Electricity supplier

Black_Knight

I use, cheers covid, about 4400kWh a year.

Mileage is low anyways, but Having bought the car in 2019 (with some free charging to be fair) I've used 2k kWh at home. 100kWh a month wouldn't be far off things, so 1200kWh annually. Let's say 2/3 of that could be done at the weekend. 800kWh.

I've been using maybe 700kWh on laundry (about 2/3 of which is night rate). I'd guess half that could be done at the weekend. We've a few washes and dries a week here as is. 350kWh.

Dishwasher twice a week at 1kWh a go. All night rate runs. Half on the weekend is 50kWh.

Running total of 1300kWh I could switch to weekends. Not sure what our "other" amounts to to get 2/7 of it, but I'd imagine 900 kWh for misc on an average weekend. 2100kWh for the year so, free!

Leaving 2300kWh at ~21c/kWh. That's under €500 + standing order and PSO levy for the year. Doesn't seem worth it to me. Our electricity for the last 2 years has been around €700 per annum.

With a bigger battery car, capable of 1 big charge a week, but you're only saving ~8c/kWh switching your night rate things to the weekend. If you've a fish tank or an energy hungry home/weekend home hobby that'd make a dent.

Either way, I don't have a smart meter, but It'd certainly be interesting to see usage patterns if they can make your own usage metrics available

AndyBoBandy

I worked out a few weeks ago that on average, I was using around 7.5kWh per day... so let’s say for argumysake I’d need 35-40kWh to run the house Monday - Friday....

3 Tesla Power Walls would give me ~39kWh of storage.....

In terms of cycling the batteries, they’d each only see around 52 cycles per year, so they should last long.....


Tempting....

Kramer

Black_Knight wrote: »

Doesn't seem worth it to me.

At those rates, it won't be worth it for anyone.

But, smart meters will be marketed as "money saving" & non smart metered customers will just have to pay more, to facilitate that.
What are they costing again? €500 each?

That's gonna mean €1 billion, or more, needs to be recouped, ultimately, from customers.

Most EVs need most of the current, 8 hour overnight rate to fully charge. Charging slightly less for 2-4am is meaningless, especially when charging more for the remaining hours.

We'll just end up with 1000s of more tariffs & confusion, ultimately paying more.

Kramer

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

I worked out a few weeks ago that on average, I was using around 7.5kWh per day... so let’s say for argumysake I’d need 35-40kWh to run the house Monday - Friday....

3 Tesla Power Walls would give me ~39kWh of storage.....

Tempting....

You'd pay €30,000+ for battery storage, to save €300 per year?
100 years+ payback - will they last that long?

:P.

graememk

The prices are on par with EI standard unit rates.

The only way they compete with the others is by offering a big cash back

the_amazing_raisin

Kramer wrote: »

You'd pay €30,000+ for battery storage, to save €300 per year?
100 years+ payback - will they last that long?

:P.

Could get 48kWh of storage for €20k

Only 66 years payback now

AndyBoBandy

Kramer wrote: »

You'd pay €30,000+ for battery storage, to save €300 per year?
100 years+ payback - will they last that long?

:P.

I’d be more thinking in a few years a 2nd hand/scrap EV with a decent sized battery in it..

the_amazing_raisin

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

I’d be more thinking in a few years a 2nd hand/scrap EV with a decent sized battery in it..

Hopefully the ioniq 5 sets the standard and v2l becomes common on EVs in future

Then you don't need a scrap EV, just an excuse to treat yourself to a new one

slave1

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

I worked out a few weeks ago that on average, I was using around 7.5kWh per day... so let’s say for argumysake I’d need 35-40kWh to run the house Monday - Friday....

3 Tesla Power Walls would give me ~39kWh of storage.....

In terms of cycling the batteries, they’d each only see around 52 cycles per year, so they should last long.....


Tempting....

Kramer wrote: »

You'd pay €30,000+ for battery storage, to save €300 per year?
100 years+ payback - will they last that long?

:P.

The ESB won’t allow Powerwalls to be grid tied so never going to happen in any case, hence not available in Ireland

the_amazing_raisin

slave1 wrote: »

The ESB won’t allow Powerwalls to be grid tied so never going to happen in any case, hence not available in Ireland

I thought they're okay if there's anti islanding systems installed to cut the battery from the grid in the even of a power outage?

slave1

AFAIK even with this the Powerwalls don't satisfy ESB requirements, could be totally wrong

Caillte

Yup these rates (and BGs) are absolutely utter crap. I have 14c/kWh currently with BG standard so ill stick with that.

Black_Knight wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0225/1199450-electricity-smart-meters-go-live-for-250-000-households/

Smart meter plans going live, at least with Electric Ireland. Vague details of what sounds like the existing night rate hours, and a 2am-4am rate too (just over 5c/kWh).

Home electric+ Night booster is the plan.
Including vat, the rates are... ****e:

Day rate 20.94 c/kWh
Night rate 10.78 c/kWh
2 hours of "boost" rate 2-4am 5.82 c/kWh

Urban standing charge €235.14
Rural standing charge €295.83

€265 welcome bonus


They do have a Home electric+ weekender package too. Basically, Free electricity on the weekend.

Day rate: 20.63 c/kWh
Night rate: 20.63 c/kWh
Sat/Sun: Free 0c/kWh

Urban standing charge: €173.25
Rural standing charge: €228.56

the_amazing_raisin

I wonder how bonkers.ie will handle the new smart meters, the usual breakdown of how much you use at night doesn't really apply with multiple rates

Maybe your supplier will save your usage data for a year in some easy to download format which you can then send to a price comparision website

liamog

slave1 wrote: »

AFAIK even with this the Powerwalls don't satisfy ESB requirements, could be totally wrong

They allow batteries for solar installations, is there something specific about the powerwall that prevents their use, or is it just a sign off hoop that Tesla haven't got round to?

slave1

Shameful, Energia's EV rates are 16.64c day and 4.79c night inc VAT

slave1

liamog wrote: »

They allow batteries for solar installations, is there something specific about the powerwall that prevents their use, or is it just a sign off hoop that Tesla haven't got round to?

From stuff in the back of my head I thought it was their 7kWh peak output that nailed them in Ireland.
This is largely academic though, I can't see much uptake here

the_amazing_raisin

slave1 wrote: »

From stuff in the back of my head I thought it was their 7kWh peak output that nailed them in Ireland.
This is largely academic though, I can't see much uptake here

I saw a video from when Robert from Fully Charged got a powerwall 2 installed. He got this hub thingy from Tesla which is basically a fancy anti-islanding system which allows the powerwall to supply the house in a power cut


I know the requirements from the ESB are different and I've no idea if the powerwall 2 matches these requirements


Don't see the attraction of the powerwall tbh, solar batteries can be sourced cheaper and there doesn't seem to be any advantage to the powerwall other than the Tesla badge on the front

Kramer

cruisey1987 wrote: »

I wonder how bonkers.ie will handle the new smart meters, the usual breakdown of how much you use at night doesn't really apply with multiple rates

Maybe your supplier will save your usage data for a year in some easy to download format which you can then send to a price comparision website

Kramer wrote: »

We'll just end up with 1000s of more tariffs & confusion, ultimately paying more.

Rates will creep up for the majority & it'll just become more confusing for the smarter bears, who switch every year .

the_amazing_raisin

Kramer wrote: »

Rates will creep up for the majority & it'll just become more confusing for the smarter bears, who switch every year .

I feel like most people will stick with a day/night tariff for simplicity. For anyone willing to go into the details then energy monitoring and moving energy intensive tasks around will become important


I reckon there's going to be a whole generation of smart energy controller products coming out in the next few years which will be aware of energy tariffs and will control consumers to optimise consumption as much as possible.



We've already got washing machines, dishwasher, EVs and heat pumps that can be controlled remotely, so it's just a matter of tying it into an automation framework.

Caillte

Kramer wrote: »

Rates will creep up for the majority & it'll just become more confusing for the smarter bears, who switch every year .

I switch every year and looking at the smart meter tariffs this morning was a complete head wrecker. Some smart people (not me) will do a google spread sheet where you can just pope in your usage and out pops the best tariff.

darrenheaphy

slave1 wrote: »

Shameful, Energia's EV rates are 16.64c day and 4.79c night inc VAT

Is there an EV specific price plan or something? Looking at Bonkers.ie the Energia seems the best but is at a 14.22 cent per kWh (day rate) and 6.82 cent per kWh (night rate). Currently am on SEE which is 18.64c day and 9.23c night

stimpson

I changed from Energia to Bord Gais today on bonkers. And I did a spreadsheet with last years usage, checked against the numbers bonkers gave me.

Energia were slightly more expensive on day rate and slightly cheaper for night rate:

Day 13.81
Night 6.62

Vs

Day 13.68
Night 6.78

There was less than €2 in the difference over a year (based off my usage of 5886 kWh day/3491 kWh night)

For gas it was a different story: 3:63 vs 3.18.

All in, Bord Gais were almost €140 cheaper over the full year.

graememk

stimpson wrote: »

I changed from Energia to Bord Gais today on bonkers. And I did a spreadsheet with last years usage, checked against the numbers bonkers gave me.

Energia were slightly more expensive on day rate and slightly cheaper for night rate:

Day 13.81
Night 6.62

Vs

Day 13.68
Night 6.78

There was less than €2 in the difference over a year (based off my usage of 5886 kWh day/3491 kWh night)

For gas it was a different story: 3:63 vs 3.18.

All in, Bord Gais were almost €140 cheaper over the full year.

you might get a call from energia trying to make you stay with a cashback offer.

Black_Knight

graememk wrote: »

you might get a call from energia trying to make you stay with a cashback offer.

I never get calls, and not bothered about them. I've the effort of moving done at that stage and I've not heard of anyone getting a better rate than what is it there by switching. So if my current company can give me a sneaky rate over the phone, screw them, I've already left in my mind.

slave1

darrenheaphy wrote: »

Is there an EV specific price plan or something? Looking at Bonkers.ie the Energia seems the best but is at a 14.22 cent per kWh (day rate) and 6.82 cent per kWh (night rate). Currently am on SEE which is 18.64c day and 9.23c night

Yes there is an EV plan, you must have a home Chargepoint installed. It’s new so probably not on Bonkers yet.

stimpson

graememk wrote: »

you might get a call from energia trying to make you stay with a cashback offer.

I rang them twice and pressed them for a better deal but they wouldn’t budge. It’s a pity as I liked the features on the website and found their customer service to be pretty good.

graememk

slave1 wrote: »

Yes there is an EV plan, you must have a home Chargepoint installed. It’s new so probably not on Bonkers yet.

Yeah it's not on bonkers.
They can't prove you don't have an ev charger. So that's just a paper excercise...

unkel

I did a quick break even analysis between the best energia rates and their new EV rates mentioned in the above few posts. If you use a bit more than 50% of all your units in the night rate period of 9 hours, then you will be better off with the EV rate.

Obviously for some of us with batteries and 70, 80, 90, even almost 100% of units used at night rate, this new EV rate represents a significant saving (and a faster pay back time of the battery than previously foreseen). I'm looking forward to variable rates of electricity between minus €0.02 and plus €1.00 or so per kWh to reflect the real cost of the electricity that we use, so that we get maximum carrot for using electricity when it is plentiful and fully renewable and that we get maximum stick for when gas / coal are being burnt

I only recently switched to Energia, might give them a call today see if they can migrate me over (without penalty), I'll get back here with an update

jspuds

Currently have the Bord Gais -28% offer so works out at approx 13.68 day & 6.77 night which runs out next month.

I'm tempted by the Energia EV plan but am reluctant to change as use Tesco vouchers against my Bord Gais bill.

Any suggestions?

unkel

jspuds wrote: »

Any suggestions?

Do the maths. What discount do those Tesco vouchers give you per year (as in extra discount over alternative use like getting a discount in store). And what savings would you make on that cheaper night rate with the Energia EV scheme? Compare those two.