Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again

weldoninhio

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah it’s right there for all to see. You se to think that vaccinating the vulnerable means there will be no deaths. And you also said you don’t care about people being sick or hospitalised “unless they’re dying”.

Your approach use ems to assume that all the only people who die are in the government’s “vulnerable” group. Unfortunately the reality is that lots of seemingly healthy pepper also get seriously sick and die from covid.

Taking the simplistic approach, assuming the government’s “vulnerable” category covers all the people who die from covid, is naive, but understandable. You expect that when all the people in the “vulnerable” category have been vaccinated, then everything will go back to normal. It’s a simple approach and it will lead to disappointment when reality kicks in. But, if it makes you feel happy to pretend it’s likely to happen, then go for it.

Extremely few “seemingly healthy pepper” (sic) die.

El_Duderino 09

Dickie10 wrote: »

yes i know we were all on the thought line that once over 70s and frontliners, nuresing home reidents are vaccinated we would get level 2 at least, then hopefully level 1. I think there moving goalposts now, what you will hear is this new variant means even teenagers van suffer badly or even die of covid19, so level 3 we will stay at for foreseeable. Point is in a years time we could be getting 40-50 cases a day could we ? thus it keeps us at level 2. or will nightclubs and indoor arenas just open in August anyway? you just wonder as we get down the cohorts, hospitalisations may go down to very few but cases may still be high, or will the whole thing begin to slide away as people stop being and going for tests when vaccines are freely available and large amounts of vulnerable already vaccinated. if people stop showing up for civid tests then covid cases go down. once all vulnerable people are vaccinated , hospitalisations will drop away to very little. They could keep us lock up at level 2 for years if cases still crop up however small?

Please tell me if im desperatley wrong here....

I presume you’re desperately wrong. Hard to tell though.

Are you making the case for some kind of conspiracy?

El_Duderino 09

MOH wrote: »

That really bugged me last week.

Once of Reid's excuses on not moving faster was that there were procedures to be followed, consent had to be sought, etc.

Because obviously that couldn't possibly have been done before the vaccines arrived, since they just materialised out of the blue with no forewarning :rolleyes:
...

Of course you need consent. That must be obvious to everyone, isn’t it? Considering the vaccine was only approved in the last few weeks, how could they get consent for something that hasn’t been approved yet? If they can’t tell you exactly what the risks/benefits are, then how could you consent to it?

The vaccine rollout takes time. I think some people had seen the vaccine as a quick fix - as soon as it’s approved then it’ll be administered in a few weeks and we go back to normal. It’s disappointing to see that the reality is much more complicated than people imagined.

But we have to deal with the reality, not the fantasy. Consent to be vaccinated is very important and consent means understanding the situation. And it takes time to do the whole thing properly. Don’t believe someone who tells you it will be a quick fix. It’s just not going to happen overnight.

El_Duderino 09

weldoninhio wrote: »

Extremely few “seemingly healthy pepper” (sic) die.

Sure. But it’s government’s job to take care of them and ensure the rollout and reopening are done well.

When do you honestly think we’ll go back to normal?

bucketybuck

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah it’s right there for all to see. You se to think that vaccinating the vulnerable means there will be no deaths. And you also said you don’t care about people being sick or hospitalised “unless they’re dying”.

Nope, incorrect, you continue to misrepresent what I said. At this point I have to assume you are doing it intentionally, because you have had enough time at this stage to go back and read the actual words that were written, words that were very clear and simple to begin with.

Stop writing 20 posts when 2 would do, start actually reading for comprehension.

El_Duderino 09

bucketybuck wrote: »

Nope, incorrect, you continue to misrepresent what I said. At this point I have to assume you are doing it intentionally, because you have had enough time at this stage to go back and read the actual words that were written, words that were very clear and simple to begin with.

Stop writing 20 posts when 2 would do, start actually reading for comprehension.

bucketybuck wrote: »

If people aren't dying then I don't give a **** how many cases there are, if people aren't dying,...

This is what you said.

You don’t care about the health issues unless people are dying. And that’s fine because it’s not your job to care. The people making decisions are charged with caring and they’ll be held accounts for the reopening. So they do care about the health of people who don’t die.

Allowing the virus to rip through the population isn’t a runner no matter how much you think it is. The rollout and reopening will need to be handled well and by people who can see beyond their own desire to get back to normal regardless of the consequences.

bucketybuck

A reminder for all who aren't trying to misrepresent posts on here, this was my original post:

bucketybuck wrote: »

I don't see the need for a row over anything. If the vulnerable are vaccinated, and if the vaccine works, then logic says that the number of deaths and hospital admission will in turn fall to minimal.

And if that happens then there will be zero justification for any restrictions whatsoever.

They brought in restrictions because of the numbers, they should take them away because of the numbers.

I am confident that if I made that statement in front of a classroom of 5 year olds they would wonder why I was stating the obvious and probably sit quietly waiting for me to get to the point. Instead I have one person who has decided that I said something else and wants to argue with his imagination instead.

El_Duderino 09

bucketybuck wrote: »

A reminder for all who aren't trying to misrepresent posts on here, this was my original post:

I am confident that if I made that statement in front of a classroom of 5 year olds they would wonder why I was stating the obvious and probably sit quietly waiting for me to get to the point. Instead I have one person who has decided that I said something else and wants to argue with his imagination instead.

Sure. And do you think this will happen when the government’s “vulnerable” group have been vaccinated?

Dickie10

no but im wondering how we are going to extricate ourselves from restrictions to actually opening indoor venues over 100 people? i think it will be a lot harder than people think. how do we make the jump from level 3-2-1

El_Duderino 09

Dickie10 wrote: »

no but im wondering how we are going to extricate ourselves from restrictions to actually opening indoor venues over 100 people? i think it will be a lot harder than people think. how do we make the jump from level 3-2-1

The vaccine rollout will be the key. Once most of the population is vaccinated, it’ll probably be safe to reopen. Hard to say how long it will take to vaccinate most of the population, but less than a year from now is probably optimistic.

Being hopelessly optimistic is just setting yourself up for disappointment. But being hopelessly optimistic is also leading to people thinking there’s a conspiracy at play.

How do you think it will work?

opinionated3

IMO, when the frontline workers and over 70s are vaccinated that should be it. Open society as much as possible. We've done and suffered enough. Peoples mental health has to take priority eventually not to mention the economy of which hospitality plays a big part.

Neowise

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The vaccine rollout will be the key. Once most of the population is vaccinated, it’ll probably be safe to reopen. Hard to say how long it will take to vaccinate most of the population, but less than a year from now is probably optimistic.

Being hopelessly optimistic is just setting yourself up for disappointment. But being hopelessly optimistic is also leading to people thinking there’s a conspiracy at play.

How do you think it will work?

I'll just listen to the head to the vaccine task force of Ireland.


If you think they are being over optimistic, well, you must know better than them or at least think you do anyway, and if thats the case, then what use does anybody else have of trying to change your mind.

Head of vaccine task force says by August, anyone who wants vaccine, will have it

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/a-momentous-day-annie-lynch-79-first-person-to-get-covid-19-vaccine-in-state-1.4446909

Vaccine task force predicts August as end date for vaccination of Irish population

https://www.her.ie/news/vaccine-task-force-predicts-august-end-date-vaccination-irish-population-515759

CIARAN_BOYLE

Neowise wrote: »

I'll just listen to the head to the vaccine task force of Ireland.


If you think they are being over optimistic, well, you must know better than them or at least think you do anyway, and if thats the case, then what use does anybody else have of trying to change your mind.

Have you a more recent quote from the head of the vaccine task force?

At that time we were assuming an early January European approval for Oxford Astra Zenaca.

The day after that quote the EMA came out and said there's not enough data for that vaccine.

Now they are talking about approval for that vaccine late February which could really delay things as numbers for that vaccine was supposed to be very high.

El_Duderino 09

opinionated3 wrote: »

IMO, when the frontline workers and over 70s are vaccinated that should be it. Open society as much as possible. We've done and suffered enough. Peoples mental health has to take priority eventually not to mention the economy of which hospitality plays a big part.

Totally unrealistic, but I see the appeal. In reality, they’ll opt to make sure we don’t need to lock down again. That will mean a managed reopening. Relaxation during the summer and tightening a bit next winter if necessary. But until pretty much the whole population is vaccinated, they’ll need to keep distancing and masks. Those two will be the last to go.

Hopefully we’ll have household mixing even if there’s a limit on the number of people or households who can mix. The crucial thing should be to ensure there is no need to lockdown agains and all business can stay open with necessary measures like distancing.

If you’re worried about mental health, then avoiding another full lockdown should be the goal - and vaccinating the whole population as effectively as possible.

El_Duderino 09

Neowise wrote: »

I'll just listen to the head to the vaccine task force of Ireland.


If you think they are being over optimistic, well, you must know better than them or at least think you do anyway, and if thats the case, then what use does anybody else have of trying to change your mind.



https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/a-momentous-day-annie-lynch-79-first-person-to-get-covid-19-vaccine-in-state-1.4446909


https://www.her.ie/news/vaccine-task-force-predicts-august-end-date-vaccination-irish-population-515759

That’s great news. Given it was the estimate they gave on the first day of the vaccination programme, I’d say it is probably optimistic alright. But, fingers crossed.

I notice the article says they aren’t even considering anyone under 18 yet because the tests haven’t been carried out on children yet. That doesn’t bode well for getting back to normal. Hopefully they can do the testing and add children to the list tombs vaccinated.

mightyreds

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

That’s great news. Given it was the estimate they gave on the first day of the vaccination programme, I’d say it is probably optimistic alright. But, fingers crossed.

I notice the article says they aren’t even considering anyone under 18 yet because the tests haven’t been carried out on children yet. That doesn’t bode well for getting back to normal. Hopefully they can do the testing and add children to the list tombs vaccinated.

92% of deaths have been over 65 and 88% of all deaths had underlying conditions, once they are vaccinated and deaths flatline they will open up.

opinionated3

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Totally unrealistic, but I see the appeal. In reality, they’ll opt to make sure we don’t need to lock down again. That will mean a managed reopening. Relaxation during the summer and tightening a bit next winter if necessary. But until pretty much the whole population is vaccinated, they’ll need to keep distancing and masks. Those two will be the last to go.

Hopefully we’ll have household mixing even if there’s a limit on the number of people or households who can mix. The crucial thing should be to ensure there is no need to lockdown agains and all business can stay open with necessary measures like distancing.

If you’re worried about mental health, then avoiding another full lockdown should be the goal - and vaccinating the whole population as effectively as possible.

Personally i can put up with masks and social distancing to a point. I still believe that businesses should be allowed to reopen and try to survive as soon as the aforementioned categories above are vaccinated. If my elderly father in law is vaccinated I don't really see any harm in going for a few pints with him. Tony's latest comments re: alcohol are supporting the theory that there really is an agenda to tackle socialising via the local pub in this country. At 43 years of age I'm not interested in that rhetoric. I don't abuse alcohol but I do meet my friends outside of work for a few pints at the weekend. I have no interest in gyms, cinema, café bars etc. I'm one of those who wants everything to return to the way it was. And the sooner the better.
So get the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated asap and let's move on.

ShooterSF

The thing about just vaccinating the vulnerable and getting on with it is that it assumes everyone can be vaccinated and that it is 100% effective. What we actually need is enough people vaccinated so that someone catching it doesn't pass it on to multiple people who go on to pass it on.... Therefore those who the vaccine didn't work for or those who can't have one due to a weakened immune system are less likely to come into contact with the virus.

El_Duderino 09

mightyreds wrote: »

92% of deaths have been over 65 and 88% of all deaths had underlying conditions, once they are vaccinated and deaths flatline they will open up.

Once they open up, cases will skyrocket and deaths will not flatline. Managed reopening is necessary until we get close to vaccinating the whole population.

At the moment they don’t know whether the vaccine will stop vaccinated people from spreading the virus or if it will just stop them getting sick themselves. There’s a huge difference between those two scenarios in terms of how much we can reopen businesses. Hopefully, the vaccine will stop the spread as well as stopping vaccinated people from getting sick. But only time will tell.

El_Duderino 09

opinionated3 wrote: »

Personally i can put up with masks and social distancing to a point. I still believe that businesses should be allowed to reopen and try to survive as soon as the aforementioned categories above are vaccinated. If my elderly father in law is vaccinated I don't really see any harm in going for a few pints with him. Tony's latest comments re: alcohol are supporting the theory that there really is an agenda to tackle socialising via the local pub in this country. At 43 years of age I'm not interested in that rhetoric. I don't abuse alcohol but I do meet my friends outside of work for a few pints at the weekend. I have no interest in gyms, cinema, café bars etc. I'm one of those who wants everything to return to the way it was. And the sooner the better.
So get the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated asap and let's move on.

Frontline workers and over 70s is nowhere near enough to get back to normal.

You’ve picked an arbitrary age to vaccinate above (70) and now you’re going to be disappointed again when everything doesn’t go back to normal when the over 70s and frontline workers have been vaccinated. Presumably it will also add to your conspiracy theory too. Why do you do that to yourself?

El_Duderino 09

ShooterSF wrote: »

The thing about just vaccinating the vulnerable and getting on with it is that it assumes everyone can be vaccinated and that it is 100% effective. What we actually need is enough people vaccinated so that someone catching it doesn't pass it on to multiple people who go on to pass it on.... Therefore those who the vaccine didn't work for or those who can't have one due to a weakened immune system are less likely to come into contact with the virus.

That’s the reality. And that will mean vaccinating nearly the whole population.
The point about whether the vaccine will prevent people spreading it or just prevent them getting sick, will play a huge role. The former means getting back to normal far quicker. The latter means they’ll have to vaccinate nearly everyone.

opinionated3

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Frontline workers and over 70s is nowhere near enough to get back to normal.

You’ve picked an arbitrary age to vaccinate above (70) and now you’re going to be disappointed again when everything doesn’t go back to normal when the over 70s and frontline workers have been vaccinated. Presumably it will also add to your conspiracy theory too. Why do you do that to yourself?

Erm.... I'm not pushing any conspiracy theory. I'm only making reference to comments that have been written across these forums in relation to Tony's comments. I'm merely making the point that once these people are vaccinated there is no real justification for keeping us locked down. Come the end of march non essential retail should be allowed to open. Gyms, golf courses, team sports etc back to normal. As regards hospitality, hotels should be open, and maybe start off with gastro pub opening as well. Tourism is hugely important for our economy so these need to be open and allowed to make an attempt to recover. I realise there are some here who just seem to love the lockdown society but I'd imagine they are in the minority. In conjunction with that, I see no reason for the LVA and VFI not to push for reopening around April. Possibly May if vaccinations hit a slow patch. There's extra vaccines coming and that should speed things up significantly. If the government intends to shut down the PUP and EWSS schemes on 31st march they leave people with no option but to reopen and get back to work.

El_Duderino 09

opinionated3 wrote: »

Erm.... I'm not pushing any conspiracy theory. I'm only making reference to comments that have been written across these forums in relation to Tony's comments. I'm merely making the point that once these people are vaccinated there is no real justification for keeping us locked down. Come the end of march non essential retail should be allowed to open. Gyms, golf courses, team sports etc back to normal. As regards hospitality, hotels should be open, and maybe start off with gastro pub opening as well. Tourism is hugely important for our economy so these need to be open and allowed to make an attempt to recover. I realise there are some here who just seem to love the lockdown society but I'd imagine they are in the minority. In conjunction with that, I see no reason for the LVA and VFI not to push for reopening around April. Possibly May if vaccinations hit a slow patch. There's extra vaccines coming and that should speed things up significantly. If the government intends to shut down the PUP and EWSS schemes on 31st march they leave people with no option but to reopen and get back to work.

You mentioned the anti pub conspiracy theory in your last post. If (when) the pubs don’t reopen when the the over 70s and frontline workers are vaccinated, will it add evidence to that conspiracy theory?

Why have you picked the arbitrary groups of the over 70s and frontline workers, for reopening? Also, are you just saying we should reopen after that for the sake of it or do you think it will actually happen?

Dickie10

Neowise wrote: »

I'll just listen to the head to the vaccine task force of Ireland.


If you think they are being over optimistic, well, you must know better than them or at least think you do anyway, and if thats the case, then what use does anybody else have of trying to change your mind.



https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/a-momentous-day-annie-lynch-79-first-person-to-get-covid-19-vaccine-in-state-1.4446909


https://www.her.ie/news/vaccine-task-force-predicts-august-end-date-vaccination-irish-population-515759

Thats it im booking Flannerys hotel, 3 nights Galway Race Week. OMG

MOH

opinionated3 wrote: »

Personally i can put up with masks and social distancing to a point. I still believe that businesses should be allowed to reopen and try to survive as soon as the aforementioned categories above are vaccinated. If my elderly father in law is vaccinated I don't really see any harm in going for a few pints with him. Tony's latest comments re: alcohol are supporting the theory that there really is an agenda to tackle socialising via the local pub in this country. At 43 years of age I'm not interested in that rhetoric. I don't abuse alcohol but I do meet my friends outside of work for a few pints at the weekend. I have no interest in gyms, cinema, café bars etc. I'm one of those who wants everything to return to the way it was. And the sooner the better.
So get the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated asap and let's move on.

Absolutely.

Tony tells us "this virus loves alcohol". Which is weird, because we'd all been told since March to use hand sanitiser with a high alcohol content to kill it.

Never mind the fact that the July reopening of restaurants and food pubs (and even the pubs I'd be happy to see go which took the absolute piste out of the regulations) had a negligible effect on numbers.

There's zero evidence that pubs operating under the same restrictions as restaurants and food pubs has any effect on the numbers, and therefore zero reason why they shouldn't be allowed open under the same restrictions. A fact which even the Tanaiste acknowledged back in (September? October?), when he said they'd be allowed open unless there was a general lockdown.

So as soon as it's safe on a wider basis to start reopening society, there is no covid-related reason to treat pubs differently.

Richard Hillman

God, I'd love 8 pints and good company right now.

fin12

If someone has the vaccine and meets someone who doesn’t, sure they are fine , they don’t need to worry about virus anymore? Is that correct?

HeidiHeidi

fin12 wrote: »

If someone has the vaccine and meets someone who doesn’t, sure they are fine , they don’t need to worry about virus anymore? Is that correct?

They are fine, they can catch the virus but they won't get sick from it.


It hasn't yet been fully established that they can't transmit the virus to others though.

El_Duderino 09

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

They are fine, they can catch the virus but they won't get sick from it.


It hasn't yet been fully established that they can't transmit the virus to others though.

Precisely. And there’s a huge difference between those two scenarios.

The vaccine wasn’t designed to prevent transmission so it would be a lucky side effect if it is able to prevent transmission. It would cut down the time needed to get back towards normal.

They’re looking into it to see whether it can stop transmission or not (or how much it cuts down on transmission) Fingers crossed.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Precisely. And there’s a huge difference between those two scenarios.

The vaccine wasn’t designed to prevent transmission so it would be a lucky side effect if it is able to prevent transmission. It would cut down the time needed to get back towards normal.

They’re looking into it to see whether it can stop transmission or not (or how much it cuts down on transmission) Fingers crossed.

That's fantastic. Vaccinate everyone and see what happens whether you can still transmit it or not. And they call people who question the validity of the vaccine crazy conspiracy theorists.