How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

Quantum Erasure

Deleted User wrote: »

What is unsustainable is abandoning education for a year or more. If we wait until there is no risk, it will be 12 months before schools can return

12 months at least...

irishblessing

I don't believe anyone is saying we should fully abandon education.

Sigh....

Do some people seriously not read what's going on elsewhere or have family/friends living in other countries making them aware of who has implemented more common sense education models? Wtf like...

Jim Root

Blondini wrote: »

22 schools confirmed according to Facebook group.

So not confirmed then.

Quantum Erasure

kippy wrote: »

Assuming that visitor is flying in from Poland and not already living in Ireland, that visitor should isolate on arrival into the country for 14 days I believe, family member or not. They should not have contact with your or your family for that time.

Travel advice will probably be updated by then I think they're going for a Europe-wide approach

limnam

Jim Root wrote: »

So not confirmed then.

While unusual for a FB group the admin of the groups seems fairly responsible and only adds it to the list once it's either in the news or a parent provides text/letter

iamwhoiam

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I would also be extremely wary of a Facebook group about school closures or cases . I think its a dangerous and unsafe way to make known about cases in a school . We all know how mistakes and misinformation can lead to bad behaviour in some people

I, for one, an very grateful to those sharing the facebook information. It is that or absolutely nothing at all because NPHET and HSE and Dept of Education are not sharing now. I can appreciate that everything is being done to inform those parents in schools who need to be informed and that is time consuming and stressful. But the wider public have a right to the information too. Any sane person will check the facts re any school on list which affects their relatives.

Hubertj

combat14 wrote: »

letters from school posted on page, though not all cases out there recorded e.g. 4 cases in one class alone in south kilkenny as far as I know not included

at least this page is providing some info better than HSE/ Dept of Education is doing for now

There are some serious losers out there. Ever occur to you that letters could be made up? You see last week there was a recording released saying the Oliver bond flats in Dublin had been locked down?

The only place to get public heath information is from the public health experts - NPHET or dept of health etc.

Not good for mental health to believe what some randomer posts anonymously on the web.

rebel girl 15

Murple wrote: »

It’s setting a bit of a dangerous precedent though as when Covid is all over, some people will expect the same measures to be taken for all kinds of reasons. When a parent decides to take a child out for an extended holiday, they will look for work to be set online or to be linked into classes by a video link. If schools close due to snow, storm damage, no heating or water, even for a few days, online teaching will be expected. If a child is finding attending school difficult, online teaching will be suggested.
The only pupils that should be supported are those that can’t come back due to serious medical reasons, not those who are in any way not back by choice, whether that choice is to just stay at home or that choice was to travel and not be back in order to quarantine.

I'm UK based with the best performing trust in the country - we are just recording our screens and not the entire classroom. Doing what we are told to by the Trust - completely agree it is a dangerous precedent, and that snow days are not a distant memory.

downthemiddle

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Still no arguments against what I say. Don’t have a point. Attack the poster. Want me to send you on my degree, LinkedIn profile and job description?

Dick

Complain about attacking the poster and then call them a childish name.
You’re really covering yourself in glory here.

rebel girl 15

JDD wrote: »

I don't see the harm in doing that.

I don't know what it is like in Scotland, but it certainly seems here that everything will be sacrificed on the altar of keeping the schools open. So even if we had a temporary "lockdown" in Dublin, due to high case numbers, I think the schools will stay open even when restaurants, pubs and shops might be ordered to shut.

Where closing schools might be considered is in more self contained areas, like a large town. If there was a widespread outbreak in somewhere like Enniscorthy, directly linked to a number of outbreaks across a number of schools, the government could decide to "lockdown" that town, and close all the schools for two weeks. The limited geographical nature of that sort of shutdown might be more palatable to the general public. That's where your online learning would come in.

I think that scenario is unlikely though. It's more likely that there would be a four week semi-lockdown of Wexford, and the schools would stay open. The more "broad brush" kind of thing that we saw in Kildare.

Exact same in England, not so much Scotland as Sturgeon has her head screwed on properly - more about keeping people at work since they are now talking about forcing people to start working in offices again, despite many people working fine and happily from home

combat14

Hubertj wrote: »

There are some serious losers out there. Ever occur to you that letters could be made up? You see last week there was a recording released saying the Oliver bond flats in Dublin had been locked down?

The only place to get public heath information is from the public health experts - NPHET or dept of health etc.

Not good for mental health to believe what some randomer posts anonymously on the web.

suppose professor mcconkey Beaumont hospital is a loser too


'We are heading into another epidemic' warns professor

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/1163645/

downthemiddle

downthemiddle wrote: »

Complain about attacking the poster and then call them a childish name.
You’re really covering yourself in glory here.

When somebody is being a dick, and attacking your integrity, calling you a liar, while failing to address anything you say, sometimes the only course of action is to call them on it. I may be wrong sometimes, but I am honest in my beliefs and honest in my opinions, and honest in the facts that I relate here. Too much really, in that it would now be relatively easy for someone to ID me based on my posts over the past few months here.

khalessi

combat14 wrote: »

suppose professor mcconkey Beaumont hospital is a loser too


'We are heading into another epidemic' warns professor

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/1163645/

Having worked with McConkey, I have always found him to be a thoughtful intelligent individual, with measured responses, not given to hysterics. He always stood out as a really good doctor and I knew him when he was only a few years qualified.

Hubertj

combat14 wrote: »

suppose professor mcconkey Beaumont hospital is a loser too


'We are heading into another epidemic' warns professor

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/1163645/

No, he’s a public health expert. You were talking about getting your information from a Facebook group. You just made my point.

Gentleman Off The Pitch

Deleted User wrote: »

1,000,000 students, 30 per class, 33,000 classes, 22 cases related to these classes. 0.06%. In two weeks these classes will be back, and another group will be off. Probably more. But this is the way it will continue, Rolling closures of classes due to close contacts, with a proportion of these resulting in clusters

Again, it's worth remembering from time to time that there may be a little bit more at stake than pupils' attendance record when the virus comes to the school

Bobtheman

We need a blended learning plan. I think a lot of kids who switched off last time would engage this time if all schools used zoom Or something similar. A mandated national policy that would give protection against manipulation of images/recording is needed.
I take that no school has been fully shut down??

Blondini

Hubertj wrote: »

No, he’s a public health expert. You were talking about getting your information from a Facebook group. You just made my point.

24 schools now (1)


BIBLIOGRAPHY
1. Karen et al. Facebook (2020)

:pac:

khalessi

Bobtheman wrote: »

We need a blended learning plan. I think a lot of kids who switched off last time would engage this time if all schools used zoom Or something similar. A mandated national policy that would give protection against manipulation of images/recording is needed.
I take that no school has been fully shut down??

I know the kids I had who switiched off, would also be the ones toswitch off if Zoom was offered. They were lying to parents about me not uploading the work, imagine their surprise when I rang round all the parents and the kids had to own up to not bothering to check in.

Meanwhile the ones that paid attention were the ones who did in class, and carried out all the work. I chased the others till the end of the year and got some work but not to the level of the ones who normally tune in, for all bar one and his mother just said the X said he would not do it. Fair enough.

jrosen

We absolutely need a blended learning approach. However how does that work with younger kids who's parents both work? Or kids who need encouragement, or someone to be there keeping them engaged.

The idea that we can have a blended learning approach and it can be adopted easily in homes across Ireland is naive I think.

I think its necessary btw especially to continue education for those students in exam years. But I also can see the obstacles.

downthemiddle

[Deleted User] wrote: »

When somebody is being a dick, and attacking your integrity, calling you a liar, while failing to address anything you say, sometimes the only course of action is to call them on it. I may be wrong sometimes, but I am honest in my beliefs and honest in my opinions, and honest in the facts that I relate here. Too much really, in that it would now be relatively easy for someone to ID me based on my posts over the past few months here.

I couldn’t care less who you are or what your qualifications are. However your figures were inaccurate and it could be interpreted that you were using them to promote a certain agenda.

Will Yam

Blondini wrote: »

Three against one.

BULLIES :pac:

So you’re being bullied because 3 people disagree with you?

Blondini

Will Yam wrote: »

So you’re being bullied because 3 people disagree with you?

Read the posts.

I was called a Dick.

Anyway, look Willy, don't argue with me. We've been here before. It's tiresome.

downthemiddle

downthemiddle wrote: »

I couldn’t care less who you are or what your qualifications are. However your figures were inaccurate and it could be interpreted that you were using them to promote a certain agenda.

There are a million school kids in the country. The mean class size is less than 30, so I rounded up to 30 not to be accused of underplaying. That is at least 33,000 class groups. There may in fact be more pods than that but we don’t have that information. There are a reported 22 closures (not all down to kids with the virus by the way). That is 0.06% of classes in the country. In the absence of detailed information, it’s an informed estimate Based on crude data, however even if the number is 10x what I estimated, which is unlikely, it’s still tiny. My only agenda is to relate that there are only a tiny number of classes out due to children testing positive. That these are to be expected and that these numbers will grow with necessarily meaning that we have a major problem in the absence of large school clusters in multiple areas.

I related my background as the op insisted that only a maths teacher such as them could possibly understand how to calculate a simple percentage

average_runner

Bobtheman wrote: »

We need a blended learning plan. I think a lot of kids who switched off last time would engage this time if all schools used zoom Or something similar. A mandated national policy that would give protection against manipulation of images/recording is needed.
I take that no school has been fully shut down??

You obviously dont have young kids where both parents work from home

average_runner

average_runner wrote: »

You obviously dont have young kids where both parents work from home

And have barely useable broadband that would struggle to stream Netflix, never mind stream interactive classes for 2 kids, while also allowing their parents to work from home

downthemiddle

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There are a million school kids in the country. The mean class size is less than 30, so I rounded up to 30 not to be accused of underplaying. That is at least 33,000 class groups. There may in fact be more pods than that but we don’t have that information. There are a reported 22 closures (not all down to kids with the virus by the way). That is 0.06% of classes in the country. In the absence of detailed information, it’s an informed estimate Based on crude data, however even if the number is 10x what I estimated, which is unlikely, it’s still tiny. My only agenda is to relate that there are only a tiny number of classes out due to children testing positive. That these are to be expected and that these numbers will grow with necessarily meaning that we have a major problem in the absence of large school clusters in multiple areas.

I related my background as the op insisted that only a maths teacher such as them could possibly understand how to calculate a simple percentage

There are many crude calculations that can be used to make a point.
Based on your number of 22 closures in the first full week you can extrapolate that to 814 closures over a 37 week school year. That’s over 20% of schools impacted.
However this figure is every bit as inaccurate as yours. It doesn’t account for any variables. The difference in numbers between primary and secondary, the difference in the length of school year, class sizes, lulls during school holidays, exponential growth, repeat infections etc.
For someone who is so highly qualified you appear to be disingenuous with your figures. Why is that?

Marty Bird

[Deleted User] wrote: »

While my numbers were rounded, an engineer, qualified in applied physics who works in data validation may have more experience of practical applications of statistical techniques than a maths teacher who thinks a Facebook group is a good data source

Boom..

downthemiddle

downthemiddle wrote: »

There are many crude calculations that can be used to make a point.
Based on your number of 22 closures in the first full week you can extrapolate that to 814 closures over a 37 week school year. That’s over 20% of schools impacted.
However this figure is every bit as inaccurate as yours. It doesn’t account for any variables. The difference in numbers between primary and secondary, the difference in the length of school year, class sizes, lulls during school holidays, exponential growth, repeat infections etc.
For someone who is so highly qualified you appear to be disingenuous with your figures. Why is that?

Anyone who works with figures on a practical level is you work with what you have until you can refine the data. Numbers are not perfect, but the point stands, it’s a tiny percentage . Could just as easily widen my estimate to 0.06% +0.05% - 0.02%, it’s more accurate. I also believe your estimate of 20% of schools being impacted by closures over the course of the year is low. But as long as appropriate action is taken each time that is manageable, also allowing for potential localised school shutdowns based on area by area community status. I have been saying for weeks that cases will crop up in schools. Some seem to see than as justification on their position that schools should not have opened, when schools are in fact a representation of what is happening in the area.

Purplewaters

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Anyone who works with figures on a practical level is you work with what you have until you can refine the data. Numbers are not perfect, but the point stands, it’s a tiny percentage . Could just as easily widen my estimate to 0.06% +0.05% - 0.02%, it’s more accurate. I also believe your estimate of 20% of schools being impacted by closures over the course of the year is low. But as long as appropriate action is taken each time that is manageable, also allowing for potential localised school shutdowns based on area by area community status. I have been saying for weeks that cases will crop up in schools. Some seem to see than as justification on their position that schools should not have opened, when schools are in fact a representation of what is happening in the area.

With all due respect this is assuming that those 22 cases haven't spread to contacts in the class who then spread to community who then spread it further? I really think people are living in a bubble where by sending a pod or class home for a few days they think the problem is solved. That is great if it happens but everything they have told us to do to prevent this virus eg 2m distance, outdoor, limit contacts etc, none of it is possible really in a classroom so I am wondering what will happen within each school as far as cases go. I think everyone would be delighted if the cases are just isolated ones within the schools broughr in from home and never spreading but I do wonder if this will be the case. By the time symptoms show you have been contagious for a few days and then those infected have tbat same waitinf period so this is what worries me. Fingers crossed.

downthemiddle

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Anyone who works with figures on a practical level is you work with what you have until you can refine the data. Numbers are not perfect, but the point stands, it’s a tiny percentage . Could just as easily widen my estimate to 0.06% +0.05% - 0.02%, it’s more accurate. I also believe your estimate of 20% of schools being impacted by closures over the course of the year is low. But as long as appropriate action is taken each time that is manageable, also allowing for potential localised school shutdowns based on area by area community status. I have been saying for weeks that cases will crop up in schools. Some seem to see than as justification on their position that schools should not have opened, when schools are in fact a representation of what is happening in the area.

I agree that 20% is on the low side. However at some stage we will reach a tipping point and people will start agitating. The likelihood is the government will lose their nerve and there will be more widescale closures. The lack of a plan b will then come back to haunt us.
In the meantime we still run the risk of serious illness or death because of outbreaks in schools. What is an acceptable price that people are willing to pay?