All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

Dohnjoe

pearcider wrote: »

Your pro lockdown position is simply untenable.

Almost every country in the world has independently decided on lockdown style measures to deal with Covid, each decision made by experts in those countries, you are the one with the position deemed untenable by virtually every country.

Simple scenario, you run a small country, Covid is spreading, experts are warning that in 3 or 4 weeks the health system will be completely overrun. What do you do?

King Mob

Page 199. Still no explanation of what measures will be permanent and why.

pearcider

PintOfView wrote: »

From that page ...
"University of Illinois researchers, including Gustavo Caetano-Anolles, say Covid-19 is likely to become seasonal after the initial pandemic is brought under control"

It doesn't say it's seasonal now, it says it is likely to become seasonal after the pandemic is brought under control!

It's not rocket science. Respiratory viruses will transmit more easily to other people when they are in unventilated rooms together, and that happens more in winter, and as Covid falls into the same category it's likely to be more of a threat in the winter.

However that didn't stop a peak happening in the US last August, right in the middle of their summer, or in Brazil today, at the end of their summer.
One reason is likely to be because relatively few in the population have had it, so there are plenty of people to pick it up.
We would need a degree of herd immunity, or to have a lot of the population vaccinated, in order for the virus to be starved out of new people to infect, so it would then rely on the winter to survive.

What do you think? Does that make sense?

Peak in USA was January 11th. Peak in U.K. was 31 December. Peak in Ireland was January 8th. It’s seasonal. You’re wrong. Deal with it.

PintOfView

harrylittle wrote: »

Yeah ... fake PCR tests ... pcr cases rising ... number of deaths flatlining .. proof pcr test fake

Once you start believing everything is fake, how do you decide what is not fake?
How do you know that the web sites you get your info from are not fake?

I've seem some of the web sites that carry those stories, and the stories, and journalism, don't stand up to scrutiny in most cases (possibly vast majority but I don't have time to check all).

Don't you realise that unscrupulous entrepreneurs are running sites with these fabricated stories and making money from them, with more visitors = more money!
They are feeding stories to people who are predisposed to believe them, people who don't do much checking, apart from other sites in that same eco system.

I guess in ways you are not too different to people who follow what you call main stream media, where there are different slants put out by different channels.
The trick is to not swallow a story the first time you come across it, but cross check it a bit, and see what other people are also saying, and try and gauge where the truth lies!

Dohnjoe

pearcider wrote: »

Peak in USA was January 11th. Peak in U.K. was 31 December. Peak in Ireland was January 8th. It’s seasonal. You’re wrong. Deal with it.

"My unsourced opinion is fact, deal with it"

It's a highly infectious disease that spreads virulently regardless of season. Over time, when populations are vaccinated, and we have built up resistances, and if it lingers, then it may become seasonal (like seasonal flu).

PintOfView

pearcider wrote: »

Peak in USA was January 11th. Peak in U.K. was 31 December. Peak in Ireland was January 8th. It’s seasonal. You’re wrong. Deal with it.

Do you deny there was also a peak in the US last August?
Do you deny Brazil (southern hemisphere) has a large peak at the moment, after one in August during their winter?

Ireland had a peak in April last, why was that?

Aren't you the one that is refusing to deal with it?
Denying reality is one way to deal with it I suppose!

Dohnjoe

PintOfView wrote: »

Do you deny there was also a peak in the US last August?
Do you deny Brazil (southern hemisphere) has a large peak at the moment, after one in August during their winter?

Ireland had a peak in April last, why was that?

Aren't you the one that is refusing to deal with it?
Denying reality is one way to deal with it I suppose!

"Because those other peaks contradict my view, ergo I reject them and choose only peaks that occur in winter. Therefore it's seasonal!"

- How to cherry-pick info to arrive at a predetermined outcome 101.

pearcider

PintOfView wrote: »

Do you deny there was also a peak in the US last August?
Do you deny Brazil (southern hemisphere) has a large peak at the moment, after one in August during their winter?

Ireland had a peak in April last, why was that?

Aren't you the one that is refusing to deal with it?
Denying reality is one way to deal with it I suppose!

Those peaks were trivial compared to the peaks during the winter a full order of magnitude less. The evidence is against you not me. But hey the truth hurts. Observe the cases fall to nothing this summer. Nothing to do with lockdown. Just the virus behaving like every other respiratory virus. You keep swallowing the globalist propaganda though.

King Mob

pearcider wrote: »

The evidence is against you not me.

What evidence?
You've been asked repeatedly to provide it, but you keep ignoring those requests and declaring that we're just tools of the giant conspiracy.

If the evidence is with you, why do you act like it doesn't?

PintOfView

pearcider wrote: »

Those peaks were trivial compared to the peaks during the winter a full order of magnitude less. The evidence is against you not me. But hey the truth hurts. Observe the cases fall to nothing this summer. Nothing to do with lockdown. Just the virus behaving like every other respiratory virus. You keep swallowing the globalist propaganda though.

See the graph I attached here (deaths from all causes in US for last 4 years)
The peak last Aug/Sep is higher than the winter peaks of Jan 2020, Jan 2019, and 2017, and you say that was trivial!

See the peak last April, was that trivial too?
The orange line is the limit of normal deaths. See how much above it the US has been since last March?

And this is with social distancing, masks, and lockdowns (admittedly not as strict as ourselves in parts of the US)
How does that prove that Covid is "just a seasonal virus"

Unlike yourself, I'm not swallowing any propaganda, I'm simply using my own eyes to look at the facts, and I'm not depending on some web site to interpret them for me!!
I would challenge you to use your own eyes and intelligence to look at the facts!

The Nal

harrylittle wrote: »

Yeah ... fake PCR tests ... pcr cases rising ... number of deaths flatlining .. proof pcr test fake

Look at the deaths in the last 2 weeks as a result of the cases.

"Flatlining".



Also their hospitals are full.

Anyway, 199 pages, no conspiracy and no proof that anything will be permanent.

Dohnjoe

The Nal wrote: »

Anyway, 199 pages, no conspiracy and no proof that anything will be permanent.

Certain things like working from home will become much more common, therefore that's a permanent change, therefore conspiracy confirmed, therefore conspiracy theorists proven correct again, kthxbye deal with it

pearcider

PintOfView wrote: »

See the graph I attached here (deaths from all causes in US for last 4 years)
The peak last Aug/Sep is higher than the winter peaks of Jan 2020, Jan 2019, and 2017, and you say that was trivial!

See the peak last April, was that trivial too?
The orange line is the limit of normal deaths. See how much above it the US has been since last March?

And this is with social distancing, masks, and lockdowns (admittedly not as strict as ourselves in parts of the US)
How does that prove that Covid is "just a seasonal virus"

Unlike yourself, I'm not swallowing any propaganda, I'm simply using my own eyes to look at the facts, and I'm not depending on some web site to interpret them for me!!
I would challenge you to use your own eyes and intelligence to look at the facts!

Sorry you’re wrong the case peak in the northern hemisphere was December 2020-January 2021. Not sure where you’re getting April from. Just on the US data April was about 25k cases compared to 150k in winter. In either case, the data shows lockdowns don’t work ie cases begin to decline before lockdown is implanted.

In fact many studies such as the lancet one indicated a negative correlation ie the stricter the lockdown the worse the outcomes.

Also you conveniently ignore the negative effects of lockdown.. Increases in domestic abuse, suicide, heart attacks, less cancer diagnosis all a feature of lockdown issued by “politicians” (who are nothing more than prostitutes to big business) and their chosen puppets in academia (lockdown has no effect on their plump salaries of course) who now rule by decree without legislative or democratic due process. Not to mention the economic toll which will be measured in trillions and decades of joblessness. But sure ignore all that because lockdown is great...even though it doesn’t work. It’s the philosophy of a boot licker.

That’s leaving aside the human rights aspect which the government will now take joy in further eroding since we are rules by a mixture of nurse ratchet style busy bodies and narcissistic control freaks.

It’s like the 9/11 attacks have any of the extraordinary security procedures in the airports ever been rolled back? Has any government ever in history given up power it has granted to itself?

No the onus is on you globalist boot lickers to show that the government will give up its powers. Not on your nelly.

Luckily it appears the love of freedom and critical thinking is still alive in this country which is why one can see people increasingly ignoring these dictats from the bizarre freak show in both the oireachtais and Montrose house. I’d say that really grinds a boot kickers gears. Seeing family and friends out meeting and trying to enjoy life despite this bs the technocrats have foisted upon us. I’d say you’re fuming people are no longer cowering in fear from a virus that for the under 50s kills 1 person in every 50 thousand it infects. By comparison the chance of dying in an accident in your home is 1 in 15,000.

King Mob

pearcider wrote: »

Sorry you’re wrong the case peak in the northern hemisphere was December 2020-January 2021. Not sure where you’re getting April from. Just on the US data April was about 25k cases compared to 150k in winter. In either case, the data shows lockdowns don’t work ie cases begin to decline before lockdown is implanted.

In fact many studies such as the lancet one indicated a negative correlation ie the stricter the lockdown the worse the outcomes.

Yet you don't seem to be able to produce this evidence and data.
This is most likely because it doesn't exist.
You conspiracy theorists have been lying non-stop throughout this thread.

Provide your sources.

pearcider wrote: »

No the onus is on you globalist boot lickers

Lol :rolleyes:

pearcider wrote: »

to show that the government will give up its powers. Not on your nelly.

Ok. So you believe this. Cool.

What specific measures are going to be permanent and why?

Why has it taken nearly 200 pages for you to answer this very simple question?

PintOfView

pearcider wrote: »

Sorry you’re wrong the case peak in the northern hemisphere was December 2020-January 2021. Not sure where you’re getting April from.

I was talking about last winter. January is usually the Irish peak, but last year April 2020 was the peak, higher than Jan 2020. Do you agree?

And what about the US numbers, have you any comment on those, or would those be inconvenient to your theory?

pearcider wrote: »

In fact many studies such as the lancet one indicated a negative correlation ie the stricter the lockdown the worse the outcomes.

Ok, show me the study!

pearcider wrote: »

Also you conveniently ignore the negative effects of lockdown.. Increases in domestic abuse, suicide, heart attacks, less cancer diagnosis all appear to be a feature of lockdown issued by politicians who now rule by decree without any legislative or democratic due process. Not to mention the economic toll which will be measured in trillions and decades of joblessness. But sure ignore all that because lockdown is great...even though it doesn’t work. It’s the philosophy of a boot licker.

I agree there are negative effects of lockdown, perhaps not as severe as you are portraying.
However there appear to be much greater negative effects of not locking down (that's the part you are ignoring!)

pearcider wrote: »

That’s leaving aside the human rights aspect which the government will now take joy in further eroding since we are rules by a mixture of nurse ratchet style busy bodies and narcissistic control freaks.

It’s like the 9/11 attacks have any of the extraordinary security procedures in the airports ever been rolled back? Has any government ever in history given up power it has granted to itself?

No the onus is on you globalist boot lickers to show that the government will give up its powers. Not on your nelly.

Not much to say to that.
If you can't see the need for security procedures in airports, after 9/11 and various other incidents before that, I rest my case.
(how many plane highjacks have there been since 9/11?)

Looking at reality, and the facts, and drawing the obvious conclusions hardly qualifies one as a globalist book licker!
And what powers do you think the government won't give up?

Dohnjoe

Just when I thought this thread couldn't get any more silly, lockdown measures, aka people staying apart more, apparently has no effect on a virus that is airborne

Yet by some amazing coincidence, another infectious illness, flu, has rocketed down as a side effect of those same measures

Dohnjoe

pearcider wrote: »

It’s like the 9/11 attacks have any of the extraordinary security procedures in the airports ever been rolled back?

No, because the threat of terrorism using planes is still there.

brianhere

Dohnjoe
"No, because the threat of terrorism using planes is still there."

Exactly, so once the state makes out a certain threat then if the threat remains all their control measures remain.

By the same token there has always been and will always be infectious diseases (some a lot more concerning than this mild Covid actually), and variants of existing infectious diseases, so if you have got away with introducing masks, social distancing and lockdowns etc once as a supposed response then of course, by the same logic, you will have to keep them going permanently.

Which is what they obviously are doing...

Dohnjoe

brianhere wrote: »

Dohnjoe
"No, because the threat of terrorism using planes is still there."

Exactly, so once the state makes out a certain threat then if the threat remains all their control measures remain.

It's to do with jihadists taking over planes and crashing them into buildings or people like Richard Reid or Umar Abdulmutallab trying to blow themselves up on board. That's why we have such stringent security checks.

Likewise, there's a global pandemic, more serious than anything we've had since the 60's, as such we are using measures to reduce the spread of the virus.

You attack those measures, attack stats about the virus, attack the facts because it doesn't reconcile with your extreme view of the world. Like most conspiracy theorists.

runawaybishop

brianhere wrote: »

by the same logic

There is absolutely nothing logical about what you are saying. Nothing. Mask requirements and social distancing requirements are already being lifted in some places.

runawaybishop

pearcider wrote: »

It’s like the 9/11 attacks have any of the extraordinary security procedures in the airports ever been rolled back?

Yes. If you spent more time actually looking properly instead of idolising some grifter you'd be aware of this.


European Union
On 10 October 2006 a European Union Regulation placed restrictions on carrying liquid materials in hand luggage across the EU.[37]

This restriction was eased on 2 November 2014 with new RapidScan liquid explosive detectors.[38]

United Kingdom

On 14 August 2006, an announcement was made that the restrictions on hand baggage for flights originating in the UK would shortly be liberalised to permit carriage of one small (45 cm × 35 cm × 16 cm) piece of hand baggage per person. Whilst electronics, books, and other dry items were again permitted on flights leaving the UK, all liquids above 100ml remained banned in hand luggage.[4]

On 2 November 2014, liquid restriction rules were eased

United States
As of 26 September 2006, the Transportation Security Administration adjusted the ban on liquids, aerosols and gels.

PintOfView

brianhere wrote: »

"No, because the threat of terrorism using planes is still there."

Exactly, so once the state makes out a certain threat then if the threat remains all their control measures remain.

If the threat remains what's wrong with control measures?
What would you do if you were in charge, remove all security now, because no attacks in the last 20 years?
If you did that, how long do you think it would be before someone took advantage?

I don't know what the obsession with airport security is? I wonder if you are getting this from US web sites?
Security in Europe was tight long before 9/11, particularly in the UK due to the troubles, etc.

Security used to be lax in the US, where airports were a bit like bus stations
After 9/11, the enhanced security was a much bigger change for US air passengers.
Some Americans might think security is unnecessary and want to go back to the previous regime, is that where you're getting it from?

brianhere wrote: »

By the same token there has always been and will always be infectious diseases (some a lot more concerning than this mild Covid actually), and variants of existing infectious diseases

What infectious diseases were a lot more concerning than covid, and comparable?

brianhere wrote: »

so if you have got away with introducing masks, social distancing and lockdowns etc once as a supposed response then of course, by the same logic, you will have to keep them going permanently.

Which is what they obviously are doing...

How does it follow that if we introduce inconvenient measures to reduce transmission, that we will continue these once vaccination has been substantially completed?

King Mob

brianhere wrote: »

so if you have got away with introducing masks, social distancing and lockdowns etc once as a supposed response then of course, by the same logic, you will have to keep them going permanently.

Which is what they obviously are doing...

Ok. So you're claiming that these things are going to be permanent.

Why?
How does it benefit the shadowy cabal behind all of this?

Weren't you guys telling us that this is going to destroy the economy and cause untold pain and death?

pearcider

PintOfView wrote: »

I was talking about last winter. January is usually the Irish peak, but last year April 2020 was the peak, higher than Jan 2020. Do you agree?

And what about the US numbers, have you any comment on those, or would those be inconvenient to your theory?




Ok, show me the study!



I agree there are negative effects of lockdown, perhaps not as severe as you are portraying.
However there appear to be much greater negative effects of not locking down (that's the part you are ignoring!)



Not much to say to that.
If you can't see the need for security procedures in airports, after 9/11 and various other incidents before that, I rest my case.
(how many plane highjacks have there been since 9/11?)

Looking at reality, and the facts, and drawing the obvious conclusions hardly qualifies one as a globalist book licker!
And what powers do you think the government won't give up?

The virus hadn’t arrived in winter 2019/20. The peak in April was way smaller than the peak in winter 2020/21. The US figures match the theory. They peaked in their winter 20/21. They didn’t peak in august. Not my theory by the way. All viruses like this are seasonal. Lancet study is online just type it in.

My point about the airline security is that the government will never give up one iota of their new powers. Furthermore the public have been conditioned now to accept lockdowns (psy op) as something normal and the government know they can run it now. The next lockdown in response to the next crisis (real or fabricated) will be more efficient. Expect this draconian tool to be used a lot more in the years ahead. Especially as the world economy increasingly goes off the rails and China begins to assert itself. You can be sure aspects of communist China such as social credit scores and dominance of the big multi nationals will become increasingly common in the western world too.

Soon you will be getting your covid variant jab every year and no booster jab; no travel, no going to the cinema and no interacting in public at all.

“The government has discovered the power of public fear to let it get its way. It will not forget. Aristotle argued in his Politics that democracy was an inherently defective and unstable form of government. It was, he thought, too easily subverted by demagogues seeking to obtain or keep power by appeals to public emotion and fear. What has saved us from this fate in the two centuries that democracy has subsisted in this country is a tradition of responsible government, based not just on law but on convention, deliberation and restraint, and on the effective exercise of Parliamentary as opposed to executive sovereignty. But like all principles which depend on a shared political culture, this is a fragile tradition. It may now founder after two centuries in which it has served this country well. What will replace it is a nominal democracy, with a less deliberative and consensual style and an authoritarian reality which we will like a great deal less.”

From this article. I suggest you read it.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/-this-is-how-freedom-dies-the-folly-of-britain-s-coercive-covid-strategy

King Mob

pearcider wrote: »

The virus hadn’t arrived in winter 2019/20. The peak in April was way smaller than the peak in winter 2020/21. The US figures match the theory. They peaked in their winter 20/21. They didn’t peak in august. Not my theory by the way. All viruses like this are seasonal. Lancet study is online just type it in.

Provide the study then.

You keep avoiding this and this is usually a sign that you are lying.
You have been been lying constantly, so the chances are you're lying here too.

Why not just show us up and quote and link the study?

The only reason I can think that you're not doing this is because it doesn't say what you claim it says.

bb1234567

pearcider wrote: »

Peak in USA was January 11th. Peak in U.K. was 31 December. Peak in Ireland was January 8th. It’s seasonal. You’re wrong. Deal with it.

When I saw this comment, I assumed it would be a few weeks or even months old.Em, things changed a bit didn't they. COVID is resurging all around Europe, UK looks to be the only country to avoid it due to vaccinations. Are you not aware of this or what? Anyway, clearly not seasonal or at least in the way you believe it to be , so 'deal with it'

pearcider

https://fee.org/articles/3-studies-that-show-lockdowns-are-ineffective-at-slowing-covid-19/

There’s three studies. Brilliant quote at the end of the article by my favourite economist for good measure. I suggest all you globalist bootlickers read his book “the road to serfdom” written in the 40s and take a good hard look at our society today and the dark road we are on.

bb1234567

PintOfView wrote: »

Once you start believing everything is fake, how do you decide what is not fake?
How do you know that the web sites you get your info from are not fake?

I've seem some of the web sites that carry those stories, and the stories, and journalism, don't stand up to scrutiny in most cases (possibly vast majority but I don't have time to check all).

Don't you realise that unscrupulous entrepreneurs are running sites with these fabricated stories and making money from them, with more visitors = more money!
They are feeding stories to people who are predisposed to believe them, people who don't do much checking, apart from other sites in that same eco system.

I guess in ways you are not too different to people who follow what you call main stream media, where there are different slants put out by different channels.
The trick is to not swallow a story the first time you come across it, but cross check it a bit, and see what other people are also saying, and try and gauge where the truth lies!

I've always wondered where these guys draw the line too. Like they say all government data on COVID is falsified, exaggerated , whatever. Then in the same breath will draw on data on flu deaths statistics or whatever provided by the same government in an argument. Why do they believe the government was honest about how they compile information about other diseases? They'll say COVID is mild disease based on government estimates of mortality rates too,the average age/health profile of victims announced by authorities.. But how or why do they believe government mortality estimates if they don't even believe the government are correctly identifying COVID as cause of death in alleged COVID victims in the first place? They'll say the cases are false positive PCR, but then try to claim a rise in reported cases is a clear sign our lockdown or restrictions are useless at preventing outbreaks of COVID. Makes no sense and is contradiction on contradiction.

Just arbitrarily picking and choosing what is allowed to be believed or not, to suit their arguments and beliefs.

pearcider

bb1234567 wrote: »

When I saw this comment, I assumed it would be a few weeks or even months old.Em, things changed a bit didn't they. COVID is resurging all around Europe, UK looks to be the only country to avoid it due to vaccinations. Are you not aware of this or what? Anyway, clearly not seasonal or at least in the way you believe it to be , so 'deal with it'

Looks to me like the peak in every single EU country was the winter just gone. Not one country has come near the winter peak. For example in France they had 90k cases in November. So surely if it was “surging” in France it would be up near there? How many cases today then? Are we near the November peak?

Most importantly almost no cases anywhere in Europe during summer 2020. And you want to argue with me? Like who are you trying to fool here? It’s seasonal. See that’s the problem with people these days they just parrot what they heard on the news. Brainwashed and programmed by tv.

King Mob

pearcider wrote: »

https://fee.org/articles/3-studies-that-show-lockdowns-are-ineffective-at-slowing-covid-19/

But those aren't the studies you said you had.
Where's the studies that show that covid is "just a seasonal flu"?

Additionally, you're again linking to some site with a sketchy reputation.
Why?
Why not just link to the studies themselves?

Here are the studies themselves:
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(20)30208-X/fulltext
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpubh.2020.604339/full#SM6
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.11.20128520v1

However, none seem to actually say what you, and the sites you're swallowing from claim they say.

For example in the first study:

The government policy of full lockdowns (vs. partial or curfews only) was strongly associated with recovery rates (RR=2.47; 95%CI: 1.08–5.64). Similarly, the number of days to any border closure was associated with the number of cases per million (RR=1.04; 95%CI: 1.01–1.08). This suggests that full lockdowns and early border closures may lessen the peak of transmission, and thus prevent health system overcapacity, which would facilitate increased recovery rates.

The second:

The design of this study aimed to draw a global description of the Covid-19 mortality and its associations with several major parameters. It is out of scope to speculate on any cause-effect relation.

And the third:

The rapid spread of SARS-CoV-2 and its threat to health systems worldwide have led governments to take acute actions to enforce social distancing. Previous studies used complex epidemiological models to quantify the effect of lockdown policies on infection rates. However, these rely on prior assumptions or on official regulations. Here, we use country-specific reports of daily mobility from people cellular usage to model social distancing. Our data-driven model enabled the extraction of mobility characteristics which were crossed with observed mortality rates to show that: (1) the time at which social distancing was initiated is of utmost importance and explains 62% of the number of deaths, while the lockdown strictness or its duration are not as informative; (2) a delay of 7.49 days in initiating social distancing would double the number of deaths; and (3) the expected time from infection to fatality is 25.75 days and significantly varies among countries.

None of them say anything like "lockdowns are ineffective."

Now, where you reluctant to post these studies because you knew that they didn't support your claims, or because you only just googled them and never actually looked at them?

pearcider wrote: »

. I suggest all you globalist bootlickers .

Lol