1967 VW Variant.

kadman

Sounds like the universe conspiring to bring you back Jim🤣🤣

kadman

I sprayed 2 coats in total so far, and now have the panel heater in front of the bonnet drying it off.

kadman

Ideally you would want a separate clean workshop spraying area. But unfortunately thats a dream situation which I dont have. I have a very cluttered workshop with 2 vehicles in it at the moment, along with many woodwork machines, car parts, and the sons own workshop and tools. So its always going to be cluttered unless I invest in an inflatable spray booth at some time.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121193486#Comment_121193486

Kadman, when it comes to spraying, you are in an impossible position. What I have done from time to time though is to make a temporary booth with 4 x 2's and some plastic sheeting, and plenty of water on the floor. It helps with the heating part of the job too. It wont keep the finish 100 free of dust etc, but it will minimise it. Needless to say, curious guests, be they Family or friends are not welcome ( nor pets either) it should be a no-go area when spraying. Anyway, the primer surface will give you a pretty good idea of what to expect. Good Luck with it.

kadman

I have hung up large polythene sheets before to isolate the spraying area I have . And its manageable. But at the moment I have chosen to spray primer as a means of protecting the items in the winter conditions. And because I also have all the welding,grinding, cutting tools out at the same time, it just makes things more awkward.

Good thing is I am on the last item, passenger door to finish prime, so things should get handier from then on .

kadman

Remarkably the finish of the primer on the bonnet was well beyond what I would be happy with. And the bonnet and roof only will be attached to the car when I spray them. Doors and wings can go outside weather permitting. And an inflatable booth at 250 euro when they come up on donedeal is also an option.

Two things that might be helping is the car is on the lift, and when i spray the bonnet, I lift it up haigh to dry, keeping it away from the ground and the footsteps. Plus as I am spraying with less than 3 bar, it means I am not blowing spray all over creation.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121194795#Comment_121194795

Yes, that's a very fine finish on the bonnet, and all things considered, pretty blemish free too. If you get the top coats that good, you will be doing fine. All spraying, be it primer, base coat or Lacquer needs the "cleanest" dust free environment possible. But having said that, with primer you have a chance, as its going to be sanded down anyway, but you don't willingly have this option with top coats. The main problems with the top coats will occur on the horizontal panels, and I've often had to block sand bonnets and roofs to remove minute "specs", and then machine the finish back to a blemish free shine. As you said the primed panels can now be parked for as long as you like, they're protected.

kadman

Now that i am on to the second door, it was time to take off the existing door to salvage the hing leafs. I was a nightmare of a job with one hinge as it was welded in with rust. The other hinge was simple and the pin was in perfect condition which was odd. Its good enough to re use, but as I already have new ones I will be using them.

And the existing door will be stripped for the useable parts.

And the NOS door needs a good sanding to remove the surface rust, and coat with a suitable rust protection, and then sprayed.

Here we go ready for epoxy, just need to finish the top half.

And now for the epoxy. Only 1 coat as i ran low on hardener.

But one coat wasn't too bad. But it will get 2 or 3

jmreire

Will you give it a light sanding before the next primer coats?

kadman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121199775#Comment_121199775

Always do.

I would love to get my hands on the original product used by VW for sticking the rubber door seals to the door, although thats a way off yet. Any product I used down through the years was never as good. The seals on these doors are perfectly stuck. Although weather beaten, they are stick firmly stuck all the way around the door. I have used most of the available adhesives over the last 25 years, but none have come close, they all fail to some degree. Even the top of the range recommended one's are no use, even silkaflex as well as tek 7 fail to some degree.

What was it originally Jim?

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121200001#Comment_121200001

Is it not even available on the VW parts list?

kadman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121200644#Comment_121200644

It is and its called weatherstrip adhesive, and its not available in Ireland😁

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121202492#Comment_121202492

Do you know where it is available?

thereitisgone

Seems freely available in America, its a 3M product so has to be found other places too

Found Amazon germany, but its minimum 6 tubes order at a time

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/08011-sealing-profile-self-adhesive-quantity/dp/B00OPSNKDM/ref%3Dsr_1_6?crid=19Y36MSFJ4OPJ&keywords=3m+weatherstrip+adhesive&qid=1696664242&sprefix=weatherstrip+adhesive%2Caps%2C106&sr=8-6

Or Here in Finland

https://www.jarimaki.fi/Mopoauton-varusteet-ja-varaosat/Huolto-osat/Muut-nesteet%2C-liimat-ja-massat//19212/?gclid=CjwKCAjwg4SpBhAKEiwAdyLwvBqN1fW3cUMY7yH5qRibpcB0Qaah0XuYA4W6IPc7gbimmhgyH-lT5xoCCV8QAvD_BwE

Expensive stuff but i think if you have a word with someone who sells 3m products they could probably get at a more normal price

EDIT

Found this 5 tubes 103 euros

https://www.desertcart.ie/products/52743484-3-m-08008-black-super-iw-pyh-weatherstrip-adhesive-tube-5-ounce-5-pack

kadman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121204269#Comment_121204269

Looks like the stuff alright. I just need a source closer to home for 3m products. Thanks for posting.

kadman

I am starting on the rear right wing to deal with it. It has some rust damage in a couple of areas, but I dont have a good replacement, and unlikely to come across on for less than 700 euro if at all. So I will have to make it presentable enough to go on the car in the short term, and hopefully pin down one at some time in the future. The lefthand side is ok because I have a good replacement if i need one.

kadman

What you think might be a decent enough surface on an old wing, that might be suitable for 600 grit sanding to prep it for a coat of primer, could be a road to disaster if you are not careful. here on this wing you can see the OK looking top coat is sanded off to reveal a spiders web of rust below it running through the primer coat. This all needs to be removed to bare metal for the best chance of keeping future rust at bay.

And here is the left hand door hung for safe keeping until I get a chance to shoot another coat of primer on it.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121207067#Comment_121207067

Looks nice and square too!. As for the spiders rust web, I'd be taking an orbital sander loaded with 40 grit paper to that, and gradually reducing it to 180 pre primer. What's it like underneath? Still plenty of original anti-rust proofing there?

kadman

Yeah thats been done. The reason I stopped at the spiders web of rust for a picture was to show what could be beneath an ok appearance of a decent old wing surface. Had i just cleaned up the top layer of paint with 400 grit wet n dry, you could end up spraying over what you thought was a decent foundation for paint, where in fact you were covering up rust, allowing it to re appear in years to come.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121208313#Comment_121208313

Well while you are at it, you may as well do it right. Because as you have pointed out, it will not go away, and in time will make itself known again.

kadman

I have nearly finished making the repair panel for the bottom edge of the rear wing. Its in a bad way, but no replacements available at the moment anywhere. And if they do become available its 500 euro plus 200 euro for a wing that may need some repair. So its a repair on my own for the time being. I mocked up the piece and will finally dolly the bottom edge when its on

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121225879#Comment_121225879

Thats an awkward section all right, above and beyond the "normal" definition. The bumper indent doesn't make it any easier. Do you have an oxy/acetylene welder? Would make the job a bit easier if you had rather than cold shaping it. Nonetheless, its shaping up all right.

thereitisgone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121225879#Comment_121225879

Great tool you have there the red one, for following shapes

kadman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121228503#Comment_121228503

Yeah its very handy to keep on track of the panel contour. I have a larger one as well its about double the size. I would like one larger still if i could get one, but I am not too sure if they make them that big

kadman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121228015#Comment_121228015

No I never had an oxy acetylene set down through the years, it would be handy now alright. I have the piece welded in now, nearly. I just have to chase some pinholes, and a few larger as the existing metal is in a less than ideal state. If I cut out the entire rust of the wing, then the big end of the wing would be gone. So i am playing at preserving as much as i can to maintain the shape, and deal with any rust holes that appear with the mig spots. Its gonna have to do until I do get a wing. I could get the son to make a fibreglass mould from this existing wing. mmmm.

kadman

Come to think of it I could fibreglass the whole wing, and bang it back on.

kadman

I welded up the wing repair, and tomorrow will chase a few pinholes and hang the wing and then shape the bottom edge and the corner of the wheel arch and see how it looks.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121229481#Comment_121229481

I wouldn't bother with fibreglass personally now that you have that section looking so well. With it still off the car, you have full access with a hammer and dolly to shape the bumper indent. It will be fine.

Hotblack Desiato

Fantastic workmanship on show here, great thread.

I saw in some of the pics the body is on the lift with the floorpan off, but brakes, hubs etc. are still attached. So the suspension mounts onto the body? It's not a monocoque as the floorpan unbolts off but it seems it's not like the Beetle either where the floorpan was the chassis, and suspension and drivetrain mounts onto it and in theory the bare floorpan could be driven (if my understanding is correct)

I'm just wondering why they took that approach which wasn't one thing or the other.

Bogwoppit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121229217#Comment_121229217

Stick 2 long ones together!

kadman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230531#Comment_121230531

Body and floorpan and chassis are seperate. Body lifts off from all the other components, yes you could drive away the chassis and floorpan..

[img]https://i.imgur.com/XlYcdA9.jpg[/img]

kadman

Here you can see the setup of my white fastback

thereitisgone

deleted, thought the picture was this fastback and was amazed how far you had got with the bodywork

kadman

The picture i just posted is the white type 3 fastback that I have already restored and drive today. The blue variant is the type 3 estate version of the fastback, and the chassis floorpan body arrangement is identical on both cars. The body unbolts from the floorpan by removing the perimeter bolts and a few others.

The floorpan/chassis tunnel has the front beam and suspension bolted to the front end of the chassis. And the gearbox and rear suspension bolts to the rear end of the floor pan and chassis. The main spine tunnel of the chassis runs from the front beam end to the rear floorpan end. And thats the makeup. The engine bolts onto the rear end of the gearbox.

kadman

Here you can see the rear axle suspension unit, and gearbox, you can also see just behind the suspension damper, the shock absorber.

Second picture shows the front steering beam and suspension unit, as well as the steering box. You can also see the beam mounting brackets, one left and one right. Each one has 2 bolts to attache it to the chassis front position.

The steering control arms are mounted onto the end of the beam which houses the suspension torsion rods.

Here is a clearer pic of the rear independent suspension unit as it is attached to the car chassis. But the hubs and gearbox, universal drive shafts, are yet to be fitted, but can be seen on the right of the picture primed iron oxide red.

This floorpan is from the white fastback, but is an identical one to fit on a the blue variant. And the beetle is not the same as this at all.

jmreire

Pretty neat jig set-up you have there Kadman. From the pics, it seems that you separate the body from the chassis by means of straps / cables suspended from the roof? Roll out the chassis, roll in the jig? Works pretty well BTW. And you could use that jig as a datum line too, if you wanted. Once its bolted to the identical locations that the chassis / axle is bolted to, it will be 100% accurate. ( and assuming that its not an accident repair.) For Restoration work, it's fine.

kadman

The main problem I had with checking datum points on the white fastback was......................the lack of them, they just weren't there. Virtually all the bottom 12" of this car had undergone UK mot repairs. Which meant a patch on a patch on a patch, and so on and so on. The rigght hand sill alone had 7 layers along its full length of the sill. So when it was ripped off, there was nothing and all the original lines gone,

Same at the front edge of the body that sits on the napoleans hat area, and the back edge along under the seat.. And the entire floor pan edge to refer to for some indication of lines, was also gone. All rusted out. So more or less this car was repaired on the fly with referrals to pics on the pc, and images into cad programmes to measure points of reference. Overalll it worked well and i ended up with a solid body with all rusted metal cut out. But there were "WTF" moments too on the way.😁

thereitisgone

Out of curiosity i tried to find a new rear quarter wing that you are working on now

Wow you were right, as rare as hens teeth, found one in America not even sure if its correct but 500 dollars plus postage and needed a little attention even still

kadman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121235854#Comment_121235854

Not to forget parts coming in from the US attract mega amounts of duties from an post. And your wing would be in some state after being fekked around couriers possession all the way fro the US.

thereitisgone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121235873#Comment_121235873

Exactly and it wasnt the prettiest to start with, surprised its to rare, always thought the VW old stuff was more available

kadman

Beetle, baywindow, splittie parts are readily available, new old stock or new. So no problem in working on one of them. Type 3 variants, fastbacks,and notchbacks are an entirely different species. There are one or two small repair panels for small wing and headlamp repairs, as well as back wheel arch repairs. As for anything else, happy hunting.

jmreire

Not rushing you are anything like that Kadman, but I hope that all is well with you?

Hotblack Desiato

Jayz.. give the lad the chance to draw breath!

kadman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121265696#Comment_121265696

I'd say you were a slave driver in your day Jim😁

Just have to keep the cook at home happy. So I am recycling a set of wrought Iron gates to fit my own, due to wood gates passed their sell by date.

And then on the 18th just gone I went down to Charleville to celebrate my 68th birthday with all my relatives from Liscarroll and visit the old walls castle park to reminisce on my spending some time growing up there.

Hey Jim I will be back to work on Monday, and while we are at it I think I am long overdue for a rise, considering someone is trying to sell me a VW convertible for a resto🤣

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121266316#Comment_121266316

Re salary increase Kadman. Could not agree more with you, and for sure I'll support you. AdMin is down the corridor, second door on the left ( make sure that you knock...they are notoriously jumpy people) Let me know how you get on, OK? I feel that I'm due an increase as well....😏

kadman

As you are the "official certified , documented VW expert" I think a recommendation from you to get a massive increase in denaries for me would carry a lot of weight in negotiating more muns🤣🤣

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121270445#Comment_121270445

Consider it done !!! I've sent a memo to Administration, with glowing references to your workmanship and attention to detail!!! Let me know how you get on, OK?

PS, you owe me a beer....belay that. You owe me several beers, and a brandy chaser or two......😁😁😂

kadman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121276463#Comment_121276463

Hey Jim, you are starting to sound like a ganger from a building site in the Uk from the 50's and 60's. Meet me in the pub for your wages, and then fill me full of drink for the night. Thats where me rise has gone. fek off, there is plenty of work elsewhere😂😂😂

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121277181#Comment_121277181

I've lived and worked in many Country's over the years, and believe me, the "Ganger" practice is alive and well. And in some very so called "respected" organizations too!

New Home

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121277181#Comment_121277181

I'll double whatever you're currently paying yourself for the restoration. So, I think you owe me a few thousand. You're welcome. 😁