-for-rise-in-interest-rates-and-price-inflation-varadkar-warns-1.4514144

Are you sure you're not still fighting the cold war, long after it finished?
(bit like the Japanese soldiers that were still 'fighting' in the jungle long after ww2 ended)

I'm not saying the world is perfect, or the financial system is perfect, etc., but your diagnosis seems way wide of the mark!
What do you think is the solution to all these problems?

pearcider

PintOfView wrote: »

If the government and the EU, etc., just started imposing all these restrictions on us last year, without any apparent reason, then you would have a case.

However, you seem to be ignoring the elephant in the room?
What do you expect the government to do when we have a virus on the loose that is deadly to a small percentage of people?

Do you think we should just sacrifice those who would die if they caught the virus, and let our health service get overwhelmed?

As regards slandering the dissidents, do you expect reasonable people who think you are totally mislead to just agree with you?
You seem to be completely ignoring reality!

You’re the one ignoring reality. Lockdowns don’t work and the evidence is quite clear on that now. They do more harm than good. They are utterly stupid when you have thousands of people arriving from endemic countries every week. The virus should’ve been let loose among the population and it would’ve burned out by now. The elderly should’ve been protected they weren’t in fact they emptied the hospitals and sent infected patients into the nursing homes to kill thousands.

Now we’ve dragged out the illness, applied selective pressure to the original virus encouraging it to mutate into more lethal variants any one which could actually turn into an apocalyptic one that kills large numbers of young people.

PintOfView

pearcider wrote: »

You’re the one ignoring reality. Lockdowns don’t work and the evidence is quite clear on that now. They do more harm than good. They are utterly stupid when you have thousands of people arriving from endemic countries every week. The virus should’ve been let loose among the population and it would’ve burned out by now. The elderly should’ve been protected they weren’t in fact they emptied the hospitals and sent infected patients into the nursing homes to kill thousands.

Now we’ve dragged out the illness, applied selective pressure to the original virus encouraging it to mutate into more lethal variants any one which could actually turn into an apocalyptic one that kills large numbers of young people.

What you're saying doesn't make sense.

Why do you think the cases have come down since the end of December.
It was clearly the lockdown, was it not?
What is your evidence that lockdowns don't work?

You say the virus should have been let loose and it would burn itself out!
What makes you think it would burn itself out, and with how many deaths?

As regards mutations, aren't you contradicting yourself?
The more people who get the virus the more mutations that occur,
so if we let everyone get it then we get more mutations
(which you seem to recognise might be a problem)!

Dohnjoe

Once again this common trend: "Let them die, so what" coupled with extreme world views coupled no notion of what would happen to our national health system if we let the virus run rampant.

King Mob

pearcider wrote: »

Now we’ve dragged out the illness, applied selective pressure to the original virus encouraging it to mutate into more lethal variants any one which could actually turn into an apocalyptic one that kills large numbers of young people.

What selective pressure did they apply? How does this produce a more lethal virus?
When will we see this new more deadly virus?
What is their purpose in doing this?

I suspect that you have no answers to these questions because your claim is just empty, vague waffle you just threw out because it sounded technical and scary to you.

brianhere

pearcider
"Lockdowns don’t work and the evidence is quite clear on that now."

Yes absolutely, like look at it this way, take nursing homes as an example and other similar institutions, like psychiatric hospitals:

They were have been completely locked down for over a full year now, basically all those institutions have overnight become prisons without visiting rights. They also have gone completely overboard for a full year now on hand sanitizing, masks and social distancing in general (that means in those places that possibly, after solicitor's letters etc, you might just be let visit your family member through a plane glass window). What do you know is the net effect? We now have the rate of Covid death there in many of these places ballooning, as seen on rip.ie etc (and strangely after they received the vaccine too).

Quite simply none of the above measures made a blind bit of positive difference, so maybe people ought to learn from that and stop doing these things.

Fighting Tao

brianhere wrote: »

pearcider
"Lockdowns don’t work and the evidence is quite clear on that now."

Yes absolutely, like look at it this way, take nursing homes as an example and other similar institutions, like psychiatric hospitals:

They were have been completely locked down for over a full year now, basically all those institutions have overnight become prisons without visiting rights. They also have gone completely overboard for a full year now on hand sanitizing, masks and social distancing in general (that means in those places that possibly, after solicitor's letters etc, you might just be let visit your family member through a plane glass window). What do you know is the net effect? We now have the rate of Covid death there in many of these places ballooning, as seen on rip.ie etc (and strangely after they received the vaccine too).

Quite simply none of the above measures made a blind bit of positive difference, so maybe people ought to learn from that and stop doing these things.

I wonder how my mother has regularly visited her uncle in a nursing home for months please stop the blatant lies.

Dohnjoe

brianhere wrote: »

pearcider
"Lockdowns don’t work and the evidence is quite clear on that now."

Yes absolutely, like look at it this way, take nursing homes as an example and other similar institutions, like psychiatric hospitals:

They were have been completely locked down for over a full year now, basically all those institutions have overnight become prisons without visiting rights. They also have gone completely overboard for a full year now on hand sanitizing, masks and social distancing in general (that means in those places that possibly, after solicitor's letters etc, you might just be let visit your family member through a plane glass window). What do you know is the net effect? We now have the rate of Covid death there in many of these places ballooning, as seen on rip.ie etc (and strangely after they received the vaccine too).

Quite simply none of the above measures made a blind bit of positive difference, so maybe people ought to learn from that and stop doing these things.

Again this bizarre, selective "concern" for certain people, yet absolutely no concern for those dying of Covid, suffering from it. In fact, apparently they can all just die, let it "burn itself out". Not a glimmer of understanding of the threat it poses to collapsing national health systems.

PintOfView

brianhere wrote: »

pearcider
"Lockdowns don’t work and the evidence is quite clear on that now."

Yes absolutely, like look at it this way, take nursing homes as an example and other similar institutions, like psychiatric hospitals:

They were have been completely locked down for over a full year now, basically all those institutions have overnight become prisons without visiting rights. They also have gone completely overboard for a full year now on hand sanitizing, masks and social distancing in general (that means in those places that possibly, after solicitor's letters etc, you might just be let visit your family member through a plane glass window). What do you know is the net effect? We now have the rate of Covid death there in many of these places ballooning, as seen on rip.ie etc (and strangely after they received the vaccine too).

Quite simply none of the above measures made a blind bit of positive difference, so maybe people ought to learn from that and stop doing these things.

If the evidence is so clear, that lockdowns don't work, why can't you just point to it, or explain what the evidence is?

I would have thought that all reasonable people would seek the truth, and the actual reality of things.
To get to the truth we have to assess information and facts, and check information that might seem suspect.

So to assess if lockdowns work you need to look at what happens.
Last April the covid numbers peaked.
We locked down, and the numbers came down.

In December the covid numbers peaked again.
We locked down, and the numbers came down again.

Do you think this was just coincidence?
Do you believe in assessing situations like this using numbers?
Have you got any numbers to help us understand and believe your side of the story?

If you haven't got any evidence for what you propose, how can you blame people for thinking that you are mistaken and mislead, and not really to be taken seriously?

arccosh

it's a conspiracy....

Timberrrrrrrr

arccosh wrote: »

it's a conspiracy....

What is?

arccosh

it, obviously

Timberrrrrrrr

arccosh wrote: »

it, obviously

:rolleyes:

JJayoo

brianhere wrote: »

pearcider
"Lockdowns don’t work and the evidence is quite clear on that now."

Yes absolutely, like look at it this way, take nursing homes as an example and other similar institutions, like psychiatric hospitals:

They were have been completely locked down for over a full year now, basically all those institutions have overnight become prisons without visiting rights. They also have gone completely overboard for a full year now on hand sanitizing, masks and social distancing in general (that means in those places that possibly, after solicitor's letters etc, you might just be let visit your family member through a plane glass window). What do you know is the net effect? We now have the rate of Covid death there in many of these places ballooning, as seen on rip.ie etc (and strangely after they received the vaccine too).

Quite simply none of the above measures made a blind bit of positive difference, so maybe people ought to learn from that and stop doing these things.

Troll or low IQ?

buzzerxx

Fighting Tao wrote: »

I wonder how my mother has regularly visited her uncle in a nursing home for months please stop the blatant lies.

https://www.facebook.com/Newsforallireland/videos/725883741393928

This lady fought so hard for the last couple of months to see her dad in a nursing home. On her first visit is being interrupted by guards with no valid cause for interruption which you will see in the second video. This by no means is a anti garda/ anti nurses post as loads of garda and nurses are supporting her.
-I have had excellent support from Tralee Garda Station along with nurses from this facility which I have the uppermost respect for. These 4 people do not represent all Garda. The 4 garda and the management team of this HSE facility are now being investigated. All nursing home access has been revised by the HSE since this incident.

Fighting Tao

buzzerxx wrote: »

https://www.facebook.com/Newsforallireland/videos/725883741393928

This lady fought so hard for the last couple of months to see her dad in a nursing home. On her first visit is being interrupted by guards with no valid cause for interruption which you will see in the second video. This by no means is a anti garda/ anti nurses post as loads of garda and nurses are supporting her.
-I have had excellent support from Tralee Garda Station along with nurses from this facility which I have the uppermost respect for. These 4 people do not represent all Garda. The 4 garda and the management team of this HSE facility are now being investigated. All nursing home access has been revised by the HSE since this incident.

That’s a direct cut and paste, and a link dump. Os it you, if not you have your own opinion?

A normal individual that hasn’t being involved in tension don’t record their interaction with the guards. Also she said she was previously in contact with their superior. So the whole thing is a little bit suspicious and maybe there is a backstory that is not being told.

Another thing to bear in mind is that it backs up what I said. People are able to see relatives in nursing homes, and also it provides evidence that the restrictions were not permanent as per the thread title.

buzzerxx

Fighting Tao wrote: »

That’s a direct cut and paste, and a link dump. Os it you, if not you have your own opinion?

A normal individual that hasn’t being involved in tension don’t record their interaction with the guards. Also she said she was previously in contact with their superior. So the whole thing is a little bit suspicious and maybe there is a backstory that is not being told.

Another thing to bear in mind is that it backs up what I said. People are able to see relatives in nursing homes, and also it provides evidence that the restrictions were not permanent as per the thread title.

The link is relative to the discussion but i agree i should have gave my own opinion also so here it is. The woman was allowed to see her dying father only after extensive legal wrangling which took a long time. What if the man died during this unneccessary bull****?
also after all the stress she endured she is allowed only 1 hour with him? what is the reasoning behind that?
You mention a normal individual? is she not normal because she questions rules and regulations?

Fighting Tao

buzzerxx wrote: »

The link is relative to the discussion but i agree i should have gave my own opinion also so here it is. The woman was allowed to see her dying father only after extensive legal wrangling which took a long time. What if the man died during this unneccessary bull****? also after all the stress she endured she is allowed only 1 hour with him? what is the reasoning behind that?

The guards stated that they were called to attend the nursing home. Something happened before the camera starts filming. She was allowed to see her father as we can see he is sitting outside with her. She was expecting them.

King Mob

buzzerxx wrote: »

The link is relative to the discussion but i agree i should have gave my own opinion also so here it is. The woman was allowed to see her dying father only after extensive legal wrangling which took a long time. What if the man died during this unneccessary bull****?
also after all the stress she endured she is allowed only 1 hour with him? what is the reasoning behind that?
You mention a normal individual? is she not normal because she questions rules and regulations?

As we've seen on this thread, there's a large contingent of conspiracy mongers out there who have been more than willing to misrepresent videos and pictures to distort facts to suit their narrative.
For example, they would film empty parts of a hospital while ignoring the context and the busy parts of the hospital to claim that the hospitals were empty.

So how do you know that all of the facts are being presented accurately in the video?
How do you know that there isn't other facts or information left out of that video by it's author, or the people reposting it to you?

What relevance to the thread does it have?
Are you claiming that people aren't able to visit their relatives? Is this going to be permanent? What is the benefit to the government for doing this?

buzzerxx

As we've seen on this thread, there's a large contingent of conspiracy mongers out there who have been more than willing to misrepresent videos and pictures to distort facts to suit their narrative.

Why not call them what they are traditionally called, conspiracy theorists? and why are you surprised to see many theorists here in a forum NAMED conspiracy theories? and i agree some videos and pictures are distorted facts to suit their narrative but i also believe Governments do the same.

buzzerxx

So how do you know that all of the facts are being presented accurately in the video?
How do you know that there isn't other facts or information left out of that video by it's author, or the people reposting it to you?

I dont know ,thats why i posted it for debate.

What relevance to the thread does it have?
Are you claiming that people aren't able to visit their relatives? Is this going to be permanent? What is the benefit to the government for doing this?

Why dont you ask this fella that question first? I responded to @Fighting Tao , thats the relevance

Fighting Tao wrote: »

I wonder how my mother has regularly visited her uncle in a nursing home for months please stop the blatant lies.

Fighting Tao

buzzerxx wrote: »

I responded to @Fighting Tao thats the relevance

It served a good purpose by backing up what I said. Visits are allowed.

pearcider

PintOfView wrote: »

What you're saying doesn't make sense.

Why do you think the cases have come down since the end of December.
It was clearly the lockdown, was it not?
What is your evidence that lockdowns don't work?

You say the virus should have been let loose and it would burn itself out!
What makes you think it would burn itself out, and with how many deaths?

As regards mutations, aren't you contradicting yourself?
The more people who get the virus the more mutations that occur,
so if we let everyone get it then we get more mutations
(which you seem to recognise might be a problem)!

Cases came down because the virus is clearly seasonal disappearing in the winter in the northern hemisphere and moving to the Southern Hemisphere. Lockdowns don’t work because they destroy jobs, mental health and risk fracturing civil society for no net gain.

They also encourage more virulent strains to emerge since they apply selection pressure on the virus. Furthermore places that have not locked down such as Japan and Sweden have no discernible difference in mortality or case numbers. Conversely countries with the most extreme lockdowns like Italy and Spain have performed poorly. The virus spreads in family homes and hospitals. Lockdowns are simply idiotic making huge sacrifices for no benefit in the long run.

This whole charade is just another example of the incredibly poor calibre of politicians we have now in the world. Interfering busy bodies who are convinced that whatever they do they must do something. Anything! Just like the world economy must be bailed out, the virus must be eliminated. Never mind that they are making things orders of magnitude worse. It’s pure narcissism and nothing more. We cannot eliminate a virus without herd immunity end of story. You may as well try and stop the tide coming in. It never crosses the dull intellects of these socialist fools that their intervention is doing more harm than good. But that’s narcissism for ya.

Fighting Tao

pearcider wrote: »

Cases came down because the virus is clearly seasonal disappearing in the winter in the northern hemisphere and moving to the Southern Hemisphere. Lockdowns don’t work because they destroy jobs, mental health and risk fracturing civil society for no net gain.

They also encourage more virulent strains to emerge since they apply selection pressure on the virus. Furthermore places that have not locked down such as Japan and Sweden have no discernible difference in mortality or case numbers. Conversely countries with the most extreme lockdowns like Italy and Spain have performed poorly. The virus spreads in family homes and hospitals. Lockdowns are simply idiotic making huge sacrifices for no benefit in the long run.

This whole charade is just another example of the incredibly poor calibre of politicians we have now in the world. Interfering busy bodies who are convinced that whatever they do they must do something. Anything! Just like the world economy must be bailed out, the virus must be eliminated. Never mind that they are making things orders of magnitude worse. It’s pure narcissism and nothing more. We cannot eliminate a virus without herd immunity end of story. You may as well try and stop the tide coming in. It never crosses the dull intellects of these socialist fools that their intervention is doing more harm than good. But that’s narcissism for ya.

How does that explain South American countries such as Brazil?