The PGA Tour Thread

Mantis Toboggan

Looks like Rahmbo off to LIV!! Wasn't too long ago he said he already had enough money to last him a lifetime. I suppose everyone has a price. Massive coup for the Sauidis.

Richard Hillman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121456564#Comment_121456564

I think it's the schedule more than anything else. That 20 event thing was never going to work. He has voiced his displeasure on it during the season.

The PGA TV deal must be on the brink. Sky are also moving Premier League games to Sunday nights. They dont like anything going up against their Premier League games.

eagle eye

The two most popular golfers on the planet are Tiger Woods and Rory McIlroy, they are far and away the most popular.

I'd be guessing that Spieth, Thomas, Rahm and Fowler are next. Losing one of them isn't that big of a deal.

You'd have to think now that the Saudi deal with the PGA tour is dead in the water. I really hope it is.

You can add Rahm to the list of those who value money more than the rights and lives of the LGBT community and Women and lots of other stuff.

Good riddance to him.

Have any of those who joined that tour maintained their popularity? I don't think they have.

PARlance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121457059#Comment_121457059

Losing any big player is a big deal, for me anyway. I've no interest in watching LIV but my interest in watching the PGA has steadily declined since LIV.

If Rahm goes then we could say good riddance to him. But I would also say, this is a major blow to the PGA.

Tiger might still draw in the crowds but I flicked on and off the golf very quickly on Sunday. I've no interest watching a struggling Tiger dominating TV time while he's 15 shots off the lead.

spacecoyote

I guess the green jacket getting him some exemptions for the majors maybe has him thinking he can go for now because it'll probably be sorted and realigned by the time his exemptions run out

Mantis Toboggan

Big loss off the Ryder cup team also for Bethpage.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121457182#Comment_121457182

You've got Scottie Scheffler, Viktor Hovland, Collin Morikawa and loads more top class golfers. You've got the up and coming young players, Ludvig Aberg, Tom Kim and Min Woo Lee. You've got the redemption stories with Ricki Fowler, Brian Harman and Lucas Glover. The late bloomers like Wyndham Clark and Kurt Kityama.

Rahm isn't a huge loss.

IAmTitleist

Anyone who says is Rahm isn't a huge loss is living on a different planet.

He is the biggest name in golf outside of Rory/Tiger/Spieth. Not to mention probably a better player than all of those.

Huge coup for LIV and a huge loss to the PGA.

Jack Daw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121457376#Comment_121457376

What a load of nonsense.

Rahm is one of the 2 or 3 best players in the world.

He's a massive loss. PGA tour is done unless they do a deal with LIV to merge everything, it's not as if all those other players you mention won't be happy enough to jump ship now.

The Big Easy

Rahm is my favourite current player after Rory.

He's the biggest current draw after Rory globally (leaving Tiger aside).

It's probably close between him and Rory globally due to the Latin effect.

I imagine he'll only sign if he's almost certain of the PIF PGA merger and any RC major issues being sorted going forward. I can't imagine he wants to be on the outside if it goes another way.

He's probably thinking $600m in the bank for playing a scaled back season plus any other tournament he wants is a pretty sweet deal.

I'm personally surprised he's doing it as he's been critical of the 54 hole no cut format and he's a born winner. It's not really the same winning any LIV event, either emotionally or historically.

This is by far the biggest loss the PGA Tour has suffered in this. I'd say Phil has had a big role in it and he'll continue his vendetta remorselessly against the PGA tour, as he has pinned his reputation on LIV.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121457955#Comment_121457955

It's not about the best. There's loads of great golfers.

It's about popularity and as long as Tiger and Rory are there you'll see huge viewership figures. Thise two and Spieth, Fowler, Ricki and Thomas. There's others too.

It's the package not the quality that people care about. As long as it's competitive and you've got storylines it'll be a big seller. One golfer won't affect that. Mickelson was one of the most popular golfers in the history of the sport and his defection didn't change anything.

It's your thoughts that are a load of nonsense.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121458179#Comment_121458179

Tiger, Rory, Jordan and Ricki are the four biggest names in golf worldwide. They have the most followers on social media.

Tiger, Rory, Spieth, Thomas and Schauffele have the most lucrative sponsorship deals. Mickelson was third but lost it when he went to the other tour.

The Big Easy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121458428#Comment_121458428

I would think a poster of your vintage would be less obsessed with social media!

I don't follow anyone on social media and as an avid golfer I'm probably not alone in that.

I would guess that I'm worth more to the golf industry per annum than the average throwaway social media like.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121458463#Comment_121458463

I don't use social media at all. I just gave you facts and they matter a lot, sadly.

The Big Easy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121458387#Comment_121458387

It's about a critical mass of top players imo. LIV are getting closer to that critical mass with the signing of Rahm.

I've dipped in briefly to watch the odd bit of coverage but never for too long.

Now a LIV tournament fought out between any of the following would interest me: Cam, Rahm, Brooks, Niemann, Bryson, DJ, Phil and maybe even Gooch now that he looks to be maturing into a top player.

Now you know that slate of players are playing any LIV event whereas as outside the designated PGA events the fields are getting weaker and weaker and therefore so is the interest.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121458495#Comment_121458495

Well I'll never watch it for reasons outside of golf. I am finished with the PGA tour, European tour and any other tour that involves those Saudi cretins.

I've high hopes that they won't be involved with the PGA tour. Tiger is clearly against it and that's a huge thing.

If he decides he doesn't want to be involved in the Tour and the deal goes through, you can see him getting all the backing he wants to start a new tour and Rory will go with him. That's of course if they want to do that but this new TGL is going to show how big the market support is for something like that.

Guess what happens then, all the big events currently on the PGA tour will move over to the new tour.

They'd make a fortune if that happened.

Comhrá

As someone who gets Sky Sports from April till around October each year for the golf season, I think I'm done with paying to watch the PGA at this stage. A few more big names will probably now also defect and the Tour is getting less and less attractive as a spectacle. The DP World Tour is gone very stale and boring too, imho.

Russman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121458513#Comment_121458513

I'd honestly say there's close to zero chance of Tiger or anyone setting up another rival tour to the PGA Tour. Why would they ? Tiger's done and Rory wants Majors. IMHO there's not a chance on earth of those remaining top players getting all faux principled over Saudi dollars and breaking away. You think any of them look into the source of their prize money ? I can't remember the stat, but there was one put out at the very beginning of the whole LIV thing as to the number of PGA Tour sponsors that had significant dealings in Saudi Arabia - like I say, I can't remember the number, but it was surprisingly huge. Best they could do would be some sort of internal heave against the leadership.

Granted none of us know what will happen, but I think there will be a fudge where they re-arrange the "new" PGA Tour schedule and criteria to keep the rank and file happy, perhaps getting rid of the signature events or at least the reduced field aspect of them, maybe making it easier to fulfil your required number of events etc. Monahan might be sacrificed too I guess, maybe even Pelley if the DPWT guys get a bit uppity. Problem for DPWT is they don't really have anyone, not on the PGAT, who'd be missed.

If Rahm goes it IS huge though, there's no getting round that. He's definitely one of the bigger personalities in golf and a way bigger coup for LIV than DJ. Plenty of other super players but they're not very memorable or charismatic. Arguably he'd only be second to Rory going. I mean, Scheffler, JT, Spieth, Fowler - all fantastic players but pretty meh when it comes to moving the needle I think.

I think if another 10/15 top-ish players were to go I'd have to strongly look at ditching Sky Sports though. Some of the events are bad enough, but if we never had an event with the real top players........hmmm.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121459607#Comment_121459607

Well I was surprised at how far down Rahm was in the popularity stakes but he's not in the top ten.

Would he be anymore popular than Koepka was? Mickelson was huge and him going hardly moved the needle.

I can't see how Rahm changes anything when Mickelson and Koepka didn't. He'll just be forgotten about very quickly like the rest have been.

As regards another tour. There's rumoured to be other offers for the PGA tour to consider. If that's the case then there's big money out there to start another tour if enough of the top players feel strongly enough about it. It definitely seems like Tiger does. Rory clearly isn't happy about it either and Schauffele has made his views known too.

This December 31st deadline isn't going to happen. The DOJ have really dug their heels in and are looking at antitrust concerns. On top of that they have to hear the concerns of third parties objecting to the merger such as the 9/11 families united. I believe there's also LGBT and Women's rights groups involved too.

The players are looking for a lot of control over the running of the tour due to the secrecy that surrounded this deal.

As I said earlier, if this PGA tour deal was looking good then it's very surprising that they'd be looking to bring over new players to the other tour.

RoadRunner

Rahm 3rd most impact in the PGA tours own metrics... also consider tiger will be skipping most regular events for obvious reason.

Smells like Rahm made the decision to switch earlier but waited to collect his PIP fund (announced end of Nov) to maximise gain. He may say publicly that he's not motivated by money, but he is, just like everyone else.

blue note

Of all the people they could have targeted, he seemed like the obvious one to me. While he said he'd never go, he never criticised those who did and said that they should have been allowed into the Ryder Cup. I wonder were the tipping points;

1. That some sort of merger was very likely to happen before his move and now is almost certain. He's in the majors for the next 5 years anyway and there's no Ryder Cup next year (of course, if it's not sorted by the next one they'll be allowed to play in it anyway). So he's only going to miss out on regular PGA tour events. And for all we hear about the history of the events being so important, they're not all even that old. Some of the WGCs were invented and instantly became the biggest tournaments of the tour. Basically, the biggest events are those with the biggest purses.
2. The LIV guys performed really well in the majors. I'd say better than they would have if they'd been playing on the PGA tour all year. The notion that a 4 day tournament was going to be a problem for them was utterly daft, I'm not even going to say anything to back that up. It was just daft. But to me it looks like they were more fresh going into the majors. People said that without being battle hardened from playing week in week out against the other top golfers would hurt them, but at the same time we'd see Couples and Langer play in the Masters every year and be well able to compete. Same for Tom Watson in the Open. Having to play at that level just a couple of times a year I reckon made it possible for them to do it, whereas if they were facing that competition every week they wouldn't keep their cards.

The issue that is hardly spoken about any more is the sportswashing problem. The PGA tour is not sustainable with their increased pots, yet LIV are putting up several times that money for the players. This isn't an investment they want a financial return on, they're effectively using the golfers as lobbyists. If the golfers can make them more palatable for governments and businesses to trade with them, then it's a worthwhile investment. We all like John Rahm because he's worked hard to achieve what he has achieved, we admire him as a competitor, we like his no nonsense interviews, we feel he's one of us as a Ryder cup player. And our fondness for him is what they're buying more than anything. And it will work.

Russman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121460246#Comment_121460246

Ah I think he'd be more popular than Koepka. Maybe popular isn't the word I'd use - put it this way, Rahm and Koepka are hitting balls at opposite ends of a range, which end are you going to to watch ? Personally I think its Rahm all day long. Mickelson was big alright and had just won the PGA in fairness, but he was done in reality (just my opinion), much like Tiger is now. Yeah he might play a few events and maybe even contend on occasion, but he's not the guy any tour should be pinning their future on.

Who knows though. There's definitely an interesting couple of years ahead. The DoJ could be key in it all as you say with the anti trust stuff. The other noise I don't really think will be a deal breaker, if the LET can have the Aramco Series, I think a way will be found if it comes to it. Maybe if Aramco throw massive sponsorship at 5 or 6 "regular" events on the PGA Tour, as opposed to the signature events - the guys would pretty quickly get over any reservations they have about the leadership.

That said there definitely seems to be an unhappiness amongst the players about how things are run at present and how the deal in the summer was done. Maybe I'm too cynical, but I think its much more the players wanting a bigger slice of the pie than anything resembling a principle. Monahan's mistake was appearing to only cater for the top players with his limited field events. I'm conscious there's a separate LIV thread so don't want to veer too far away from PGAT stuff, but if you're lets say a very good journeyman, maybe not a household name, but say a solid top 60 every year on the FedEx - you might see Talor Gooch's earnings and question what Monahan is doing for you.

RoadRunner

Those who have been watching PGA golf have been part of the journey of seeing Rahm grow up into the killer he is today. A clever, powerful european, who particularly dominated on Irish/NI soil and as a player who has his own unique swing, style and temper, plays with all the fire and emotion of Seve.

Taken away from us at the peak of his powers. A great loss.

frisbeeface

As a pretty casual fan of PGA tour Rahm was my favourite player to watch. Still probably not going to get me to watch LIV if he moves though.

I do think moves like this were inevitable given the PGA tour reaction to LIV. They lost the moral high ground by jumping in bed with the PIF themselves, and the way they did it blindsiding the players made them look awful. At at time when they needed the players to have loyalty to them they instead stabbed them in the back. They also eroded their purist competitive high ground by introducing these limited field events.

That combined with LIV having a global schedule surely makes the thought of jumping ship more appealing to the non-US players in particular.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121460947#Comment_121460947

He is nothing like Seve. Seve was a superstar both as a golfer but more because of his wonderful personality. Rahm doesn't have a personality anything like that.

Tiger and Mickelson are the only two golfers in recent times who engaged fans like Seve did.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121461117#Comment_121461117

Monahan has to go and players have to be front and centre in order to regain the moral high ground. It can be done and it won't take that much work.

Trampas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121461485#Comment_121461485

Eldrick and Phil got people watching but Eldrick never engaged with fans close to what Seve did.

If Rahm goes he will be forgotten about over time by a lot of people. Has anyone really missed the vast majority of players who’ve gone to liv? Maybe at a major the ones who can get onto the timesheet it’s a bit of how will the liv players do.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121461599#Comment_121461599

Tiger didn't need to, his golf was so good and the fist pump was loved by all.

I'm in agreement with you on everything you say there.

Mantis Toboggan

Confirmed.

What a sell out!

Ohmeha

A big blow for the PGA Tour but not fatal by any means yet unless they clean out the top ranks of the tour before any merger, not many golf fans are going to be switching in their droves to watch LIV just for Rahm due to their gimmicky format, lack of prestige events/courses and all around toxicity associated with the brand