Will there be another lockdown?

seamus

seamus wrote: »

Have they? I can't find anything where Arlene Foster has mentioned a zero-covid approach. I'd be very interested to hear that she has.
You're preaching to the choir here mate. There's no-one on this thread who doesn't want an all-island approach to coronavirus. We just know it's an absolute impossibility.
If I thought there was even the tiniest chance that could work, I'd back it.

I know, with all my heart, that the unionists would immediately retreat to their bunker, say, "No, absolutely not", and accuse Dublin of attempting to annex the North by exploiting the crisis.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1236357&ved=2ahUKEwiK0suSh6LrAhVtQxUIHZ14D94QFjACegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw1IqaBeywCJ54w-V1UBNpHh&ampcf=1

Will the unionists say all those things? Yes. Should we care? No. They have endorsed zero covid, so do we. Move on and push the plan. Boris will eventually endorse it too as everyone on British Isles will want same thing.

stephenjmcd

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1236357&ved=2ahUKEwiK0suSh6LrAhVtQxUIHZ14D94QFjACegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw1IqaBeywCJ54w-V1UBNpHh&ampcf=1

That article says NI have adopted a zero covid approach, they haven't.

Nowhere does that say Arlene endorses this.

stephenjmcd

stephenjmcd wrote: »

That article says NI have adopted a zero covid approach, they haven't

I have used third party evidence.

Where is your evidence?

"Stephen said they haven't"

VinLieger

Deleted User wrote: »

I have used third party evidence.

Where is your evidence?

"Stephen said they haven't"

No you havent, that article is wrong, find an article that has the Arlene Foster, the First Minister of NI, saying they have adopted a zero covid approach.

VinLieger

VinLieger wrote: »

No you havent, that article is wrong, find an article that has the Arlene Foster, the First Minister of NI, saying they have adopted a zero covid approach.

The article is wrong but you are right.

OK?

I will believe someone on boards that has not backed up their assertion with any evidence as apposed to a newspaper article that has opposing evidence.

VinLieger

Deleted User wrote: »

The article is wrong but you are right.

OK?

I will believe someone on boards that has not backed up their assertion with any evidence as apposed to a newspaper article that has opposing evidence.

Youve backed up nothing, one article with no quotes to prove its claim is literally nothing

aido79

[Deleted User] wrote: »

We don't close anything. We control/quarantine.

For how long?

seamus

Northern Ireland is pursuing a zero-Covid approach...according to a single journalist who writes foreign articles for a US media company.

seamus

seamus wrote: »

Northern Ireland is pursuing a zero-Covid approach...according to a single journalist who writes foreign articles for a US media company.

Reputable media source.

I'm not trying to convince you.

aido79

aido79 wrote: »

For how long?

Until safe effective treatment/vaccine.

That is what the world is doing now. Some countries better than others. Delaying until scientists catch up. Which they will I have no doubt.

stephenjmcd

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The article is wrong but you are right.

OK?

I will believe someone on boards that has not backed up their assertion with any evidence as apposed to a newspaper article that has opposing evidence.

You said
Arlene Foster said NI are going with the zero covid approach.

They aren't, there's no quotes attributed to Foster, all you have is one journalist that thinks they are with absolutely no evidence to back it up.

So again do you have anything to back up your claims that NI are taking this approach or are you going to contually go around in circles with a baseless claim

bucketybuck

Deleted User wrote: »

Reputable media source.

I'm not trying to convince you.

Thats convenient, I don't think anybody else is convinced either.

That article is not a source for the claim made, and I suspect you already know it.

aido79

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Until safe effective treatment/vaccine.

That is what the world is doing now. Some countries better than others. Delaying until scientists catch up. Which they will I have no doubt.

In theory this is the best approach. In reality it is economic suicide. Do you think it is possible to close the borders not until a vaccine is found but until enough people are vaccinated to allow the borders to be opened again?

NZ have had the most success at doing it because they are one of the most isolated countries in the world but even that has failed to stop the virus entering their country.

stephenjmcd

stephenjmcd wrote: »

You said
Arlene Foster said NI are going with the zero covid approach.

They aren't, there's no quotes attributed to Foster, all you have is one journalist that thinks they are with absolutely no evidence to back it up.

So again do you have anything to back up your claims that NI are taking this approach or are you going to contually go around in circles with a baseless claim

Where did I mention Arlene Fosters name in any of my posts?

You should read my posts before posting the above.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt in that you are confused.

aido79

aido79 wrote: »

In theory this is the best approach. In reality it is economic suicide. Do you think it is possible to close the borders not until a vaccine is found but until enough people are vaccinated to allow the borders to be opened again?

NZ have had the most success at doing it because they are one of the most isolated countries in the world but even that has failed to stop the virus entering their country.

I would think countries that deal well with coronavirus will be least economically affected also. The two go hand in hand. Bad virus/bad economy

Yes New Zealand had so many advantages in the short term.

Coronavirus is not short term.

Where is the plan after the fire fighting exercise of the first three months?

Our fire was much bigger than New Zealands.

We now need to implement a long term plan along the lines of new Zealand/vietnam/austrailia/China.

stephenjmcd

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Where did I mention Arlene Fosters name in any of my posts?

You should read my posts before posting the above.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt in that you are confused.

She's first minister its all the same. Where has the first minister said this to back up your viewpoint.

The only person confused here is you thanks for the condescending reply though.

Again please link where NI are adopting this approach. Your earlier link doesn't prove anything, you've yet to provide any factual information that NI is adopting zero covid, just deflection each time.

We're going in circles here with a still unsubstantiated claim.

End point is NI has not taken on this strategy

stephenjmcd

stephenjmcd wrote: »

She's first minister its all the same. Where has the first minister said this to back up your viewpoint.

The only person confused here is you thanks for the condescending reply though.

Again please link where NI are adopting this approach. Your earlier link doesn't prove anything, you've yet to provide any factual information that NI is adopting zero covid, just deflection each time.

We're going in circles here with a still unsubstantiated claim.

End point is NI has not taken on this strategy

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiouq-OoqLrAhUmThUIHQE0Db0QFjAAegQIBBAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wired.co.uk%2Farticle%2Fzero-covid-coronavirus-elimination&usg=AOvVaw0E8nKiuNjKJ8jh0bFnN_V7


Another link above:

Article states:

"Last week, Independent Sage, a group of scientists who are publishing advice around covid-19, called for England to formally adopt a zero covid approach, which both Scotland and northern Ireland have been persuing"

I remember hearing the above maybe a month back.

How many sources do you want?

If you misquote me I am going to point it out. I think your taking things a little personal.

VinLieger

VinLieger wrote: »

Youve backed up nothing, one article with no quotes to prove its claim is literally nothing

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiouq-OoqLrAhUmThUIHQE0Db0QFjAAegQIBBAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wired.co.uk%2Farticle%2Fzero-covid-coronavirus-elimination&usg=AOvVaw0E8nKiuNjKJ8jh0bFnN_V7

seamus

Deleted User wrote: »

"Last week, Independent Sage, a group of scientists who are publishing advice around covid-19, called for England to formally adopt a zero covid approach, which both Scotland and northern Ireland have been persuing"

You see, here is the important of checking sources.

Here is the report that Independent Sage produced;

https://www.independentsage.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200717-A-Better-Way-To-Go.pdf

It's an excellent report.

However what it doesn't say is that Northern Ireland is pursuing a zero-Covid approach. What it does, however is "Both Scotland and Northern
Ireland should continue to increase their efforts until control is assured and there is, in effect, a Zero COVID Scotland and a Zero COVID island of Ireland."

If you read the entire document, this report does not claim that Northern Ireland is pursuing zero-Covid. However, if you were a journalist hastily skimming through it in order to write an article, you would be forgiven for thinking that's what it said. The report repeatedly lumps Scotland & NI together under single headings, so one could easily be misled into believing that they were adopting the same approach.

Unsurprisingly this document does say that cross-border cooperation is essential to achieve a zero-Covid island. This we know, and this we also know is not possible.

seamus

seamus wrote: »

You see, here is the important of checking sources.

Here is the report that Independent Sage produced;

https://www.independentsage.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200717-A-Better-Way-To-Go.pdf

It's an excellent report.

However what it doesn't say is that Northern Ireland is pursuing a zero-Covid approach. What it does, however is "Both Scotland and Northern
Ireland should continue to increase their efforts until control is assured and there is, in effect, a Zero COVID Scotland and a Zero COVID island of Ireland."

If you read the entire document, this report does not claim that Northern Ireland is pursuing zero-Covid. However, if you were a journalist hastily skimming through it in order to write an article, you would be forgiven for thinking that's what it said. The report repeatedly lumps Scotland & NI together under single headings, so one could easily be misled into believing that they were adopting the same approach.

Unsurprisingly this document does say that cross-border cooperation is essential to achieve a zero-Covid island. This we know, and this we also know is not possible.

The report doesn't say NI or scotland is not following zero covid approach.

Sage is like NPHET - govt advisory as apposed to policy

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiWvOOpu6LrAhU7VBUIHRGnAjEQFjACegQIBBAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F18622350.scotlands-zero-covid-strategy-best-way-forward%2F&usg=AOvVaw2EqfKIBQlW-86wVme2w4NShttps://www.wired.co.uk/article/zero-covid-coronavirus-elimination

stephenjmcd

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiouq-OoqLrAhUmThUIHQE0Db0QFjAAegQIBBAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wired.co.uk%2Farticle%2Fzero-covid-coronavirus-elimination&usg=AOvVaw0E8nKiuNjKJ8jh0bFnN_V7


Another link above:

Article states:

"Last week, Independent Sage, a group of scientists who are publishing advice around covid-19, called for England to formally adopt a zero covid approach, which both Scotland and northern Ireland have been persuing"

I remember hearing the above maybe a month back.

How many sources do you want?

If you misquote me I am going to point it out. I think your taking things a little personal.

not taking anything personal.

Your failing to grasp that NI is not currently implementing zero covid.

The sage report doesn't state that NI are following it. As another poster mentioned, read the source.

It does not say NI is implementing this approach.

We're going around in circles here, its quite clear NI isn't taking this approach despite your instance that it is, both sources completely mis quoting the sage report.

I think you know all of this

stephenjmcd

stephenjmcd wrote: »

not taking anything personal.

Your failing to grasp that NI is not currently implementing zero covid.

The sage report doesn't state that NI are following it. As another poster mentioned, read the source.

It does not say NI is implementing this approach.

We're going around in circles here, its quite clear NI isn't taking this approach despite your instance that it is, both sources completely mis quoting the sage report.

I think you know all of this

I think I will leave it there...

You have your entrenched opinions, I dont even want to change your mind.
I want you to believe what you believe.

stephenjmcd

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think I will leave it there...

You have your entrenched opinions, I dont even want to change your mind.
I want you to believe what you believe.

Likewise your believing something that doesn't actually exist in NI as has been pointed out by multiple posters.

No point in changing my mind to something that isn't currently being implemented.

Bottom line NI isn't currently implementing zero covid and your position is entrenched falsely.

You've been asked multiple times to point to any announcement that NI is implementing this and you've not, you've posted links that completely mis represent the SAGE report which I suggest you read.

stephenjmcd

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Likewise your believing something that doesn't actually exist in NI as has been pointed out by multiple posters.

No point in changing my mind to something that isn't currently being implemented.

Bottom line NI isn't currently implementing zero covid and your position is entrenched falsely.

You've been asked multiple times to point to any announcement that NI is implementing this and you've not, you've posted links that completely mis represent the SAGE report which I suggest you read.

As said keep believing what you believe..

stephenjmcd

[Deleted User] wrote: »

As said keep believing what you believe..

At this point I think your just here to wind people up.

Believe what you want to believe but the facts are out there and they don't back up your false position.

Good luck

stephenjmcd

stephenjmcd wrote: »

At this point I think your just here to wind people up.

Believe what you want to believe but the facts are out there and they don't back up your false position.

Good luck

We will agree to disagree.

Both journalists are wrong and you are right.

I'm not replying to any more of your posts on this subject.

stephenjmcd

[Deleted User] wrote: »

We will agree to disagree.

Both journalists are wrong and you are right.

I'm not replying to any more of your posts on this subject.

Yes in this case neither have actually read the SAGE report and neither have you by the looks of it.

Keep digging the hole anyway.

First poster I've had to put on ignore, a shame.

stephenjmcd

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Yes in this case neither have actually read the SAGE report and neither have you by the looks of it.

Keep digging the hole anyway.

First poster I've had to put on ignore, a shame.

I will do same.

antimatterx

What will the world do if know vaccine is ever found? We can't live like this forever.

MickeyLeari

Are independent SAGE an official UK Govt advisory group or a think tank of broadly like minded scientists?