Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Goldengirl

acequion wrote: »

That's rubbish. You have three types of people in Irish society.

Those who absolutely love laws, will do anything to impose them dictatorially and who will follow them blindly and get apoplectic with rage when they detect any non compliance, complaining that we're all a lost cause.

Then you have the second group, who might not agree with the laws, might even hate them and resent them, but will follow blindly out of fear because subservience is their way and they'd have a horror of ever stepping out of line and being different. Those two groups constitute the great majority.

Then you have a minority who make up their own mind. Their decisions may not be always the wisest, might even be downright foolish at times, but they're their own decisions. Generally, in this small minority, people live and let live. I'd prefer them any day to the know it all dictators.

This is the post I was quoting and abridged.
Forgive me , you did not state in this post that you had superior intellect, but you imply that the majority of people are either blindly dictatorial because they choose to follow rules or are too afraid to think for themselves.
You place yourself in the category who makes up their own mind , and these people live and let live.
Sorry but their is no sign of you living and let live as you say.
You don't accept that a good number of people , as evidenced by some posting here have a right to intelligent reasoned argument AND be on the side of easing restrictions carefully ...labelled incorrectly pro lockdown by some who most definitely do not live and let live .
There is a large category of people, who have read the research for themselves and while they may not agree totally with all the restrictions go along, with them for what they feel is the greater good . And it is not for you or any other poster here on this thread to say they have not come to that decision through intelligent reasoning .

stephenjmcd

Goldengirl wrote: »

Understood it was those who could provide table service, more for social distancing than food.
Shame really but the smaller cost social pubs will not be reopening any time soon .
I can think of at least one favourite that has said it will be staying closed .

All other bars that don't have food open in July.

Guidelines to be issued during the week.

Most I know are planning to reopen end of June, know of 1 that's holding off until July.

storker

Goldengirl wrote: »

This is the post I was quoting and abridged.
Forgive me , you did not state in this post that you had superior intellect, but you imply that the majority of people are either blindly dictatorial because they choose to follow rules or are too afraid to think for themselves.
You place yourself in the category who makes up their own mind , and these people live and let live.
Sorry but their is no sign of you living and let live as you say.
You don't accept that a good number of people , as evidenced by some posting here have a right to intelligent reasoned argument AND be on the side of easing restrictions carefully ...labelled incorrectly pro lockdown by some who most definitely do not live and let live .

Bravo. The post you quoted displays a very similar mindset to that of the conspiracy theorist - everyone else is blindly following along while only those who a truly capable of reasoning can see the One True Narrative. I suppose it fulfils some psychological need or something. Strange, you'd think that those who were more virulently anti-restriction would be happier today, but they seem to be venting the same amount of spleen as they have throughout the thread. I'm reminded of Harvey Keitel's line in From Dusk 'til Dawn: "Are you such a f***ing loser that you can't tell when you've won?"

Goldengirl

storker wrote: »

Bravo. The post you quoted displays a very similar mindset to that of the conspiracy theorist - everyone else is blindly following along while only those who a truly capable of reasoning can see the One True Narrative. I suppose it fulfils some psychological need or something. Strange, you'd think that those who were more virulently anti-restriction would be happier today, but they seem to be venting the same amount of spleen as they have throughout the thread. I'm reminded of Harvey Keitel's line in From Dusk 'til Dawn: "Are you such a f***ing loser that you can't tell when you've won?"

Almost like their whole reason for living is to rail against the restrictions ?
Restrictions lifting ..Happy days! Not?

Goldengirl

stephenjmcd wrote: »

All other bars that don't have food open in July.

Guidelines to be issued during the week.

Most I know are planning to reopen end of June, know of 1 that's holding off until July.

The one I'm thinking about put up a sign saying they would be open when the virus was gone!
Small narrow bar with bench seating along the wall only , but the best atmosphere in town ;(

PTH2009

enjoy this song, kinds of reminds us of all the ****e going on now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYzY25b_uek

growleaves

Meet the man who took on the state over Covid-19 regulations and won [South Africa]

Judge Davis declared certain lockdown regulations irrational and unconstitutional and government was given 14 days in which to come up with new, amended regulations.

De Beer faced the government, together with his organisation Liberty Fighters Network, a voluntary organisation which fought for the rights to equal justice for all. The organisation, which was cited as the second applicant, had its case argued by lawyer Zehir Omar.

Asked why he decided to take the issues which were on everyone’s minds, but which no one dared to legally challenge, De Beer said: “We were treated like children. My mother taught me since I was small to be hygienic and to wash my hands. It is up to us to fight the spread of this virus, not up to the government to tell us what to do.”

De Beer said he and his organisation had been fighting for years for the human rights of people, especially those who are mistreated at the hands of their landlords and thrown out on the streets, for no fault of theirs.

“We decided to take on this fight after thousands of tenants were embroiled in disputes with their landlords, especially during the difficult economic times brought by the lockdown regulations.

“We turned to the government for help and even to the police, but there was no help. We decided enough is enough and we will fight these regulations in court.”

Penfailed

Goldengirl wrote: »

This is the post I was quoting and abridged.
Forgive me , you did not state in this post that you had superior intellect, but you imply that the majority of people are either blindly dictatorial because they choose to follow rules or are too afraid to think for themselves.
You place yourself in the category who makes up their own mind , and these people live and let live.
Sorry but their is no sign of you living and let live as you say.
You don't accept that a good number of people , as evidenced by some posting here have a right to intelligent reasoned argument AND be on the side of easing restrictions carefully ...labelled incorrectly pro lockdown by some who most definitely do not live and let live .
There is a large category of people, who have read the research for themselves and while they may not agree totally with all the restrictions go along, with them for what they feel is the greater good . And it is not for you or any other poster here on this thread to say they have not come to that decision through intelligent reasoning .

Well said.

bb1234567

Will be interesting to see whether these large public protests across the world will cause any noteworthy spikes in cases, particularly the 1 million person one in Washington, it will essentially prove flat out whether lockdowns might have been overreactive measures

Micky 32

bb1234567 wrote: »

Will be interesting to see whether these large public protests across the world will cause any noteworthy spikes in cases, particularly the 1 million person one in Washington, it will essentially prove flat out whether lockdowns might have been overreactive measures

But what if the mass protests weren’t going on? The results could be quite different under normal circumstances.

acequion

Goldengirl wrote: »

This is the post I was quoting and abridged.
Forgive me , you did not state in this post that you had superior intellect, but you imply that the majority of people are either blindly dictatorial because they choose to follow rules or are too afraid to think for themselves.
You place yourself in the category who makes up their own mind , and these people live and let live.
Sorry but their is no sign of you living and let live as you say.
You don't accept that a good number of people , as evidenced by some posting here have a right to intelligent reasoned argument AND be on the side of easing restrictions carefully ...labelled incorrectly pro lockdown by some who most definitely do not live and let live .
There is a large category of people, who have read the research for themselves and while they may not agree totally with all the restrictions go along, with them for what they feel is the greater good . And it is not for you or any other poster here on this thread to say they have not come to that decision through intelligent reasoning .

Once again you are twisting my words.Where did I say that I don't accept that some people are on the side of easing restrictions carefully? Or that I don't accept that some people arrived at those conclusions through their own intelligent reasoning? Where did I once even mention the word "pro lockdown? And if you took off your blinkered specs you might see that people who hate dictators, sheep, cowards are indeed the type of people who live and let live. They live their own lives through their own decisions and allow others to do likewise. You seem incapable of understanding that and seem more interested in attacking the poster rather than the post. I stand by my views that a majority of people are either self appointed leaders /dictators or self appointed led, with a small number more individual minded. If you disagree that's fine. Why get personal?

storker wrote: »

Bravo. The post you quoted displays a very similar mindset to that of the conspiracy theorist - everyone else is blindly following along while only those who a truly capable of reasoning can see the One True Narrative. I suppose it fulfils some psychological need or something. Strange, you'd think that those who were more virulently anti-restriction would be happier today, but they seem to be venting the same amount of spleen as they have throughout the thread. I'm reminded of Harvey Keitel's line in From Dusk 'til Dawn: "Are you such a f***ing loser that you can't tell when you've won?"

Oh wow! Such an over reaction to an opinion! Touched a nerve did it? Who are all these "virulently anti restriction people" that are also "conspiracy theorists"? Would they be that small minority who actually question some of the restrictions? I wonder who the real conspiracy theorists are?

Goldengirl wrote: »

Almost like their whole reason for living is to rail against the restrictions ?
Restrictions lifting ..Happy days! Not?

Again the wild exaggeration looks like my post and some like it have really touched a nerve. There really is a sense here of how dare anybody question the sacred restrictions, how dare anybody look to other countries and wonder why it's so much stricter here.

All proves my original point. There are people who are so into laws, all laws, that they become apoplectic at those who dare question them.

By the way I've said my say, so you guys go ahead and have the last word and some thorough finger shaking while you're at it.

faceman

Regarding pubs and the serving of food. As great as it is I wonder if it will mean they will have to curtail opening hours. Would be hard to justify people going for food at 11 or 12 when traditionally bars normally stop serving food at 9/10.

Ginger n Lemon

storker wrote: »

Bravo. The post you quoted displays a very similar mindset to that of the conspiracy theorist - everyone else is blindly following along while only those who a truly capable of reasoning can see the One True Narrative. I suppose it fulfils some psychological need or something. Strange, you'd think that those who were more virulently anti-restriction would be happier today, but they seem to be venting the same amount of spleen as they have throughout the thread. I'm reminded of Harvey Keitel's line in From Dusk 'til Dawn: "Are you such a f***ing loser that you can't tell when you've won?"

Won? Are you seriously that out of touch that you think anyone won anything here? We have 28% unemployment in April, 26% in May. Highest in Europe. Predicted unemployment until end of next year is 12-14%.

To give you some background - we had 5% unemployment more or less for the last 3 years, and still couldnt get the number of people on trolleys down in hospitals. We still couldnt sort out our housing issue.

This isnt a prediction of doom, this is to merely point out that if you think we should be happy with our pubs, cinemas, gyms, barbers opening on 20th of July you are mistaken. And I hope that you arent thinking that. that is, 1.5 months away from today...... 6 weeks. 6 full weeks of this nonsense of thousands of people protesting EVERY BLOODY WEEK without masks or social distancing and yet I cant spend 30 minutes in barbers in close contact with 1 individual who would be wearing a mask and gloves.

PS only thing anyone will win in this country is Guinness world record for slowest exit from lockdown. Got any quotes for slowest kid in the class references?

Idbatterim

Many politicians were getting g it in the neck from constituents, likely also many business owners and even the idiot politicians were going to grasp at one stage, with six billion deficit in a single month was totally unsustainable..here we are though with six weeks before certain businesses re- open? Why does everything here need to move at a glacial rate, even when they know it's the wrong strategy?!

I feel if recession hits , it will be entirely brought about by the governments actions. Before this, our growth was significantly ahead of eurozone average...

Ginger n Lemon

God help them

However, the Irish Hairdressers’ Federation – which is trying to safeguard 25,000 jobs – will intensify its lobbying of government, early next week, with an eye on earlier reopening approval than July 20.

As Ibec has previously stated, the length of the lockdown in Ireland will help determine the scale of the fall in economic activity,” said Ibec boss Danny McCoy.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/hairdressers-want-further-trimming-of-shortened-reopening-roadmap-1003683.html

the kelt

Idbatterim wrote: »

Many politicians were getting g it in the neck from constituents, likely also many business owners and even the idiot politicians were going to grasp at one stage, with six billion deficit in a single month was totally unsustainable..here we are though with six weeks before certain businesses re- open? Why does everything here need to move at a glacial rate, even when they know it's the wrong strategy?!

I feel if recession hits , it will be entirely brought about by the governments actions. Before this, our growth was significantly ahead of eurozone average...

Yet according to many on here the vast vast majority of people in the country were happy with the speed of the restrictions etc and didn’t believe we should be opening up any quicker.

Could it be that really wasn’t the case when you look at the almost 180 degree turnaround by the government in terms of opening, I mean I haven’t heard any rumblings of discontent, no mass hysteria now that we are opening up too soon, no talk of contacting political reps to say this is all happening too soon.

Could it be possible that really a lot of people weren’t really that opinionated when it came to keeping the restrictions in place, no real thought apart from well I’ll just do what I’m told and that’s it and anyone who doesn’t is nothing but a ........

It’s almost like “the government says we should stay at home and I really really agree with it and not just because I’m told to and here’s why, .....”

And now it’s like “oh the government are happy to really speed up things, well that was always my outlook really, no I never gave all those reasons why we shouldn’t open up quicker and no it’s not just cos the government etc say it’s ok now that I’m ok with it, I can think for myself don’t ye know”

It’s just kinda funny how aggressive people were in saying we shouldn’t speed up restrictions which had apparently nothing to do with following guidelines and now just happy enough with how things are now, such aggression you would have thought would lead to people being outraged over this turnaround.

Idbatterim

Yeah in relation to reading of restrictions, vote in this journal poll and see the still shocking results!!!!

https://www.thejournal.ie/poll-ireland-reopening-5116526-Jun2020/

Too many people still having it far foo good with the restrictions as loads havent felt the fall out yet. Several hundred thousand getting more on the dole than working for a start...

Then you have the other geniuses who wanted everything lockdown " but will be complaining about budget cuts hitting " de vulneable" in the autumn. It's a country run by idiots , supported by idiots

MickeyLeari

the kelt wrote: »

Yet according to many on here the vast vast majority of people in the country were happy with the speed of the restrictions etc and didn’t believe we should be opening up any quicker.

Could it be that really wasn’t the case when you look at the almost 180 degree turnaround by the government in terms of opening, I mean I haven’t heard any rumblings of discontent, no mass hysteria now that we are opening up too soon, no talk of contacting political reps to say this is all happening too soon.

Could it be possible that really a lot of people weren’t really that opinionated when it came to keeping the restrictions in place, no real thought apart from well I’ll just do what I’m told and that’s it and anyone who doesn’t is nothing but a ........

It’s almost like “the government says we should stay at home and I really really agree with it and not just because I’m told to and here’s why, .....”

And now it’s like “oh the government are happy to really speed up things, well that was always my outlook really, no I never gave all those reasons why we shouldn’t open up quicker and no it’s not just cos the government etc say it’s ok now that I’m ok with it, I can think for myself don’t he know”

It’s just kinda funny how aggressive people were in saying we shouldn’t speed up restrictions which had apparently nothing to do with following guidelines and now just happy enough with how things are now, such aggression you would have taught would lead to people being outraged over this turnaround.

Questionnaires can be formulated and presented to lead to a bias.

Idbatterim

"Call them a caretaker government but they have certainly taken ‘Care’ of most of us with their timely interactions across a range of areas… Pandemic payments, supports for businesses etc etc."

That is the most thanked comment under that journal article. Lol! That's what you ate up against!!!

acequion

the kelt wrote: »

Yet according to many on here the vast vast majority of people in the country were happy with the speed of the restrictions etc and didn’t believe we should be opening up any quicker.

Could it be that really wasn’t the case when you look at the almost 180 degree turnaround by the government in terms of opening, I mean I haven’t heard any rumblings of discontent, no mass hysteria now that we are opening up too soon, no talk of contacting political reps to say this is all happening too soon.

Could it be possible that really a lot of people weren’t really that opinionated when it came to keeping the restrictions in place, no real thought apart from well I’ll just do what I’m told and that’s it and anyone who doesn’t is nothing but a ........

It’s almost like “the government says we should stay at home and I really really agree with it and not just because I’m told to and here’s why, .....”

And now it’s like “oh the government are happy to really speed up things, well that was always my outlook really, no I never gave all those reasons why we shouldn’t open up quicker and no it’s not just cos the government etc say it’s ok now that I’m ok with it, I can think for myself don’t he know”

It’s just kinda funny how aggressive people were in saying we shouldn’t speed up restrictions which had apparently nothing to do with following guidelines and now just happy enough with how things are now, such aggression you would have taught would lead to people being outraged over this turnaround.

I think you've summed up a lot of it here and it goes back to my point and one shared by many here, that a majority of people, especially in our small conservative country, are either dictators /control freaks or the subservient followers. Whatever is the current narrative they'll push it and shake their fingers at those who dare deviate from the script.

Add to that the amount of keyboard warriors who surface anonymously online,very much here on boards, facebook, the journal and such sites. The degree of zealotry, finger wagging,bitching about neighbours, is very unsavoury but it's clearly out there. Plus, the most prolific posters have had oodles of time on their hands to express their favourite fetisch of the day. Out in real life people are much more toned down in expressing their opinions.And out in real life people are busier. I know loads of people who never get drawn into arguments on internet fora.

It may surprise my sparring partners that I fully supported the lockdown and always took Covid 19 very seriously. I have a very frail and elderly mother who I guarded with my life to keep her safe.

But the time has now come to take a more balanced approach. There are so many other factors at play, the economy, people's mental health, the need to adapt to this "new normal" and try to live safely while waiting for a vaccine. People like my mum and the many other vulnerable must still be kept safe but they shouldn't expect the world to stay shut indefinitely and I'm sure the reasonable among them, don't.

As someone else stated, I'll not be impressed if I'm one of the workers,who having worked my ass off in my job since this started, will be later expected to pick up a huge tab for the Government's reluctance to get economic activity restarted more quickly.

storker

acequion wrote: »

Oh wow! Such an over reaction to an opinion! Touched a nerve did it? Who are all these "virulently anti restriction people" that are also "conspiracy theorists"? Would they be that small minority who actually question some of the restrictions? I wonder who the real conspiracy theorists are?

Wow indeed. You appear to be projecting when you talk of apoplectic reactions. Try calming down and rereading my post, in which I didn't say that questioning restrictions was bad, what I said was that claiming that anyone who disagreed with you was just doing so because they were sheep blindly accepting the government narrative is a characteristic of conspiracy theorist arguments. You didn't touch any nerve (although I certainly appear to have done so), you just reminded me of behaviour I've seen before in online discussions.

As for who is "virulently anti restrictions", I would classify those as being anti restriction (no problem with that) but with a side serving of contempt and insult for those posters who weren't marching in step i.e. the accusations of "sitting on hole" enjoying €350 per week, or peering out terrified through letterboxes, curtain-twitching finger-waggers, anti-social troglodytes, crypto-fascists...that sort of thing. You don't have to look very hard to find evidence of it. That's before I even go into the disregard for life that was displayed by some.

Idbatterim

I really think the groupthink here is largely down to our single view, group think media sheep. I watch news on tv from other countries and recently been seeing so many on it, Highlighting all the downsides of lockdown and the cost that comes with it. You dont see that here, its sonessy fir media/ government to control the narrative

iamwhoiam

Idbatterim wrote: »

I really think the groupthink here is largely down to our single view, group think media sheep. I watch news on tv from other countries and recently ibaj seeing so many on it. Highlighting all the downsides of lockdown and the cost that comes with it. You dont see that here, its sonessy fir media/ government to control the narrative

Some people just have a mind of their own and an opinion that doesnt match yours .

storker

acequion wrote: »

It may surprise my sparring partners that I fully supported the lockdown and always took Covid 19 very seriously. I have a very frail and elderly mother who I guarded with my life to keep her safe.

But the time has now come to take a more balanced approach. There are so many other factors at play, the economy, people's mental health, the need to adapt to this "new normal" and try to live safely while waiting for a vaccine. People like my mum and the many other vulnerable must still be kept safe but they shouldn't expect the world to stay shut indefinitely and I'm sure the reasonable among them, don't.

Delighted to read that, but slightly confused, because I'm not against the opening up of restrictions either, never expected or wanted it to last indefinitely. I recall that the original timeline was announced with an observation that things could be accelerated in accordance with how things were working out, and thus it has come to pass. Fine. Similarly I have an 87-year-old mother who we have taken great pains to protect - much to her occasional annoyance as one of her greatest pleasures is a prowl around the shops. Tomorrow morning I'm taking her on her first trip to Tesco since the lockdown started. She'll have to wear a mask and receive instruction today from my wife (a nurse) in the correct use of it. Otherwise she's good to go.

Idbatterim

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Some people just have a mind of their own and an opinion that doesnt match yours .

I agree, but many just follow rte blindly etc, hane no critical thinking themselves and arent even presented with any other views from the media. Its dangerous in my opinion....

Penfailed

acequion wrote: »

It may surprise my sparring partners that I fully supported the lockdown and always took Covid 19 very seriously. I have a very frail and elderly mother who I guarded with my life to keep her safe.

You typed a very long post having a go at people for blindly following lockdown and not thinking for themselves...and then you post that ^^^

Idbatterim

Idbatterim wrote: »

I agree, but many just follow rte blindly etc, hane no critical thinking themselves and arent even presented with any other views from the media. Its dangerous in my opinion....

Why did you vote for fg in the last election then, for someone who claims to be a critical thinker?

Funny how most FG voters/supporters on here claim that the very politicians that they voted for are useless and always were yet still voted for them. It's sort of like they have some sort of ideological group think that prevents them from doing anything else.

Idbatterim

DubInMeath wrote: »

Why did you vote for fg in the last election then, for someone who claims to be a critical thinker?

Funny how most FG voters/supporters on here claim that the very politicians that they voted for are useless and always were yet still voted for them. It's sort of like they have some sort of ideological group think that prevents them from doing anything else.

Are you serious, vote for fg? I did in the two elections before the one just gone. Not a chance they'll get any vite again with varadkarcat the helm, supporting g rip off housing and using those thsy claimed to represent, to be cash cows for the obscene welfare state that they fully support , I'm referring to the cradle to grave welfare etc

Ginger n Lemon

Shure, lets keep barbers shut until 20th of July, in the meantime

Over 3,000 people held a Black Lives Matter demonstration outside the US embassy in Dublin today. - 6th of June

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/thousands-of-people-take-part-in-black-lives-matter-protests-across-ireland-39265087.html

Look at the all the beautiful social distancing observed by nobody.

What the hell are we actually doing as a country currently - allowing 3000 people to gather and break all social distancing rules, while keeping barber shops, cinemas, gyms and pubs closed for further 6 weeks? This is just nonsense of epic proportions.

We are keeping businesses shut to control the R number right? Get them new cases to as low as possible. and then our law enforcement allows 3000 to gather for 2nd time in 2 weeks.

I dont know why ANY business would keep shut for even 1 more day with all this rubbish carry on.

PS look at all the pictures of the protest, no gloves were worn that day.

Speakerboxx

I suppose the lockdown merchants have nothing to cry about now that the country is going back to normality again and everyone can return back to work again.