How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

downthemiddle

downthemiddle wrote: »

I agree that 20% is on the low side. However at some stage we will reach a tipping point and people will start agitating. The likelihood is the government will lose their nerve and there will be more widescale closures. The lack of a plan b will then come back to haunt us.
In the meantime we still run the risk of serious illness or death because of outbreaks in schools. What is an acceptable price that people are willing to pay?

People are going to get sick and people are going to die. We have to minimise it, but we also have to try to move on. There is no guarantee any vaccine will work, so as we wait we lose many other things. What we do know is that the virus is not as deadly as we feared early in the pandemic and treatments are better and improving all the time meaning our hospital death rates have plummeted, even allowing for the age distributions. There is no acceptable price, but there is a balance

rebel girl 15

Bobtheman wrote: »

We need a blended learning plan. I think a lot of kids who switched off last time would engage this time if all schools used zoom Or something similar. A mandated national policy that would give protection against manipulation of images/recording is needed.
I take that no school has been fully shut down??

Problem is that there is too many solutions that schools have already invested time and money in. Office365, Google Classroom and SeeSaw are three that schools have invested time in. With Office365, there already a number of Microsoft Experts that could be use to train other schools, presume it is the same for Google Classroom.

Supervision of students who are at home is an issue, access to technology needs to be considered as well, as there are many areas without decent broadband. I don't think there is a universal solution.

Purplewaters

downthemiddle wrote: »

I agree that 20% is on the low side. However at some stage we will reach a tipping point and people will start agitating. The likelihood is the government will lose their nerve and there will be more widescale closures. The lack of a plan b will then come back to haunt us.
In the meantime we still run the risk of serious illness or death because of outbreaks in schools. What is an acceptable price that people are willing to pay?

I can't get over how the rhetoric has changed. People are talking about cases as if it's no big deal but the fact is it will feel a lot different if you end up getting it yourself, passing it pn to someone vulnerable etc. I think it will be OK for a few weeks besides the inconvenience of all the quarantining for colds but I think it could get really messy if schools send for example a pod or a class only home and then ot turns out tbe siblings in the other classes have also spread it. The problem with the mindset of only closing pods or classes is it doesn't account for links to other classes etc. What happens in other workplaces if there is a case? Is it just the pod they are in in work thst go home?

Purplewaters

[Deleted User] wrote: »

People are going to get sick and people are going to die. We have to minimise it, but we also have to try to move on. There is no guarantee any vaccine will work, so as we wait we lose many other things. What we do know is that the virus is not as deadly as we feared early in the pandemic and treatments are better and improving all the time meaning our hospital death rates have plummeted, even allowing for the age distributions. There is no acceptable price, but there is a balance

I disagree completely. If this is what tbe effect of schools opening is then they will need to rethink blended or online learning as is happening in America. In the 1918 pandemic I read that in america the schools closed for the most part besides a few states. It's funny how we think we have advanced so much ans yet people are now saying oh yeah people will have to die to keep schools open. It shouldn't have to be either or. I think they should be open but I think like sll other businesses they shouldn't be at maximum capacity.

Purplewaters

Purplewaters wrote: »

I can't get over how the rhetoric has changed. People are talking about cases as if it's no big deal but the fact is it will feel a lot different if you end up getting it yourself, passing it pn to someone vulnerable etc. I think it will be OK for a few weeks besides the inconvenience of all the quarantining for colds but I think it could get really messy if schools send for example a pod or a class only home and then ot turns out tbe siblings in the other classes have also spread it. The problem with the mindset of only closing pods or classes is it doesn't account for links to other classes etc. What happens in other workplaces if there is a case? Is it just the pod they are in in work thst go home?

Siblings of a suspected case should be isolating from when the parents first think it may potentially be Covid symptoms.

Jinglejangle69

Purplewaters wrote: »

I disagree completely. If this is what tbe effect of schools opening is then they will need to rethink blended or online learning as is happening in America. In the 1918 pandemic I read that in america the schools closed for the most part besides a few states. It's funny how we think we have advanced so much ans yet people are now saying oh yeah people will have to die to keep schools open. It shouldn't have to be either or. I think they should be open but I think like sll other businesses they shouldn't be at maximum capacity.

You're comparing pandemics with a gap of a 100 years between them.

Ridiculous comparison given how much progression humans have made in that time.

Purplewaters

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Siblings of a suspected case should be isolating from when the parents first think it may potentially be Covid symptoms.

In all likelihood however they have already been in lets say 2 other classes all week. So if they do have it and they are contagious then that's two more classes shut but then those could have passed it on to other siblings etc? I'm not saying every kid and every class this would happen but its unlikely siblings wouldn't both have it yet their whole class stay in even if they go home. I feel that's where the problem will lie. Its a minefield. Now if everyone acted fast and results are fast then maybe this won't be an issue.

vid36

13,000 test referrals today , double any day last week according to Paul Reid (HSE CEO) on Twitter. It is only September 7, folks at this rate we will be lucky to keep schools open until October.

Mrsmum

Purplewaters wrote: »

I can't get over how the rhetoric has changed. People are talking about cases as if it's no big deal but the fact is it will feel a lot different if you end up getting it yourself, passing it pn to someone vulnerable etc. I think it will be OK for a few weeks besides the inconvenience of all the quarantining for colds but I think it could get really messy if schools send for example a pod or a class only home and then ot turns out tbe siblings in the other classes have also spread it. The problem with the mindset of only closing pods or classes is it doesn't account for links to other classes etc. What happens in other workplaces if there is a case? Is it just the pod they are in in work thst go home?

My husband works in an open plan hot desking office where two men tested positive . Everyone else kept working.

Purplewaters

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

You're comparing pandemics with a gap of a 100 years between them.

Ridiculous comparison given how much progression humans have made in that time.

Pretty sure they were doing all the things were doing now then. In fact I actually think they did the masks faster and didn't listen to so called experts who told us not to wear them for months ans rhen suddenly to wear thrm everywhere. I don't feel we have any major advances when it comes to this virus to be honest. Other diseases yes but the whole problem is this is new and we still don't know enough. Funny I'd say in 1918 they all looked back at previous stories of other pandemic style diseases and said oh but we know more now.

Purplewaters

Mrsmum wrote: »

My husband works in an open plan hot desking office where two men tested positive . Everyone else kept working.

Did the office staff not get tested? Was it because it's spaced 2m apart?

wirelessdude01

Mrsmum wrote: »

My husband works in an open plan hot desking office where two men tested positive . Everyone else kept working.

Were any of the colleagues tested?

Purplewaters

Purplewaters wrote: »

I disagree completely. If this is what tbe effect of schools opening is then they will need to rethink blended or online learning as is happening in America. In the 1918 pandemic I read that in america the schools closed for the most part besides a few states. It's funny how we think we have advanced so much ans yet people are now saying oh yeah people will have to die to keep schools open. It shouldn't have to be either or. I think they should be open but I think like sll other businesses they shouldn't be at maximum capacity.

This is the effect of what is happening in society not the schools opening. Still the discourse continues as if it spontaneously emerges from schools. Schools are reflective of what goes on in the community not the other way around. Yes, in the absence of vigilance schools have the potential to exacerbate, but we judge done areas as being worth allowing some increased risk, for the benefits that may accrue to society. In relation to schools Vigilance is maintaining what level of the guidelines we can in each and every school and classroom in the country, it’s maintaining details of who is in what class with which teachers and pupils, it’s acting swiftly when a case emerges to ensure everyone is sent home, it’s parents immediately keeping all their kids home once there is a hint of potential symptoms. Scoops also have a advantage as we know each and every kid in each and every pod, where they we’re mmm we’re, who were their teachers etc etc. This allows far more accurate track trace and isolation than most public areas. It is very difficult to get a fraction of this information for other areas where people congregate indoors such as shops, bars, restaurants etc. If we can’t come up with a way to open schools, there is no way Bars should open, and restaurants should also be shut as it is these type of settings where untraceable community transmission is far more likely to occur

Mrsmum

Purplewaters wrote: »

Did the office staff not get tested? Was it because it's spaced 2m apart?

Well this was back in May so not sure if it would be different now. No one else was tested. They are essential workers who need to be at work to do their job. Far from being 2m apart, it is a hot desking situation as they work a 24 hour rota. Also not given as much as a mask and clean their own desk, chair etc.

Purplewaters

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This is the effect of what is happening in society not the schools opening. Still the discourse continues as if it spontaneously emerges from schools. Schools are reflective of what goes on in the community not the other way around. Yes, in the absence of vigilance schools have the potential to exacerbate, but we judge done areas as being worth allowing some increased risk, for the benefits that may accrue to society. In relation to schools Vigilance is maintaining what level of the guidelines we can in each and every school and classroom in the country, it’s maintaining details of who is in what class with which teachers and pupils, it’s acting swiftly when a case emerges to ensure everyone is sent home, it’s parents immediately keeping all their kids home once there is a hint of potential symptoms. Scoops also have a advantage as we know each and every kid in each and every pod, where they we’re mmm we’re, who were their teachers etc etc. This allows far more accurate track trace and isolation than most public areas. It is very difficult to get a fraction of this information for other areas where people congregate indoors such as shops, bars, restaurants etc. If we can’t come up with a way to open schools, there is no way Bars should open, and restaurants should also be shut as it is these type of settings where untraceable community transmission is far more likely to occur

I think the problem is also that people are so sick of the rules being so arbitrary and ridiculous aka the 9 euro meal rule. The quarantine no longer makes sense unless you are going yo a country with worse rates of this. I think people need freedom back and then the option to choose how they best protect themselves. If people are asked to have 30 or 40 contacts in work I feel its unrealistic to expect them to have 3 or 4 for another 5 months in their social life.

Purplewaters

Mrsmum wrote: »

Well this was back in May so not sure if it would be different now. No one else was tested. They are essential workers who need to be at work to do their job. Far from being 2m apart, it is a hot desking situation as they work a 24 hour rota. Also not given as much as a mask and clean their own desk, chair etc.

Sounds a bit like schools then. Masks don't seem to be provided for staff in them either. Does hotdeskinf mean you use the same desk after each orher? Feel if everyone was disinfecting that wouldn't be such an issue but then you'd have to be careful.

wirelessdude01

Purplewaters wrote: »

Sounds a bit like schools then. Masks don't seem to be provided for staff in them either. Does hotdeskinf mean you use the same desk after each orher? Feel if everyone was disinfecting that wouldn't be such an issue but then you'd have to be careful.

Some of the cases in construction after the sites reopened were due to shared computer facilities on sites.

meeeeh

Purplewaters wrote: »

I disagree completely. If this is what tbe effect of schools opening is then they will need to rethink blended or online learning as is happening in America. In the 1918 pandemic I read that in america the schools closed for the most part besides a few states. It's funny how we think we have advanced so much ans yet people are now saying oh yeah people will have to die to keep schools open. It shouldn't have to be either or. I think they should be open but I think like sll other businesses they shouldn't be at maximum capacity.

Well considering we are learning much more everyday and considering treatment and testing is much better than in March less people will die and schools will be open. The likes of you would be so busy keeping Covid numbers down that you wouldn't even notice other damage closing the society is making. Tell me how many children's futures are you prepared to sacrifice so a 90 year old lives 3 months longer than they would if they didn't have Covid?

My neighbour died last month. He was 60. He had mild hart attack and trouble breading earlier this year. In conversation with doctor it was decided it could be Covid so they had to wait for about a week before going to hospital (self isolating and waiting for a test). I'm not a doctor but I do wonder if he'd be still alive today if he got to the hospital when he needed to.

People don't die just of Covid, they die of cancer, children die of neglect, suicide, stress, orger illnesses... How many of those lives are you prepared to sacrifice so that someone on the TV can tell you that nobody died of Covid today.

Yes let's be careful by all means but don't expect those in society who are at the least of risk to sacrifice the most. Schools should stay open and if numbers start getting up there are a lot other places that should close before we close or limit schools.

Purplewaters

Purplewaters wrote: »

In all likelihood however they have already been in lets say 2 other classes all week. So if they do have it and they are contagious then that's two more classes shut but then those could have passed it on to other siblings etc? I'm not saying every kid and every class this would happen but its unlikely siblings wouldn't both have it yet their whole class stay in even if they go home. I feel that's where the problem will lie. Its a minefield. Now if everyone acted fast and results are fast then maybe this won't be an issue.

Contact tracing all over works off primary and secondary contacts. Siblings and classmates of a suspect case are primary contacts, classmates of siblings and siblings of the classmates of the index case are secondary. You maintain more vigilance around these, but once primary contacts are cleared, you can rule out secondary contacts. I believe however that teachers and parents should be made away when a child is removed from class as the are a close contact from a sibling, parent or any other situation

Mrsmum

The testers are going to be very busy this autumn/winter if every child with what are fairly common symptoms needs to be tested because obviously you never know. My nephew down the country and my neighbour's child were both tested after three days at school, one had a cough and the other a high temp. Both tested negative. I wonder how many children will end up being tested and some several times.

meeeeh

Oh and comparisons with flu are completely ridiculous at this stage. All that was written about the mistakes especially in UK where the reply was modeled on flu epidemic and people still get ideas what to do from response 100 ago to flu pandemic. Seriously? Maybe we should look how they dealt with plague in 15th century.

Purplewaters

meeeeh wrote: »

Well considering we are learning much more everyday and considering treatment and testing is much better than in March less people will die and schools will be open. The likes of you would be so busy keeping Covid numbers down that you wouldn't even notice other damage closing the society is making. Tell me how many children's futures are you prepared to sacrifice so a 90 year old lives 3 months longer than they would if they didn't have Covid?

My neighbour died last month. He was 60. He had mild hart attack and trouble breading earlier this year. In conversation with doctor it was decided it could be Covid so they had to wait for about a week before going to hospital (self isolating and waiting for a test). I'm not a doctor but I do wonder if he'd be still alive today if he got to the hospital when he needed to.

People don't die just of Covid, they die of cancer, children die of neglect, suicide, stress, orger illnesses... How many of those lives are you prepared to sacrifice so that someone on the TV can tell you that nobody died of Covid today.

Yes let's be careful by all means but don't expect those in society who are at the least of risk to sacrifice the most. Schools should stay open and if numbers start getting up there are a lot other places that should close before we close or limit schools.

I think it is dramatic to equate futures down fhe drain with missing a month or two if school if needs be. Realistically all the kids are in the same boat of that year level. Education is essential but its a bit unrealistic to think everyone's future goes down the drain if they miss some school. Sure they don't even need to catch up on things missed as they all have been i. the same boat. Education is important of course and even the social aspect and tbe childcare aspect also as they are what children are used to. No point in exaggerating the educational impact of a few months however. I don't think we as society are in a position to decide when someone's last few months are less important than someone else's either. I dont think everything should shut down to be honest but schools will be messy if too many cases start coming into them.

meeeeh

Purplewaters wrote: »

I think it is dramatic to equate futures down fhe drain with missing a month or two if school if needs be. Realistically all the kids are in the same boat of that year level. Education is essential but its a bit unrealistic to think everyone's future goes down the drain if they miss some school. Sure they don't even need to catch up on things missed as they all have been i. the same boat. Education is important of course and even the social aspect and tbe childcare aspect also as they are what children are used to. No point in exaggerating the educational impact of a few months however. I don't think we as society are in a position to decide when someone's last few months are less important than someone else's either. I dont think everything should shut down to be honest but schools will be messy if too many cases start coming into them.

I didn't say everyone. It will be mostly just disadvantaged kids. Are you prepared to sacrifice those?

Purplewaters

meeeeh wrote: »

Oh and comparisons with flu are completely ridiculous at this stage. All that was written about the mistakes especially in UK where the reply was modeled on flu epidemic and people still get ideas what to do from response 100 ago to flu pandemic. Seriously? Maybe we should look how they dealt with plague in 15th century.

Compare what you want but just interesting how society hasn't changed all that much in 100 years.

meeeeh

Purplewaters wrote: »

Compare what you want but just interesting how society hasn't changed all that much in 100 years.

But medicine and science luckily did. And science also discovered that response plan for flu pandemic proved completely useless. Among main differences is that children don't seem to spread Covid half as much as they spread flu.

Purplewaters

meeeeh wrote: »

I didn't say everyone. It will be mostly just disadvantaged kids. Are you prepared to sacrifice those?

why do you keep asking me what I'll sacrifice. I first of all haven't said schools should close however similae to meat factories they need yo take cases in one seriously or they will spread more. Let's be realistic there is no one size fits all solution to all this . More mistakes will be made and I think we are still being more reactive than Proactive in how we tackle outbreaks.

Purplewaters

meeeeh wrote: »

But medicine and science luckily did. And science also discovered that response plan for flu pandemic proved completely useless. Among main differences is that children don't seem to spread Covid half as much as they spread flu.

This could be down to changes in society during lockdown they had the least contacts.

meeeeh

Purplewaters wrote: »

This could be down to changes in society during lockdown they had the least contacts.

It could or it could be because they don't eat cauliflower. I think studies in other countries showed schools were not major spreaders unless they were mirroring what was going on in the rest of society.

s1ippy

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40044755.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Calls have been made for the HSE to establish a dedicated public health team to support schools and assist with communications when Covid-19 cases and outbreaks occur.

The calls by the Irish Primary Principals Network (IPPN) for a seven-day out-of-hours public health service specifically for schools, come as the first case of Covid-19 was detected at a primary school in Munster over the weekend.

I know three people with children in this school and two staff working there. Anyone living south of town will have a connection to it in one way or another. Sensible Cork people will be reducing their contacts as much as feasibly possible in the coming weeks to dodge this.

Jim Root

Mrsmum wrote: »

My husband works in an open plan hot desking office where two men tested positive . Everyone else kept working.

Can you imagine if entire workforce’s closed down based on a couple of positives. The economy would be finished.