Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again

weldoninhio

weldoninhio wrote: »

Such a slow vaccine roll out. Why are we so crap at everything? :mad:

You are spot on there. Terrible slow giving them out. Only 15,000 vaccines given out to date which is embarassing. Look at Israel giving out 150,000 vaccines a day,working 24/7 and they are only giving them out here from Monday to Friday

El_Duderino 09

weldoninhio wrote: »

Again, we’ve had 10 months to figure it out. The HSE seems to be extremely reactive rather than proactive. Why weren’t staff (doctors, nurses, frontline admin) emailed months ago regarding whether they’d take an approved vaccine? Why are they doing up lists now? It would have been a start to have a database set up with all staff and their initial response. That’d be one thing out of the way. But no, wait til we have them in the fridge, then we’ll start figuring things out.

“How do you think it actually works? Have you ever thought about how it actually works?”

Those were the questions I asked.

I wonder if everyone was busy doing something else over the last year. Can you think of anything that might have occupied the health workers and health dependent of the civil service over the last year?

El_Duderino 09

bucketybuck wrote: »

Not one single thing I said indicates that I don't care about other people, perhaps you are projecting?

I say that if people are no longer getting sick and no longer dying that we would then no longer need restrictions designed to stop people from getting sick and dying.

Why you struggle to understand that simple point is strange.

bucketybuck wrote: »

...
If people aren't dying then I don't give a **** how many cases there are, if people aren't dying,...

Of course you don’t care about people ... unless they’re dying.

The government is charged with caring about people and handling the pandemic effectively. Luckily, it’s their job to care about people getting sick (even if they don’t actually die).

Fanaticise all you like, if it makes you happy. Just don’t actually expect things to go back to normal when just the over 70s and vulnerable are vaccinated. It’ll be a longer process than that in reality.

fin12

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Of course you don’t care about people ... unless they’re dying.

The government is charged with caring about people and handling the pandemic effectively. Luckily, it’s their job to care about people getting sick (even if they don’t actually die).

Fanaticise all you like, if it makes you happy. Just don’t actually expect things to go back to normal when just the over 70s and vulnerable are vaccinated. It’ll be a longer process than that in reality.

The government care about people? That is absolutely laughable.What have they done about the housing crisis in the last 10 years. There’s not a mention of people’s mental health out of their mouths throughout this whole thing. They are absolutely disgusting and don’t have an ounce of compassion about what everyday people.

El_Duderino 09

fin12 wrote: »

The government care about people? That is absolutely laughable.What have they done about the housing crisis in the last 10 years. There’s not a mention of people’s mental health out of their mouths throughout this whole thing. They are absolutely disgusting and don’t have an ounce of compassion about what everyday people.

It’s just their job. The reason for closing the economy and locking down is to protect the population. The American approach is to put the economy above all other considerations.

This isn’t really the tread for this topic. There must be loads of threads for generic whinging about government’s lack of compassion

weldoninhio

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

“How do you think it actually works? Have you ever thought about how it actually works?”

Those were the questions I asked.

I wonder if everyone was busy doing something else over the last year. Can you think of anything that might have occupied the health workers and health dependent of the civil service over the last year?

Do you think Drs and Nurses send out emails asking if staff will be taking a vaccine? Do you think all Drs and Nurses have been working on nothing but Covid/TikTok videos all year?

El_Duderino 09

weldoninhio wrote: »

Do you think Drs and Nurses send out emails asking if staff will be taking a vaccine? Do you think all Drs and Nurses have been working on nothing but Covid/TikTok videos all year?

No idea what you’re on about now. I’ve asked you a few times how you think these things work and you’ve avoided the question each time. Being honest, you haven’t a clue, have you?

weldoninhio

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

No idea what you’re on about now. I’ve asked you a few times how you think these things work and you’ve avoided the question each time. Being honest, you haven’t a clue, have you?

How does it work? You make a database of every resident of every nursing home, you have a dedicated team looking after this. You ask the administrative team in each nursing home to update any new residents/residents that pass away ASAP. You set up something similar with GPs around the country for their patients who are over 60/vulnerable. This could have been collated from May onwards.

You make a database of all frontline HSE staff, you have a dedicated team looking after this. You ask the clinical admin staff to update any new staff/retirements. This, realistically, should exist anyway.

fin12

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

It’s just their job. The reason for closing the economy and locking down is to protect the population. The American approach is to put the economy above all other considerations.

This isn’t really the tread for this topic. There must be loads of threads for generic whinging about government’s lack of compassion[/QUOT

U then turning around to someone saying they don’t care about people.

Take a look in the mirror.

bucketybuck

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Of course you don’t care about people ... unless they’re dying.

The government is charged with caring about people and handling the pandemic effectively. Luckily, it’s their job to care about people getting sick (even if they don’t actually die).

Fanaticise all you like, if it makes you happy. Just don’t actually expect things to go back to normal when just the over 70s and vulnerable are vaccinated. It’ll be a longer process than that in reality.

A reminder. My original point was that if the vaccine works then the vulnerable people will stop getting sick and dying, thus removing the need for restrictions. Such a simple point, easily understood.

But instead of saying, "yes that is logical and would be a good thing", your reaction is to keep hinting that there is some other need for the restrictions. The numbers of people sick and dying would have decreased but you would still want the restrictions in place for some vague reason.

It is an example of the twisted mentality prevalent in parts of society today. Its like some sort of misery addiction, a stockholm syndrome where the root cause of the misery no longer exists but people want the misery to continue anyway.

You can call it a fantasy all you want, cling to your misery all you want, but I am confident that this statement is clearly and obviously true, "When the numbers of people being admitted to hospital or dying with Covid fall to minimal, then there will be no reason not to go back to normal."

Drifter50

emmalynn19 wrote: »

Did you know they sell beer in closed vessels such as cans and bottles now? Keeps the beer fresh, all the carbonation inside, and makes beer real easy to handle and transport - its an incredible invention really.

Not sure what point you are making here. I think we all know "beer is sold in closed vessels such as cans and bottles" If anyone wants to buy bottles or cans there are thousands of supermarkets and off licences selling it. What this thread is about is discussing the pubs reopening. Unfortunately for reasons that are clear this would seem to be some time away from now in the future.

Does anyone for certain know what the story is with takeaway pints. I know Gavin Reilly of TV3 asked An Taoiseach yesterday about it at the press conference and was told " you need to forget about takeaway pints" Subsequently according to his twitter Gavin Reilly suggested that would need a change in licensing rules. I got takeaway pint the last couple of evenings but earlier this evening the publican was very anxious when I was there and was reminding all customers to take it home"

El_Duderino 09

weldoninhio wrote: »

How does it work? You make a database of every resident of every nursing home, you have a dedicated team looking after this. You ask the administrative team in each nursing home to update any new residents/residents that pass away ASAP. You set up something similar with GPs around the country for their patients who are over 60/vulnerable. This could have been collated from May onwards.

You make a database of all frontline HSE staff, you have a dedicated team looking after this. You ask the clinical admin staff to update any new staff/retirements. This, realistically, should exist anyway.

I have some knowledge of how that works in another department with residential service users and it’s actually a big job. There isn’t a database which all care homes and central giver can simple access for reasons including security. So it means either building an integrated system (notoriously high failure rate for custom designed systems like that) or using excel spreadsheets and relying on each care home sending accurate information every day (it’s only an annoyance to the staff isn’t he care homes who have other things to be doing)

So let’s assume you’ve solved the problem for care homes (you haven’t, but let’s pretend you have). Care homes are only a small part of the national rollout. How would you solve the much bigger problem of normal people all over the place? Then what about vulnerable people living all over the country? People with intellectual disabilities who have control over their own healthcare? People who are shielding? Those who live in rural areas and can’t travel? Those who aren’t good with computers and the internet?

Truth is that these things are far, far more complicated than people imagine. Government don’t always get things right first time, but the job is never as simple as people think.

El_Duderino 09

fin12 wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

It’s just their job. The reason for closing the economy and locking down is to protect the population. The American approach is to put the economy above all other considerations.

This isn’t really the tread for this topic. There must be loads of threads for generic whinging about government’s lack of compassion

U then turning around to someone saying they don’t care about people.

Take a look in the mirror.

That poster I was replying to said they don’t care about people getting covid unless they we’re dying. They actually said that, if you can believe it.

El_Duderino 09

bucketybuck wrote: »

...

You can call it a fantasy all you want, cling to your misery all you want, but I am confident that this statement is clearly and obviously true, "When the numbers of people being admitted to hospital or dying with Covid fall to minimal, then there will be no reason not to go back to normal."

Yeah if you only vaccinate the over 70s and vulnerable, and you go back to normal and let the virus rip through the community, then the numbers of hospitalisations will skyrocket. That’s the bit you’re not getting.

Vaccinating the vulnerable groups is good. But the vulnerable groups aren’t the only people who get sick and need hospital treatment. They know some of the reasons some people get sick and die, but they don’t know why loads of them get sicker then others. They will never allow the virus to rip through the population.

That’s why distancing and masks will be necessary until the virus is gone. Allowing it to rip through the population just isn’t a runner. But, if you enjoy the fantasy of normality in a few months, go for it. It’s an attractive fantasy and I see the appeal.

weldoninhio

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I have some knowledge of how that works in another department with residential service users and it’s actually a big job. There isn’t a database which all care homes and central giver can simple access for reasons including security. So it means either building an integrated system (notoriously high failure rate for custom designed systems like that) or using excel spreadsheets and relying on each care home sending accurate information every day (it’s only an annoyance to the staff isn’t he care homes who have other things to be doing)

So let’s assume you’ve solved the problem for care homes (you haven’t, but let’s pretend you have). Care homes are only a small part of the national rollout. How would you solve the much bigger problem of normal people all over the place? Then what about vulnerable people living all over the country? People with intellectual disabilities who have control over their own healthcare? People who are shielding? Those who live in rural areas and can’t travel? Those who aren’t good with computers and the internet?

Truth is that these things are far, far more complicated than people imagine. Government don’t always get things right first time, but the job is never as simple as people think.

I know there is no database, that’s why I suggested starting this in May, 8 months ago.

All those vulnerable/shielding people have GPs. The GP would send a list of all over 60s/vulnerable, as per my post.

Did you bother reading it at all??

So Irish, a problem for every solution.

bucketybuck

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah if you only vaccinate the over 70s and vulnerable, and you go back to normal and let the virus rip through the community, then the numbers of hospitalisations will skyrocket. That’s the bit you’re not getting.

Vaccinating the vulnerable groups is good. But the vulnerable groups aren’t the only people who get sick and need hospital treatment. They know some of the reasons some people get sick and die, but they don’t know why loads of them get sicker then others. They will never allow the virus to rip through the population.

That’s why distancing and masks will be necessary until the virus is gone. Allowing it to rip through the population just isn’t a runner. But, if you enjoy the fantasy of normality in a few months, go for it. It’s an attractive fantasy and I see the appeal.

You continue to miss the point and argue with yourself about things I never said.

You seem to believe that if the number of deaths dropped to effectively zero, and that if the number of hospitalisations dropped to effectively zero, that we should still be scared because...why exactly?

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

That poster I was replying to said they don’t care about people getting covid unless they we’re dying. They actually said that, if you can believe it.

And I'll say it again.

If Covid is spreading but nobody is actually getting sick and dying then further restrictions will not be justified.

How is that even debatable? So at some point Dr Tony is on the TV saying that deaths are zero and hospitalisations are now minimal, but you will be sitting at home saying that "no, that doesn't matter, we need to stay locked down!!!".

Because that is nuts.

bucketybuck

weldoninhio wrote: »

I know there is no database, that’s why I suggested starting this in May, 8 months ago.

All those vulnerable/shielding people have GPs. The GP would send a list of all over 60s/vulnerable, as per my post.

Did you bother reading it at all??

So Irish, a problem for every solution.

You don't understand, its haaard. Its complicated and its difficult and its haaard. :rolleyes:

Dickie10

wow really is hard to consider there going to write off another summer but i think thats whats going to happen. no concerts, music festivals, matches in GAA, comedy gigs, theatre crazy when you think it. I really do find it scary to think that Tony will ever believe a gig in O2 arena, a nightclub or music festival will ever be safe again. i think i will spend the summer in majorca and england for weekends.

PTH2009

Dickie10 wrote: »

wow really is hard to consider there going to write off another summer but i think thats whats going to happen. no concerts, music festivals, matches in GAA, comedy gigs, theatre crazy when you think it. I really do find it scary to think that Tony will ever believe a gig in O2 arena, a nightclub or music festival will ever be safe again. i think i will spend the summer in majorca and england for weekends.

Yeah its so scary and sad that this will be the case even with the vaccines

We all know it wont happen but its time for all those leaders in the hospitality/entertainment/arts etc sectors get together and lobby to get the sectors back open for the summer.

hynesie08

PTH2009 wrote: »

Yeah its so scary and sad that this will be the case even with the vaccines

We all know it wont happen but its time for all those leaders in the hospitality/entertainment/arts etc sectors get together and lobby to get the sectors back open for the summer.

And when they're told no?

Lobbying without leverage is just moaning.....

Drifter50

Dickie10 wrote: »

wow really is hard to consider there going to write off another summer but i think thats whats going to happen. no concerts, music festivals, matches in GAA, comedy gigs, theatre crazy when you think it. I really do find it scary to think that Tony will ever believe a gig in O2 arena, a nightclub or music festival will ever be safe again. i think i will spend the summer in majorca and england for weekends.

Yep, I think you are on the right track there. Also the inside events with recreation that are currently restricted that you don`t even think about, conferences, bridge clubs, chess clubs, brownies, scouts, business groups. It goes on and on.
Vaccination of 20,000 week, 85,000 per month 1,040,000 per annum, it will take 5 years to get through the population and no one can say business can go on hold for 5 years.

SteM

Drifter50 wrote: »

Yep, I think you are on the right track there. Also the inside events with recreation that are currently restricted that you don`t even think about, conferences, bridge clubs, chess clubs, brownies, scouts, business groups. It goes on and on.
Vaccination of 20,000 week, 85,000 per month 1,040,000 per annum, it will take 5 years to get through the population and no one can say business can go on hold for 5 years.

I'd imagine that the numbers of vaccinations per week will increase, it won't stay at 20000 as more vaccines get approved.

Macy0161

The main problem is supply of the vaccine(s), rather than distribution.

I have gig/ festival tickets carried over from 2020, have children and family in indoor activities, which I all want to go ahead this year (so I'm not some misery junkie suffering from Stockholm syndrome). I want to get back to some kind of normal (with keeping a lot of the remote working personally!).

However, just because the elderly and those with underlying conditions are most at risk, the risk isn't zero for the rest of the population of getting severe or long covid. It's bordering on the conspiracy theorists/ anti-masker/ anti-vaxxer not to see this imo. Healthy mid-40's fella going into March that I know got Covid, he's still f*cked from it.

bucketybuck

Drifter50 wrote: »

Vaccination of 20,000 week, 85,000 per month 1,040,000 per annum, it will take 5 years to get through the population and no one can say business can go on hold for 5 years.

They don't need to.

The vaccine will quite rightly be targeted at vulnerable people, so the numbers being affected in that group will naturally start to decline.

Then you have the people who already caught the virus, officially around 130k so far but we all know the real figure is higher than that.

Now add in the 6k per day who are catching the virus currently. Some are affected by it, the vast majority are not, either way the numbers of people already exposed continues to grow, 6000 new cases a day is around 180000 cases a month, 2 million a year.

Between vaccinating the vulnerable and hundreds of thousands of people already exposed to the virus, logic says we will reach herd immunity a lot quicker than 5 years time, whether we want to or not.

weldoninhio

Macy0161 wrote: »

The main problem is supply of the vaccine(s), rather than distribution.

I have gig/ festival tickets carried over from 2020, have children and family in indoor activities, which I all want to go ahead this year (so I'm not some misery junkie suffering from Stockholm syndrome). I want to get back to some kind of normal (with keeping a lot of the remote working personally!).

However, just because the elderly and those with underlying conditions are most at risk, the risk isn't zero for the rest of the population of getting severe or long covid. It's bordering on the conspiracy theorists/ anti-masker/ anti-vaxxer not to see this imo. Healthy mid-40's fella going into March that I know got Covid, he's still f*cked from it.

And another one. Maybe boards has something to do with "long Covid"??

Scoundrel

Drifter50 wrote: »

Yep, I think you are on the right track there. Also the inside events with recreation that are currently restricted that you don`t even think about, conferences, bridge clubs, chess clubs, brownies, scouts, business groups. It goes on and on.
Vaccination of 20,000 week, 85,000 per month 1,040,000 per annum, it will take 5 years to get through the population and no one can say business can go on hold for 5 years.

People will not tolerate being locked up for another 5 years so they can park that nonsense very quickly I'd say they have till the summer to get the house in order.

DeanAustin

Scoundrel wrote: »

People will not tolerate being locked up for another 5 years so they can park that nonsense very quickly I'd say they have till the summer to get the house in order.

No one has put "that nonsense" out there bar a poster on here. If anyone seriously thinks it'll take 5 years to vaccinate the population, they really don't understand how this works.

The vaccinations are already ramping up and will ramp up further.

PommieBast

Drifter50 wrote: »

Vaccination of 20,000 week, 85,000 per month 1,040,000 per annum, it will take 5 years to get through the population and no one can say business can go on hold for 5 years.

A lot of businesses will already be irrecoverably underwater. I see that the government is leaning on the banks for another loan repayment break, which is basically putting off the inevitable.

Tenzor07

Drifter50 wrote: »

Vaccination of 20,000 week, 85,000 per month 1,040,000 per annum, it will take 5 years to get through the population and no one can say business can go on hold for 5 years.

Funny you should say that, Government minister Norma Foley was on Prime Time last-night saying they would have 1 million people vaccinated by June 2022....
......before the RTE presenter said June 2021.... Hmmm....

Hellokitty1212

That presenter in the orange last night must be related to someone in RTE - she was dreadful!