Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

frillyleaf

Naos wrote: »

People complained we had no roadmap. Our government gave a roadmap.
People complained the roadmap was too slow. Our government said the speed of our roadmap would depend on the progress we make.

So what do those people do next?

Went to black market barbers (because a haircut is that important), disobeyed restrictions, sided with protestors, rallied behind pubs & shops to forge the phases and open anyway.

And now they are complaining that the government are not speeding up the roadmap and wondering why.

It was always said the road map could change depending on progress, summer camps and travel limits will be gone by 29 June and possibly hairdressers and barbers

Maestro85

Arghus wrote: »

I know two people that had it. One was pretty okay. The other guy was quite sick for a few weeks and he's a fit guy in his twenties.

A friend of my neighbour and his friend's son both got it. The older man died. I don't know much about his medical history, but he wasn't elderly. The son was in hospital, but has since recovered.

A neighbour of mine, in her 80s passed away from it and one of the lads I work with had it but recovered. He was let go because he was seasonal though but I kept in touch with him. He says there are times he feels as weak as a kitten though (latergic a lot).

Maestro85

frillyleaf wrote: »

It was always said the road map could change depending on progress, summer camps and travel limits will be gone by 29 June and possibly hairdressers and barbers

Ignorant question but I was told at work that all of these would be opening on the 29th. Is this not the case now?

NotMOL

hmmm wrote: »

I understand he has a pre-existing condition which would make him at risk should he get coronovirus, yet is still working his arse off trying to do his best for the country and not just sitting around on Internet forums all day.

I believe he has crohn's disease? I don't think that puts him at any more risk than the average person

MickeyLeari

rob316 wrote: »

Honest question to posters how many people do you know who got diagnosed with this? I'm in Cork and I know 1 person.

6 people. 2 overseas and 4 in Ireland. 1 hospitalised (over 70), 2 took sick leave for about a week, 1 had light symptoms and 2 did not feel anything.

growleaves

0 people

Rubberchikken

There was no issue seemingly with a local traveller funeral yesterday in our town.
Easily 90 to 100 vehicles outside graveyard. This included a clear van and some cars with NI regs.

Why have most people abided by the rule of 10 max at a funeral and this person was deed to important to respect that rule?

The Witches Cat

Hi. Does anyone know if its law to self isolate for 14 days if you return from a trip abroad? Or is it just recommended? Thanks

bb1234567

The Witches Cat wrote: »

Hi. Does anyone know if its law to self isolate for 14 days if you return from a trip abroad? Or is it just recommended? Thanks

Believe you have to give your address so they can check to see if you are isolating. Though I'm sure they will not have the manpower to carry out checks when normal travel resumes, it would be an impossible task

The Witches Cat

bb1234567 wrote: »

Believe you have to give your address so they can check to see if you are isolating. Though I'm sure they will not have the manpower to carry out checks when normal travel resumes, it would be an impossible task

Hi. Thanks for that. I read that myself about giving address but as far as i can make out that is only for tracing purposes in case they need to contact you. The wording of what i read is "You are asked to self isolate" so just wondering if this is law.

MickeyLeari

The Witches Cat wrote: »

Hi. Thanks for that. I read that myself about giving address but as far as i can make out that is only for tracing purposes in case they need to contact you. The wording of what i read is "You are asked to self isolate" so just wondering if this is law.

It is not the law - it is advisory. The law is to fill out a form.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2020/si/181/made/en/pdf

Pete_Cavan

VonLuck wrote: »

You do realise that's why the death rates are so low, right? Because of the restrictions?

It's like pumping money into policing and as a result the crime rate drops. "What a waste of money, there's barely any crime!".

The death rates are so low because of the restrictions in March and April. The restrictions now are not limiting the Covid-19 death rate as the virus has been eliminated from the community, as per Holohan. Harking back to the effect the restrictionshhad in March/April when the virus was active in the community is not relevant to now. Nobody is arguing against restrictions back then so why do people always go back to then when supporting continued restrictions now?

The restrictions now are though increasing the death rates to come due to late diagnosis and delayed treatment of all the other illness, both physical and mental, which are still as prevalent as before but are being ignored. Then there is the economic fallout, the lose of livelihoods, the reduction in standards of living, etc. Every day of prolonged unnecessary restrictions is throwing more people and businesses on the scrap heap.

The analogy on pumping money into policing is not accurate. Crime can and does rise with lack of policing. Experience in other countries is showing that cases of Covid-19 do not automatically rise with reduced restrictions if social distancing and other measures are maintained. There are countries into their fourth week of schools/bars/restaurants/hairdressers open and cases continue to drop, yet we have to wait another month. Why do we ignore the evidence of the actual real life experiment happening in front of us in favour of some theory for which there is no evidence?

faceman

I read the oireachtas committee debate on travel and quarantine. Jesus wept what a farce. Interpreting it at face value the quarantine and recommendation to avoid non essential international travel won’t be lifting anytime soon. They seem dead set against it even after we can freely move around Ireland.

There’s a denial that introducing travel bans earlier would have made any difference! (So why introduce it now?)

They have no sensical answer on why visitors from Northern Ireland (or internationally) are exempt from restrictions of movement. And at one point it’s mentioned that it’s not our place to comment on U.K. policy!

You couldn’t make this stuff up!

Here’s the link for those interested

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/special_committee_on_covid-19_response/2020-06-02/5/

hi5

Has the 'for exercise purposes' been dropped from the 5km travel restrictions?
They are talking (on RTE) about increasing it to 20km but no mention of 'for exercise purposes'.

hmmm

hmmm wrote: »

I heard a doctor say he thinks about 1% of the population has had this - so you're not going to know many, about 1 in a hundred people.

Unless you talked to the doctor 2 months ago he is very wrong - that would be less than 50,000 cases and mean we have a fatality rate of over 3%. Based on estimates from other countries it would be at least 3 times this number.

MickeyLeari

faceman wrote: »

I read the oireachtas committee debate on travel and quarantine. Jesus wept what a farce. Interpreting it at face value the quarantine and recommendation to avoid non essential international travel won’t be lifting anytime soon. They seem dead set against it even after we can freely move around Ireland.

There’s a denial that introducing travel bans earlier would have made any difference! (So why introduce it now?)

They have no sensical answer on why visitors from Northern Ireland (or internationally) are exempt from restrictions of movement. And at one point it’s mentioned that it’s not our place to comment on U.K. policy!

You couldn’t make this stuff up!

Here’s the link for those interested

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/special_committee_on_covid-19_response/2020-06-02/5/

That is at best worrying. We have shut ourselves down for the next three months, but things may change but we are not sure if they may change or how they may change but for now we are shut down.

the kelt

Naos wrote: »

People complained we had no roadmap. Our government gave a roadmap.
People complained the roadmap was too slow. Our government said the speed of our roadmap would depend on the progress we make.

So what do those people do next?

Went to black market barbers (because a haircut is that important), disobeyed restrictions, sided with protestors, rallied behind pubs & shops to forge the phases and open anyway.

And now they are complaining that the government are not speeding up the roadmap and wondering why.

We wanted a road map and got one.

When it arrived we noticed that the road map was slower than the rest of the entire continent in some cases by months.

People then remembered all the talk about how great a job we done and when that was queried people were told to shut up, look at how bad it was in those other countries and our actions meant we would be opening up quicker than these countries, so people wondered well what happened there?

People then wondered well what are the actual numbers and metrics required to move from phase to phase, no one answered but we can move through the phases quicker if the numbers dictate.

People then kind of questioned this rhetoric due to the fact that we couldn’t even fully proceed with the first phase due to a typo on the plan.

But the argument was that numbers wouldn’t drop (I know what numbers but all the numbers dropped, people in icu, R0, daily cases etc so safe to assume the relevant numbers are in there somewhere) if people ignored the restrictions which was going to do everything from delay the phases to 2nd and 3rd waves and going back a phase.

Yet according to you we won’t be speeding up the road map because people are ignoring restrictions anyway despite the fact that if that’s the case and all the numbers are going in the right direction (ie more people and services open that’s what was planned and numbers still going down) we should actually be jumping phases.

Yet your post reads like we have a scenario where almost by accident we have enough to be speeding through the phases yet won’t because we should be punished for opening up things that weren’t meant to open!

Naos

hi5 wrote: »

Has the 'for exercise purposes' been dropped from the 5km travel restrictions?
They are talking (on RTE) about increasing it to 20km but no mention of 'for exercise purposes'.

The 5km limit was for exercise, social visits and visits to public amenities.

I would imagine the 20km will be the same.

Jimmy Garlic

Naos wrote: »

The 5km limit was for exercise, social visits and visits to public amenities.

I would imagine the 20km will be the same.

Thank god only a tiny minority of people take any heed of this utter tripe. What happens 21km? Will the grim reaper jump out of a hole in the ditch?

stephenjmcd

faceman wrote: »

I read the oireachtas committee debate on travel and quarantine. Jesus wept what a farce. Interpreting it at face value the quarantine and recommendation to avoid non essential international travel won’t be lifting anytime soon. They seem dead set against it even after we can freely move around Ireland.

There’s a denial that introducing travel bans earlier would have made any difference! (So why introduce it now?)

They have no sensical answer on why visitors from Northern Ireland (or internationally) are exempt from restrictions of movement. And at one point it’s mentioned that it’s not our place to comment on U.K. policy!

You couldn’t make this stuff up!

Here’s the link for those interested

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/special_committee_on_covid-19_response/2020-06-02/5/

Watched some it last night and said to another poster at the time take anything Shane Ross says with a giant truck load of salt, the man hasn't a clue and never did have, his handling of various matters when minister was inept, he's no longer a TD and essentially is giving lip service until he's replaced in a new government.

There's not a hope in hell that they'll be allowed to impose a mandatory quarantine when everywhere else in europe is opening up, it'll cause far too much damage to tourism and hospitality long term, this includes jobs at airlines and airports. There is and will be too much pressure for them to ignore

ZX7R

Micky 32 wrote: »

Going by Ross’s comments in the dail I’d say the 14 day quarantine will Without doubt be extended. “It’s not possible to say when the “mandatory” 14 day isolation for travellers into Ireland will end” It’s all up to the NPHET.

Ross claims it will be 2023 before he sees returning to pre-Covid levels . He claims He can’t see it next year going back to business as usual.

I wonder are they planning to keep the quarantine beyond next year. Interestingly how he calls it the “mandatory “ quarantine.

What Ross said is totally at odds with what Simon coveney said in the dail yesterday
He said he hoped by late July into August there will be an opportunity he hoped people will be able to take breaks and holidays.
And before if safe to do so.
The passport office is due to open next week with the processing of none essential passports resuming.
As people would need a passport if they needed to travel during the year.
When he was asked about our travel quarantine he said at the moment most European countries are doing the same for the time being but it will have to reassessed.

frillyleaf

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

The death rates are so low because of the restrictions in March and April. The restrictions now are not limiting the Covid-19 death rate as the virus has been eliminated from the community, as per Holohan. Harking back to the effect the restrictionshhad in March/April when the virus was active in the community is not relevant to now. Nobody is arguing against restrictions back then so why do people always go back to then when supporting continued restrictions now?

The restrictions now are though increasing the death rates to come due to late diagnosis and delayed treatment of all the other illness, both physical and mental, which are still as prevalent as before but are being ignored. Then there is the economic fallout, the lose of livelihoods, the reduction in standards of living, etc. Every day of prolonged unnecessary restrictions is throwing more people and businesses on the scrap heap.

The analogy on pumping money into policing is not accurate. Crime can and does rise with lack of policing. Experience in other countries is showing that cases of Covid-19 do not automatically rise with reduced restrictions if social distancing and other measures are maintained. There are countries into their fourth week of schools/bars/restaurants/hairdressers open and cases continue to drop, yet we have to wait another month. Why do we ignore the evidence of the actual real life experiment happening in front of us in favour of some theory for which there is no evidence?

It is likely because our health system can’t manage a surge compared to other countries. We are doing well and the lower the cases become the quicker restrictions will be lifted. Phase 2 will likely stay as it is with minor adjustments but phase 3 will have stages from 4 and 5 brought into it

frillyleaf

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Thank god only a tiny minority of people take any heed of this utter tripe. What happens 21km? Will the grim reaper jump out of a hole in the ditch?

In fairness I can see the logic of the travel restriction. It means people aren’t travelling from infected regions and bringing it with them to regions that are now infection free. What they are doing is working so this 20km will likely be lifted at the end of June.

uli84

frillyleaf wrote: »

It is likely because our health system can’t manage a surge compared to other countries. We are doing well and the lower the cases become the quicker restrictions will be lifted. Phase 2 will likely stay as it is with minor adjustments but phase 3 will have stages from 4 and 5 brought into it

Don’t have time to research but I bet there are countries out there with worse health systems that are well ahead of us when it comes to easing the restrictions

alta stare

I honestly think it doesnt matter what Leo says on Friday. People are fed up so they are moving around alot more now. This 20km thing is irrelevant. The majority wont take any heed of it. The roads are busier, talks of more shops opening, people are becoming more vocal in their disapproval of these restrictions going on any longer. The Government will face anger if they keep to their silly drawn out plan. They are treating us like bold children while destroying our livelyhoods and the economy. Enough is enough.

Jimmy Garlic

frillyleaf wrote: »

In fairness I can see the logic of the travel restriction. It means people aren’t travelling from infected regions and bringing it with them to regions that are now infection free. What they are doing is working so this 20km will likely be lifted at the end of June.

There is no logic to it.. who is walking, jogging, cycling a 40km round trip? Very few. Shur anyone in a car beyond the magic 20km limit is ‘shopping’, not that the guards bother asking anyone anymore as they realized how silly and unenforceable the Simon Says game was weeks ago, they are only going through the motions. It’s a ridiculous and tedious farce, time to call time on the nonsense, the only ones bothering with it are the handful of extreme hypochondriacs still wearing masks.

frillyleaf

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

There is no logic to it.. who is walking, jogging, cycling a 40km round trip? Very few. Shur anyone in a car beyond the magic 20km limit is ‘shopping’, not that the guards bother asking anyone anymore as they realized how silly and unenforceable the Simon Says game was weeks ago, they are only going through the motions. It’s a ridiculous and tedious farce, time to call time on the nonsense, the only ones bothering with it are the handful of extreme hypochondriacs still wearing masks.

I would guess this is to stop people from travelling to different parts of the country to holiday homes, renting Airbnb homes. Plenty would. If the 20km was lifted massive numbers of people would travel to different parts of the country just as we are going into phase 2. If they can keep numbers and spread as low as possible for phase 2 we may be open up much more in phase 3 with no restrictions on movement. As as last weekend checkpoints were set up to deter people from going to beaches

alta stare

frillyleaf wrote: »

I would guess this is to stop people from travelling to different parts of the country to holiday homes, renting Airbnb homes. Plenty would. If the 20km was lifted massive numbers of people would travel to different parts of the country just as we are going into phase 2. If they can keep numbers and spread as low as possible for phase 2 we may be open up much more in phase 3 with no restrictions on movement. As as last weekend checkpoints were set up to deter people from going to beaches

I mentioned here only the other day that i seen the Gardai set up a half arsed checkpoint at a beach i was at. They looked and acted like they had no interest in stopping people. The car park was fairly full. Id say they are fed up of it too. Of course there will always be a handful of jobsworths who will do anything to feel important but hey thankfully they arent many of them around at this point.

sideswipe

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

There is no logic to it.. who is walking, jogging, cycling a 40km round trip? Very few. Shur anyone in a car beyond the magic 20km limit is ‘shopping’, not that the guards bother asking anyone anymore as they realized how silly and unenforceable the Simon Says game was weeks ago, they are only going through the motions. It’s a ridiculous and tedious farce, time to call time on the nonsense, the only ones bothering with it are the handful of extreme hypochondriacs still wearing masks.

I think you'd be surprised by the number that are still abiding by it. I plenty know people who haven't seen parents and family since restrictions came in, there have been many examples posted here too, people don't want to break 'the law'.

Getting rid of the 20k thing now makes more sense when there is little reason to travel (no hotels, pubs, restaurants open).

hi5

The logic is a bit baffling alright. The figures are counted on a national basis.
If I have the virus and I travel to spread it in a low infected area it means while there I'm not spreading it in the area I have come from.
No area has 100% infection or is 100% free.