Covid 19 Part XX-26,644 in ROI (1,772 deaths) 6,064 in NI (556 deaths) (08/08)Read OP

pjohnson

pjohnson wrote: »

Unions wouldnt be that stupid to try and let people have a 2 week paid holiday.


If you want to travel then do but accept the consequences of travel. Be an adult. If you want Holiday then budget for two weeks of no pay, if you cant afford it then don't go on holiday?

It’s a different calculation if you’ve already paid for the holiday though

polesheep

pjohnson wrote: »

Unions wouldnt be that stupid to try and let people have a 2 week paid holiday.


If you want to travel then do but accept the consequences of travel. Be an adult. If you want Holiday then budget for two weeks of no pay, if you cant afford it then don't go on holiday?

But, again, what if it is a green country?

pjohnson

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It’s a different calculation if you’ve already paid for the holiday though

Not really.

Can you afford the two weeks without wages or not?

The holiday money is already spent from your balance. You need to decide if you can afford to miss 2 weeks wages.

Plumbthedepths

polesheep wrote: »

Since when has any union leader represented the members? Seriously, they play along until they get their feet under the table of a government quango.

Public sector unions are far more militant than their private sector counterparts.

polesheep

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Public sector unions are far more militant than their private sector counterparts.

When it was announced, one of the larger PS unions had no issue with it.

podgeandrodge

Eod100 wrote: »

Public servants have been told the same even people already working at home.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40016498.html

The public servant rule makes no sense. You have to take 2 weeks leave or unpaid to isolate at home even if you normally work from home? Why stop you working? I'd understand if they had to attend the office obviously.

Plumbthedepths

polesheep wrote: »

When it was announced, one of the larger PS unions had no issue with it.

There was no green list announced at the time.

Speak Now

Gibraltar, Monaco and San Marino are in the green list, they must have missed Vatican city!

cnocbui

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you have a link as have yet to hear of such a case

This isn't the one I was thinking of, but it will do. The other was more anecdotal so would have been derided automatically.

Sherry Wellman, 56, of Youngstown, Ohio, and her doctors had assumed it would last longer than two months.

After an initial positive test for the virus in March, two additional COVID-19 tests in April were negative. It was welcome news to Wellman, whose job as a nurse required her to have two negative tests before returning to work.

But a month later, she had to go to the hospital for chest pains, and was tested again.

The physicians "ended up testing me for COVID just for the heck of it," Wellman said. "Sure enough, it came back positive. They were stunned."

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/i-cannot-get-again-it-possible-get-reinfected-coronavirus-n1233667

And her is another case: https://www.chiangraitimes.com/thailand-national-news/infected/

A woman in Northeastern Thailand has been re-infected with the Covid-19 after having been cured of the virus in March. The woman, 38, had returned from overseas in March and was found to be infected with the Covid-19 coronavirus. She was admitted to Hospital in Bangkok and recovered, then decided to return to her hometown.

However, between April 3-5 she became sick again and went for a test. The result showed that her throat was infected with the Covid-19 Coronavirus, Asia One reports.

Thailand isn’t the only country experiencing this phenomenon, on Friday, South Korea reported that 91 coronavirus patients they believed to have recovered from Covid-19 tested positive for the virus again.

And another:

Japanese woman reinfected with coronavirus weeks after initial recovery
The woman, a resident of Osaka in western Japan, tested positive on Wednesday after developing a sore throat and chest pain, the prefectural government said in a statement, describing her as being in her 40s. She first tested positive in late January and was discharged from the hospital after recovering on Feb 1, according to the statement.

The health ministry confirmed the case was the first in Japan where a patient tested positive for coronavirus for a second time after being discharged from hospital, the Nikkei newspaper said.

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/japanese-woman-reinfected-with-coronavirus-weeks-after-initial-recovery

Strangely, it nearly always seems to be women.

Plumbthedepths

Speak Now wrote: »

Gibraltar, Monaco and San Marino are in the green list, they must have missed Vatican city!

For Monaco fly to Milan hire a car. For San Marino just go to Italy. Gibraltar other than a large rock and a few monkeys feck all there even in the non covid times.

Arghus

polesheep wrote: »

Nope. Some people wouldn't have any annual leave left. Therefore it will be two weeks at their own expense. Most people couldn't afford to lose two weeks wages, so they have no choice but to cancel their holiday and not travel. It's an underhanded way for the government to say "You cannot travel".

Yes, it'll be two weeks at their own expense, but it is still their decision. Holidays are not essential travel.

And they always have the option to holiday at home.

What Username Guidelines

cnocbui wrote: »

This isn't the one I was thinking of, but it will do. The other was more anecdotal so would have been derided automatically.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/i-cannot-get-again-it-possible-get-reinfected-coronavirus-n1233667

And her is another case: https://www.chiangraitimes.com/thailand-national-news/infected/



And another:

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/japanese-woman-reinfected-with-coronavirus-weeks-after-initial-recovery

Strangely, it nearly always seems to be women.

I wouldn't bother finding sources, the argument will go from "there's no evidence" to "that's only a few cases out of millions" to "probably faulty tests" to "probably still recovering months later" argued by the same people that say "there's no evidence of long-term illness" :rolleyes:

Eod100

podgeandrodge wrote: »

The public servant rule makes no sense. You have to take 2 weeks leave or unpaid to isolate at home even if you normally work from home? Why stop you working? I'd understand if they had to attend the office obviously.

Only thing I can think of they're using as a deterrent or getting people to use up annual leave allowances so they don't carry them into next year.

froog

the green list is the dumbest idea i've seen yet.

"hey guys you really shouldn't travel but if you do, go to these places, they're great!"

Eod100

froog wrote: »

the green list is the dumbest idea i've seen yet.

"hey guys you really shouldn't travel but if you do, go to these places, they're great!"

The way Donnelly was out explaining it, it sounded like they wanted tourists from those countries to visit Ireland and Irish people to stay here and spend their money. Trying to have their cake and eat it

ShineOn7

Just half heard something on the news on an Irish radio station there

"Something something has increased 55% and is thought to be a worrying trend in Ireland"

Can anyone fill in the gaps?

ginoginelli

Arghus wrote: »

So fcking frustrating watching the news.

Showing clips of Richard Boyd Barrett banging on about confusion and how it's like a "set of traffic lights" with both the green light and the red light on at the same time.

No, it isn't. How does he not get it. The advice is clearly not to travel, but fortunately we live in a state where the government doesn't have the powers to keep us all on the island against our will, they can only advise. A green list isn't a signal to go on holidays to these countries. And then RTE compound it by talking about it as if it is. Why, why is there so much dumb?

Rte have behaved atrociously through out the pandemic, they have created the confusion on this issue and many others throughout -masks etc-. It seems they go for the lowest hanging fruit everytime, with little thought or care to the damage their cheap headlines, and gutter journalism, does to the publics interpretation of the disease.

Onesea

From accros the pond in the uk
They've retracted their figures from 45k to 29k.

A death rate of 0.0024% by THEIR admission.

We still know that is a lie as their tests are flawed and STILL cannot isolate covid19 from the rest of the Corona family.

However, also by their own admission, only 1379 deaths without pre-existing conditions - out of a population of 57million!

Twice as many people die a year from falling over! Shall we just ban any movement at all?!

That's a death rate of 0.0001%. And we shut the world down.

Even more crazy is the death rate of under 60 with no pre-existing conditions which is 0.000006%

1 person in 41,000 people with no KNOWN underlying conditions has died of covid!

1 person in 138,000 under 60 has died of covid!

And that is even with their flawed tests and rigged results.

We have the whole world bending over to their tyranny when you are:

10 times MORE likely to fall down the stairs

25 times MORE likely to be hit by a car

327 time MORE likely to get food poisoning

You are only 10 times more likely to die from covid than be hit by lightning!

pjohnson

Hearing of the pubs breaching guidelines makes ya wonder what other rules these scuzzy places dont bother following?

cnocbui

Eod100 wrote: »

The way Donnelly was out explaining it, it sounded like they wanted tourists from those countries to visit Ireland and Irish people to stay here and spend their money. Trying to have their cake and eat it

A bit like with VRT. The EU is supposed to be a common market, but don't worry, the Irish government won't let that minor detail get in their way.

Arghus

froog wrote: »

the green list is the dumbest idea i've seen yet.

"hey guys you really shouldn't travel but if you do, go to these places, they're great!"

That's not what the green list means.

cnocbui

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Just half heard something on the news on an Irish radio station there

"Something something has increased 55% and is thought to be a worrying trend in Ireland"

Can anyone fill in the gaps?

Fear of tourists.

polesheep

Arghus wrote: »

Yes, it'll be two weeks at their own expense, but it is still their decision. Holidays are not essential travel.

And they always have the option to holiday at home.

It's disingenuous to say that it is their decision if their 'public' employer is taking money from them for going.

As for holidaying at home; I did that last year and had to have a second holiday abroad as I was so disappointed with the home one.

cnocbui

Onesea wrote: »

...

However, also by their own admission, only 1379 deaths without pre-existing conditions - out of a population of 57million!
...

OMG! How have they managed to hide the deaths of 10 million people? :eek:

Miike

Someone last night asked about epidemiological reports related to influenza over previous flu seasons. I can't remember who:

Influenza 2018/2019 - Report

Influenza 2017/2018 - Report

Influenza 2016/2017 - Report

Of note, these are the annual reports. Weekly epidemiological reports for each season are archived and finding each one is a pain in the hole.

cnocbui

polesheep wrote: »

It's disingenuous to say that it is their decision if their 'public' employer is taking money from them for going.

As for holidaying at home; I did that last year and had to have a second holiday abroad as I was so disappointed with the home one.

The right to travel is in the Irish constitution. I would find it odd if a court would find that the government can penalise someone for exercising a constitutional right.

pjohnson

polesheep wrote: »

It's disingenuous to say that it is their decision if their 'public' employer is taking money from them for going.

As for holidaying at home; I did that last year and had to have a second holiday abroad as I was so disappointed with the home one.

Is the employer forcing them to go on Holiday?

ShineOn7

Onesea wrote: »

From accros the pond in the uk
They've retracted their figures from 45k to 29k.

A death rate of 0.0024% by THEIR admission.

We still know that is a lie as their tests are flawed and STILL cannot isolate covid19 from the rest of the Corona family.

However, also by their own admission, only 1379 deaths without pre-existing conditions - out of a population of 57million!

Twice as many people die a year from falling over! Shall we just ban any movement at all?!

That's a death rate of 0.0001%. And we shut the world down.

Even more crazy is the death rate of under 60 with no pre-existing conditions which is 0.000006%

1 person in 41,000 people with no KNOWN underlying conditions has died of covid!

1 person in 138,000 under 60 has died of covid!

And that is even with their flawed tests and rigged results.

We have the whole world bending over to their tyranny when you are:

10 times MORE likely to fall down the stairs

25 times MORE likely to be hit by a car

327 time MORE likely to get food poisoning

You are only 10 times more likely to die from covid than be hit by lightning!

Mother of divine Jaysus

5 months in and still these kind of nonsensical posts

I'll sum this up in a way you might (hopefully) understand:

• Governments love money. They love the money they get from their VAT, the money from their economy being strong, the money from their people out and about spending it
  
• Governments worldwide ran the numbers and they saw that, without serious intervention and restrictions, that the end result would be catostrphic
  
• Not just to their people, to their hospitals and health systems. But it would also fcuk up their economy if it got seriously out of hand

That's a death rate of 0.0001%. And we shut the world down.

:rolleyes:

The mortality rate of Covid isn't 0.0001%

Arghus

cnocbui wrote: »

The right to travel is in the Irish constitution. I would find it odd if a court would find that the government can penalise someone for exercising a constitutional right.

I think you might be misinterpretating the context for that "right to travel".

Fundamental rights are not absolute - they can be limited or restricted by the Oireachtas for certain reasons, for example, for the common good or public order - Citizens Information.

podgeandrodge

pjohnson wrote: »

Is the employer forcing them to go on Holiday?

People have statutory leave which they have to take. Going on a holiday of their choice is not unreasonable.

If they choose to go to a "non green" destination, for non essential travel (not defined) and their work requires attending an office, then it's a public health issue and they will be asked to take leave/unpaid for that period because they can't attend work.

However, if they have been working from home for the last 4 months, with full agreement of employer, and do non essential travel to a non green country, and therefore have to isolate, I can't see any reason for the employer (or the Public Service in this case) to force annual or unpaid leave from them if they can continue to work as normal. That makes no sense and smacks of some political decision rather than public health.

Arghus

polesheep wrote: »

It's disingenuous to say that it is their decision if their 'public' employer is taking money from them for going.

As for holidaying at home; I did that last year and had to have a second holiday abroad as I was so disappointed with the home one.

No one is forcing them to go on a non essential holiday. They are free to chose to do it, but there's consequences to their decision.

pjohnson

Arghus wrote: »

No one is forcing them to go on a non essential holiday. They are free to chose to do it, but there's consequences to their decision.

Some "adults" really need to have thier hand held at all times and can't understand they are responsible for any consequences their own decisions have.

ShineOn7

One of the more random posts I've seen on Reddit Ireland

My sister works in the Mater. She said that non European staff are getting disproportionately effected by it.

Apparently Europeans have a higher resistance to it.

Doesn't make sense though as many EU countries, Ireland included, wouldn't have great levels of Vitamin D in their people

Spanish Eyes

Those who choose to travel abroad on HOLIDAYS to whatever zone are just totally self centred now. Wink!

Ireland is gorgeous and has so many undiscovered parts. No need to go to Dingle or Roundstone or Wexford or surfing in Sligo or whatever. Do your research.

Was a tongue in cheek post I hope you understand.

Nevertheless, as I have found out myself over the last few weeks and months there are magical places that are largely hidden from view. That's where we are going, to the hidden heartlands. Can't be arsed with the crowds in the places du jour just to be part of the crowd.

But it seems to me that some always went to the popular places, but now there is competition for places and that is not working well. OMG

pjohnson

pjohnson wrote: »

Not really.

Can you afford the two weeks without wages or not?

The holiday money is already spent from your balance. You need to decide if you can afford to miss 2 weeks wages.

But some may be willing to sacrifice the two weeks to make use of the money already spent

Arghus

ShineOn7 wrote: »

One of the more random posts I've seen on Reddit Ireland




Doesn't make sense though as many EU countries, Ireland included, wouldn't have great levels of Vitamin D in their people

Sounds like bullshyte to be honest.

Stheno

Arghus wrote: »

Sounds like bullshyte to be honest.

Think it's been pretty conclusively shown that non caucasians are more likely to suffer disproportionately from this virus than caucasians

SeaBreezes

ShineOn7 wrote: »

One of the more random posts I've seen on Reddit Ireland




Doesn't make sense though as many EU countries, Ireland included, wouldn't have great levels of Vitamin D in their people

There was one paper linking casual occurence of severity to a gene leftover from neanderthals..

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/04/health/coronavirus-neanderthals.html


Only 8% europeans have this gene compared to 63% of Bangladesh. It really is a genetic lottery if true.

froog

froog wrote: »

the green list is the dumbest idea i've seen yet.

"hey guys you really shouldn't travel but if you do, go to these places, they're great!"

Advice is “don’t travel unless it’s essential. If you do travel you will be required to quarantine for 14 days on returning unless you travel from these 15 counties. The reason you don’t have to quarantine from these countries is the risk of contracting the virus in those countries is as low or lower than here,”

It’s that ****ing simple. I don’t get the confusion

Onesea

Onesea wrote: »

From accros the pond in the uk
They've retracted their figures from 45k to 29k.

A death rate of 0.0024% by THEIR admission.

We still know that is a lie as their tests are flawed and STILL cannot isolate covid19 from the rest of the Corona family.

However, also by their own admission, only 1379 deaths without pre-existing conditions - out of a population of 57million!

Twice as many people die a year from falling over! Shall we just ban any movement at all?!

That's a death rate of 0.0001%. And we shut the world down.

Even more crazy is the death rate of under 60 with no pre-existing conditions which is 0.000006%

1 person in 41,000 people with no KNOWN underlying conditions has died of covid!

1 person in 138,000 under 60 has died of covid!

And that is even with their flawed tests and rigged results.

We have the whole world bending over to their tyranny when you are:

10 times MORE likely to fall down the stairs

25 times MORE likely to be hit by a car

327 time MORE likely to get food poisoning

You are only 10 times more likely to die from covid than be hit by lightning!

How many people who die from falling over have a pre existing condition? You didn’t exclude them from your numbers

Arghus

Stheno wrote: »

Think it's been pretty conclusively shown that non caucasians are more likely to suffer disproportionately from this virus than caucasians

Yes, but that seems to be related to socio economic factors and poorer access to healthcare, rather than the virus being inherently more dangerous on a physiological level from group to group.

ShineOn7

ShineOn7 wrote: »

One of the more random posts I've seen on Reddit Ireland




Doesn't make sense though as many EU countries, Ireland included, wouldn't have great levels of Vitamin D in their people

Irish people absorb more vitamin d through our skin and are more likely to have higher levels of dairy in our diet supplementing our vitamin d. People from Warner climate get their vitamin d almost exclusively from the sun and when they move to less sunny regions do have more issues with vitamin d deficiency

iamwhoiam

Arghus wrote: »

Yes, but that seems to be related to socio economic factors and poorer access to healthcare, rather than the virus being inherently more dangerous on a physiological level from group to group.

It has to do with their abilty to get Vitamin D , the sunlight in more northern climates is less intense and Black and Asian people cannot absorb enough sunlight when they live in Northern Europe

gipi

podgeandrodge wrote: »

The public servant rule makes no sense. You have to take 2 weeks leave or unpaid to isolate at home even if you normally work from home? Why stop you working? I'd understand if they had to attend the office obviously.

I'm guessing that the rules must be applied equally to all staff in the PS. Some staff may not be able to work from home, and couldn't be treated differently to those who can.

Arghus

iamwhoiam wrote: »

It has to do with their abilty to get Vitamin D , the sunlight in more northern climates is less intense and Black and Asian people cannot absorb enough sunlight when they live in Northern Europe

Is that proven to have a link to their rates of infection from covid 19?

Here’s a link to an article explaining that rates of infection and worse outcomes tend to be more readily explained by socio economic factors like pre existing poverty, organisation of households or a disproportionate amount of pre-existing conditions amongst BAME communities on account of deprevation:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sciencefocus.com/news/covid-19-why-are-so-many-bame-patients-dying/amp/

iamwhoiam

Arghus wrote: »

Is that proven to have a link to their rates of infection from covid 19?

I have seen reports on the connection and its being researched . I cannot say if its been proven conclusively but it’s certainly considered a factor

polesheep

pjohnson wrote: »

Some "adults" really need to have thier hand held at all times and can't understand they are responsible for any consequences their own decisions have.

That statement is both wrong and moronic.

ShineOn7

Stheno wrote: »

Think it's been pretty conclusively shown that non caucasians are more likely to suffer disproportionately from this virus than caucasians

Yes I believe there's been studies in America that show this in spades

Arghus

Arghus wrote: »

Is that proven to have a link to their rates of infection from covid 19?

Don’t think there is any conclusive evidence. Blood groups is another avenue of research

ShineOn7

Deleted User wrote: »

Irish people absorb more vitamin d through our skin and are more likely to have higher levels of dairy in our diet supplementing our vitamin d.

Eh?

The Irish have very low levels of Vitamin D surely? We don't get a single bit of it from the sun for 7 months a year (September to March)