Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

banie01

duploelabs wrote: »

No, you're misunderstanding his point. It's not Grifting because other people are at it, and because they're doing it in some manner, no matter how small, it means the original crime is ok.
_taps temple_

What is actually terrifying regarding the grift angle on this one is which of the Place the money is spun out from.
If it's the re-election PAC, that's a crime.
If it's the newer "Save America" PAC, the money is for Trump's personal disbursement really along with a % to the RNC.

The grift is strong, there really needs to be a huge root and branch overhaul of US political accountability and financial transparency IMO.

kowloon

Thargor wrote: »

Sounds like Trumps Space Force has only the best people like all his organizations:

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2020/12/17/space-force-member-was-busted-down-rank-bailing-pt-get-playstation-5.html

I've seen a video of two people beating lumps out of each other on a shop floor over a PS5, this isn't unique to Space Force.

Roanmore

If all these pardons are to be given out is there a deadline when it has to be done or can they be given out on 19th Jan?

aloyisious

Whatever about the damage Trump & Co have caused the U.S., I'm wondering how the U.S public [incl its service] will take the deliberate actions of both sides of Congress in running the U.S Govt into shutdown all by themselves without a veto from Trump. Will the public just roll over and play doggo or display a definite anger at the Pols carry-on?

Itssoeasy

Roanmore wrote: »

If all these pardons are to be given out is there a deadline when it has to be done or can they be given out on 19th Jan?

They can be given out until January 20th at 11:59am if trump wants to.

Leroy42

aloyisious wrote: »

Whatever about the damage Trump & Co have caused the U.S., I'm wondering how the U.S public [incl its service] will take the deliberate actions of both sides of Congress in running the U.S Govt into shutdown all by themselves without a veto from Trump. Will the public just roll over and play doggo or display a definite anger at the Pols carry-on?

There are currently 3500+ people dying everyday. National debt has exploded. And ElRussia has just been uncovered in a nationwide cyber attack that appears to show they have been spying directly on US organisations so since March.

POTUS has nothing to say on any of this, and the population seems not to care. Why would anything Congress does move the needle?

listermint

Leroy42 wrote: »

There are currently 3500+ people dying everyday. National debt has exploded. And ElRussia has just been uncovered in a nationwide cyber attack that appears to show they have been spying directly on US organisations so since March.

POTUS has nothing to say on any of this, and the population seems not to care. Why would anything Congress does move the needle?

Since Oct 2019 !

There's been an absolute leap in this activity since trump hobbled intelligence services.

There has to be a complete and directed root and branch investigation into trump and the GOP next year . This stuff is bigger than anything he's done since elected.

aloyisious

listermint wrote: »

Since Oct 2019 !

There's been an absolute leap in this activity since trump hobbled intelligence services.

There has to be a complete and directed root and branch investigation into trump and the GOP next year . This stuff is bigger than anything he's done since elected.

@Leroy: I'm thinking of the average unemployed U.S citizen, the penniless citizen and those other U.S citizens struck down employment-wise from the side effects Covid-19 has had on jobs and the economy. The deliberate diddering on that issue by the senate and house is shamable, putting thousands out of work, out of home and on the breadline. Both chambers of congress have obligations to the nation far above the "keep my seat safe" personal agendas the seat-warmers there have.....

EDIT... @Listermint: It appears that Russia is behind the latest hack-attack on the U.S with Trump on the record that he has more faith/trust in Russian intelligence agencies than in U.S intelligence agencies. It's not avoidable to ask him why he's been engaged in hobbling and nobbling U.S Govt agencies across the sphere since he began his run for president years ago before getting into office and get answers from him for it outside of the political arena..... Mike Pompeo is laying it all at Russia's door according to what he said on the Mark Levin show last night in the U.S. As SecState, he's the official interface between Trump, the U.S and Putin & mother Russia [unless Trump & Putin have a secure link outside U.S Govt provided means].

duploelabs

banie01 wrote: »

What is actually terrifying regarding the grift angle on this one is which of the Place the money is spun out from.
If it's the re-election PAC, that's a crime.
If it's the newer "Save America" PAC, the money is for Trump's personal disbursement really along with a % to the RNC.

The grift is strong, there really needs to be a huge root and branch overhaul of US political accountability and financial transparency IMO.

Parscale was the catalyst because trump didn't trust him.

"AMMC looks to have essentially taken over the place of former campaign manager Brad Parscale's group, Parscale Strategy, after aides repeatedly voiced concerns to the president that Parscale was not being forthright about how he spent the campaign's money, according to a person familiar with the arrangement. While Kushner was not a driving force behind AMMC, the source who spoke on a condition of anonymity explained, the joint effort was led by campaign lawyers to reassure a paranoid Trump that no one was taking secret cuts. Parscale, it was thought, should not hold dual roles as head of a company serving as a campaign clearinghouse and campaign manager. Parscale and Kushner both signed off the arrangement, the source confirmed."
https://www.salon.com/2020/12/18/how-the-trump-family-grift-grew-out-of-the-presidents-paranoia-about-brad-parscale/

Leroy42

aloyisious wrote: »

@Leroy: I'm thinking of the average unemployed U.S citizen, the penniless citizen and those other U.S citizens struck down employment-wise from the side effects Covid-19 has had on jobs and the economy. The deliberate diddering on that issue by the senate and house is shamable, putting thousands out of work, out of home and on the breadline. Both chambers of congress have obligations to the nation far above the "keep my seat safe" personal agendas the seat-warmers there have.....

It appears that Russia is behind the latest hack-attack on the U.S with Trump on the record that he has more faith/trust in Russian intelligence agencies than in U.S intelligence agencies. It's not avoidable to ask him why he's been engaged in hobbling and nobbling U.S Govt agencies across the sphere since he began his run for president years ago before getting into office and get answers from him for it outside of the political arena.

Yes I understand your point. I was making the comparison to such other things that have failed to have any impact as evidence that there really appears nothing that will drive action.

Such is the partisan split, any argument quickly descends into which team one is on, rather than the facts.

There appears to be two main groups of people in the US. Those that are wedded to a particular party such that actions don't matter only winning, and those that are apathetic to the whole thing. That they have no control or input into what goes on.

Brussels Sprout

So SpaceForce - any chance Joe Biden can quietly shelf this when he takes office?

Ideally if he could replace it with a Cyber Warfare branch of the military instead since that'll be a more clear and present danger in 2021.

amandstu

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

So SpaceForce - any chance Joe Biden can quietly shelf this when he takes office?

Ideally if he could replace it with a Cyber Warfare branch of the military instead since that'll be a more clear and present danger in 2021.

Keep it for long enough to launch Trump and his cabal into orbit from Cape Canaveral -or wherever it is they operate from.

Water John

Countdown for this thread. It will be redundant, one month from tomorrow.

Detritus70

amandstu wrote: »

Keep it for long enough to launch Trump and his cabal into orbit from Cape Canaveral -or wherever it is they operate from.

I doubt Spaceforce could even launch a potato a hundred feet into the air.

amandstu

Detritus70 wrote: »

I doubt Spaceforce could even launch a potato a hundred feet into the air.

They might retro-fit some of NASA's older models

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potato_cannon

Make America Grated Again


Or they could aim for the Korean peninsular

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-55348575

Detritus70

Here's a very interesting obituary of Trump's presidency.
It is a good summation of how The Donald has made America poorer, more isolated and more divided. He is a cult leader and I'd class his followers as very distinct from run if the mill republicans and more like cult followers.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/01/the-legacy-of-donald-trump/617255/

To assess the legacy of Donald Trump’s presidency, start by quantifying it. Since last February, more than a quarter of a million Americans have died from COVID-19—a fifth of the world’s deaths from the disease, the highest number of any country. In the three years before the pandemic, 2.3 million Americans lost their health insurance, accounting for up to 10,000 “excess deaths”; millions more lost coverage during the pandemic. The United States’ score on the human-rights organization Freedom House’s annual index dropped from 90 out of 100 under President Barack Obama to 86 under Trump, below that of Greece and Mauritius. Trump withdrew the U.S. from 13 international organizations, agreements, and treaties. The number of refugees admitted into the country annually fell from 85,000 to 12,000. About 400 miles of barrier were built along the southern border. The whereabouts of the parents of 666 children seized at the border by U.S. officials remain unknown.

Detritus70

Detritus70 wrote: »

Here's a very interesting obituary of Trump's presidency.
It is a good summation of how The Donald has made America poorer, more isolated and more divided. He is a cult leader and I'd class his followers as very distinct from run if the mill republicans and more like cult followers.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/01/the-legacy-of-donald-trump/617255/

Most of those things your average republican would agree with imo. For example being poor and not being able to afford health care etc is your fault in their minds.

Rjd2

DubInMeath wrote: »

Most of those things your average republican would agree with imo. For example being poor and not being able to afford health care etc is your fault in their minds.

"run of the mill" Republican would support the Regan economic model which Trump has triumphed while surrounding himself with hardcore economic libertarians

The foreign policy which Trump has not exactly been a dove would not have been any less violent if any of the other Trump rivals had won in 2016.

We have seen it last few months where the strongest objection to stimulus checks have came from the more libertarian leaning GOP members. They secretly loath Trump for how vulgar he is, but their economics and world view is just as cruel as Trumps and previous GOP generations.

Water John

'We have seen it last few months where the strongest objection to stimulus checks have came from the more libertarian leaning GOP members. They secretly loath Trump for how vulgar he is, but their economics and world view is just as cruel as Trumps and previous GOP generations.' Quote Rjd

Yes they are truly Trevelyan in nature.

Itssoeasy

So apparently the security hack that his own Secretary of State said was a Russian job is now possibly China according to trump. I mean I doubt it’s ever really been a doubt that Russia has some hold on Trump himself or the trump family as a whole but Jesus he’s bending over backwards so far to not blame Russia for anything that limbo dancers are wincing.

Igotadose

Itssoeasy wrote: »

So apparently the security hack that his own Secretary of State said was a Russian job is now possibly China according to trump. I mean I doubt it’s ever really been a doubt that Russia has some hold on Trump himself or the trump family as a whole but Jesus he’s bending over backwards so far to not blame Russia for anything that limbo dancers are wincing.

His first tweet about it is to defend Russia. 'Nuf said?

Why does anyone follow the #IMPOTUS anymore? He's just a rabid old man screaming at clouds.

pixelburp

So what odds are there Trump has been promised safe harbour in Russia once he's out in January? Cos his insistent defence of its clear actions against America are hitting real "the lady doth protest too much" territory. Correct me if I'm wrong but there's no extradition policy with the US, right? One flight later and all Trump's post presidential legal problems would be functionally dead in the water.

duploelabs

pixelburp wrote: »

So what odds are there Trump has been promised safe harbour in Russia once he's out in January? Cos his insistent defence of its clear actions against America are hitting real "the lady doth protest too much" territory. Correct me if I'm wrong but there's no extradition policy with the US, right? One flight later and all Trump's post presidential legal problems would be functionally dead in the water.

It's already been mooted by the Russian press. However it would mean its curtains to his '24 bid, and any of his children's political aspirations. And while there would be no long arm of the law extending to Russia, debt doesn't work that way.
It also brings forth the question as to why would Russia grant him amnesty? He's absolutely no use to them now nor does he seem to hold any cards on Putin

Gunmonkey

Igotadose wrote: »

His first tweet about it is to defend Russia. 'Nuf said?

Why does anyone follow the #IMPOTUS anymore? He's just a rabid old man screaming at clouds.

Because sadly theres a cohort in America (and further afield I fear) who, upon reading his tweets, will run out and start screaming at clouds, shaking their fists and start shooting their guns to "Protect freedom from them commie-clouds!"

pixelburp wrote: »

So what odds are there Trump has been promised safe harbour in Russia once he's out in January? Cos his insistent defence of its clear actions against America are hitting real "the lady doth protest too much" territory. Correct me if I'm wrong but there's no extradition policy with the US, right? One flight later and all Trump's post presidential legal problems would be functionally dead in the water.

If Putin was smart (and he is not a dumb man, watch some of his interviews, he is sharp as hell) he would be better poised to distance himself 100% from Trump, claiming absolutely not connection bar international events like the G20. Granting safe harbour would only draw the eyes of USA (and the world) to why he granted safe harbour, and theres way to many rumours of collusion and such already floating round. What is Trump worth to him on Jan 21st? The security briefs he will get as a former President? Useful, but not enough to pull down the ire having the great tangerine waddling about in your borders.

pixelburp

duploelabs wrote: »

It's already been mooted by the Russian press. However it would mean its curtains to his '24 bid, and any of his children's political aspirations. And while there would be no long arm of the law extending to Russia, debt doesn't work that way.
It also brings forth the question as to why would Russia grant him amnesty? He's absolutely no use to them now nor does he seem to hold any cards on Putin

From a propaganda point of view, it's probably not a bad win for Russia: being the home of a (disgraced) president fleeing its system. And Trump corporation might be a useful tool for russian interests, being as it does contain a bevvy of real estate. Appreciate I'm really dovetailing into conspiracy at this point mind you. Primarily though, I can't see Trump sticking around for all those lawsuits to finish. And I'm not convinced 2024 is likely for him; there's a real sense of someone intent on taking the ball home, where he can be forever the winner in his own eyes.

blackcard

pixelburp wrote: »

So what odds are there Trump has been promised safe harbour in Russia once he's out in January? Cos his insistent defence of its clear actions against America are hitting real "the lady doth protest too much" territory. Correct me if I'm wrong but there's no extradition policy with the US, right? One flight later and all Trump's post presidential legal problems would be functionally dead in the water.

But, but, but, no one has been tougher on Russia than Trump!!!

aloyisious

pixelburp wrote: »

So what odds are there Trump has been promised safe harbour in Russia once he's out in January? Cos his insistent defence of its clear actions against America are hitting real "the lady doth protest too much" territory. Correct me if I'm wrong but there's no extradition policy with the US, right? One flight later and all Trump's post presidential legal problems would be functionally dead in the water.

On the NO extradition thing, I was wondering about Israel and Saudi Arabia. He's a figure in good standing in Israel over the embassy move, it doesn't do extradition of friends and his son-in-law [plus family] has to have clout there. He's also a good friend of the Ibn-Saud family. The golf courses in Saudi Arabia are reputed to be good.

FrostyJack

pixelburp wrote: »

From a propaganda point of view, it's probably not a bad win for Russia: being the home of a (disgraced) president fleeing its system. And Trump corporation might be a useful tool for russian interests, being as it does contain a bevvy of real estate. Appreciate I'm really dovetailing into conspiracy at this point mind you. Primarily though, I can't see Trump sticking around for all those lawsuits to finish. And I'm not convinced 2024 is likely for him; there's a real sense of someone intent on taking the ball home, where he can be forever the winner in his own eyes.

I cannot see Russia doing it, the best bang for their buck would be to believe Trump is still a saint to his followers and for them to believe they had the election stolen and keep the divide in the country stewing. He can be very useful to Putin hurling from the ditches. I don't think any Russian ties will be released unless someone else finds them.

pixelburp

pixelburp wrote: »

So what odds are there Trump has been promised safe harbour in Russia once he's out in January? Cos his insistent defence of its clear actions against America are hitting real "the lady doth protest too much" territory. Correct me if I'm wrong but there's no extradition policy with the US, right? One flight later and all Trump's post presidential legal problems would be functionally dead in the water.

Low to nearly nil imo as it wouldn't benefit Putin to do so as he's more of a benefit being left in the U.S. and not in Russia.

Can't see the tradition of intelligence briefings to ex presidents being extended to trump given the concerns raised by former security personnel, but on the other hand he certainly has the potential to be a way to leak misinformation for them.

aloyisious

DubInMeath wrote: »

Low to nearly nil imo as it wouldn't benefit Putin to do so as he's more of a benefit being left in the U.S. and not in Russia.

Can't see the tradition of intelligence briefings to ex presidents being extended to trump given the concerns raised by former security personnel, but on the other hand he certainly has the potential to be a way to leak misinformation for them.

Agree with this as he's a loose cannon at the best of times. I can't see Putin wanting him around in his backyard with that habit, it'd be disastrous for Putin with the Russian opposition using Trump as a cudgel against him, and Trump's enemies in and out of politics would have a field day.