Electricity supplier

TitianGerm

Finally doing the sums on a new electricity plan.

At the moment I pay 18.16c per unit of electricity and €221 for my standing charge. After checking my meter 19% of my usage is at the night rate since we moved in.

With the ID3 I expect my night usage to increase a fair bit as I will be topping the car up once a week or so.

On Bonkers I'm comparing the Average Rate and Day/Night Rate Energia 41% tariff. I'm looking at the standing charge and thinking that after 15-20 charges the higher standing charge will earned back due to the difference in the Energia unit rates so anything over that means I'd save more by moving to a Day/Night rate?

graememk

TitianGerm wrote: »

Finally doing the sums on a new electricity plan.

At the moment I pay 18.16c per unit of electricity and €221 for my standing charge. After checking my meter 19% of my usage is at the night rate since we moved in.

With the ID3 I expect my night usage to increase a fair bit as I will be topping the car up once a week or so.

On Bonkers I'm comparing the Average Rate and Day/Night Rate Energia 41% tariff. I'm looking at the standing charge and thinking that after 15-20 charges the higher standing charge will earned back due to the difference in the Energia unit rates so anything over that means I'd save more by moving to a Day/Night rate?

Yeah, i think the balancing point is about 30% night rate and with the car, it will easily make up the 11% needed for you to break even.

More Km's you do the more it works out in your favour.

From my energy monitor, you can clearly see what days we charge!

TitianGerm

graememk wrote: »

Yeah, i think the balancing point is about 30% night rate and with the car, it will easily make up the 11% needed for you to break even.

More Km's you do the more it works out in your favour.

From my energy monitor, you can clearly see what days we charge!

Over the course of a year I think I'll get there. Either way both energia rates are cheaper than my current one so I'll be saving money (or charging the car for free).

the_amazing_raisin

Looks like the first time of use tariffs are coming next year

https://www.bonkers.ie/blog/gas-electricity/smart-electricity-tariffs-are-coming-here-s-everything-you-need-to-know/

You'll need a smart meter, and no mention of which suppliers, but it could be a step towards even more savings with an EV

Gael23

What’s the difference between day/night tariff and night saver?

the_amazing_raisin

Gael23 wrote: »

What’s the difference between day/night tariff and night saver?

None, different names for the same thing

Night storage meters however are different, that's when you have a dedicated meter for storage heaters

Gael23

cruisey1987 wrote: »

None, different names for the same thing

Night storage meters however are different, that's when you have a dedicated meter for storage heaters

Would you sneed. New meter installed?

graememk

Gael23 wrote: »

Would you sneed. New meter installed?

Maybe, if you're meter is a new-ish digital one that can already display night units, it's just a change of what is read.

If it's an old disc one, it will need changed, still free though

the_amazing_raisin

graememk wrote: »

Maybe, if you're meter is a new-ish digital one that can already display night units, it's just a change of what is read.

If it's an old disc one, it will need changed, still free though

+1

I've a new digital meter but they still send someone out even though it's basically a paper exercise

The "modification" the engineer made was to write instructions on the meter on how to take the night reading

Very technical stuff!

Gael23

Is it still better to have a night saver meter even though the standing charge is higher?

graememk

Gael23 wrote: »

Is it still better to have a night saver meter even though the standing charge is higher?

If you have an EV, Yes.

If you dont have an ev, 30% of your useage need to be night rate for it to be better.

Ie if you run the dishwasher at night etc.

With an EV, if you charge over night you will have no problem reaching the 30%

Gael23

Gael23 wrote: »

Is it still better to have a night saver meter even though the standing charge is higher?

Standing charge is what, 50 Euro's a year extra ? of course it's better to have night saver.

Even using washing machines, dishwashers and dryers can be significant consumers of electricity, add immersions in the Summer to heat water etc, anyone on a well saving money if the washing machine and dishwasher are on, the pump consumes around 1 Kw give or take, all adds up, then we have a pump on the Septic tank. + the base load of the house. All adds up.

These days you can't even use the hot water in your tank for the dishwasher or washing machine, joke.

the_amazing_raisin

[Deleted User] wrote: »

These days you can't even use the hot water in your tank for the dishwasher or washing machine, joke.

Actually I was reading the specs on a dishwasher recently (might have been a bosch or miele) and they said it's fine to connect to the hot tap as long as the temp was below 90C. In fact they recommended it if you have a heat pump or solar heating

Washing machines still take cold only unfortunately. They recommend against connecting to the hot tap because the water might be too hot and shrink the clothes

It's probably something we'll see more of in future, although ironically it'll probably be the more expensive brands first

graememk

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Actually I was reading the specs on a dishwasher recently (might have been a bosch or miele) and they said it's fine to connect to the hot tap as long as the temp was below 90C. In fact they recommended it if you have a heat pump or solar heating

Have you seen the technology connections latest video on dishwashers and the all in one tablets... Interesting video on the workings of them.

Some dishwashers in the us assume hot water and then they recommend running the hot water tap to flush out the cold in the pipes.

Gael23

I think it’s better they run on cold because a they they heat the water as needed and you don’t need to heat a full tank.

Back in topic, is there much work involved in getting a new meter?

graememk

Gael23 wrote: »

I think it’s better they run on cold because a they they heat the water as needed and you don’t need to heat a full tank.

Back in topic, is there much work involved in getting a new meter?

No, Swap took max 15 mins from the Time ESBN Arrived to when they left.

Power will have to be off for that period though.

the_amazing_raisin

Gael23 wrote: »

I think it’s better they run on cold because a they they heat the water as needed and you don’t need to heat a full tank.

Back in topic, is there much work involved in getting a new meter?

Aw but I'm enjoying this tangent

Yeah the only reason it'd work out more economical to pipe in hot water is if you can make it cheaper another way, which is basically a heat pump or solar heating

Gael23

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Aw but I'm enjoying this tangent

Yeah the only reason it'd work out more economical to pipe in hot water is if you can make it cheaper another way, which is basically a heat pump or solar heating

Do you know anything about heat pumps? I’m not sold on the concept

the_amazing_raisin

Gael23 wrote: »

Do you know anything about heat pumps? I’m not sold on the concept

Well we've got one out the back, they definitely work, house is nice and toasty at the moment.

Did the math last year and space heating cost somewhere between 200 and 250. House is a 4 bed semi, A3 rated

For comparison, my mum's house is gas heated. It's older and not as well insulated, but is a 2 bed so it's a smaller space to heat. She spent €350 on heating last winter

They can be more efficient if you use them correctly, I've found the best approach is to leave the heating on for a long time and use thermostats to control the temperature.

Normally with gas heating we'd just burn the heating for an hour or two to get the house up to stifling heat and then let it cool down

If you're ever looking at one, look for a manufacturer who has been building air conditioning systems for a long time. There's a few new players in the market who don't have the same level of experience

Gael23

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Well we've got one out the back, they definitely work, house is nice and toasty at the moment.

Did the math last year and space heating cost somewhere between 200 and 250. House is a 4 bed semi, A3 rated

For comparison, my mum's house is gas heated. It's older and not as well insulated, but is a 2 bed so it's a smaller space to heat. She spent €350 on heating last winter

They can be more efficient if you use them correctly, I've found the best approach is to leave the heating on for a long time and use thermostats to control the temperature.

Normally with gas heating we'd just burn the heating for an hour or two to get the house up to stifling heat and then let it cool down

If you're ever looking at one, look for a manufacturer who has been building air conditioning systems for a long time. There's a few new players in the market who don't have the same level of experience

But what do you do on days like this where it’s freezing and there’s no heat to take in?

graememk

Gael23 wrote: »

But what do you do on days like this where it’s freezing and there’s no heat to take in?

Heat pumps can work at their normal level down to -18 to -22 c depending on model.

We rarely get that temperatures in Ireland!

Below that, I think a normal heating element can kick in. But generally heat pumps work best with a well insulated house and usually with underfloor heating.

The floor could be considered as a massive storage heater, Thats why its usually a case of bring it up to temperature and keep it there. - then you can use the benefit of night rate to do the majority of your heating too.

the_amazing_raisin

graememk wrote: »

Heat pumps can work at their normal level down to -18 to -22 c depending on model.

We rarely get that temperatures in Ireland!

Below that, I think a normal heating element can kick in. But generally heat pumps work best with a well insulated house and usually with underfloor heating.

The floor could be considered as a massive storage heater, Thats why its usually a case of bring it up to temperature and keep it there. - then you can use the benefit of night rate to do the majority of your heating too.

Yeah our one seems to be rated down to -20C. I think Panasonic do a range that go down to -30C or so

It has an electric heater in the heat pump which will boost the temperature if the heat pump isn't able to reach the set temperature

On cold days it does take a little longer to heat up, so generally I just have the heating on from 2pm until 11am. The thermostat will stop the heat coming on if the house is already warm so it doesn't waste energy. The heat pump just kicks on every so often to maintain temperature.

KCross

Gael23 wrote: »

But what do you do on days like this where it’s freezing and there’s no heat to take in?

As said already air based heat pumps still work (albeit at much reduced efficiency) but there are also heat pump systems that are not affected by air temp as they pull their heat from the ground (geothermal). Go 3ft or so down and the temp doesn’t change much all year round so air temp doesn’t matter to them.

Gael23

KCross wrote: »

As said already air based heat pumps still work (albeit at much reduced efficiency) but there are also heat pump systems that are not affected by air temp as they pull their heat from the ground (geothermal). Go 3ft or so down and the temp doesn’t change much all year round so air temp doesn’t matter to them.

Souls homes fitted with a heat pump have a back up system in the event more heat is needed in very cold epweather?

KCross

Gael23 wrote: »

Souls homes fitted with a heat pump have a back up system in the event more heat is needed in very cold epweather?

All heat pump systems have a heating element that it can use in the event that the heat pump itself isn’t working or to use as a booster if the heat pump cant generate enough heat on its own. Using that element is expensive though.

Geothermal systems shouldn’t need to call on it in our climate. Air based HPs would.

Gael23

KCross wrote: »

All heat pump systems have a heating element that it can use in the event that the heat pump itself isn’t working or to use as a booster if the heat pump cant generate enough heat on its own. Using that element is expensive though.

Geothermal systems shouldn’t need to call on it in our climate. Air based HPs would.

Air to water seems to be the most common here.

KCross

Gael23 wrote: »

Air to water seems to be the most common here.

Plenty ground source installs too though.

Air source is cheaper and simpler to install which is why it’s more popular. Cheaper isn’t better though!

the_amazing_raisin

Gael23 wrote: »

Air to water seems to be the most common here.

They're easier and cheaper to install generally. Ground source heat pumps require a lot of excavation

I think I've seen our backup heater on twice this year, for maybe an hour at a time. As I recall it's only 1-2kW so not too much of a consumer.

I'm expecting to use it more in January and February since it'll be colder, but over the course of the year it works out to be quite cost effective

As others have mentioned, you need a well insulated home to see the benefits. There are heat pumps out there designed for older homes but they're slightly less efficient

If I was choosing between switching to a heat pump and improving the bet rating to A3 or higher, I'd go with improving the ber rating, it's much easier to see the payback and you can always change to the heat pump later if the boiler goes kaput

celtic_oz

any better rates than this .. my deal running out next month

KCross

celtic_oz wrote: »

any better rates than this .. my deal running out next month

There are. Bonkers.ie is your friend.

Check Airtricity, Energia and BEenergy. They should all be cheaper than that.