Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Wanderer78

average_runner wrote: »

Always, we get over confident and never learn from our mistakes. History repeats itself.

Or maybe we don’t truly understand the complexity of our economic systems and how human behaviour intertwines with them,causing these outcomes

average_runner

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Or maybe we don’t truly understand the complexity of our economic systems and how human behaviour intertwines with them,causing these outcomes

Maybe. I think we just get greedy and the poor then suffers more

Wanderer78

average_runner wrote: »

Maybe. I think we just get greedy and the poor then suffers more

Greed definitely is an element, but I believe it's far more complex than just that, most people I've ever met, are not overly greedy, they just want a happy comfortable life, the poor will probably always suffer, unfortunately, and the disturbing truth is, there's plenty to go around

walus

sligeach wrote: »

Absolute nonsense speculation above. NPHET care about the health of the general population, that’s it. The government have to worry about finances, we're already in a hole, another lock-down would probably cripple some parts of the economy, beyond recovery. The government have gambled, are they right, well that is the question?

Speculation or not, the end product is that the government came out of this smelling roses - for the first time in a long time. And that is what I expected to happen, whatever the underlying causes. Also, the nphet task, as far as I understand, is to deal with the covid 19 only. They do not extend their analysis into looking what impact there is on the the likes of cancer patients, mental health etc. In my view the government had only one option but to reject their recommendation.
Also interesting to see how having Tony back has changed the dynamics within nphet. Within the space of one day their stance change drastically as they proposed a radical level 5. How in a group of 40 people one guy can swing a decision vote this much? The processes of their decision making must be either dysfunctional or a very narrow group of people pulls all the strings. Either way - that is dangerous.

funnydoggy

Leo saying all that is grand, but he was Taoiseach when the original restrictions were put in place. He's still a naughty boy!

NIMAN

I love how the opposition aren't happy with the gov decision.

Of course they aren't.

Had they went to level 5, would have been wrong thing to do.
To level 4? Would be wrong thing to do.
To level 3, that's the wrong thing to do.
Stay at level 2, that's wrong thing to do.

It's always win win if you are the opposition.

paw patrol

NIMAN wrote: »

I love how the opposition aren't happy with the gov decision.

Of course they aren't.

Had they went to level 5, would have been wrong thing to do.
To level 4? Would be wrong thing to do.
To level 3, that's the wrong thing to do.
Stay at level 2, that's wrong thing to do.

It's always win win if you are the opposition.

isn't that the whole raison d'etre of Sinn Fein?

_Kaiser_

funnydoggy wrote: »

Leo saying all that is grand, but he was Taoiseach when the original restrictions were put in place. He's still a naughty boy!

Leo always says what is right for Leo. That hasn't changed.

Listening to McGrath being asked about his comments on the way into Cabinet this morning, I think he (Leo) may have gone off script a bit as the media are running with this idea of a big split in the relationship between Government and NPHET

But, like a stopped clock, he's occasionally right - as he was last night.

bucketybuck

NIMAN wrote: »

I love how the opposition aren't happy with the gov decision.

Of course they aren't.

Had they went to level 5, would have been wrong thing to do.
To level 4? Would be wrong thing to do.
To level 3, that's the wrong thing to do.
Stay at level 2, that's wrong thing to do.

It's always win win if you are the opposition.

You are describing the very point of an opposition party in any government.

FintanMcluskey

Dr Jack Lambert from the Mater hospital on Newstalk, reckons the 2nd surge can be dealt with just like the 1st, said Ireland has refused to follow science regarding restrictions etc

Cant figure out the travel restrictions that were in place for the Summer.

Hes probably going to have to resign now.

Plank Kenny wants penalty points for lack of adherence, to be inforced by the very organisation he believes are not following restrictions themselves. He also cant figure out why Ireland isnt exaclty like Paris or Madrid.

facehugger99

funnydoggy wrote: »

Leo saying all that is grand, but he was Taoiseach when the original restrictions were put in place. He's still a naughty boy!

Varadkar will go whatever way the wind is blowing.

He is happy to throw Holohan and NPHET under the bus because he saw the public reaction the the Level 5 letter.

He has turned FG into SF without the terrorists.

All surface, no depth - I have zero confidence in him - it is the people who are finally saying enough is enough.

facehugger99

facehugger99 wrote: »

Varadkar will go whatever way the wind is blowing.

He is happy to throw Holohan and NPHET under the bus because he saw the public reaction the the Level 5 letter.

He has turned FG into SF without the terrorists.

All surface, no depth - I have zero confidence in him - it is the people who are finally saying enough is enough.

Listening to the radio this morning there are a lot of people not too happy that we haven't gone to level 5 so I would be careful to claim "the people" are saying we have enough - some who are ignorant, selfish or simply dont understand the seriousness of the virus spreading are but people with an understanding of the situation know full well restrictions are necessary and more restrictions than level 3 will likely be required sooner or later.

I'm a FG voter and a big fan of Leo in general but not too happy with his interview last night if Im honest.

topper75

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Plank Kenny wants penalty points for lack of adherence, to be inforced by the very organisation he believes are not following restrictions themselves. He also cant figure out why Ireland isnt exaclty like Paris or Madrid.

Has Pat K lost it in his latter years, or is he just trying a deliberately contentious rhetoric to draw listenership?

Zebra3

NIMAN wrote: »

I love how the opposition aren't happy with the gov decision.

Of course they aren't.

Had they went to level 5, would have been wrong thing to do.
To level 4? Would be wrong thing to do.
To level 3, that's the wrong thing to do.
Stay at level 2, that's wrong thing to do.

It's always win win if you are the opposition.

Are you aware that in the run up the GE Varadkar said making MM taoiseach would be like putting John Delaney back in charge of the FAI?

And what did Varadkar do after the GE? He made MM taoiseach.

ThunbergsAreGo

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Dr Jack Lambert from the Mater hospital on Newstalk, reckons the 2nd surge can be dealt with just like the 1st, said Ireland has refused to follow science regarding restrictions etc

Can you elaborate on that please?

bush

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Dr Jack Lambert from the Mater hospital on Newstalk, reckons the 2nd surge can be dealt with just like the 1st, said Ireland has refused to follow science regarding restrictions etc

Cant figure out the travel restrictions that were in place for the Summer.

Hes probably going to have to resign now.

Plank Kenny wants penalty points for lack of adherence, to be inforced by the very organisation he believes are not following restrictions themselves. He also cant figure out why Ireland isnt exaclty like Paris or Madrid.

I didnt hear this but its great to see another doctor have the balls to come out with a different opinion.

FintanMcluskey

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Can you elaborate on that please?

We didnt follow Europes lead.

We ended up being Europes most restricted country all Summer, despite hospitals being empty.

Incidently I believe we are still Europes most restricted country

RoryMac

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Plank Kenny wants penalty points for lack of adherence, to be inforced by the very organisation he believes are not following restrictions themselves. He also cant figure out why Ireland isnt exaclty like Paris or Madrid.

Kenny was waffling on yesterday asking for kids not wearing masks on their way home from school to be rounded up in paddy wagons, he has been asking for a curfew to be introduced for the last few weeks.

He has completely lost the plot on this and even Luke O'Neill has to try rein him in most mornings

Rrrrrr2

Interesting to see the economic argument at last be factored in proportionally. For once Donohoe spoke up and called a halt to this madness saying we simply can’t afford it.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/relationship-between-government-and-nphet-changed-forever-as-ministers-blindsided-by-health-experts-meeting-39592752.html

Mentions it would be more difficult to access ECB and bond market funding which is ominous

polesheep

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

Listening to the radio this morning there are a lot of people not too happy that we haven't gone to level 5 so I would be careful to claim "the people" are saying we have enough - some who are ignorant, selfish or simply dont understand the seriousness of the virus spreading are but people with an understanding of the situation know full well restrictions are necessary and more restrictions than level 3 will likely be required sooner or later.

I'm a FG voter and a big fan of Leo in general but not too happy with his interview last night if Im honest.

Yep and they are all on PS salaries or cushy pensions. The irony is that one of the big reasons why we aren't going to level 5 is to be able to pay those salaries and pensions.

Rrrrrr2

RoryMac wrote: »

Kenny was waffling on yesterday asking for kids not wearing masks on their way home from school to be rounded up in paddy wagons, he has been asking for a curfew to be introduced for the last few weeks.

He has completely lost the plot on this and even Luke O'Neill has to try rein him in most mornings

Kenny used to be such a sensible man. He has allowed his own age to completely colour his analysis on Covid 19

Rrrrrr2

polesheep wrote: »

Yep and they are all on PS salaries or cushy pensions. The irony is that one of the big reasons why we aren't going to level 5 is to be able to pay those salaries and pensions.

Sounds like it’s the principle reason- we can’t afford it. Simple as that now

Whatsisname

average_runner wrote: »

Not at all costs and remember after the last pandemic we had a boom

Has everyone forgotton we've had 3 pandemics since the Spanish Flu?

hans aus dtschl

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Interesting to see the economic argument at last be factored in proportionally. For once Donohoe spoke up and called a halt to this madness saying we simply can’t afford it.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/relationship-between-government-and-nphet-changed-forever-as-ministers-blindsided-by-health-experts-meeting-39592752.html

Mentions it would be more difficult to access ECB and bond market funding which is ominous

According to NPHET's statistical modelling we'll get level 5 regardless in a few weeks time, and it will last longer than it would have, had we implemented it now.

So it's very much a case of "one of these two is right" between NPHET and government.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Kenny used to be such a sensible man. He has allowed his own age to completely colour his analysis on Covid 19

He just falls into the same category as the people introducing lockdowns, rich old men with everything paid for and huge pensions. Lockdown's don't affect these people...really. Their blinkered view is just about keeping cases down, not actually being able to go and work and enjoying the small things in life.

polesheep

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Interesting to see the economic argument at last be factored in proportionally. For once Donohoe spoke up and called a halt to this madness saying we simply can’t afford it.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/relationship-between-government-and-nphet-changed-forever-as-ministers-blindsided-by-health-experts-meeting-39592752.html

Mentions it would be more difficult to access ECB and bond market funding which is ominous

When you read that article you wonder how Holohan can still be in his job this morning.

Rrrrrr2

polesheep wrote: »

When you read that article you wonder how Holohan can still be in his job this morning.

Hopefully he’ll go himself but these guys have such a neck and arrogance it’s virtually impossible to shift them. In any other sector if you pulled the stunt he did Sunday night you would be gone

FintanMcluskey

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Sounds like it’s the principle reason- we can’t afford it. Simple as that now

Absolutely cant afford it.

They cant afford level 3.

Ireland already has one of the worst job losses in Europe while having the best natural defense against Covid of the whole of Europe.

NPHET really screwed Ireland over, and the sooner those who cant see that have a road to Damascus moment the better

RoryMac

Zebra3 wrote: »

And what did Varadkar do after the GE? He made MM taoiseach.

Politically that was a masterstroke, Leo was in charge when the easy decisions on this had to be made, the initial lockdown was the right thing to do at the time when there was so much uncertainty about the virus.

But now that the tougher decisions have to be made weighing up protecting against the virus with trying to save the economy MM is fluffing about afraid of making the wrong move while Leo has the freedom to bide his time, read the mood of the situation and give well scripted speeches making him look like someone who can control the situation.

I'm not a big fan of Leo but he has played this very well and when he's due to take over in 1.5 years the country should be getting back on it's feet and he'll be there to take the credit

RoryMac

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Kenny used to be such a sensible man. He has allowed his own age to completely colour his analysis on Covid 19

yeah I'm a fan of his on everything else but this, he refuses to even listen to any countering opinion and is only short of demanding we go full out Wuhan style and have people locked in their houses until this passes.