1967 VW Variant.

kadman

I am sanding the two front wings to bare metal, and going to roll on a coat of epoxy primer and see how that goes. It will save me spraying it which is environmentally potentially more harm to me than a roller. If it works well, then all wings, front boot and roof will get a coat of epoxy before the winter. Mainly due to the fact that epoxy is the only primer thats waterproof.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121144670#Comment_121144670

Really looking good now!!

jmreire

Very first job, first day of apprenticeship, sanding down two Beetle wings, and making my first mistake too! Went to lunch without drying the wing, and by the time I got back, there was a very fine film of rust on the exposed metal. Back to square one sanding them down again by hand, using 180 grit sandpaper and water. I've never heard of using a roller to apply primer, but as they say, you live and you learn. Will it present any problems when it comes to levelling it to take the sprayed on coats? Because, I've only ever sprayed on primer, then sprayed on a light guide coat ( any colour except red) onto the primer to make sure that every inch of it was rubbed down smooth to take the top coats.

MrCostington

Must be very satisfying to be spraying the stonechip after all that hard work!

Anyway, I just logged on to mention a parts supplier, you probably already know them, but in case not.

www.mecatechnic.com Just got an email from them this morning with a subject line of "Restoring your VW? This email is for you !" and in it it says "Together with our European partners, we have launched the production of parts that are no longer available" so maybe they are making a push on VW parts. They are French so no problem with customs etc.

I got a wing for my Merc from them, it was pretty good considering it was 1/4 the price from MB. If you are getting a panel, make sure to tell them to pack it well, mine came dented and was replaced no problem, well packed second time.

kadman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121145776#Comment_121145776

I have dealt with mecatechnic and found them to be a great parts supplier for vw.. I must check in again to see the new lines of vw stuff. Thanks for the headsup

kadman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121145570#Comment_121145570

Very therapeutic I find hand sanding metal. But like you say, it cant be left for long unprimed. Flash rust is a quick process that happens in minutes rather than hours. As I wont be topcoating colour anytime soon I want to have a waterproof layer on it to protect it until i get top coating. And the industry standard now is epoxy primer. Many are paint and roller applicable, as well as sandable. So I am going to try it on one wirng when I am properly setup with panel heaters ect. The wing is of and i spent all day yesterday with a hammer and a dolly taking out all the dings and a few bad creases from the front nudge it had. It now looks like a new wing. So if after the rolling I am not happy, then its easy dealt with.

Watch this space

kadman

https://youtu.be/ACK6gh5RBOY?si=4hx8C6CN_YgXd4GN

kadman

https://youtu.be/ACK6gh5RBOY?si=4hx8C6CN_YgXd4GN

Here is a roll on epoxy primer method.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121145776#Comment_121145776

Interesting and usefull site, thanks for posting,

jmreire

I have never used this, and its pretty new to me. I'd say that its a good product all right, I had a mental image of a result similar to the finish you get from shutz after its sprayed on, the finish is very orange-peel like, and definitely not suitable for the external paint finish. But this roll on finish seems to have some kind of self-levelling property's? And I'd say that a good guide coat is essential to preparation for the top coats, so plenty of sanding. I presume that the thinner also contains the hardener, so its a two-pack product? I would definitely be in favor of that. ( While you intend to clean down to bare metal, this won't apply of course, but when painting over any old previously painted surface, a two-pack primer would be essential to prevent the old paint bleeding through) Personally, I'd prefer to spray it on ( but then I'd have been using a dedicated spray booth) Looking very promising at this stage to be even speaking about the finishing process. Its a milestone..🙂

kadman

Looks good, and i cant wait to try it. Of course if I dont like it, then I can go back to spraying no problem. I remember the shultz, and would not have it in the workshop, as there are too many superior products to chose from. Which is half the problem, as its hard to chose one. I remember many years ago back in the day, which you probably remember , a product called brushing belco.

It was a cellulose based product that was brushed on , and needed a lot of wet and dry sanding, but gave a great finish. And because it was brushed on, you had no fear of sanding through the finish. I imagine you have used it. I want to get an epoxy coat on it to protect it going into winter.

kadman

I spent yesterday morning dressing out the second of the front wings with a hammer and dolly. The two front wings had a lot of dings and a few bad creases from its heyday, and looked very poor. The original german metal has absolutely not a single spot of rust anywhere on the wings which is great.

And they now have had a great facelift, and will require no filling at all anywhere. And hammer and dolly work is so rewarding to see a new looking wing emerging from a beaten up example. And then the sanding down to bare metal and epoxy primer.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121151369#Comment_121151369

No, as a matter of fact, personally, I've never used any brushed on paints, but I've seen professional coach painters use them and it was a fine job too. But that was a whole different ball game, different paints, and even brushes. And what amazed me was to see a professional sign painter putting coach lines on the side of a long bus, including the firms logo, all free hand. The line ran the length of the bus, was about 3/16" thick, and it ran perfectly straight the whole way.

Regarding the Schutz, while now you have a range of far better under body rust protection, it was all that was available at the time, 60's/ 70's / 80's, and it was used only for under body anti-rust protection, because the thinners used in the cellulose paints would soften the Schutz and cause it to bleed black onto what ever surface it had managed to get on to. But even back then the use of cellulose was dying out, and two-pack paint was becoming very popular. Of course, absolutely you are doing the right thing coating the two wings with the epoxy for the winter. Now you can store and forget about them until you are ready

kadman

I dressed 99% of the dings out of the wings, except for a small one where the headlamp bowl restricts access to tap it out. I then rolled on a coat of epoxy primer to see how it went. Rolled on very well and evened out quite nicely. Kept to one coat until I had a chance to examine the finish. Finish is slightly textured, but nothing serious. It rubs down nicely with dry 400 grit wet and dry. And should be excellent when allowed time to cure, and i expect a great result if I do sand it to a better finish. But considering I will be applying 2 or 3 coats of high build primer, it might not be necessary to sand it at all. I expected it to take a few hours to dry, but it was touch dry with no forced heat in less than 15 minutes. Which is a great result.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156363#Comment_121156363

They are looking really well now. Always nice to see to see primer appearing on the job. Hard to tell the kind of finish from the pic, but I'll take your word for it. Personally, in a situation like that, I'd always sand down as much as I could before applying further coats, and especially if there's even the slightest orange peel effect on the surface. Plus, as they will be in storage for a few months now, aside from further sanding to give a key to the new coats, it also insures that the existing primer is perfectly clean ( I know they will be well washed before spraying, but even so) Is there any chance you could take a close up pic of a part of the wing which is the most smooth, and one where its at its "roughest"? This is my first time seeing roll on primer in action... LOL😎

kadman

I picked the roughest spot I could find on the first coat.. And it ands 100% smooth with water and wet'n'dry with 600 grit. And now that its primed I wont be touching it again until I am ready for hi build and finish. It will do the job nicely.

kadman

I will post a smooth pic tomorrow.🤣

kadman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121157267#Comment_121157267

Here are two pictures of the rolled on epoxy. One shows a close up of the epoxy coat straight from the roller and unsanded. The other shows the surface after 1 minute of light wet sanding. Its on of the best primer coats I have used, and most importantly is its water proof. So after coating in epoxy I can leave it there until I am at the finishing stage for these removable panels.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121157942#Comment_121157942

The sanded down section is very acceptable finish for the follow on primer coats. And it goes without saying that its protective capabilities are 100%. From the un-sanded sample, just a thought. In the video you provided, it shows where he is opening the tin and stirring it, and the "thick" stuff can be seen coming up from the bottom, where it gradually thins out. The results of this can be seen in the un-sanded bit, where there are "Lump's" in the finish, so to speak. In the paint shop I worked in, we did all our own paint mixing, and had a bank of electrical paint stirrers, which were switched on first thing each morning, and several times throughout the day, and of course, for at least 15 mins before actually mixing any paint for a job. The result was a very even mix, no lumpiness of any description, and perfect "flow". I wonder if a paint stirrer attached to a drill, and used for a few mins in the can, would the end finish be better?

kadman

Worth a shot for sure. Any agitation of the can for a few minutes before use, is always going to sort out the lumps. My can was very lumpy and I stirred it for a bout ten minutes before I used it. And I plastered it on heavy which was grand , and i noticed if I ran back over it, then it got textured. But its job at the moment is to protect it from moisture for the winter. Job done

jmreire

Just saw this add on Facebook, and thought of you Kadman,,,,

€5,000 1969 VW Squareback Nenagh (facebook.com)

kadman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121166377#Comment_121166377

You are a bit too late i'm afraid. About 15 years. I looked at that car many years ago with a view to buying it. The owner then wanted 3500 for it. I knew then it needed major body off resto, which he said it didn't. Anyway I offered him 1250 for it due to the work. he said he could bring it to Germany in a day, and sell it there, as is, for 35,000 due to its rarity. I said away with ya. And left it there.

I was surprised to see it advertised a few months ago, in bits, and the asking was 5500. Its as rough as a badgers arse, and needs as much work as the one I am on now. Apart from the fact its in bits and you dont know whats missing, so good luck sourcing that. I dont know whether the current owner is the guy I tried to deal with years ago, but I think not. I was in contact with the current owner to see if I could get a buyer for him for the whole car. No one on the club was interested in it at all. Type 3's are a hard sell here for some reason, but the best car vw made in my opinion. Even as a parts car now its not worth a whole pile, and its going to be hard to find someone as crazy as me to restore one🤣

He had a better chance when it was in 1 piece, could have been done as a rolling resto. I wont be queuing up for it

Maybe you could be tempted out of retirement Jim😁

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121167233#Comment_121167233

Yes, I remember you speaking about a car before ( but didn't realize that this was the actual vehicle) so practically speaking, ye are old friends!!!!🙂 But as for me taking on a resto now, not going to happen, and even if I were, it would not be resto started and abandoned by some one else, for sure !!! No, watching you on a daily basis fills my resto urges completely, and I don't mean that in a negative way!!! 😎

kadman

I just put a coat of epoxy primer onto the right hand door, outside. Between the showers, furiously. It dried well with the panel heater in front of it, and its a better result than the roller, but I expected it would be. $ parts primer to 1 part hardener and 25% thinner, gave a nice mix for the epoxy with the air pressure at about 40lbs psi. Door is protected now, and the new hinge pins arrive tomorrow for fitting, so the door stands a chance of getting marked, but thats no problem because i intend to do a few coats of primer, then high build primer. So all good.

kadman

Spray finish was obviously better than a roller. So weather permitting I would opt for spraying outside. failing that its a roller inside until the wings doors and front boot are in primer.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121170689#Comment_121170689

Lovely, the more primer I see, the better I like it !! Most important thing now when it comes to spraying or rolling on the primer is that the panel's /wings etc. are warm to prevent moisture forming underneath the paint. Otherwise, going well !!!😎

kadman

I pre heat the panels and wings for about 20 minutes with a panel heater before i spray them , and keep the heat on them for 20 minutes after, so they are touch dry . At the moment I have another door to do, and the front bonnet. Then all the metal will either have original paint or new primer on it. And hopefully rust will be banished from all the pieces that i am currently working on.

kadman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121166377#Comment_121166377

Now that i look at it, someone has fucked up the registration. The body style is the later 70's facelift model. The 69 was the earlier body type with the sharknose bonnet as this 67 is. Probably a cockup in the NCT office all those years ago when it was first registered coming into Ireland.

New Home

Kadman, if they hadn't picked Marisa Tomei as car expert for My Cousin Vinny you would have been a worthy contender.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nGQLQF1b6I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7YoxrKa4f0

kadman

No way I could match Maris's good looks. I think the Judges face would be a closer match🤣

kadman

I received my new hing pin set from Air Cooled Technology in Galway this morning. Superfast turn around of 3 days from order to door. Perfect result. The existing pins were well rusted and worn, so needed renewing. I had to drill them out, clean the existing barrel part of the hinge, and shim it up with 0.01 shimstock. You know the stuff Jim, it was in every decent garage back in the day, when mechanics actually worked on and repaired items in a car, instead of replacing with new parts.

Re assembled and put back on the door, they work beautifully, fimr and even opening, not too tight, and no stiff points. Its all the little stuff that takes time. But a nice closing door is a true feel of a nice car... How many times do we remark on a classic car how well a door shuts.

Gremlinertia

Oh a good door close forgives a multitude, nothing more satisfying on an older motor. Off to utoob or somewhere for a collection of just that..

kadman

I would say its a fair bet that anyone who has owned a beetle sometime in their life will remember , slamming the fek out of the drivers door to close it, and keep it closed. You would be surprised at the weight of a fully loaded classic vw door. Fully loaded then its a two man job to lift, hold, and fix the door. Unless of course you have the manufactured door holding jig, which I imagine exists. Jim might fill us in there.

Door only without anything else is still tricky to refit, but just manageable by one person. And then the correct German seals make the door. Spurious seals are sponge like rubbish, and have a very short lifespan, months as opposed to years. And the other end of the scale for seals are ones that are more like plastic than rubber. very hard and unforgiving, and you would want the muscles of Arnie to close the door against it.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121171780#Comment_121171780

Kadman, here's a link to the definite identity of each Variant model, and they're identified by chassis Nr.. Hope it will help.

VW Type 3 specs: Fastback, Notchback and Squareback (Variant) (aircooledcommunity.com)

jmreire

Be they Beetle or Variant, or in fact door fitting in any make of car would be a 2 man job, and that includes a bare door, without any fitting's. One to hold it in position while the other positions it and bolts / screws in the hinges. In the case of hard to close VW doors, that happened a lot in older cars, where the pins wore as you mentioned, and the door dropped. Also in very old cars the bottom of the pillar, where the hinge anchored, would rust and cause the door to drop. The other hinge problem occurred in cars where the passenger door was rarely opened, and the hinges would seize, and yes, that happened a lot, believe it or not. While I've used jigs in many other types of vehicles, I've never had to use them on VW hinge pillars. The center line measurements would be enough, and that would be enough to re-align the pillar, and thereafter, the door itself. But then again, while the principles would be the same, crash repairs and Restorations would be different in many ways.

kadman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121176171#Comment_121176171

Handy little article of type 3 facts, I haven't read it for a while. I see the long bonnet was introduced in 69, which meant any car with that update would have been registered in August 69 as a 70's vehicle. So my query on the 69 reged squareback with the long bonnet should be a 70 as I thought.

kadman

Now that I had the hinges rebuilt with new pins, I took the opportunity to hang the door to check the shut lines around the door, so as to confirm the positioning of all the components in the body shell, heater channels, and external cills that I welded in.Gap at the door head is nicely lining up, as is the lockstile gap. Door gap at the windsceen slope is perfect for another tweak to increase the gap slightly. I have fitted a .5mm shim on the bottom hinge to give me what I have now, which is great. Normally VW KD assembly had a habit of not getting great door shut lines. But this one is very good considering the work done around the ope. I am well chuffed with it.

Looking at it now its going to be very easy to get a nice door shut when I get that far. The original door had some serious rust all along the bottom of the door, and the skin had seperated due to the rust damage. Best result going forward is to replace the 67 door with a NOS 67 door manufactured in the same year. Win Win.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121177833#Comment_121177833

In case you need, the roof drip rail over the door can be adjusted slightly with a level block of timber, and a 4 lb hammer, tapping it and moving it slowly along the length. Do you have a pic taken standing back a bit to show the whole door, and a bit of the adjoining panels? The MIG welds look very good on the sill panel.😊

kadman

No full pic at the moment as both front and rear wings are still off, so not lining up with any other panels. Yeah the plug welds worked out ok, just need to grind them off.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121178821#Comment_121178821

Yeah, the welds look like they got plenty of bite and penetration. They'll be secure even after grinding.

kadman

And here is the rusty bonnet that i sanded today and

treated with rust treatment for later epoxy primer coat.

The last picture shows a close up of the rusted pitted spots turning black from the convertox.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121187081#Comment_121187081

Time was when we encountered rust pitting in the metal ( as in the pic) and after treating it, and then priming it, any imperfections were treated with a paste call "Stoppers" , and when it had hardened, would have been sanded down level with the surface, and then a second priming. I guess that it has long been replaced with something better for filling in micro imperfections?

kadman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121187206#Comment_121187206

Very same procedure is going to take place on this bonnet, the only difference being a more modern filler material being used. You cant improve on time tested methods. Old school all the way for me. Name is still the same , stopper, just either resin based which is 100% waterproof, or epoxy, or polyester. Spoiled for choice. I find the old fibre glass resin is great as well in these circumstances. Current priority is to get a coat of epoxy on it to protect it against rust. Then I can "stopper" on top of the primer.

The great thing about new types of materials is either you can fill before or after priming.

This morning the plan is to look at the passenger door which I know is in good order, just to take a long horizontal full length crease out of it with a long panel beaters slapper. A nice therapeutic job.

kadman

I decided against using the existing door, due to some superficial degradation along the base of the door, which I could fix, but I have a NOS door of the same vintage, 1967. So why not use it I ask myself.

So plan is to remove surface rust, and treat any rust marks with a convertor, epoxy mastic it. And put it away until I am ready to high build primer it and finish.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121189681#Comment_121189681

Yes, and if I understand you right, you won't have to use the slapper on it........LOL....🤣

kadman

As I am using a NOS door, I will be removing 1/2 of the hinge from the existing door, and reusing it on the NOS door. If the p

ins are anything like the 2 removed from the drivers door, they will need removing.As you can see from the pic the two pins are rusted, and the new pins will make a major difference to the door staying in the correct position when closed.

The new pins are listed as original beetle pins standard size. But the online catalogues for the pins say they wont fit the 67 variant. But as you can see they are a perfect match, except for the rust.

kadman

The NOS door was stored somewhere by the previous owners way back that allowed water to cover part of it. So I started off having to remove the surface rust, and convert any of the rust marks with the appropriate rust convertor or sealer. Doors are no longer made, and becoming more and more sought after. I will keep the original doors and repair them some time in the future.

After a brief period of sanding with a variable speed disc sander and 60 grit discs especially for metal, i then finished of with emery discs of 10 grit, and half the door is done now, the left hand side of the bottom half has been sanded with both discs, and the right hand of the bottom half only with the 60 grit, and the second half tomorrow.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121191521#Comment_121191521

Looking remarkably straight and damage free. The surface rust, I wouldn't be too worried about it, and it wont present any problems for you. The pins look identical too ( except for the rust as you mentioned) So, looking good.!

kadman

Just spraying the front bonnet this morning with a coat of epoxy to keep it in good order for finishing later on. Never realized the lamp was a s close to me when i moved around to the front, and collided with it going backwards, while I was spraying. This left me with 2 bad runs, but it doesnt worry me as I will be sanding any way for more coats, so i can pick that up on the way.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192574#Comment_121192574

A light guide coat, and 600 grit and a rubbing block, and your good to go. Believe it or not, but I still have the same black rubbing block that I had when I was working. It was in my tool box the day I left, and its still there. I came across it a few days when I dragged the box out from its hiding place, under the bench. Its full of pre-metric sockets and spanners and that was the size I was looking for. 11/16th to be exact.