Parking and traffic in Phoenix Park

beauf

Former Former wrote: »

Yes. Let's bring our kids on not one but two buses. While a global virus pandemic rages. Great fun.

They want everyone to use public transport.

beauf

Former Former wrote: »

Yes. Let's bring our kids on not one but two buses. While a global virus pandemic rages. Great fun.

They want everyone to use public transport.

Former Former

thenightman wrote: »

Well, if you were really that worried about a global pandemic you surely wouldn't be visiting the zoo in the first place like.

It's a park, not a car park or a rat run. There's plenty of public transport options to get there (train to Heuston/Luas to Heuston, the most frequent bus route in the city (46a) serves park directly and lots of other routes serve the Parkgate St entrance (25, 26, 66/b,67,69) as well as Dublin Bikes at Heuston and the commercial bike rental scheme in front of the CCJ. If disabled or infirm you'll have a blue badge, and if not & you are just too lazy and want to drive there directly then tough luck. World is changing and cars are finally being recognised as the supreme nuisance they are.

I'm not worried about the zoo, I'm annoyed that 1300 acres of public park is effectively being denied to anyone who doesn't live in the immediate vicinity.

I cannot bring my children anywhere on public transport. What are you not getting about this? It is quite literally not permitted. Public transport is for necessary journeys only.

polesheep

Former Former wrote: »

I'm not worried about the zoo, I'm annoyed that 1300 acres of public park is effectively being denied to anyone who doesn't live in the immediate vicinity.

I cannot bring my children anywhere on public transport. What are you not getting about this? It is quite literally not permitted. Public transport is for necessary journeys only.

Do you really want to make long term plans for the City's transport around the current restrictions? They will pass, you know.

polesheep

iamwhoiam wrote: »

There are many people , elderly included , who would struggle with arthritis or other ailments who have no blue badge . Have you any solutions for these people or would you prefer they didn’t clutter up the enormous Phoenix Park ?

Have you any solutions? I suggested parking for blue badge holders and the elderly. Accommodating everyone who wants to park their car in the Park is cluttering up the Park and it will only get worse.

Former Former

polesheep wrote: »

Do you really want to make long term plans for the City's transport around the current restrictions? They will pass, you know.

Agreed.

That's why I think the OPW bringing in these restrictions now, when other options for getting to the park are non-existent, is absolutely crazy.

But the OPW are a strange bunch.

iamwhoiam

polesheep wrote: »

Have you any solutions? I suggested parking for blue badge holders and the elderly. Accommodating everyone who wants to park their car in the Park is cluttering up the Park and it will only get worse.

I wasnt replying to your post . I was replying to a post that mentioned only blue badge holders
My solution would be designated car parks with specific areas for blue badge , elderly and families with children .
When they are full they are full and you would need to leave or wait for a spot .
I would strongly object to a national park being only for those who can easily access it . Marley Park , Corkagh Park. St Catherines in Lucan all have car parks available to anyone who wants to use them as long as there are spaces left to park

polesheep

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I wasnt replying to your post . I was replying to a post that mentioned only blue badge holders
My solution would be designated car parks with specific areas for blue badge , elderly and families with children .
When they are full they are full and you would need to leave or wait for a spot .
I would strongly object to a national park being only for those who can easily access it . Marley Park , Corkagh Park. St Catherines in Lucan all have car parks available to anyone who wants to use them as long as there are spaces left to park

Why families with children? When my children were young we always used public transport where possible. The kids enjoyed it way more than a journey in the car. The bus into town, the train to the beach, they loved it.

Given how busy the roads are at the gates to the Phoenix Park, motorists waiting for a parking space would cause mayhem.

I too would object to a park being only available to those who could easily access it, but that is not the case with the Phoenix Park. There is ample public transport for getting there. I have a half hour walk to the Phoenix Park, that's one hour round trip before I actually walk in the park, but I'd rather do that than see the park full of cars.

beauf

polesheep wrote: »

Why families with children? When my children were young we always used public transport where possible. The kids enjoyed it way more than a journey in the car. The bus into town, the train to the beach, they loved it.

....

Which pandemic was that ...

I don’t think it’s fair to make it difficult, in some cases impossible, for people who don’t live beside the park (as I do) to access it. That said, it should not be a parking lot for those going into the city.

Parking for those using the park should be provided but arranged in such a way that parking to go into the city is prohibitively expensive. Maybe that is a free first 4 hours, and then a steep hourly charge beyond that.

In the UK there is a parking app called RingGo, on which you register your car and park pay according to the rules of street you are on. The parking warden just walks about and records the plate of each car and the app automatically works out whether the car has overstayed. No complexity, no moving the car and getting another ticket etc. Should be really easy. If we could just stop the ‘park and ride’ or ‘park and cycle’ merchants, then I think we’d be in a much better place with respect to cars in the park.

Also the gates should only provide access to car parks for park users, rather than facilitate through traffic, with the exception of the two end of the ave. that would make the whole park, away from the ave, a more pleasant place

There is ample parking in the park for those that wish to use the park.
The problem is lazy drivers who want to drive in the side gates & park right beside them!.
Keep parking away from the avenue & in car parks only. Much safer for pedestrians & park users.
They need to start clamping or towing cars parked on grass, then the drivers would go as far as a car park.
It's laziness from weekend users, & meanness from city commuters that ruin the park.

beauf

You've pretty much got what you asked for.

Side gates locked, no parking on the ave. And it's the weekend. No commuters.

...and ye are still complaining....

.. Only now its about the people using the park...

Just ban everyone.

Oh I don't think anyone is complaining about the way it is now!
We can see that is so much better in the park now that commuter parking is gone!
The only thing needed now is that people using the park, actually park in the car parks available.
No lazy parking please!

Larbre34

bubblypop wrote: »

Oh I don't think anyone is complaining about the way it is now!
We can see that is so much better in the park now that commuter parking is gone!
The only thing needed now is that people using the park, actually park in the car parks available.
No lazy parking please!

I'm absolutely complaining about the way it is now. There wasn't a thing wrong with how the Park operated prior to March and the consequences of what OPW are trying to make permanent now will come back to bite them.

I've given an extensive list of reasons in other posts so I won't rehearse them again, but I'm making it my business to lobby every Councillor and TD who represents the districts adjoining the Park to put the pressure on. Not all of them will agree but many of them tell me they are getting it in the neck over it from local communities and some of them agree with me outright.

OPW have acted unilaterally and over-zealously and they'll be skewered over it, its a national amenity that they take care of, not their private domain.

Skylinehead

Larbre34 wrote: »

There wasn't a thing wrong with how the Park operated prior to March

Other than it being a rat run completely chocked with traffic on every single park road every single weekday?

jams100

Skylinehead wrote: »

Other than it being a rat run completely chocked with traffic on every single park road every single weekday?

So just put bollards in certain areas no? So the side gates lead don't lead to castleknock gate for instance, that way it will give people a chance to park and use the park without clogging up Parkgate Street entrance

beauf

Skylinehead wrote: »

Other than it being a rat run completely chocked with traffic on every single park road every single weekday?

Problem with your theory is that its also been exactly the same (even worse) at the weekends and with half the country working from home. Some of the worst queues in a decade or more have been at the weekend. Likewise the parking.

Best just to avoid the place.

The fix is simply ban all cars, all the time, all gates. No exceptions.

beauf

jams100 wrote: »

So just put bollards in certain areas no? So the side gates lead don't lead to castleknock gate for instance, that way it will give people a chance to park and use the park without clogging up Parkgate Street entrance

Its the people using the park causing the problem as well.

Try parking at the Zoo on a bank holiday. There's cars everywhere. Every scrap of grass, every car park, every road. In a mile in every direction.

Larbre34

Skylinehead wrote: »

Other than it being a rat run completely chocked with traffic on every single park road every single weekday?

For the two rush hours. And now it'll just be the main Avenue even more busy with traffic at rush hour, at least the way it was, with all 8 gates open managed it better.

The City Council would never let them close it to through traffic anyway, not so long as the Áras, Deerfield and Garda HQ are in there, aside from obvious traffic consequences for the City generally, so there is no good reason not to manage it properly and deal with things realistically, which they are failing to do now.

Larbre34

beauf wrote: »

The fix is simply ban all cars, all the time, all gates. No exceptions.

Thats among the stupidest things I've ever heard and utterly fails to acknowledge the function of the Park and the consequences of doing what you suggest.

Larbre34

beauf wrote: »

Its the people using the park causing the problem as well.

Try parking at the Zoo on a bank holiday. There's cars everywhere. Every scrap of grass, every car park, every road. In a mile in every direction.

The bastards. How dare people use that amenity as an amenity.

Its not a bloody ornament.

beauf

Larbre34 wrote: »

Thats among the stupidest things I've ever heard and utterly fails to acknowledge the function of the Park and the consequences of doing what you suggest.

They actually did do it before. They closed the main road for 6~9 months when they rebuilt it. I used to cycle past the roadworks. Center of the park was so quiet, it was like a scene from I am Legend.

Usually they were working on about 10% of the road at anyone time, often you'd see no one working on it for days. They still closed the whole road for most of year though. Did the same with the north road. Closed for no reason for weeks, until public pressure got it reopened.

Did the same with the Gates. When they changed to one way, they had planned to close more gates, etc. Again public/political pressure meant they had to pull back on their plans.

So I say give them enough rope this time also. Traffic is light at the moment. Once everyone back at work, only then you'll see if it works or not.

ronivek

I live relatively close to the park and used to enjoy driving there in the evenings, parking just inside the Castleknock gate and going for a walk. Seems a bit silly that not even many of the locals can easily enjoy the park anymore.

I mean I get the whole Covid-19 and social distancing thing; but from the OPW's perspective it looks like they're happy enough to keep things as they are forevermore. I suppose it makes sense from their perspective as presumably their costs go right down the less traffic and people flow through the park. I'm sure it's also a benefit to the general biodiversity and health of the wildlife in the park; but it kinda takes away from the whole amenity aspect of it.

beauf

Larbre34 wrote: »

The bastards. How dare people use that amenity as an amenity.

Its not a bloody ornament.

OPW want it as a nature reserve.

jams100

beauf wrote: »

Its the people using the park causing the problem as well.

Try parking at the Zoo on a bank holiday. There's cars everywhere. Every scrap of grass, every car park, every road. In a mile in every direction.

God forbid people actually use Dublin's biggest park!

My suggestion still stands, put bollards up in certain areas to stop the rat run problem, if your solution is to entirely ban cars parking in the park then we are never going to agree with each other. The park should be able to be enjoyed by everyone, not everyone can use public transport and especially so with the social distancing on public transport at the minute.

Shefwedfan

Larbre34 wrote: »

Thats among the stupidest things I've ever heard and utterly fails to acknowledge the function of the Park and the consequences of doing what you suggest.

That is the plan, Dublin City council long term is shut the park, all gates with no access. It was a few years ago now but I think the whol main road would be converted from a slab of road.

If I remember it would have a bus service and parknride somewhere for people to get in/out

So yes it will happen just how soon but the plan and everything are done up

Larbre34

Larbre34 wrote: »

I'm absolutely complaining about the way it is now. There wasn't a thing wrong with how the Park operated prior to March and the consequences of what OPW are trying to make permanent now will come back to bite them.

I've given an extensive list of reasons in other posts so I won't rehearse them again, but I'm making it my business to lobby every Councillor and TD who represents the districts adjoining the Park to put the pressure on. Not all of them will agree but many of them tell me they are getting it in the neck over it from local communities and some of them agree with me outright.

OPW have acted unilaterally and over-zealously and they'll be skewered over it, its a national amenity that they take care of, not their private domain.

I'm not sure why you think there is a problem now?
No parking on Chesterfield ave is great & it is so much safer now.
Tow all cars that park in grass, people won't be long parking in car parks then.

ronivek

ronivek wrote: »

I live relatively close to the park and used to enjoy driving there in the evenings, parking just inside the Castleknock gate and going for a walk. Seems a bit silly that not even many of the locals can easily enjoy the park anymore..

What?
Why can't people enjoy the park?
You won't go now because you can't park just right inside the gate? Drive a bit further in & park somewhere else!
Jaysis.

brucky

I live right next to the park and think that all cars should be banned from the park and the surrounding areas as that would suit me and my family who I have to put first.

beauf

jams100 wrote: »

God forbid people actually use Dublin's biggest park!

My suggestion still stands, put bollards up in certain areas to stop the rat run problem, if your solution is to entirely ban cars parking in the park then we are never going to agree with each other. The park should be able to be enjoyed by everyone, not everyone can use public transport and especially so with the social distancing on public transport at the minute.

The fact remains is people using the park causing these problems. Closing the side gates and stopping people from parking on the ave hasn't fixed those issues.

People saying it's much nicer now that it's quieter. So the solution is obvious. Ban cars.

The flip side it takes out a major transport hub and shrinks it's catchment dramatically. But that's what they want. They want to exclude vastv amounts of people from the park.

Another end result is that popping into the zoo on your annual pass becomes a lengthy trek on public transport. The Zoo have realised that a lot of people can't get to the zoo because of the lockdown that been in place for 3 months so they've extended it for 1 month (stingy) if you're outside the 5 and 20k zones. Better get used to it zoo because with reduced access and less parking and more restrictions to come. The annual pass just became pointless for a lot of regulars.

Still there will enough people still using the park to make it viable. Hopefully....

beauf

bubblypop wrote: »

What?
Why can't people enjoy the park?
You won't go now because you can't park just right inside the gate? Drive a bit further in & park somewhere else!
Jaysis.

So you want cars to drive longer and further in the park. Where the nearest car park to the Castleknock gate. The visitor center? Pope's cross?

Shefwedfan

beauf wrote: »

The fact remains is people using the park causing these problems. Closing the side gates and stopping people from parking on the ave hasn't fixed those issues.

People saying it's much nicer now that it's quieter. So the solution is obvious. Ban cars.

The flip side it takes out a major transport hub and shrinks it's catchment dramatically. But that's what they want. They want to exclude vastv amounts of people from the park.

Another end result is that popping into the zoo on your annual pass becomes a lengthy trek on public transport. The Zoo have realised that a lot of people can't get to the zoo because of the lockdown that been in place for 3 months so they've extended it for 1 month (stingy) if you're outside the 5 and 20k zones. Better get used to it zoo because with reduced access and less parking and more restrictions to come. The annual pass just became pointless for a lot of regulars.

Still there will enough people still using the park to make it viable. Hopefully....

If they got space just before the halfway house and put in a parknride I dont see it stopping the visit to the zoo. Something like the little train thing you can get up the park now, would make more of a day for the kids to be honest.


The days the park has been shut down its a joy, you can walk around, kids run around and your not looking out for some idiot who thinks the park is a racing track. If shut down they could have more and more public events in the park. More fun runs etc....


In my eyes it makes perfect sense. I used to love beside the park, well close enough that I could cycle down. I dont anymore and would have to drive to a car park but I still see the benefits of closing the entire park.

jams100

jams100 wrote: »

My suggestion still stands, put bollards up in certain areas to stop the rat run problem, if your solution is to entirely ban cars parking in the park then we are never going to agree with each other. The park should be able to be enjoyed by everyone, not everyone can use public transport and especially so with the social distancing on public transport at the minute.

Agree with this. We cannot make the park accessible only to locals. But we have to stop it being used as a rat run and for Dublin city parking. Bollards would be sensible, to allow cars into car parks beside each peripheral gate but stop all through traffic except for down the ave. There was loads of frustration from motorists when the bollards were put into Military road years ago, but it has made that part of the park so much more pleasant for everyone. I cant imagine cars racing around the S-bends now like they used to.

beauf

Shefwedfan wrote: »

If they got space just before the halfway house and put in a parknride I dont see it stopping the visit to the zoo. Something like the little train thing you can get up the park now, would make more of a day for the kids to be honest.


The days the park has been shut down its a joy, you can walk around, kids run around and your not looking out for some idiot who thinks the park is a racing track. If shut down they could have more and more public events in the park. More fun runs etc....


In my eyes it makes perfect sense. I used to love beside the park, well close enough that I could cycle down. I dont anymore and would have to drive to a car park but I still see the benefits of closing the entire park.

Kinda pointless putting it before the halfway house as there already is on at the Navan Road parkway.

I'm pretty sure they will eventally build apartments on all of this land. |They tend to build on useful land for infrastructure. Then go ooops sorry, afterwards.

beauf

beauf wrote: »

So you want cars to drive longer and further in the park. Where the nearest car park to the Castleknock gate. The visitor center? Pope's cross?

Yep, no issue with park users parking in car parks, why would I?

Shefwedfan

beauf wrote: »

Kinda pointless putting it before the halfway house as there already is on at the Navan Road parkway.

I'm pretty sure they will eventally build apartments on all of this land. |They tend to build on useful land for infrastructure. Then go ooops sorry, afterwards.

Navan road parkway is too small so if they extended that would be my idea.....not sure what they can build around that with the canal etc....would work for park and ride

beauf

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Navan road parkway is too small so if they extended that would be my idea.....not sure what they can build around that with the canal etc....would work for park and ride

Is it ever full?

beauf

bubblypop wrote: »

Yep, no issue with park users parking in car parks, why would I?

They'll fill them to overflowing as they currently do.

You're dragging traffic into and through the park.

Shefwedfan

beauf wrote: »

Is it ever full?

No idea but it wouldnt have the spaces if you wanted it for the park......if you think the zoo normally gets over 1 mill visitors per year on its own

ronivek

bubblypop wrote: »

What?
Why can't people enjoy the park?
You won't go now because you can't park just right inside the gate? Drive a bit further in & park somewhere else!
Jaysis.

There were always spaces there just inside the gate; meaning I didn’t have to drive all the way through the park just to find parking and take up spaces that could be used by people who want to actually visit the pitches or zoo or whatever.

So now if I want to go for a walk in the park I need to make sure it’s not during peak times so I’m not wasting time finding parking; and even then I’m limited with where I can walk because the places to park are now so limited.

It’s hardly the end of the world; but it’s irritating to have parking spaces clearly available and an amenity I’ve used for a significant amount of time restricting access off the back of forced closures due to Covid-19.

Phil.x

beauf wrote: »

Is it ever full?

Yes it was every day, people in navan, trim, dunboyne etc use it. Drive to it then get the train.

Shefwedfan

Phil.x wrote: »

Yes it was every day, people in navan, trim, dunboyne etc use it. Drive to it then get the train.

I know the M3 Parkway outside Dunboyne after a slow start is now full everyday when the World is normal

beauf

Shefwedfan wrote: »

No idea but it wouldnt have the spaces if you wanted it for the park......if you think the zoo normally gets over 1 mill visitors per year on its own

We are ignoring capacity issues. They don't exist apparently. People are choosing to drive half way around the park, and park on the grass and ignoring the empty car parks. Apparently. Which is interesting because we had to wait to get a space in the visitor park the last day. Which has never happened before.

All in my imagination of course.

beauf

Phil.x wrote: »

Yes it was every day, people in navan, trim, dunboyne etc use it. Drive to it then get the train.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I know the M3 Parkway outside Dunboyne after a slow start is now full everyday when the World is normal

M3 Parkway explains why the Docklands train used to be crammed.

I've almost never used to the Navan Road Parkway. The rare time I did it was empty, but that would have been a few years back. Always wondered why it wasn't more popular with people from Meath. Obviously is now.

Going to even busier with people going to Park now.

Caranica

brucky wrote: »

I live right next to the park and think that all cars should be banned from the park and the surrounding areas as that would suit me and my family who I have to put first.

It's not your private park. If you want one of those move to Pembroke Square. The Park belongs to the people of Ireland and should be accessible to everyone.

beauf

beauf wrote: »

They'll fill them to overflowing as they currently do.

You're dragging traffic into and through the park.

why would you want half empty car parks?
a full car park is doing it's job.

if by 'traffic' you mean, park users? so?

Shefwedfan

beauf wrote: »

M3 Parkway explains why the Docklands train used to be crammed.

I've almost never used to the Navan Road Parkway. The rare time I did it was empty, but that would have been a few years back. Always wondered why it wasn't more popular with people from Meath. Obviously is now.

Going to even busier with people going to Park now.

The docklands train at rush hour is mental, next they will have the pushers to cram more people onto it.....I was meeting my brother one evening at M3 parkway, train stopped and literally the whole train came running off and jumped into cars. I was wondering what the hell was going on.



He explained that people are running because the queue now to get out of the carpark now will be crazy as the whole train is leaving.

ronivek

ronivek wrote: »

There were always spaces there just inside the gate; meaning I didn’t have to drive all the way through the park just to find parking and take up spaces that could be used by people who want to actually visit the pitches or zoo or whatever.

So now if I want to go for a walk in the park I need to make sure it’s not during peak times so I’m not wasting time finding parking; and even then I’m limited with where I can walk because the places to park are now so limited.

It’s hardly the end of the world; but it’s irritating to have parking spaces clearly available and an amenity I’ve used for a significant amount of time restricting access off the back of forced closures due to Covid-19.

It was a hard shoulder of the avenue, not a car park, now there is no parking there & it is much safer for all users.
Im not sure why you think you have less rights then a zoo goer? You are entitled to park same as every other park user?

Shefwedfan

Caranica wrote: »

It's not your private park. If you want one of those move to Pembroke Square. The Park belongs to the people of Ireland and should be accessible to everyone.

It would be with a park n ride.



You dont need to drive a car up the middle of it to say it is accessible

Caranica

Shefwedfan wrote: »

It would be with a park n ride.

You dont need to drive a car up the middle of it to say it is accessible

Park and ride is not a panacea. Posters on this thread have already detailed illnesses, disabilities and other reasons this would not work for them. Also the Park is open 24/7. In summer you have very early morning runners and very late at night runners. P&R would not work for them.