Electricity supplier

Looking around again and it seems Energia has slipped a few ranks.

Energia are charging around 20.9 Cent Day and 10.5 Cent Night and with the drop in energy costs I find that pretty poor, now I don't know if they are showing the so called discount you get but they don't show anything on my bill except units used, the cost and the total bill etc.

This is a new one for me ?

https://www.iberdrola.es/

JPA

Discounts expire. You need to renegotiate or change supplier. I have read some nightmare stories about iberdrola, some here on boards.

Black_Knight

JPA wrote: »

Discounts expire. You need to renegotiate or change supplier. I have read some nightmare stories about iberdrola, some here on boards.

I've heard them too, but it didn't stop me signing my MIL up to them. Good rates to be fair, and not had to ring them as yet.

redcup342

I went with Maingau :pac: 30 cent / kWh for home and 25 cent / kWh for the car in the whole of Europe. :pac:

I called up Energia and haggled and got a cheaper rate.

18.32 Day
8.79 Night

I'm going to be using a good bit more now since I no longer have work charging. I'd consider Solar PV if there was a FIT, no point having solar PV when the excess goes to the grid for free.

Nedved85

Check bonkers.ie

eagerv

Deleted User wrote: »

I called up Energia and haggled and got a cheaper rate.

18.32 Day
8.79 Night

I'm going to be using a good bit more now since I no longer have work charging. I'd consider Solar PV if there was a FIT, no point having solar PV when the excess goes to the grid for free.

I am not at home at the moment but I thought our Energia prices were about 15.5/7.4 incl VAT.


We changed to them sometime in March/April

eagerv

eagerv wrote: »

I am not at home at the moment but I thought our Energia prices were about 15.5/7.4 incl VAT.


We changed to them sometime in March/April

I don't think so, their rates are a good bit higher than that without haggling.

Perhaps you got lucky but check your bill and check that rates after VAT, that's what I'm getting above inc VAT.

liamog

Energia as advertised on their website https://www.energia.ie/products/price-plans.

14.47c/kWh and 6.94c/kWh, including VAT.

The only discount you might miss is the 3% new customer discount which makes it 15.19c/kWh and 7.29c/kWh.

eagerv

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't think so, their rates are a good bit higher than that without haggling.

Perhaps you got lucky but check your bill and check that rates after VAT, that's what I'm getting above inc VAT.

The missus did an awful lot of checking (Incl Bonkers) and haggling at the time. Will check when get home, but afaik prices have come down slightly since we got.

liamog

liamog wrote: »

Energia as advertised on their website https://www.energia.ie/products/price-plans.

14.47c/kWh and 6.94c/kWh, including VAT.

Show me because I can't see it, if I find it I can cancel my current offer based on 14 day cooling off.

AndyBoBandy

Deleted User wrote: »

Show me because I can't see it, if I find it I can cancel my current offer based on 14 day cooling off.

Found this via Bonkers

liamog

What filters are you entering on that page? Enter it, then click update.
You should then see the 3 offers with an option to view rates.

Yep I see it and I called them up and they won't put me on that cheap rate because it's for new customers only so I told them to cancel my last update to the account which would put me on another years contract and I'll get the missus to sign up as a new customer.

I said to them this is unfair to treat existing customers like this. So I will cancel and get herself to set up new AC haha.

Will be a decent saving to us because of the face we use so much electricity and even more so now I no longer have free work charging.

eagerv

Also bear in mind there may be a limit of useage before you go into a slightly higher rate. Bonkers will work that out for you.
Ours was worked out at I think 3000 kWh night rate which may not be sufficient when we get our second EV. I also notice a lot more stuff working in our house now at night rate.

eagerv

eagerv wrote: »

Also bear in mind there may be a limit of useage before you go into a slightly higher rate. Bonkers will work that out for you.
Ours was worked out at I think 3000 kWh night rate which may not be sufficient when we get our second EV. I also notice a lot more stuff working in our house now at night rate.

Mine probably won't go over 3000 Kwh at night, even if I did it resets the next month so it wouldn't be that big a deal.

According to the bill from my own meter readings I used 1,127 night Kwh and 502 day from 1st May to 2nd July.

Next bill well see a full 2 months of driving on my own electricity so I expect this to be a good bit higher around 1500 maybe on night.

eagerv

Deleted User wrote: »

Mine probably won't go over 3000 Kwh at night, even if I did it resets the next month so it wouldn't be that big a deal.

According to the bill from my own meter readings I used 1,127 night Kwh and 502 day from 1st May to 2nd July.

Next bill well see a full 2 months of driving on my own electricity so I expect this to be a good bit higher around 1500 maybe on night.

I'm talking of per year..

eagerv

eagerv wrote: »

I'm talking of per year..

Sorry I’m lost, are you saying the limit is 3000 per bill or year on night rate ?

eagerv

Deleted User wrote: »

Sorry I’m lost, are you saying the limit is 3000 per bill or year on night rate ?

No, but after that it goes up by about half a cent I think.

zell12

New supplier Bright has below average unit pricing but lowest standing charge
https://brightenergy.com/roi/about/ourtariff

Customers will not be tied into a long-term contract and there are no exit fees if customers decide to leave.
https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/new-player-in-electricity-promising-big-discounts-39334427.html

Nedved85

Saw that Energia offer alright - It looks pretty good. We are paying €16.5c/kWh at the moment - contract is up in about two months.

We have a heat pump so a lot of our energy usage is during the day from October to March. Heat pump is more or less off bar heating water from April to Sept.

We average about 20/22kWh per day for those six months, most usage is during the day.

12-14kWh for April-Sept

Charge the car at work (when covid allows us to go back in to work..) mostly. Might charge it once a month at home.

Availability of charging at work was becoming a little tight as more EV's began to crop up in January.

In the current environment - car is charged once a week on average as we are getting back out of lockdown.

Will probably stick with standard 24h due to the heat pump being thirsty for 6 months

KCross

Nedved85 wrote: »

We have a heat pump so a lot of our energy usage is during the day from October to March. Heat pump is more or less off bar heating water from April to Sept.

We average about 20/22kWh per day for those six months, most usage is during the day.
Will probably stick with standard 24h due to the heat pump being thirsty for 6 months

Have you checked how much the heat pump and the rest of your house is consuming at night?

I'd be amazed if its not in your interest to use night rate.

Its also possible to shift some of the heat pump usage to night rate.

Nedved85

KCross wrote: »

Have you checked how much the heat pump and the rest of your house is consuming at night?

I'd be amazed if its not in your interest to use night rate.

Its also possible to shift some of the heat pump usage to night rate.

So currently the heat pump is more or less off at night, bar heating the hot water if it goes below a certain threshold (Early shower in the morning would kick it off)

The rest of the house is ticking over at 200 watts only.

I could change up my heat pump usage slightly to start off in the moring at say 6am to 8am and that would do a lot of the start of the day and it would kick in again in the evenng for another few hours. (I know people are not meant to micro manage heat pumo usage..)

We could also use the washing machine, dryer and dishwasher at night, no problem there.

And if we did have nught rate I would probably just charge the car at home for pure convenience instead of watching out for a free slot at work.

Nedved85

I think this calls for a sreadsheet

slave1

Just did my annual math, Energia the cheapest for me via Bonkers.
14.22c day inc VAT
6.82c night inc VAT

Night capped at 2,000units per bi-monthly billing cycle so I will breach that, even still they are the cheapest...

Black_Knight

slave1 wrote: »

Just did my annual math, Energia the cheapest for me via Bonkers.
14.22c day inc VAT
6.82c night inc VAT

Night capped at 2,000units per bi-monthly billing cycle so I will breach that, even still they are the cheapest...

That's big mileage! I've not even used 2k kWh since I've got an EV

slave1

slave1 wrote: »

Just did my annual math, Energia the cheapest for me via Bonkers.
14.22c day inc VAT
6.82c night inc VAT

Night capped at 2,000units per bi-monthly billing cycle so I will breach that, even still they are the cheapest...

I probably won't even breach the 2000 Kwh limit driving 140-152 Kms a day.... lol

Even if you do it's not too expensive and it resets each month.

unkel

Black_Knight wrote: »

That's big mileage!

2000 units per 2 monthly cycle is 12MWh per year

In a Tesla Model S say you average 20kWh / 100km, so that is 60k km per year just from your night rate home charging (presuming your other night rate use for your home is immaterial compared to your car charging)

Do you really do that sort of mileage per year, slave1?

Black_Knight

unkel wrote: »

2000 units per 2 monthly cycle is 12MWh per year

In a Tesla Model S say you average 20kWh / 100km, so that is 60k km per year just from your night rate home charging (presuming your other night rate use for your home is immaterial compared to your car charging)

Do you really do that sort of mileage per year, slave1?

And he's got free supercharging.

slave1

unkel wrote: »

2000 units per 2 monthly cycle is 12MWh per year

In a Tesla Model S say you average 20kWh / 100km, so that is 60k km per year just from your night rate home charging (presuming your other night rate use for your home is immaterial compared to your car charging)

Do you really do that sort of mileage per year, slave1?

Do about 26k in the Leaf, probably similar in the S then don’t forget dishwasher, washing machine, immersion and electric shower in mornings, all night rate

slave1

slave1 wrote: »

Do about 26k in the Leaf, probably similar in the S then don’t forget dishwasher, washing machine, immersion and electric shower in mornings, all night rate

Yeah I got all that and much higher mileage than you and no longer free work charging lol. + can't see you hitting 2000 Kwh at night.

KCross

Not that hard to hit 2000kWh in 2 months on night rate (30kWh per day) if you have an EV, a heat pump and you run appliances on night rate or if you are a 2 EV house.

I regularly go over the 2000kWh limit.

Nedved85

Nedved85 wrote: »

So currently the heat pump is more or less off at night, bar heating the hot water if it goes below a certain threshold (Early shower in the morning would kick it off)

The rest of the house is ticking over at 200 watts only.

I could change up my heat pump usage slightly to start off in the moring at say 6am to 8am and that would do a lot of the start of the day and it would kick in again in the evenng for another few hours. (I know people are not meant to micro manage heat pumo usage..)

We could also use the washing machine, dryer and dishwasher at night, no problem there.

And if we did have nught rate I would probably just charge the car at home for pure convenience instead of watching out for a free slot at work.

I think you'd be mad not to use the hp on some of the night rate, turn it on at 5 am and have the house warm on the cheaper rate so it might not have to work so hard for the rest of the day.

Washing machine, dishwasher, dryer etc they all add up, get them on the night rate.

We have a Bosch Heat Pump dryer, uses a sh1t lot less energy, might be worth considering when you existing one dies.

KCross

KCross wrote: »

Not that hard to hit 2000kWh in 2 months on night rate (30kWh per day) if you have an EV, a heat pump and you run appliances on night rate.

I regularly go over the 2000kWh limit.

I was forgetting that I'm only in the new job since end of May and changed energia to her name so I will monitor it more int he coming months now that I no longer have free work charging or any kind of work charging.

Nedved85

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think you'd be mad not to use the hp on some of the night rate, turn it on at 5 am and have the house warm on the cheaper rate so it might not have to work so hard for the rest of the day.

Washing machine, dishwasher, dryer etc they all add up, get them on the night rate.

We have a Bosch Heat Pump dryer, uses a sh1t lot less energy, might be worth considering when you existing one dies.

You might be right. Unfortunately, if I change now I'll have take out the brand new smart meter and get an old day/night meter. Then in the future pay to get the smart meter put back in when they are compatible with night metering (coming soon according to the esb...)

So I will hold off for another while yet.

Latest energia pricing is at 13c / kwh for 24h rate which is a good saving over our current plan of 16.5c. The standing charge is more expensive with Energia though.

Our washer, dryer and dishwasher are all A rated.. Forked out the bit extra for energy savings.

graememk

Nedved85 wrote: »

You might be right. Unfortunately, if I change now I'll have take out the brand new smart meter and get an old day/night meter. Then in the future pay to get the smart meter put back in when they are compatible with night metering (coming soon according to the esb...)

So I will hold off for another while yet.

They shouldn't charge you for putting a smart meter back. As they do eventually want them rolled out every where.

What's the smart meter like? What's the advantage of having it?

Nedved85

graememk wrote: »

What's the smart meter like? What's the advantage of having it?

I have not looked at it tbh.

Apparently they will be able to get the exact amount of energy used for each bill instead of reading it manually/guessing. Not sure if it is fully operational yet.

It will be compatible with night rate (in the future, judging by a letter in the door)

AndyBoBandy

Smart meters should also allow providers to offer multi time tariffs as opposed to just day & night rates.

KCross

graememk wrote: »

They shouldn't charge you for putting a smart meter back. As they do eventually want them rolled out every where.

What's the smart meter like? What's the advantage of having it?

It will allow you to view your energy usage in, I think, 30min intervals so you can then see where you are using (possibly wasting) energy.

And it will also allow you to track export to the grid for Solar PV... you have to pay €350 if you want a meter to do that today as the standard day/night meter doesnt do it.

From the ESB's perspective it means they dont have to send out meter readers. Its all done automatically... i.e. the meter "phones home". Meter reader is out of a job!

The smart meters will could mean higher energy bills because what they will do is charge more when there is less green energy on the grid to encourage more usage of green energy and charge less when there is more green energy on the grid, it's as simple as that, they can dress it up any way they want.

So in other words, the current Day/Night tariff we have will be gone, for those who accept a smart meter, remember there is absolutely no advantage to anyone having this and you have the right to refuse as I will be doing when they try get me to install it, so say now it doesn't matter whether there is green energy on the grid or not, at night my tariff is around 6.4 C/Kwh but what will happen is that they will charge me more at night when it's usually less windy and less green energy on the grid, and that will go the other way too during the day if there's more green energy on the grid the cost should be lower.

So I can see the current system of Day/Night being abolished but remember, you have the absolute right to refuse a smart meter.

KCross

Deleted User wrote: »

So I can see the current system of Day/Night being abolished but remember, you have the absolute right to refuse a smart meter.

On what basis?

You dont own the meter in the meter box. It belongs to ESB. They can do what they like with it.

KCross

Deleted User wrote: »

The smart meters will could mean higher energy bills because what they will do is charge more when there is less green energy on the grid to encourage more usage of green energy and charge less when there is more green energy on the grid, it's as simple as that, they can dress it up any way they want.

It could mean higher energy bills. It could also mean lower energy bills. The idea is that it can change your behaviour. If you dont adapt with it it probably will mean higher bills.

My understanding is that there will be 3 tariffs instead of todays 2. At least that was the proposal from the CRU. That might have changed since i read that.

What is unlikely to happen though is where they keep changing the price on a daily basis based on amount of wind blowing etc. I dont think the CRU will allow that as it would cause distress to the poor who could not manage their bills in that way and it would go against the idea of changing peoples behaviour since you would have to be constantly monitoring the grid to figure that out.

Ultimately what they want/need to do is, to borrow a Covid term, flatten the curve.... so that the grid doesnt have to have massive spikes once or twice a day.

KCross

KCross wrote: »

On what basis?

You dont own the meter in the meter box. It belongs to ESB. They can do what they like with it.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2016-11-29/707/?highlight%5B0%5D=richard&highlight%5B1%5D=boyd&highlight%5B2%5D=barrett&highlight%5B3%5D=smart&highlight%5B4%5D=meter

Regarding right of refusal, I have been informed by the Commission for Energy Regulation that a customer that does not want an upgraded meter will be able to decline to have this new meter installed. However, the intention is that the default for newly constructed dwellings or other premises, or where meters are due for replacement at the end of their life, will be the installation of a smart meter. Over time, every mechanical meter is likely to be replaced with this new generation technology.

However, forget all the wireless emissions bollocks, that's just nonsense, people will get far more electromagnetic radiation which by the way, is of the non ionising form from the mobile in their pocket or laptop on their lap.

That's on par with the anti 5G crowd and the funniest of all is that the 5G frequencies People object to are not even licensed for use in Ireland and radar cruise control works up to 70 Ghz way higher than 5G will even eventually use but they don't think about that.

Anyway, the point of the link isn't to scare People from wireless emissions which is nonsense, I just linked to it because it shows that you do not have to accept a Smart Meter under any circumstances no matter what the ESB say but those in new installations will not have a choice.

KCross

KCross wrote: »

It could mean higher energy bills. It could also mean lower energy bills. The idea is that it can change your behaviour. If you dont adapt with it it probably will mean higher bills.

My understanding is that there will be 3 tariffs instead of todays 2. At least that was the proposal from the CRU. That might have changed since i read that.

What is unlikely to happen though is where they keep changing the price on a daily basis based on amount of wind blowing etc. I dont think the CRU will allow that as it would cause distress to the poor who could not manage their bills in that way and it would go against the idea of changing peoples behaviour since you would have to be constantly monitoring the grid to figure that out.

Ultimately what they want/need to do is, to borrow a Covid term, flatten the curve.... so that the grid doesnt have to have massive spikes once or twice a day.

No they won't change the price on a daily basis but I can definitely see a move to where it's cheaper for the consumer when there is more green energy compared to when there is much less, so that will mean it could mean that the current night rate is removed and replaced with the system where Day/Night is cheaper only when there is more green energy on the grid.

What that could encourage though is the use of electric heating during the day time, make it cheaper if the wind is blowing, I would love to get away from oil heating and big ugly rads and replace them with electric heating which is easy controllable via a simple room stat vs a big central system be it heat pump or not, I know the Heat Pump would be more efficient but the cost of installation is huge but they are getting better now and can even replace an oil boiler directly as they can heat water up to 65 Deg C now I believe which is a massive improvement and meaning floors don't have to be dug up etc.

The only real issue in your typical Irish heating system is lack of proper heating control, still the switch to HP and a system where you can run it cheaper with green energy would be good, the option to export your own solar PV or wind would also be a real welcome in Ireland where you can export all your excess in the warmer months and buy it back in the colder months when you need it.

KCross

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2016-11-29/707/?highlight%5B0%5D=richard&highlight%5B1%5D=boyd&highlight%5B2%5D=barrett&highlight%5B3%5D=smart&highlight%5B4%5D=meter

Regarding right of refusal, I have been informed by the Commission for Energy Regulation that a customer that does not want an upgraded meter will be able to decline to have this new meter installed. However, the intention is that the default for newly constructed dwellings or other premises, or where meters are due for replacement at the end of their life, will be the installation of a smart meter. Over time, every mechanical meter is likely to be replaced with this new generation technology.
.

They'll probably get you on this one though...

"... or where meters are due for replacement at the end of their life"


And your providers will also probably get you by giving you an unfavourable rate if you dont have a smart meter.

KCross

Deleted User wrote: »

No they won't change the price on a daily basis but I can definitely see a move to where it's cheaper for the consumer when there is more green energy compared to when there is much less, so that will mean it could mean that the current night rate is removed and replaced with the system where Day/Night is cheaper only when there is more green energy on the grid.

But how would you do that unless its daily pricing?

It could be blowing a gale tonight at 3am with loads of green energy and tomorrow it could be blowing a gale at 6pm?!


I would expect the smart meter based tariffs to be based around flattening the curve and reducing reliance on peaker plants not based around when green energy is being generated.

joeysoap

My contract ended in April. Phoned Energia for a new deal, very apologetic guy said the best he could give was 10%. I told him there was much better on Bonkers - Energia weren’t on it- and I was leaving. He hoped I’d return next year as a new customer So they were quite willing to lose the year.

Anyway Electronic Ireland were the best at the time. The real difference is the standing charge.



14.20 cent ex VAT 16.12 cent inc VAT

Price plan
SuperSaver (Direct Debit & Online Billing) (Electricity only)
Annual standing charge
€91.35 ex VAT €103.68 inc VAT

I probably will return to Energia or SSE next year ( depends)

liamog

KCross wrote: »

But how would you do that unless its daily pricing?

It could be blowing a gale tonight at 3am with loads of green energy and tomorrow it could be blowing a gale at 6pm?!

Given that our civil servants mostly copy their homework from the UK ...

It will probably end up like the Octopus Agile tarrif.
https://octopus.energy/agile/

Prices are set in 30 min increments 24h in advance. Your smart equipment can then identify the best times of the day to be using it's electric

KCross

joeysoap wrote: »

My contract ended in April. Phoned Energia for a new deal, very apologetic guy said the best he could give was 10%. I told him there was much better on Bonkers - Energia weren’t on it- and I was leaving. He hoped I’d return next year as a new customer So they were quite willing to lose the year.

Its a PITA but yea that seems to be what they all do. They hope you couldnt be bothered switching and they stick to the script and will let you switch.

The end result is that if you want the cheapest rates you have to switch every year to get the "New customer" discount.... thats just the way it is and I've been flip/flopping between airtricity and energia every year for years.

KCross

liamog wrote: »

Given that our civil servants mostly copy their homework from the UK ...

It will probably end up like the Octopus Agile tarrif.
https://octopus.energy/agile/

Prices are set in 30 min increments 24h in advance. Your smart equipment can then identify the best times of the day to be using it's electric

Yea, thats how it should be done alright but CRU intimated that they werent willing to do that as it would disproportionally affect poorer people who cant afford to invest in smart equipment around the house... ultimately I guess it will be like octupus but initially they were just talking about having 3 static timeframes in a 24hr period instead of the 2 we have today. That was a few years ago now that I read that, so lets see what they actually come up with.

At this point the operators cant even do day/night rate on the smart meters... its 24hr rate only! :rolleyes:

liamog

That's annoying, they should go for a hybrid system. Agile tariffs for people who can take advantage of them, and fixed time based tariffs for others, where the price only changes when you renew the contract.