EasyGo public chargers

graememk

slave1 wrote: »

We’ve suffered years of 1 unit, broken/ice’d, inaccessible or occupied all of which lead to single point of failure when you need a charge.
We’re doomed if we continue with single charger strategy and not move on from eCars failings.

Oh I agree, 2+ gives redundancy, like the rule for backups and toilet paper, "one is none"

It would be fantastic if they can roll them out in pairs or more, If there is site limits, load balance between the two stations. If there is 2 or more there, people would be more likely to go there vs a 1 station.

Its private money, and they have to make a profit sometime though - hopefully they can.

zg3409

slave1 wrote: »

We’ve suffered years of 1 unit, broken/ice’d, inaccessible or occupied all of which lead to single point of failure when you need a charge.
We’re doomed if we continue with single charger strategy and not move on from eCars failings.

Easygo have 2 separate chargers co sited at kinnegad 'motorway services'
Often they have had issue with one faulty, but they seem to fix in a day or two.

Besides the charger cost the ESB supply cost can be crazy if nearby transformers and wiring all needs replacing. It seems to be relatively easy to get a 50kW supply, but 2 x 50kW or 75kW or 2 x 75kW might easily increase the cost or rule out sites from viability.

Load sharing on a 150kW makes sense as many cars cannot draw more than 50 or 100kW and when they do its not for long periods.

However these 75kW Max new charger easygo are talking about installing only have one chademo and one CCS (looking at manufacturer image). 95% of chademo cars can't take more than 59kW, that leaves at least 25kW for CCS cars and assuming load sharing is not 50/50 split like ESB, then its likely both cars will get 35kW each most of the time.

That said if a CCS car is first and drawing the full 75kW with a first comes first policy, the ChaDeMo will get nothing, and basically be waiting in a queue.

AndyBoBandy

zg3409 wrote: »

It seems to be relatively easy to get a 50kW supply, but 2 x 50kW or 75kW or 2 x 75kW might easily increase the cost or rule out sites from viability.

Thats why they need to be targeting sites where the work is already done.. Take Circle K Clonsaugh for example..
Theres a services area with petrol station/restaurants (and an eCars unit), and then 2 hotels next door (one of them brand spanking new).

So that site should be relatively cheap to develop onto a hub as it will already have teh power supply to handle multiple 75kW chargers...

Then, bring in legislation so that any new services areas are built with capacity to support multiple high power chargers...

Black_Knight

Possibly glossed over in the esb thread, but from the ievoa meeting today, easygo clearly said (in comments) that charging via vin - plug in and walk away, the vin is matched to your account - is coming this year, starting with VW cars. A nice coup over ecars if they get it up and running.

They also mentioned the 180 eir phone boxes being recommissioned as car chargers is now 250 phone boxes, and primarily the 75kW units will be going into them. Should start seeing those coming online in the next 2-3 months.

AndyBoBandy

That’s brilliant. 250 DC fast charger where they’ll be actually needed.. in town & village centres.

Someone finally putting up to eCars.

For many this could mean on a sub 200km outbound trip to somewhere, there’ll be no need to queue up at the eCars motorway ‘hubs’, as there’ll be fast destination charging available at their destination...

zg3409

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

That’s brilliant. 250 DC fast charger where they’ll be actually needed.. in town & village centres.

Someone finally putting up to eCars.

For many this could mean on a sub 200km outbound trip to somewhere, there’ll be no need to queue up at the eCars motorway ‘hubs’, as there’ll be fast destination charging available at their destination...

Just beware these are all "up to" numbers, but they got 10 million euro recently to roll out.
They mentioned on Saturdays meeting all sites need to have a business case and 2 chargers could be supplied if the usage showed it would pay for itself.

They mentioned getting sites was a big issue. (mainly because the sites cannot afford to pay rent, so they are revenue sharing very little revenue)

The new tritium 75kW chargers they are using are capable of this plug in and charging will start automatically but its CCS only and cars may not be 100% compatible. There is a very complicated system for authorisation, but they may just use cars VIN or unique ID and link that to your easygo account. They have touch to pay credit card readers at newest sites.

I think town centres will have blocked charger issues, more than car parks, hotels and out of town sites. A single charger that can't be accessed is a big problem, particularly for locals in apartments with no home charger. To be viable these chargers need regular users, that may be locals with no home or work charger.

ELM327

Black_Knight wrote: »

Possibly glossed over in the esb thread, but from the ievoa meeting today, easygo clearly said (in comments) that charging via vin - plug in and walk away, the vin is matched to your account - is coming this year, starting with VW cars. A nice coup over ecars if they get it up and running.

They also mentioned the 180 eir phone boxes being recommissioned as car chargers is now 250 phone boxes, and primarily the 75kW units will be going into them. Should start seeing those coming online in the next 2-3 months.

Any indications about dual located per site or is this another set of SPOF chargers?
75kW is a big increase over 50kW in terms of time saved.

McGiver

AndyBoBandy wrote:

For many this could mean on a sub 200km outbound trip to somewhere, there’ll be no need to queue up at the eCars motorway ‘hubs’, as there’ll be fast destination charging available at their destination...

I don't know... More fast chargers is good but they should be on the motorways or near them, at the petrol stations.

What I do is that when I arrive to the somewhere in the middle of nowhere (say Birr), I let the car charge on 11 kW AC and go about my business. When I come back, the car is fully charged and I just leave.
You can't do this with a DC, you have to be there and wait 15 to 30 minutes at least. That's a lost time. And that's why AC is better in towns as a "destination" charger.
DC has other benefits but this is an obvious disadvantage. And it's the reason you see overwhelmingly AC chargers around Europe in this type of setting.

AndyBoBandy

McGiver wrote: »

You can't do this with a DC, you have to be there and wait 15 to 30 minutes at least. That's a lost time. And that's why AC is better in towns as a "destination" charger.

If I'm losing the time regardless, I'd probably rather lose it in a nice quiet picturesque village or town somewhere, with a decent choice of coffee/food options, and not the generic crap you find in motorway services..

I don't disagree that we need a big motorway route charging network, but it seems eCars are finally thinking about getting the finger out on that one... so let them away with it.

But at the same time, I believe there is a market for local DC fast charging, so when Mary goes into town to collect her pension, and buy her milk in the newsagents, she'll have gotten a full charge by the time she's finished.

Black_Knight

ELM327 wrote: »

Any indications about dual located per site or is this another set of SPOF chargers?
75kW is a big increase over 50kW in terms of time saved.

He was pretty honest on this. They're a private company, and need to make profits, so they can't justify putting multiple units where the numbers don't add up to profits. They have/will however do all the groundwork necessary to ensure it's much easier to install units in the future. They do this already, and will continue to do so. They are also monitoring their units in order to guide their rollout - continued usage indicates people may be waiting, and thus it'd be a good place to install a 2nd unit. They'll also be installing units at musgrave owned shops. Neither had a time period to roll these out.

Ultimately, if there's good additional infrastructure from easyGo, and some more from ESB, you hopefully won't be too far away from a backup unit. Not idea, but I can't blame them. They can't do this at a loss.

Black_Knight

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

If I'm losing the time regardless, I'd probably rather lose it in a nice quiet picturesque village or town somewhere, with a decent choice of coffee/food options, and not the generic crap you find in motorway services..

I don't disagree that we need a big motorway route charging network, but it seems eCars are finally thinking about getting the finger out on that one... so let them away with it.

But at the same time, I believe there is a market for local DC fast charging, so when Mary goes into town to collect her pension, and buy her milk in the newsagents, she'll have gotten a full charge by the time she's finished.

I think "more is more" is the solution. Not a cheap one, and that's why we are where we are. Local AC units can easily be tied up by those commuting, or without home charging, so some areas could benefit from those - Covid skews the usage.

More DC units, because as you say, Mary heading to the shops or whatever could get decent charge in that 30-40 minutes. We've all been pretty vocal around how pointless Tescos AC units are. EasyGo adding DC units to supervalu hopefully won't get the same reception.

ELM327

Black_Knight wrote: »

He was pretty honest on this. They're a private company, and need to make profits, so they can't justify putting multiple units where the numbers don't add up to profits. They have/will however do all the groundwork necessary to ensure it's much easier to install units in the future. They do this already, and will continue to do so. They are also monitoring their units in order to guide their rollout - continued usage indicates people may be waiting, and thus it'd be a good place to install a 2nd unit. They'll also be installing units at musgrave owned shops. Neither had a time period to roll these out.

Ultimately, if there's good additional infrastructure from easyGo, and some more from ESB, you hopefully won't be too far away from a backup unit. Not idea, but I can't blame them. They can't do this at a loss.

Fair play to him for being honest at least. I can appreciate his reasoning.

AndyBoBandy

Imagine what they could have done with €10m in state funding...

You know, lads who seem to know what their doing..

liamog

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Imagine what they could have done with €10m in state funding...

You know, lads who seem to know what their doing..

I don't think there is anything stopping them from applying to the climate action fund.

McGiver

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

If I'm losing the time regardless, I'd probably rather lose it in a nice quiet picturesque village or town somewhere, with a decent choice of coffee/food options, and not the generic crap you find in motorway services..

I don't disagree that we need a big motorway route charging network, but it seems eCars are finally thinking about getting the finger out on that one... so let them away with it.

But at the same time, I believe there is a market for local DC fast charging, so when Mary goes into town to collect her pension, and buy her milk in the newsagents, she'll have gotten a full charge by the time she's finished.

The good thing is - competition. Always good!

And if the third German provider come in, we will have 3-4 players and they keep each other at the throat. eCars can't win but it will move them (before they privatise the network - I guess)

innrain

Black_Knight wrote: »

He was pretty honest on this. They're a private company, and need to make profits, so they can't justify putting multiple units where the numbers don't add up to profits. They have/will however do all the groundwork necessary to ensure it's much easier to install units in the future. They do this already, and will continue to do so. They are also monitoring their units in order to guide their rollout - continued usage indicates people may be waiting, and thus it'd be a good place to install a 2nd unit. They'll also be installing units at musgrave owned shops. Neither had a time period to roll these out.

Ultimately, if there's good additional infrastructure from easyGo, and some more from ESB, you hopefully won't be too far away from a backup unit. Not idea, but I can't blame them. They can't do this at a loss.

Had a listen to the meet as well and he mentioned signing the contract with Musgrave to install fast chargers at about 200 shops both North and South. I think this is quite big if it happens.

Black_Knight

innrain wrote: »

Had a listen to the meet as well and he mentioned signing the contract with Musgrave to install fast chargers at about 200 shops both North and South. I think this is quite big if it happens.

No word of a rollout plan, so who knows over what period we'll start to see these, but Chris seemed pretty enthusiastic about lots of easy go installs this year.

innrain

Just a heads up that the maximum amount of charging depends on the funds available before starting the session.
I added funds during the charging session but it still stopped exactly when the initial amount was spent. It makes sense from the prepay perspective I suppose.

AndyBoBandy

4x 22kW AC units gone into the Clayton Hotel near Dublin airport.

https://twitter.com/easygo_ie/status/1387452229532147712?s=21

eagerv

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

4x 22kW AC units gone into the Clayton Hotel near Dublin airport.

https://twitter.com/easygo_ie/status/1387452229532147712?s=21

Great to see, but I often leave my car there for 2 to 14 days. Wonder how that would work?

Busman Paddy Lasty

eagerv wrote: »

Great to see, but I often leave my car there for 2 to 14 days. Wonder how that would work?

Does the Clayton allow parking if your flying and not staying there? That's a bit mad because they could be occupied for days which would be unusual.

eagerv

Busman Paddy Lasty wrote: »

Does the Clayton allow parking if your flying and not staying there? That's a bit mad because they could be occupied for days which would be unusual.

Haven't left the car there for last year or so for obvious reasons, but prior to that often did when flying away. Often cheaper than the long term airport car parks and car under cover.

Busman Paddy Lasty

eagerv wrote: »

Haven't left the car there for last year or so for obvious reasons, but prior to that often did when flying away. Often cheaper than the long term airport car parks and car under cover.

Good to know for future reference. Have to hope people won't batter them, or whatever the ev equivalent of ICE-ing is.

cannco253

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/daa-tenders-for-eight-year-425m-upgrade-of-dublin-airport-1.4502650

“Along with this, DAA wants to upgrade Dublin Airport’s environmental systems, install new electrical charging points for vehicles and equipment operated by ground handling companies, add public electric vehicle charging points and upgrade airfield lighting systems to energy efficient LED fittings.”

Kramer

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

4x 22kW AC units gone into the Clayton Hotel near Dublin airport.

eagerv wrote: »

Great to see, but I often leave my car there for 2 to 14 days. Wonder how that would work?

They should work like most other chargers & I'd say there's a good chance you'd have a full battery when you got back, after 14 days :P.

Jokes aside, yeah, they'd need valet parking of some sort to move cars once charged or to move cars to the chargers at a predetermined time, in advance of the traveller arriving back.
Probably cost prohibitive & another insurance headache, so they'll just go with "there are chargers on the wall so we're green".

I'm sure they'll figure out a way of upping the utilisation & monetising them in future, but 22kW at hotels isn't an ideal choice IMO. Banks of cheap as chips 7kW units, free for overnighting guests - great. 50kW DC for people stopping in for meals, meetings, afternoon tea, using the gym or pool - great. 22kW falls between two stools.

Not knocking them, the more the better.

markpb

Kramer wrote: »

but 22kW at hotels isn't an ideal choice IMO. Banks of cheap as chips 7kW units, free for overnighting guests - great. 50kW DC for people stopping in for meals, meetings, afternoon tea, using the gym or pool - great. 22kW falls between two stools.

Every car should have a 16.5 or 22kW AC charger. Then we could put 22kW chargers in all the places you mentioned and 150kW chargers on inter-urban routes. 50kW chargers are rubbish. They’re too fast to allow you to go for a proper meal (at least with the eCars 45 minute overstay charge) and too slow to allow you to sit and wait when you’re mid journey.

liamog

markpb wrote: »

Every car should have a 16.5 or 22kW AC charger. Then we could put 22kW chargers in all the places you mentioned and 150kW chargers on inter-urban routes. 50kW chargers are rubbish. They’re too fast to allow you to go for a proper meal (at least with the eCars 45 minute overstay charge) and too slow to allow you to sit and wait when you’re mid journey.

With modern cars, the 50kW charger should be treated as a 1 hour charger, the overstay charge should be lifted on them where there is an alternative or HPC available. For a location like a hotel, yeah 22 7kW charge points is a better use than 7 22kW ones.

Black_Knight

liamog wrote: »

With modern cars, the 50kW charger should be treated as a 1 hour charger, the overstay charge should be lifted on them where there is an alternative or HPC available. For a location like a hotel, yeah 22 7kW charge points is a better use than 7 22kW ones.

Anywhere that's overnight parking has no need to provide more power than you can get at your own home. 7kW.

50kW DC as you say is more of a 1 hour charger in 2021, but until we have more units I don't see ecars removing that overstay fee. My car on 50kW for an hour is about 60% battery. In certain scenarios I'd be happy to leave it charge for an hour or more on DC (grabbing lunch with the family at a smaller towns DC unit) but with the overstay fee I feel limited to 45 minutes. 50kW is a fast slow charger to me, and the 45 minute fee renders them a bit useless (I say a bit, because I could just pay for it).

22kW AC (I can use 11kW) are only useful to me if I'm stopping for a few hours. Rugby match or a browse around town for a few hours etc, unfortunately they're typically occupied by cars which have long since charged (commuters etc).

zg3409

I see a report from easygo when you use an easygo fob or app at an esb charger, particularly 22kW AC chargers then esb mistakenly are applying an overstay fine after 45 minutes, which they should not have. Easygo and esb are aware of the problem and presumably those that have been overcharged in the past will be refunded. So if you used your easygo fob or app to start an esb 22kW charger check your fees history

Black_Knight

I thought EasyGo had an overstay fee at IKEA (I remember it being 2 hours) but the app says there's no overstay now. Same deal with Decathalon. Can anyone confirm that?

Felexicon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117822407#Comment_117822407

No Overstay fee at either

zg3409

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117822407#Comment_117822407

They used to have.

Black_Knight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117837679#Comment_117837679

Yeah. Seems the same was true for decathlon too. Used them today for 2 and a half hours, 28kWh, €8. Flawless service, and really quick to handshake and initiate charge.

LarryBarry

Hi anybody help - Have easy go app setup & funds in it. Using iOS & trying to use the app on an ESB charger I keep getting a rejected error

Red Silurian

What's the story with charging at Lidl? I know it's 2 hours free but what happens after the 2 hours? Do they cut you off or do you get billed for any kWh used over 2hrs? I know that any Lidl I've been to only allow 2 hours parking so I assume there's a fine form Lidl as well

innrain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117958452#Comment_117958452

There were reports of connectivity issues between ecars and easygo. Use ecars website to start an ad-hoc charging session if you don't want to create an account with ecars.

bkeane

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117958799#Comment_117958799

Easygo don't charge you for overstaying. However if Lidl have clampers to cover a car park, they could clamp you if you overstay.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117958815#Comment_117958815

Right so not really enforced by easygo then... Good to know

zg3409

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117959020#Comment_117959020

Yes. The charger does not stop, so in theory you can stay all day. Particular stores have strict clamping, others less so. They can move the beggars from the doors at some, so it's less of an issue. So look for beggars when you abandon!

In terms of overstay fee on AC ESB chargers after 45 minutes, easygo said on Facebook that they hope it to be resolved in the coming weeks and that it may indeed be unintended by ESB. Here is hoping.

I asked easygo today by email if they can auto top up my account (like ESB do) when my credit is low as twice at easygo chargers my charging stopped mid charge due to low credit. You need to realise, try to figure out why, top up, go to Banks app to verify, go back to easygo app and click continue, all while you are not charging

In DCU main campus the touch to pay reader is not "yet" working, but the charger is ok on app and fob. I find that site is very quiet at weekends while other nearby ESB sites are often in use even at midnight.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117973519#Comment_117973519

Yes. The charger does not stop, so in theory you can stay all day. Particular stores have strict clamping, others less so. They can move the beggars from the doors at some, so it's less of an issue. So look for beggars when you abandon!

Just to be clear, my intention is not to abandon, my concern was if I'd overstayed by a minute or 2 what would likely happen, I live across the road from a lidl with these chargers and I'm a regular customer of the store so fully intend to avail of the 2hrs free charge but no more

innrain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117973519#Comment_117973519

And also you need to have the credit topped before you start the session. If you add funds later while the car charges, the charger still stops when the initial amount is reached. I worked out I need to have around 20 quid when I start a charge to make sure it does not stop due to low credit.

zg3409

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117973779#Comment_117973779

Personally I value my time more and with a home charger on night rate I don't bother to public charge if I don't need to even if it is free. That said I tend to prefer free chargers if I need them. You should factor in the hassle of starting and stopping a charge, going home and back, and then the moral issue of possibly depriving some that needs a charge not getting one. For my max 7kW EV I would save 1.40 euro approx per 2 hours charging. I sometimes just test the chargers to ensure they are working for others.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117974371#Comment_117974371

It's funny, when looking for chargers I generally pick the paid ones. They are less likely to be hogged by locals etc.

As an example, I had to wait in Rathfarnham for 2 hours over the weekend so I parked and plugged in at the chargepoint charger in the shopping center. I picked that over Nutgrove as Nutgrove is free to use and likely overrun with locals

zg3409

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117975439#Comment_117975439

I tend to prefer paid easygo 50kW chargers over ESB 50kW chargers, mainly as they are less busy and more likely to be not in use. They cost a bit more but the 2 X 50kW in kinnegad are often both not in use, even though I don't like supermacs. The one at DCU main campus is great as all nearby 50kW ESB units tend to be very busy, possibly the busiest in the country. Kinnegad is also a good distance for my EV in terms of range, with back up options before and after if they are busy or broke or blocked. The free circle k 50kW in Athlone is my first port of call, but there is lots of backup options nearby. (it's broken at the minute). It's a great motorway services. It's a pity Easygo don't have 50kW chargers at more key sites.

ELM327

Yes if I'm looking for DC my priority is

• Multiple units per site
• Paid
• Backup available

The kinnegad location is only 20 minutes from my current house so I dont really use it for charging but on the few times I have, it's been in use on the other side too.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117976076#Comment_117976076

What do they cost more? Is it 5c per unit? So on a 62kWh battery it would cost €2.48 to go from 0-80%? I wouldn't be public charging too often but once a month it wouldn't be bad

AhHaor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117975439#Comment_117975439

It is overrun with locals, and the usual 4x4 style of car with the hybrid battery!

zg3409

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117978768#Comment_117978768

Easygo have a start charge fee, but it looks to be 40c vs 30c on ESB. Prices vary depending on touch to pay easygo or account type with esb etc. I tend to charge at home on night rate so the odd public charge fees do not add up to much.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117980041#Comment_117980041

So 10c extra a unit... Saucy enough at 40c as well

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117982920#Comment_117982920

No really , what’s your day unit charge ?

now add on the cost of the charger, billing system, maintenance, rent etc.

seems fair enough