Can we have some fcuking control on the airports from high risk countries please?

lawrencesummers

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Christ, the level of empathy in this thread reaches new depths every day! :rolleyes:

Lets just hope you're not put into that situation eh?

Nothing to do with empathy.

What choice would you make?

httpete

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The New Zealand model certainly doesn't allow people to travel whenever they need: only their citizens or permanent residents can travel, and it can take months to get a MQF booking.

For example, say, your relative lives there, gets terminally ill and cannot travel - there is no way for you to travel to them if you're not a citizen/PR.

What is more important, visiting someone who is dying or actually preventing more people from dying? NZ have had not had a single covid death since September, we have had hundreds in January alone. So your argument is null and void.

Tenzor07

I'm setting up an online payment system, keyword will be "New Zealand"

€1 for each time someone mentions it, I'm saving for a new Private Jet to get me outta this country....

IMO, the restrictions now are about right.

ZC, and then releasing restrictions domestically as we see in NZ, is actually an impossibility. For it to work, it has to be absolutely watertight - not a single person in or out without 14 day enforced quarantine. In NZ and Australia that is possible as all imports are contactless - the plane lands and the cargo is taken straight into the national logistics network, with no human interaction. Even with that, in NZ and Australia the odd case gets through, and there has to be a short lockdown while tracing is carried out

So, how does this relate to Ireland and the UK? If in NZ, even with absolute 100% quarantine, the odd case still gets through, how would we manage? We have over 10,000 trucks a week coming in to Ireland (over 100,000 into the UK), along with other essential cross border traffic, and haulers will be only subject to a test (and a rapid one at that). Some are are Irish / British drivers who will be gong home to their families - many are European and have been all over. So even if all incoming individual travellers are quarantined at the airports and ports, many cases will still get through the rapid testing net for the hauliers. If one case can get through in NZ, how many more would get through here? And if our society is free of restrictions, those cases will spread, and spread fast. We will be in and out of lockdown over and over and over again, with no warning, while not one imported case is contact traced (like in NZ) but maybe 10 or 20 cases that will have already spread through families and into the community. And that would happen regularly.

We cant have contactless imports, like some have suggested. We dont have enough trucks or drivers in this country to pick up unmanned containers from the port, that were dropped off at the other side. Ferries and freight would grind to a halt and our supermarket shelves would be empty in no time (especially as the same would have to happen at the UK ports)

So if we cant do ZC and release restrictions, then why would we put in place a mandatory quarantine for all cross border travel, essential or not. It would be of huge cost to no benefit. The targeted approach, and the discouragement of travel through PCR tests and fines for moving around is the best that we can do.

Lockdowns would not be over if a very leaky ZC strategy was attempted.....they would keep coming over and over again as cases leak through

It is not simple as Ryan, McConkey etc would have you know, and that is why NPHET have not recommended it and governments have not recommended it. I have no doubt that if Leo or Michael was the NZ premier, they would have done the same thing as Lucinda - it is just an absolutely different situation

ZC could of course be done on a European basis, as the land borders from outside can be closed without as much impact - less essential travel from, say Russia, Turkey, and the Balkans, and everything else is by plane. The NZ model could be imposed - and internal borders opened and restrictions released when ZC reached, and that would be a good lesson for future pandemics. The political co-ordination would be huge however

lawrencesummers

Tenzor07 wrote: »

I'm setting up an online payment system, keyword will be "New Zealand"

€1 for each time someone mentions it, I'm saving for a new Private Jet to get me outta this country....

Online payments don’t work on keywords.

That’s search engines your mistaking them for.

New Zealand.

Tenzor07

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Online payments don’t work on keywords.

That’s search engines your mistaking them for.

New Zealand.

Right on man..:rolleyes:

Away With The Fairies

So I read a few days ago about Leo talking about mandatory quarantine. Mandatory quarantine for those that don't have a negative test when boarding their flight but those that do can quarantine at home when they get here?

So those that have a negative test could still get infected and we're still allowing them out to quarantine at home... Which we know at this stage not everybody will do that.

Where is the sense in that whole approach? You'll have people thinking that because they didn't have to do hotel quarantine and they have a negative test, they're free to do whatever they want.

Mandatory quarantine should be for all passengers.

ginoginelli

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

So I read a few days ago about Leo talking about mandatory quarantine. Mandatory quarantine for those that don't have a negative test when boarding their flight but those that do can quarantine at home when they get here?

So those that have a negative test could still get infected and we're still allowing them out to quarantine at home... Which we know at this stage not everybody will do that.

Where is the sense in that whole approach? You'll have people thinking that because they didn't have to do hotel quarantine and they have a negative test, they're free to do whatever they want.

Mandatory quarantine should be for all passengers.

Its completely nonsensical.

and how to the possibly infected people get to their homes from the airport?

It's more smoke and mirrors from this shambles of government.

My only hope is that some groundwork will have been done so that if we decide to implement it properly in 2 months or so the mechanisms will already be in place.

Malcomex

Uk has no chance of mass quarantining

18 million coming in on flights first 3 months of last year

Best chance is to block them from travelling in the first place

Tenzor07

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Mandatory quarantine should be for all passengers.

Mandatory Quarantine = Travel Ban/drawbridge pulled up.
- No one will come here.

Border will need to be closed with N.I unless UK authorities will quarantine ROI passengers.

Will be in place for 1 year as it will be almost impossible to retract the attached legislation in less than 1 year.

Tenzor07

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Mandatory Quarantine = Travel Ban/drawbridge pulled up.
- No one will come here.

Border will need to be closed with N.I unless UK authorities will quarantine ROI passengers.

Will be in place for 1 year as it will be almost impossible to retract the attached legislation in less than 1 year.

And cases still get through anyway, as essential travellers will only need a PCR test, and hauliers will only get a rapid test. And once it has leaked through the border it will spread faster as there wont be any restrictions, and we will still be back in lockdown, but having paid the additional ZC cost

No ZC advocate has come up with a solution to that, except some half baked suggestion that containers should be dropped onto a ferry and then picked up at this side. Ignoring that we don't have enough trucks or drivers and it would be so slow that freight movement would be paralysed and it would not be worth the effort for freight forwarders to continue to ship to Ireland. Our shelves would be empty in no time.

faceman

lawrencesummers wrote: »

A small price to pay for the good of the entire society.

If the choice comes down to it then I would have the children of this country getting educated over somebody seeing a terminally sick relative.

But the terminally sick person is a rarity and an exception that can be explored for special treatment. We are talking about stopping the 40% of Irish people who have said they will take a foreign holiday this year.

That shows quite a high level of selfishness and uncaring toward your fellow citizens.

You know, just like those selfish holidaymakers returning from Lanzarote.

faceman

Malcomex wrote: »

There's a new dimension to sealing the borders

The threat of unknown variants

Having lived in sub-saharan Africa for a number of years I can tell you that if you only knew of half the diseases and illness out there that dont reach Irish shores, you would close all the airports and ports in the country and insist we become a self sufficient island of farmers. I've seen things you'd never want to see.

lawrencesummers

faceman wrote: »

That shows quite a high level of selfishness and uncaring toward your fellow citizens.

You know, just like those selfish holidaymakers returning from Lanzarote.

No it doesn’t.

Siding with the greater good is the opposite of selfish.

lawrencesummers

faceman wrote: »

Having lived in sub-saharan Africa for a number of years I can tell you that if you only knew of half the diseases and illness out there that dont reach Irish shores, you would close all the airports and ports in the country and insist we become a self sufficient island of farmers. I've seen things you'd never want to see.

Why would you bother close all the airports and ports for diseases that don’t reach Irish shores?

Potatoeman

acequion wrote: »

Does anyone know if quarantine can still be cut short with a negative test after 5 days? I read one account where it appears so but listening to Helen McEntee on the news it's not so clear. Can anyone clarify?

On the citizens information site it says you still have to quarantine for the full two weeks with the passed test from high risk countries. Very confusing, different information being spread.

minikin

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Why would you bother close all the airports and ports for diseases that don’t reach Irish shores?

Why would I use a johnny, sure she hasn’t got pregnant yet!?!

Potatoeman

Potatoeman wrote: »

On the citizens information site it says you still have to quarantine for the full two weeks with the passed test from high risk countries. Very confusing, different information being spread.

Same on HSE:
https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/recently-arrived-into-ireland.html
Two weeks with a pass test with priority for testing.

facts and only facts

Loads of huff and Puff ....... about Airports and Ferry allowing in visitors etc and how to deal with it. First it is undeniable that it was this that got the virus into Ireland.
To ask for a negative test and then away you go to isolate on trust is not the answer. No consequences and to ask of the indigenous population to keep being restricted, while allowing any influx from god knows where is just nuts.
Suggestion.
Anybody arriving into Ireland from anywhere/coming home deposits €2,500 and is put into dedicated Isolation Hotels for 14 days that the traveler has to pay for. Then if they get ill their medical expenses are also paid for out of the deposit. If they are in contradiction of any laws regarding lock down they forfeit the deposit. That way most people should have no problem with people crossing the border. If potential travel heads think that these conditions are harsh maybe they should forget about traveling and being none accountable!

lawrencesummers

minikin wrote: »

Why would I use a johnny, sure she hasn’t got pregnant yet!?!

No point using a Johnny when your only looking at her online

faceman

facts and only facts wrote: »

Loads of huff and Puff ....... about Airports and Ferry allowing in visitors etc and how to deal with it. First it is undeniable that it was this that got the virus into Ireland.
To ask for a negative test and then away you go to isolate on trust is not the answer. No consequences and to ask of the indigenous population to keep being restricted, while allowing any influx from god knows where is just nuts.
Suggestion.
Anybody arriving into Ireland from anywhere/coming home deposits €2,500 and is put into dedicated Isolation Hotels for 14 days that the traveler has to pay for. Then if they get ill their medical expenses are also paid for out of the deposit. If they are in contradiction of any laws regarding lock down they forfeit the deposit. That way most people should have no problem with people crossing the border. If potential travel heads think that these conditions are harsh maybe they should forget about traveling and being none accountable!

lol

faceman

A thought on the 14 day isolation at høme. Why not allocate tv license inspectors to the task of knocking on doors rather than the Gardai.

facts and only facts

No problem kills two birds with the one stone.

Tenzor07

facts and only facts wrote: »

Anybody arriving into Ireland from anywhere/coming home deposits €2,500 and is put into dedicated Isolation Hotels for 14 days that the traveler has to pay for.!

Sorry, but i'd like a decent hotel with a view, a Jacuzzi and a 65" OLED Tv, can you make that €4,000 deposit please?

acequion

Potatoeman wrote: »

On the citizens information site it says you still have to quarantine for the full two weeks with the passed test from high risk countries. Very confusing, different information being spread.

I think that's only for those coming from SA and Brazil and those arriving without a PCR. I'm nearly sure they are continuing the EU traffic light system for everybody else. What has changed is the implementation of a quarantine facility and the upgrading from advisory to mandatory for all quarantine. At least that is my interpretation and I agree it's quite confusing.

Another thing I'm trying to find out is if they will /can continue to fine people €500 after level 5 ends. Anyone any clarity on that?

And also how can they fine a person €500 for flying from Dublin to London but only €100 for driving from Dingle to Donegal?

fly_agaric

faceman wrote: »

A thought on the 14 day isolation at høme. Why not allocate tv license inspectors to the task of knocking on doors rather than the Gardai.

Maybe dog wardens or clampers or Bord Gais meter readers could take it up as a sort of 2nd job like?

I suppose if you didn't laugh you'd cry.
Oy vey :pac:

caveat emptor

faceman wrote: »

A thought on the 14 day isolation at høme. Why not allocate tv license inspectors to the task of knocking on doors rather than the Gardai.

Because they have no teeth.

faceman

faceman wrote: »

A thought on the 14 day isolation at høme. Why not allocate tv license inspectors to the task of knocking on doors rather than the Gardai.

Any idea how they go about executing the check? Quite easy to knock on the door of a house. But what if an apartment where you have to get into the site first, and then there's a buzzer that may or may not work, and people aren't included to answer or to buzz in a randomer anyway. I know when I lived in apartment I never answered it as it was normally kids.

You surely cant be prosecuted if your buzzer doesnt work and your phone was on silent or you were sleeping. I guess they are after, in the most part, the people who are not even staying where they say they are. Hard to see how they can 'catch' people who are staying in their own home but have gone for a run or popped out to the shop.

Like all these things, its easier said than done

saabsaab

Deleted User wrote: »

Any idea how they go about executing the check? Quite easy to knock on the door of a house. But what if an apartment where you have to get into the site first, and then there's a buzzer that may or may not work, and people aren't included to answer or to buzz in a randomer anyway. I know when I lived in apartment I never answered it as it was normally kids.

You surely cant be prosecuted if your buzzer doesnt work and your phone was on silent or you were sleeping. I guess they are after, in the most part, the people who are not even staying where they say they are. Hard to see how they can 'catch' people who are staying in their own home but have gone for a run or popped out to the shop.

Like all these things, its easier said than done

Drop in a note saying to contact a number in the next 24 hrs!

theguzman

faceman wrote: »

Having lived in sub-saharan Africa for a number of years I can tell you that if you only knew of half the diseases and illness out there that dont reach Irish shores, you would close all the airports and ports in the country and insist we become a self sufficient island of farmers. I've seen things you'd never want to see.

Exactly you would swear the world was ending ever since this disease emerged, we are so lucky it is such a mild and with such a low death rate comparably. If Covid and Ebola were to meet in a host body and mutate together the infectiousness of Covid and the deadliness of Ebola there it would be time to stock up on ammo, fuel and as many packets of vegetable seeds as possible. The Spanish flu puts this in the shade. More people have died from far lesser things.

History will judge humanity very badly on the reaction to Covid and far more people will die from starvation, suicide, other treatable illnesses due to there being no health care system available. The economic destruction from Covid is far worse than World War II and will take longer to recover.