Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

Overheal

robinph wrote: »

Having an election but then waiting two months before you hand over power to the person who won is the height of stupidity. Yes you need to have time for a transition between the sides, but the outgoing side should loose their power to do anything the second the vote results are declared.

We normally pride ourselves on the peaceful transition of power. That's not what happened in MN though and it's a crying shame. Fortunately, the worst of what we'd see is Executive Orders (which can be as easily undone as Trump did of many of Obama's) and judicial confirmations. However, I am hopeful that the public could likely successfully lobby the 4 Republican Senators needed to block any confirmation of a Justice. Even though these Senators didn't vote to proceed with the Impeachment trial, there are enough moderates that I don't think McConnell could hold enough together for a lame duck vote like that, but I guess it all depends on leverage but I don't think the RNC will have nearly the leverage they had over these people after the election, their biggest card to play was campaigning against these Senators and having them primaried if they bucked, eg. Susan Collins. Without lame duck control of the House there is no possibility of law or act passing that doesn't facilitate the transition.

Rjd2

StringerBell wrote: »

RBGs cancer has returned I read.

Very sorry to hear that for more than just the obvious reasons.

Obviously most would agree, but she should have stepped down in the Obama years.

And obviously another reminder why term limits are needed with the SC, quite possible we could have Thomas working until he passes in his latter years if Biden wins in November.

StringerBell

Oh yeah terms limits are a no brainer for me anyway, not just on the SC but on any court

Itssoeasy

Wow I listened for the first time to Mary trump on her appearance with Rachel Maddow from Thursday and she's the Lisa Simpson of the trump family. She speaks in full sentences and not word salads and she isn't yelling. I don't think her uncle Donald trump has said anything about her yet since the book came out which is telling. Her two first cousins Donald jr and Eric haven't been saying rubbish and I've no idea about ivanka. There's hope for this family yet. She's up there with Tiffany trump who seems to be out of the orbit of ignorance and grifting.

StringerBell

Could be, or could just be a case of the penny finally, finally dropping that attacking these books and authors publicly just increases the book sales. Now apparently the book sold a million copies on day 1 so that ship has sailed anyway but still...

The mooch had an interview in the guardian that I found interesting. Nothing much new in it but a grand way to pass two minutes

duploelabs

Speaking of book sales, Mary Trump interview by ABC

Just reveals what a scumbag Fred Trump was

Dillonb3

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Wow I listened for the first time to Mary trump on her appearance with Rachel Maddow from Thursday and she's the Lisa Simpson of the trump family. She speaks in full sentences and not word salads and she isn't yelling. I don't think her uncle Donald trump has said anything about her yet since the book came out which is telling. Her two first cousins Donald jr and Eric haven't been saying rubbish and I've no idea about ivanka. There's hope for this family yet. She's up there with Tiffany trump who seems to be out of the orbit of ignorance and grifting.

He was tweeting some rubbish last night about her and Bolton broke the law by writing books about him and should be in jail

Rjd2

Dillonb3 wrote: »

He was tweeting some rubbish last night about her and Bolton broke the law by writing books about him and should be in jail

Actually Yesterday was thinking the silence from Trump was clever as no need to draw attention to it, but that rambling tweet has probably done wonders for its sale next week. 3D Chess.

Nody

What do you call a country where anonymized cars driven by federal agents stop and pull random people off the street into the car without identifying themselves, not wearing uniform or giving a legal citizen any rights they are afforded under the constitution? USA; land of the free... Where are those gun totting freedom fighters again who wants to stop the state from over reaching again?

In another case, Mark Pettibone, 29, said a minivan rolled up to him around 2 a.m. Wednesday and four or five people got out "looking like they were deployed to a Middle Eastern war."

Mr Pettibone told The Associated Press he got to his knees as the group approached. They dragged him into the van without identifying themselves or responding to his questions and pulled his beanie over his eyes so he couldn't see, he said.

"I figured I was just going to disappear for an indefinite amount of time," Mr Pettibone said.

Mr Pettibone said he was put into a cell and officers dumped the contents of his backpack, with one remarking: "Oh, this is a bunch of nothing."

After he asked for a lawyer, Mr Pettibone was allowed to leave.

...

"Usually when we see people in unmarked cars forcibly grab someone off the street we call it kidnapping," said Jann Carson, interim executive director of the ACLU of Oregon. "The actions of the militarised federal officers are flat-out unconstitutional and will not go unanswered."

TomOnBoard

StringerBell wrote: »

Could be, or could just be a case of the penny finally, finally dropping that attacking these books and authors publicly just increases the book sales. Now apparently the book sold a million copies on day 1 so that ship has sailed anyway but still...

The mooch had an interview in the guardian that I found interesting. Nothing much new in it but a grand way to pass two minutes

I think the Mooch has signed up to The Lincoln Project. It's interesting to see how fellas like himself and Donny Deutch, both of whom would have been long-time 'friends' of The Donald, have turned so much on him.

TomOnBoard

duploelabs wrote: »

Speaking of book sales, Mary Trump interview by ABC

Just reveals what a scumbag Fred Trump was

The mother (Gam/Mary) was a weird one as well. It makes you wonder how Donald could have ended up any different, given his upbringing...

Water John

People can get damaged by a dysfunctional home environment, but there are also choices, once you're an adult. Lot of survivors out there, who are good people. Often particularly good with the next generation as they know what was missing in their own life.

TomOnBoard

Nody wrote: »

What do you call a country where anonymized cars driven by federal agents stop and pull random people off the street into the car without identifying themselves, not wearing uniform or giving a legal citizen any rights they are afforded under the constitution? USA; land of the free... Where are those gun totting freedom fighters again who wants to stop the state from over reaching again?

Since World War II, such activities were characteristic of countries that operated secret police forces, gulags/concentration camps/prisons to focus on political enemies of their totalitarian leaders, like East Germany (under Ulbricht and Honeker), USSR (under Stalin), Cambodia (under Pol Pot), China (under Mao), Chile (under Pinochet) and a range of other places where totalitarian regimes took over. In most such cases, the atrocities for which they became infamous all started off with small actions and steps that, because they got away with it, led to steadily more outrageous steps until the full awful regime ruled everyone.

First it was DC, with Bureau of Prisons ppl acting as AG Barr's unmarked and heavily armed 'police', and they got away with it. Like, WTF has protesting in DC got to do with a BOP riot squad? . Now it's Portland, where Barr's gang now comprise (again unidentified) Customs and Border Protection 'police', acting against the express wishes of local authorities, riding around on taxpayers' dollars, and operating as snatch squads. WTF has anything in Portland OR got to do with the CBP?

Where next? Chicago as alluded to by McEnany during the week?

aloyisious

I assume Trump will be at the GOP convention in Houston after federal district court judge Lynn Hughes ruled verbally that the Houston City council can't ban the GOP from having its convention in-person, with a written version of the ruling to follow. The judge overturned a Texas Supreme Court decision that found nothing wrong lawfully with Houston Mayor Turner order to the owners of the George R Brown C/Centre to cancel the in-person contract it had with the GOP. Judge Hughes said the GOP can hold its convention either this or next weekend. Mayor Turner said the ruling would be appealed.

https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2020-07-17/judge-houston-cant-ban-convention-gop-deciding-next-move

eire4

robinph wrote: »

Having an election but then waiting two months before you hand over power to the person who won is the height of stupidity. Yes you need to have time for a transition between the sides, but the outgoing side should loose their power to do anything the second the vote results are declared.

Well this aspect of the US system is going to come back to haunt them this tie if the Democrats win because IMHO then the president will go on a 2 month scorched earth bender. Who knows exact what he might do but the idea he would just accept defeat and walk away quietly that is not happening IMHO.

aloyisious

eire4 wrote: »

Well this aspect of the US system is going to come back to haunt them this tie if the Democrats win because IMHO then the president will go on a 2 month scorched earth bender. Who knows exact what he might do but the idea he would just accept defeat and walk away quietly that is not happening IMHO.

Will the GOP allow Trump to drag it into a charnel house is the question for the Nov-Jan period and prevent it from resurrecting itself for 2028 or will it arrange a safe transfer for its own good? McConnell may have tied himself to Trump but the question is will his heirs choose to let Trump wreck their future as well or choose to ignore him as a footnote in history? The odds are that the other nominees [Ted Cruz, Chris Christie and Mike Huckabee] who ran against him for the office in 2016 will be waiting to bury him & Mitch deep.

StringerBell

How do you propose the GOP stop him even if they were so inclined?

aloyisious

StringerBell wrote: »

How do you propose the GOP stop him even if they were so inclined?

Get some of the present crew, and some of the up-and-comers to refuse to go stumping for him, for a start. Chris Christie was reported yesterday to have sounded-off in opposition to Trump's stance on how to handle Covid-19. I was having a look at the MSN headlines a minute ago and they included a mention of how the Trump Admin is opposing a new funding bill measure from the GOP for the CDC for Covid-19 testing. Given how much sh1t they are in over their link to the top non-expert handling of the virus-fight , I can't really see the GOP giving in to Steve and him when it comes to this particular funding issue. This stupid Trump Admin action will be grist for the mill to those in the GOP who dislike Trump and what he's done to the party image/future. I can see it's probably proper exchequer management Steve is trying to do, but the image in the public mind is important right now. The Dems and the Lincoln Project people will probably say, "keep it coming, Don".

Being as how I'm triple-checking news reports after being caught out by a fake anti-Trump photo image of him, his daughter Ivanka & an O/P. I looked for confirmation of the report and see that Steve Mnuchin is the Admin team member reportedly behind the push against the CDC funding content of the GOP bill.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-18/white-house-against-testing-funds-in-stimulus-bill-wash-post

https://precoinnews.com/politics/trump-team-balks-at-virus-test-funds-in-new-bill/

https://www.bing.com/news/search?q=has+the+trump+administration+opposed+extra+funding+in+new+GOP+bill&qpvt=has+the+trump+administration+opposed+extra+funding+in+new+GOP+bill&FORM=EWRE

StringerBell

aloyisious wrote: »

Get some of the present crew, and some of the up-and-comers to refuse to go stumping for him, for a start.

He will have lost the election, he will have nothing left to lose. Anybody that turns against him will become the "enemy" and he will just rail against them while executive ordering whatever he can manage in the two months.

He doesn't need them to stump for him anymore, he won't need to even pretend to attempt to spin anymore.

I just think the time for the GOP to show any kind of control over Trump is long gone, it's the party of Trump now, it's a cult. They have no credibility anyway at this point to pretend something is too far for them after what they have permitted and rationalised previously.

Just hope he loses the election and deal with whatever he leaves behind then.

Wanderer78

StringerBell wrote:

Just hope he loses the election and deal with whatever he leaves behind then.

Ah I think he's done, can't see him being reelected, it ll be interesting to see if he stays the course

fr336

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Ah I think he's done, can't see him being reelected, it ll be interesting to see if he stays the course

So hope that's true, but we are still a while from November.

Wanderer78

fr336 wrote:

So hope that's true, but we are still a while from November.

Ah I really do think he's toast, but he has defied the odds to date

fr336

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Ah I really do think he's toast, but he has defied the odds to date

I honestly thought 2016 was a fluke at first, he couldn't even win the popular vote after all, but I guess he wouldn't be the first there. I just can't see "moderate" Americans voting for him again. Yeah the diehards, but they have always been there waiting for someone like Trump.

Wanderer78

fr336 wrote:

I honestly thought 2016 was a fluke at first, he couldn't even win the popular vote after all, but I guess he wouldn't be the first there. I just can't see "moderate" Americans voting for him again. Yeah the diehards, but they have always been there waiting for someone like Trump.

I guess in a way it was a fluke, it's an unusual system, but it really does make sense why trump is where he is, millions of Americans haven't been politically represented for a very long time now, plutocracy can be astonishingly dangerous at times

Leroy42

Even if Trump loses, the GOP are not going to change. They will just look for someone that is more capable than Trump turned out to be.

It is clear that a large portion of the US voters like this hard-right, anti-socialism mantra. It was said after Obama won that the GOP needed to shift away from the right, when in fact they doubled down and ended it winning everything.

The right will vote en-masse for the GOP, while the left are more split. Trump has conclusively shown that certain sections will vote for 'their side' no matter what. Lies, cheating, incompetence. Doesn't matter as long as its not the liberals.

If the Russia bounty story, which on the face of it goes against almost every value these people claim to hold, doesn't even register with these voters then there really is very little that will and as such the GOP trying to reposition itself will unlikely gain more than it loses.

FrostyJack

TomOnBoard wrote: »

The mother (Gam/Mary) was a weird one as well. It makes you wonder how Donald could have ended up any different, given his upbringing...

Just finished the book yesterday, interesting read but nothing shocking in it. Most of it is about how Fred enabled Donald and hindered her father Freddy who was the eldest. Awful family all round. The most interesting part is how the NY Times worked out the company's financials thanks to documents she provided them. They sold it for a song and if they held onto it , it would have been worth around 500 million a year. They did so much tax evasion over the lifetime of Fred, none of the siblings should see the light of day again. I am sure the Trump fans will just label her as disgruntled because of the inheritance fiasco but everything she said has already come out from other sources. She states the other 3 siblings could have come out and let the World know how incompetent and unsuitable he is for the role, especially Mary the federal judge, but she even voted for him out of family loyalty.

Wanderer78

Leroy42 wrote: »

Even if Trump loses, the GOP are not going to change. They will just look for someone that is more capable than Trump turned out to be.

It is clear that a large portion of the US voters like this hard-right, anti-socialism mantra. It was said after Obama won that the GOP needed to shift away from the right, when in fact they doubled down and ended it winning everything.

The right will vote en-masse for the GOP, while the left are more split. Trump has conclusively shown that certain sections will vote for 'their side' no matter what. Lies, cheating, incompetence. Doesn't matter as long as its not the liberals.

If the Russia bounty story, which on the face of it goes against almost every value these people claim to hold, doesn't even register with these voters then there really is very little that will and as such the GOP trying to reposition itself will unlikely gain more than it loses.

is there really a significant left in american politics?

FrostyJack

Leroy42 wrote: »

The right will vote en-masse for the GOP, while the left are more split. Trump has conclusively shown that certain sections will vote for 'their side' no matter what. Lies, cheating, incompetence. Doesn't matter as long as its not the liberals.

If the Russia bounty story, which on the face of it goes against almost every value these people claim to hold, doesn't even register with these voters then there really is very little that will and as such the GOP trying to reposition itself will unlikely gain more than it loses.

The power of nightmares is strong on the right, it is literally all their current ideology is based on, from all the moderate leaning right wing supporters I have come across the last few months, all I see is defund the police, riots in the streets, communism taking over, Biden is senile/sex offender. Total tumble weeds about anything negative on Trump like bounties or withholding funds for testing as they probably believe it is a hoax like the impeachment. If Biden/Obama/Clinton/AOC did any of that stuff it would definitely be true though in their eyes. Complete brainwashing. The worst possible thing for the democrats in terms of giving the right an angle was the protests. Though in saying that they would probably just come up with some other narrative like Biden was in the same room as Stalin when he was a baby or something.

Leroy42

Wanderer78 wrote: »

is there really a significant left in american politics?

No, I agree, I was using the term as it is used in US politics rather than as it is more widely understood.

Leroy42

FrostyJack wrote: »

The power of nightmares is strong on the right, it is literally all their current ideology is based on, from all the moderate leaning right wing supporters I have come across the last few months, all I see is defund the police, riots in the streets, communism taking over, Biden is senile/sex offender. Total tumble weeds about anything negative on Trump like bounties or withholding funds for testing as they probably believe it is a hoax like the impeachment. If Biden/Obama/Clinton/AOC did any of that stuff it would definitely be true though in their eyes. Complete brainwashing. The worst possible thing for the democrats in terms of giving the right an angle was the protests. Though in saying that they would probably just come up with some other narrative like Biden was in the same room as Stalin when he was a baby or something.

Trump and his supporters have no actual consistent lines, position that they hold. They are willing to be for or against anything once they believe it gives them an advantage. So if it wasn't the protests, Trump would have been saying that Biden did nothing about the deaths of black people.

There is literally nothing the 'left' can do that will be seen in anyway as being correct or helpful. It it is not simply spending more money on the military, tax cuts, war on drugs, more money on police it is seen as socialist. It doesn't matter than none of the above, and many other ideas, have proved to be a terrible waste of time and money and that any sane person would look at at least examining trying something different.