EasyGo public chargers

graememk

liamog wrote: »

That's what they are reporting for the new units in the FB post.

The units will prob be end of life by the time chademo is gone. Well be at least 15 - 20 years - new leafs are still selling.

ELM327

JohnC. wrote: »

When Chad is all but gone, can the units EasyGO use easily have that side replaced with a second CCS?

Yes

graememk wrote: »

The units will prob be end of life by the time chademo is gone. Well be at least 15 - 20 years - new leafs are still selling.

New leafs are still selling, but of the current EVs on the road, there are more CCS cars than Chademo already, and all new EVs (except leaf) are CCS and outselling Chademo exponetially

Black_Knight

liamog wrote: »

Yeah that's the feedback I left on their FB post.
If installing 1 charger, then 1xCCS, 1xCHAdeMO and if installing 2, the 2nd should be dual CCS. I also said they shouldn't do load splitting like eCars, it should be first come first served, not 2nd to arrive slows down the first. If I'm plugged in and expecting my car to charge for 30 mins, it shouldn't turn to 1 hour because someone else turned up.

If no load splitting, what's the point in having dual CCS? I get your point about not having your charging speed curtailed, but if the unit can deliver 75kW, and you're using 70kW, it's a bit **** on the second car to only get 5kW on a DC fast charger. The unit may as well not be available. I like the idea of utilising as much power as the unit can pump out, but it needs to be usable/useful for all who use it.

If easy go end up saying "we can charge 2 cars at once" we'll be slating them because it's load sharing and a phoney dual car charger. If easy go only allow 1 car to use it at a time, we'll be complaining that they could be servicing 2 cars. No win situation for them.

AndyBoBandy

If 2 cars plug into the 75kW unit, car B should at least get 15-20kW out of it, otherwise what's the point!! You could be waiting 20+ minutes for car A to ramp down below 75kW before car B can start getting anything out of it!! In that case just make them single plug units..

Car A ramps down to 55kW when car B plugs in, and then as it tapers below 55kW, the excess goes to car B if it can still take it.

ELM327

How about the "tesla V2 SuC" option.
75kW but with minimum sharing. IE if a second car pulls in they get a minimum amount (say 25kW) and it increases as the other car tails off.

This is what Tesla do at V2 shared stalls. 150kW split, and the second car gets a min 30kW which rises as the other tails off.
Good news if you're charging beside a kona, as they taper at 55%, bad news if youre beside an etron, which doesnt taper below 50kW at all.



EDIT: What andy said above.

slave1

Just put in another charger FFS and be done with this load sharing crap, I don't want to hook up, go for grub and find I've been throttled by a Leaf (no snob, we have a Leaf)

Black_Knight

slave1 wrote: »

Just put in another charger FFS and be done with this load sharing crap, I don't want to hook up, go for grub and find I've been throttled by a Leaf (no snob, we have a Leaf)

In an ideal world they'd have multiple chargers, but that doubles the expense and doesn't double the revenue. Maybe if a unit shows high usage they could add more, but I suspect where easy go will put these they'll be once off units.

graememk

Black_Knight wrote: »

In an ideal world they'd have multiple chargers, but that doubles the expense and doesn't double the revenue. Maybe if a unit shows high usage they could add more, but I suspect where easy go will put these they'll be once off units.

1 unit is better than 0 units.

Black_Knight

graememk wrote: »

1 unit is better than 0 units.

The math checks out.

slave1

graememk wrote: »

1 unit is better than 0 units.

We’ve suffered years of 1 unit, broken/ice’d, inaccessible or occupied all of which lead to single point of failure when you need a charge.
We’re doomed if we continue with single charger strategy and not move on from eCars failings.

graememk

slave1 wrote: »

We’ve suffered years of 1 unit, broken/ice’d, inaccessible or occupied all of which lead to single point of failure when you need a charge.
We’re doomed if we continue with single charger strategy and not move on from eCars failings.

Oh I agree, 2+ gives redundancy, like the rule for backups and toilet paper, "one is none"

It would be fantastic if they can roll them out in pairs or more, If there is site limits, load balance between the two stations. If there is 2 or more there, people would be more likely to go there vs a 1 station.

Its private money, and they have to make a profit sometime though - hopefully they can.

zg3409

slave1 wrote: »

We’ve suffered years of 1 unit, broken/ice’d, inaccessible or occupied all of which lead to single point of failure when you need a charge.
We’re doomed if we continue with single charger strategy and not move on from eCars failings.

Easygo have 2 separate chargers co sited at kinnegad 'motorway services'
Often they have had issue with one faulty, but they seem to fix in a day or two.

Besides the charger cost the ESB supply cost can be crazy if nearby transformers and wiring all needs replacing. It seems to be relatively easy to get a 50kW supply, but 2 x 50kW or 75kW or 2 x 75kW might easily increase the cost or rule out sites from viability.

Load sharing on a 150kW makes sense as many cars cannot draw more than 50 or 100kW and when they do its not for long periods.

However these 75kW Max new charger easygo are talking about installing only have one chademo and one CCS (looking at manufacturer image). 95% of chademo cars can't take more than 59kW, that leaves at least 25kW for CCS cars and assuming load sharing is not 50/50 split like ESB, then its likely both cars will get 35kW each most of the time.

That said if a CCS car is first and drawing the full 75kW with a first comes first policy, the ChaDeMo will get nothing, and basically be waiting in a queue.

AndyBoBandy

zg3409 wrote: »

It seems to be relatively easy to get a 50kW supply, but 2 x 50kW or 75kW or 2 x 75kW might easily increase the cost or rule out sites from viability.

Thats why they need to be targeting sites where the work is already done.. Take Circle K Clonsaugh for example..
Theres a services area with petrol station/restaurants (and an eCars unit), and then 2 hotels next door (one of them brand spanking new).

So that site should be relatively cheap to develop onto a hub as it will already have teh power supply to handle multiple 75kW chargers...

Then, bring in legislation so that any new services areas are built with capacity to support multiple high power chargers...

Black_Knight

Possibly glossed over in the esb thread, but from the ievoa meeting today, easygo clearly said (in comments) that charging via vin - plug in and walk away, the vin is matched to your account - is coming this year, starting with VW cars. A nice coup over ecars if they get it up and running.

They also mentioned the 180 eir phone boxes being recommissioned as car chargers is now 250 phone boxes, and primarily the 75kW units will be going into them. Should start seeing those coming online in the next 2-3 months.

AndyBoBandy

That’s brilliant. 250 DC fast charger where they’ll be actually needed.. in town & village centres.

Someone finally putting up to eCars.

For many this could mean on a sub 200km outbound trip to somewhere, there’ll be no need to queue up at the eCars motorway ‘hubs’, as there’ll be fast destination charging available at their destination...

zg3409

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

That’s brilliant. 250 DC fast charger where they’ll be actually needed.. in town & village centres.

Someone finally putting up to eCars.

For many this could mean on a sub 200km outbound trip to somewhere, there’ll be no need to queue up at the eCars motorway ‘hubs’, as there’ll be fast destination charging available at their destination...

Just beware these are all "up to" numbers, but they got 10 million euro recently to roll out.
They mentioned on Saturdays meeting all sites need to have a business case and 2 chargers could be supplied if the usage showed it would pay for itself.

They mentioned getting sites was a big issue. (mainly because the sites cannot afford to pay rent, so they are revenue sharing very little revenue)

The new tritium 75kW chargers they are using are capable of this plug in and charging will start automatically but its CCS only and cars may not be 100% compatible. There is a very complicated system for authorisation, but they may just use cars VIN or unique ID and link that to your easygo account. They have touch to pay credit card readers at newest sites.

I think town centres will have blocked charger issues, more than car parks, hotels and out of town sites. A single charger that can't be accessed is a big problem, particularly for locals in apartments with no home charger. To be viable these chargers need regular users, that may be locals with no home or work charger.

ELM327

Black_Knight wrote: »

Possibly glossed over in the esb thread, but from the ievoa meeting today, easygo clearly said (in comments) that charging via vin - plug in and walk away, the vin is matched to your account - is coming this year, starting with VW cars. A nice coup over ecars if they get it up and running.

They also mentioned the 180 eir phone boxes being recommissioned as car chargers is now 250 phone boxes, and primarily the 75kW units will be going into them. Should start seeing those coming online in the next 2-3 months.

Any indications about dual located per site or is this another set of SPOF chargers?
75kW is a big increase over 50kW in terms of time saved.

McGiver

AndyBoBandy wrote:

For many this could mean on a sub 200km outbound trip to somewhere, there’ll be no need to queue up at the eCars motorway ‘hubs’, as there’ll be fast destination charging available at their destination...

I don't know... More fast chargers is good but they should be on the motorways or near them, at the petrol stations.

What I do is that when I arrive to the somewhere in the middle of nowhere (say Birr), I let the car charge on 11 kW AC and go about my business. When I come back, the car is fully charged and I just leave.
You can't do this with a DC, you have to be there and wait 15 to 30 minutes at least. That's a lost time. And that's why AC is better in towns as a "destination" charger.
DC has other benefits but this is an obvious disadvantage. And it's the reason you see overwhelmingly AC chargers around Europe in this type of setting.

AndyBoBandy

McGiver wrote: »

You can't do this with a DC, you have to be there and wait 15 to 30 minutes at least. That's a lost time. And that's why AC is better in towns as a "destination" charger.

If I'm losing the time regardless, I'd probably rather lose it in a nice quiet picturesque village or town somewhere, with a decent choice of coffee/food options, and not the generic crap you find in motorway services..

I don't disagree that we need a big motorway route charging network, but it seems eCars are finally thinking about getting the finger out on that one... so let them away with it.

But at the same time, I believe there is a market for local DC fast charging, so when Mary goes into town to collect her pension, and buy her milk in the newsagents, she'll have gotten a full charge by the time she's finished.

Black_Knight

ELM327 wrote: »

Any indications about dual located per site or is this another set of SPOF chargers?
75kW is a big increase over 50kW in terms of time saved.

He was pretty honest on this. They're a private company, and need to make profits, so they can't justify putting multiple units where the numbers don't add up to profits. They have/will however do all the groundwork necessary to ensure it's much easier to install units in the future. They do this already, and will continue to do so. They are also monitoring their units in order to guide their rollout - continued usage indicates people may be waiting, and thus it'd be a good place to install a 2nd unit. They'll also be installing units at musgrave owned shops. Neither had a time period to roll these out.

Ultimately, if there's good additional infrastructure from easyGo, and some more from ESB, you hopefully won't be too far away from a backup unit. Not idea, but I can't blame them. They can't do this at a loss.

Black_Knight

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

If I'm losing the time regardless, I'd probably rather lose it in a nice quiet picturesque village or town somewhere, with a decent choice of coffee/food options, and not the generic crap you find in motorway services..

I don't disagree that we need a big motorway route charging network, but it seems eCars are finally thinking about getting the finger out on that one... so let them away with it.

But at the same time, I believe there is a market for local DC fast charging, so when Mary goes into town to collect her pension, and buy her milk in the newsagents, she'll have gotten a full charge by the time she's finished.

I think "more is more" is the solution. Not a cheap one, and that's why we are where we are. Local AC units can easily be tied up by those commuting, or without home charging, so some areas could benefit from those - Covid skews the usage.

More DC units, because as you say, Mary heading to the shops or whatever could get decent charge in that 30-40 minutes. We've all been pretty vocal around how pointless Tescos AC units are. EasyGo adding DC units to supervalu hopefully won't get the same reception.

ELM327

Black_Knight wrote: »

He was pretty honest on this. They're a private company, and need to make profits, so they can't justify putting multiple units where the numbers don't add up to profits. They have/will however do all the groundwork necessary to ensure it's much easier to install units in the future. They do this already, and will continue to do so. They are also monitoring their units in order to guide their rollout - continued usage indicates people may be waiting, and thus it'd be a good place to install a 2nd unit. They'll also be installing units at musgrave owned shops. Neither had a time period to roll these out.

Ultimately, if there's good additional infrastructure from easyGo, and some more from ESB, you hopefully won't be too far away from a backup unit. Not idea, but I can't blame them. They can't do this at a loss.

Fair play to him for being honest at least. I can appreciate his reasoning.

AndyBoBandy

Imagine what they could have done with €10m in state funding...

You know, lads who seem to know what their doing..

liamog

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Imagine what they could have done with €10m in state funding...

You know, lads who seem to know what their doing..

I don't think there is anything stopping them from applying to the climate action fund.

McGiver

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

If I'm losing the time regardless, I'd probably rather lose it in a nice quiet picturesque village or town somewhere, with a decent choice of coffee/food options, and not the generic crap you find in motorway services..

I don't disagree that we need a big motorway route charging network, but it seems eCars are finally thinking about getting the finger out on that one... so let them away with it.

But at the same time, I believe there is a market for local DC fast charging, so when Mary goes into town to collect her pension, and buy her milk in the newsagents, she'll have gotten a full charge by the time she's finished.

The good thing is - competition. Always good!

And if the third German provider come in, we will have 3-4 players and they keep each other at the throat. eCars can't win but it will move them (before they privatise the network - I guess)

innrain

Black_Knight wrote: »

He was pretty honest on this. They're a private company, and need to make profits, so they can't justify putting multiple units where the numbers don't add up to profits. They have/will however do all the groundwork necessary to ensure it's much easier to install units in the future. They do this already, and will continue to do so. They are also monitoring their units in order to guide their rollout - continued usage indicates people may be waiting, and thus it'd be a good place to install a 2nd unit. They'll also be installing units at musgrave owned shops. Neither had a time period to roll these out.

Ultimately, if there's good additional infrastructure from easyGo, and some more from ESB, you hopefully won't be too far away from a backup unit. Not idea, but I can't blame them. They can't do this at a loss.

Had a listen to the meet as well and he mentioned signing the contract with Musgrave to install fast chargers at about 200 shops both North and South. I think this is quite big if it happens.

Black_Knight

innrain wrote: »

Had a listen to the meet as well and he mentioned signing the contract with Musgrave to install fast chargers at about 200 shops both North and South. I think this is quite big if it happens.

No word of a rollout plan, so who knows over what period we'll start to see these, but Chris seemed pretty enthusiastic about lots of easy go installs this year.

innrain

Just a heads up that the maximum amount of charging depends on the funds available before starting the session.
I added funds during the charging session but it still stopped exactly when the initial amount was spent. It makes sense from the prepay perspective I suppose.

AndyBoBandy

4x 22kW AC units gone into the Clayton Hotel near Dublin airport.

https://twitter.com/easygo_ie/status/1387452229532147712?s=21

eagerv

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

4x 22kW AC units gone into the Clayton Hotel near Dublin airport.

https://twitter.com/easygo_ie/status/1387452229532147712?s=21

Great to see, but I often leave my car there for 2 to 14 days. Wonder how that would work?