Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again

mountgomery burns

Yeah I don't doubt that's a prominent factor historically. I think the meal thing here is more likely to effectively limit the time spent in the setting and discourage people from moving on next door.

As I've said before, I really do think it should be done on a venue basis with capacities and all the measures around sanitization, table service only, contact tracing etc enforced. Even reduced opening hours I think is a fair compromise if it enables more businesses to be viable.

Responsibility to enforce measures should rest with publicans, and if they don't do it there should be provisions for their closure for a defined time period that would discourage them. However, the ship for this hoisted it's anchor on the 29th June, and left the harbour on the 20th July. I'm not sure what'll happen but certainly don't expect them to open until late September and that would depend on cases between now and then.

Wouldn't be overly optimistic at this stage. This is detrimental for a lot of these established businesses, and a further burden on the state.

hynesie08

https://mobile.twitter.com/ciaraphelan_/status/1293516497168596992


Talk of a cash injection if they're asked to stay closed, seems like the decision has already been made......

ilovesmybrick

hynesie08 wrote: »

https://mobile.twitter.com/ciaraphelan_/status/1293516497168596992


Talk of a cash injection if they're asked to stay closed, seems like the decision has already been made......

I think the decision was made a few weeks ago. I don't see any way they'll open the pubs at the same time the schools open. Maybe the end of September if things go well with the schools, but who knows at this stage.

rob316

Ya looks like they won't be opening anytime soon. Sept 17th at the absolute earliest I'd say

joeguevara

rob316 wrote: »

Ya looks like they won't be opening anytime soon. Sept 17th at the absolute earliest I'd say

Or they could open today if they wanted it if they made arrangements to serve food.

ilovesmybrick

joeguevara wrote: »

Or they could open today if they wanted it if they made arrangements to serve food.

That's not practical for a lot of rural pubs. I know of a few in rural Clare that have no facility to provide food and are miles away from any takeaways or restaurants. It's one thing if you're based in a large town or city, but some of these rural pubs have no option to serve food, and they'll be the first to go under.

hynesie08

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

I think the decision was made a few weeks ago. I don't see any way they'll open the pubs at the same time the schools open. Maybe the end of September if things go well with the schools, but who knows at this stage.

They're absolutely going to give schools 3 weeks uninterrupted before they consider it, October Bank Holiday if I had to make a guess.

Fact is your going to see a lot of rural pubs opening up anyway, probably with the full knowledge of the gardai.

joeguevara

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

That's not practical for a lot of rural pubs. I know of a few in rural Clare that have no facility to provide food and are miles away from any takeaways or restaurants. It's one thing if you're based in a large town or city, but some of these rural pubs have no option to serve food, and they'll be the first to go under.

Ok, my point was for the vast majority of pubs and I am not saying it is the ultimate solution. If I was in a rural pub in Clare, and wanted to open and was sure that it was financially viable to do so, I would get a caterer to make up salad plates or make them up myself and keep them in a fridge. Or I would organise a caterer to prepare a pot of stew and have that available.

It is very rare that a pub is so rural that they have no access to a caterer or a kitchen. Most of the rural pubs that I know and love host 21sts and birthdays and always have a lovely buffet spread.

ginoginelli

joeguevara wrote: »

Ok, my point was for the vast majority of pubs and I am not saying it is the ultimate solution. If I was in a rural pub in Clare, and wanted to open and was sure that it was financially viable to do so, I would get a caterer to make up salad plates or make them up myself and keep them in a fridge. Or I would organise a caterer to prepare a pot of stew and have that available.

It is very rare that a pub is so rural that they have no access to a caterer or a kitchen. Most of the rural pubs that I know and love host 21sts and birthdays and always have a lovely buffet spread.

That should not be allowed though. Pubs are not supposed to be open at all. REASTURANTS are open.

This 'cute hoor' 9 euro for a bag of chips/salad etc loophole really needs to be put to a stop. It is making a mockery of the policy and being abused across the board too.

joeguevara

ginoginelli wrote: »

That should not be allowed though. Pubs are not supposed to be open at all. REASTURANTS are open.

This 'cute hoor' 9 euro for a bag of chips/salad etc loophole really needs to be put to a stop. It is making a mockery of the policy and being abused across the board too.

It is what it is. If it works it is grand. Im not really arguing for or against it but if pubs or more than likely their patrons are lamenting that pubs can't open, it is clear that if they really wanted to they can.

From what I have seen, any pub that is serving food, is actually serving substantial food and this theory of a bag of chips is more of an urban legend.

El_Duderino 09

Jackman25 wrote: »

Really. Higher even than meat factories or nursing homes?

For the general public, pubs are in the highest risk category (not necessarily the highest risk environment as I said inteh last post). This isn't controversial information. It's high risk for all the completely obvious reasons that any normal person can think of, by themselves.

weldoninhio

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

For the general public, pubs are in the highest risk category (not necessarily the highest risk environment as I said inteh last post). This isn't controversial information. It's high risk for all the completely obvious reasons that any normal person can think of, by themselves.

A pub not sticking to the rules, maybe more dangerous. Otherwise it’s as safe as a pub serving food.

El_Duderino 09

niallo27 wrote: »

Your thinking of pubs last year though, everything has changed. Why do you assume every aspect of society can change but pubs won't just because people have a few pints on board.

Will peope not be doing the things that help transmission? Indoors, no masks, relatively crowded environment.

Take one simple example of wearing masks. I don't expect people to wear masks in the pub, it's not practical. But to then pretend that doesn't make it a good environment for transmission is to deny reality. I get that some people want to pretend reality doesn't apply to pubs because they personally want pubs to open again. But someone had to be grown ups and lucky for us, our government is stepping up and being responsible on this issue.

joeguevara

weldoninhio wrote: »

A pub not sticking to the rules, maybe more dangerous. Otherwise it’s as safe as a pub serving food.

It would depend on what rules they are not sticking to but yes, on the face of it you are correct. A pub serving food that allowed a table of 4 stay for 105 minutes is as safe as a pub not serving food that allowed a table of 4 stay for 105 minutes. However, the risk of the table of 4 where food is not served breaching social distancing, mixing tables, embracing more, talking louder with droplets spreading wider is higher.

weldoninhio

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

For the general public, pubs are in the highest risk category (not necessarily the highest risk environment as I said inteh last post). This isn't controversial information. It's high risk for all the completely obvious reasons that any normal person can think of, by themselves.

A pub not sticking to the rules, maybe more dangerous. Otherwise it’s as safe as a pub serving food.

ShooterSF

joeguevara wrote: »

It is what it is. If it works it is grand. Im not really arguing for or against it but if pubs or more than likely their patrons are lamenting that pubs can't open, it is clear that if they really wanted to they can.

From what I have seen, any pub that is serving food, is actually serving substantial food and this theory of a bag of chips is more of an urban legend.

The thing is I've worked in a couple of "rural" locals bar. And I can't see how it would turn a profit forcing people coming in to sit at a table and eat soup or salad. People don't miss the building, they miss sitting along the bar drinking their calories and talking bollox to each other, and that is a fine thing to want to do but it isn't possible if the pub is following the guidelines to reopen as a psuedo restauarant.
So yeah they "can" get a soup pot or a caterer but I can't see them getting enough customers wanted to come down for a bite to eat and a couple of pints.

PommieBast

hynesie08 wrote: »

Talk of a cash injection if they're asked to stay closed, seems like the decision has already been made......

Lot of qualification in the tweet though. To me sounds like another closure extension is all but guaranteed but the bit regarding cash is just weasel words.

joeguevara

ShooterSF wrote: »

The thing is I've worked in a couple of "rural" locals bar. And I can't see how it would turn a profit forcing people coming in to sit at a table and eat soup or salad. People don't miss the building, they miss sitting along the bar drinking their calories and talking bollox to each other, and that is a fine thing to want to do but it isn't possible if the pub is following the guidelines to reopen as a psuedo restauarant.
So yeah they "can" get a soup pot or a caterer but I can't see them getting enough customers wanted to come down for a bite to eat and a couple of pints.

100% agree. But that model is more than likely not going to be sustainable even without Covid.

Irish Steve

joeguevara wrote: »

Ok, my point was for the vast majority of pubs and I am not saying it is the ultimate solution. If I was in a rural pub in Clare, and wanted to open and was sure that it was financially viable to do so, I would get a caterer to make up salad plates or make them up myself and keep them in a fridge. Or I would organise a caterer to prepare a pot of stew and have that available.

It is very rare that a pub is so rural that they have no access to a caterer or a kitchen. Most of the rural pubs that I know and love host 21sts and birthdays and always have a lovely buffet spread.

Have you really thought through that answer? A pub full of people pawing all over a buffet? Really? The hotels have had to stop doing self service breakfasts because of the risks of cross contamination, do you really want to introduce cross contamination risk into a pub that might still be operating with cold water only outdoor toilets?

If the pub doesn't have a food licence, then any attempt at serving food is putting people at risk, as they very likely won't have the facilities to adequately deal with the rest of the food serving situation. It really is that simple. It may well be unacceptable to some, but the reality is that Covid is not going to respect nice ideas.

joeguevara

Irish Steve wrote: »

Have you really thought through that answer? A pub full of people pawing all over a buffet? Really? The hotels have had to stop doing self service breakfasts because of the risks of cross contamination, do you really want to introduce cross contamination risk into a pub that might still be operating with cold water only outdoor toilets?

If the pub doesn't have a food licence, then any attempt at serving food is putting people at risk, as they very likely won't have the facilities to adequately deal with the rest of the food serving situation. It really is that simple. It may well be unacceptable to some, but the reality is that Covid is not going to respect nice ideas.

I never said a buffet is what should be served. I said that most rural pubs that I know were always able to serve food even without a kitchen for example a buffet at a 21st. It was in direct response to a poster who said that rural pubs don’t have the option to have an external caterer so that they can open.Of course it would be a serious breach if it was a buffet free for all or a buffet at all but it showed that they could have access to food.

In my opinion only pubs with a restaurant certificate and ability to social distance should be open. However the fact is that an exemption exists which allows for use of external catering. I was replying to someone who was lamenting saying it’s terrible that pubs can’t open. I was stating they can.

completedit

TBH I have no sympathy for the pubs. Stop pussy footing around and open up for christ sake. Get a few George Foremans and serve up a few sambos. Feeling sorry for themselves. It's the principle of it that's annoying. We are being forced to live half lives for an extended period of time for a disease which when it's all said and done will not have led to a particularly huge upturn in the annual global death rate.

harr

Quick question, a pub in next town over in Laois is after reopening but all the seating has been placed outside and will serve drink and food outside only.
Now this establishment has been closed 4 time’s already in the space of a few weeks since food was allowed to be served. On one occasion 75 people were inside with no food and no social distancing.. the owners are really taking the piss all the while the regular pubs have been shut and adhering to current restrictions.
So how can they possibly open.
Currently on Facebook that they have a full house.

mountgomery burns

harr wrote: »

Quick question, a pub in next town over in Laois is after reopening but all the seating has been placed outside and will serve drink and food outside only.
Now this establishment has been closed 4 time’s already in the space of a few weeks since food was allowed to be served. On one occasion 75 people were inside with no food and no social distancing.. the owners are really taking the piss all the while the regular pubs have been shut and adhering to current restrictions.
So how can they possibly open.
Currently on Facebook that they have a full house.

They shouldn't be but the reality is there's no criminal offense being committed. Best you could hope for us the licence is not renewed, if you want to make a complain you can do so below

https://www.hsa.ie/eng/customer_service/make_a_complaint/

joe40

completedit wrote: »

TBH I have no sympathy for the pubs. Stop pussy footing around and open up for christ sake. Get a few George Foremans and serve up a few sambos. Feeling sorry for themselves. It's the principle of it that's annoying. We are being forced to live half lives for an extended period of time for a disease which when it's all said and done will not have led to a particularly huge upturn in the annual global death rate.

Every country in the world is treating the coronavirus as a serious threat. How can you possibly think they're all wrong and are too alarmist.

harr

mountgomery burns wrote: »

They shouldn't be but the reality is there's no criminal offense being committed. Best you could hope for us the licence is not renewed, if you want to make a complain you can do so below

https://www.hsa.ie/eng/customer_service/make_a_complaint/

Not my business really and not from the exact locality but surprised to see it plastered all over Facebook and if I was one of the closed pubs I would be pissed off.

completedit

joe40 wrote: »

Every country in the world is treating the coronavirus as a serious threat. How can you possibly think they're all wrong and are too alarmist.

Risk assessment and statistics are not something we are particularly great at as a species. It's actually insane to see how this plays out even at the top level. Daniel Kahneman won a Noble prize for his research into this sort of stuff but if people don't take such information and make decisions for the greater good, what's the point?

questionmark?

hynesie08 wrote: »

They're absolutely going to give schools 3 weeks uninterrupted before they consider it, October Bank Holiday if I had to make a guess.

.

See the issue then roles on. If they decided to open end of October it would not happen as no way they would open on a Bank holiday so your now into November.

giveitholly

questionmark? wrote: »

See the issue then roles on. If they decided to open end of October it would not happen as no way they would open on a Bank holiday so your now into November.

And then Christmas is coming and no way they open up before Christmas so then it's the new year

PTH2009

jesus christmas time without proper pubs would be something else. Really hope it doesn't happen and we see them open up earlier

Once the publicans are getting money they won't kick up a fuss

On the 31st could we see maybe going back to normal hours for places and then wet pubs opening mid September ?

completedit

I can't see how it's feasible to open up pubs once autumn and winter come. Summer was the time to try it out and see what happened. Unfortunately, a trial and error approach is needed and we've backed ourselves into a corner with this approach.