Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Ginger n Lemon

end of the road wrote: »

because they started lockdown earlier.
and as already explained our roadmap has the ability to be speeded up built into it right from the start and is not set in stone.

Most countries started same time as us, 2 weeks earlier tops, WE ALL WENT INTO LOCKDOWN IN MARCH.

Lets be clear okay.

So why the hell do we NOT ALL COME OUT OF LOCKDOWN IN MAY/JUNE?

Why can you get a pint in a bar today in France, Spain, Portugal, Greece, Germany, Czech republic, Austria, Denmark Italy but not Ireland?

Today. Not 29th of June and definitely not bloody 10th of August. Forget this whole pubs can get restaurant licence crap, why the hell should they when most of Europe serves pints already?

Same goes for haircuts. Same goes for MANY MANY things. TODAY.

PS one thing not explained on our roadmap is what kind of figures we need for it to be "speeded up". What the hell is that all about?

Tenzor07

VonLuck wrote: »

The government had to draw the line somewhere and homeware happened to be outside that line.

It would be a dangerous game opening all shops on the one day.

You do realise how illogical it seemed to people that Home-Hard-ware drew a big distinction?
When a massive Homeware store such as Ikea can't open, unless it stocked some hammers and nails?
And closing all stores so everyone has to congregate albeit physically distanced in the carparks of retail parks all over the country.

What's a dangerous game is to concentrate people into 2km circles, especially in areas with a high density of population.
To close all cafe's, bars, restaurants so people congregate in the many 1000's of house parties which have taken place over the last 3 months and consuming excess booze which costs a fraction of the cost you'd pay in a pub.

JRant

Now it may be poorly worded / written but if I read that correctly it's stating the 3 people who died today had previously been diagnosed with COVID, i.e. they no longer had it when they passed.

"The Department of Health has announced that a further three people who had previously been diagnosed with Covid-19 have died."

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0603/1145247-coronavirus-ireland-figures/

Are we seriously going to keep this charade up until mid-August.

Idbatterim

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Most countries started same time as us, 2 weeks earlier tops, WE ALL WENT INTO LOCKDOWN IN MARCH.

Lets be clear okay.

So why the hell do we NOT ALL COME OUT OF LOCKDOWN IN MAY/JUNE?

Why can you get a pint in a bar today in France, Spain, Portugal, Greece, Germany, Czech republic, Austria, Denmark Italy but not Ireland?

Today. Not 29th of June and definitely not bloody 10th of August. Forget this whole pubs can get restaurant licence crap, why the hell should they when most of Europe serves pints already?

Same goes for haircuts. Same goes for MANY MANY things. TODAY.

PS one thing not explained on our roadmap is what kind of figures we need for it to be "speeded up". What the hell is that all about?

Its nonsensical, its lunacy, implemented by lunatics. You cant make sense of it. Just remember, that this government chose to hit the country with another recession. As if the last one wasnt bad enough!!!

mooseknunkle

whisky_galore wrote: »

Cork one still no signs of cancelling, their FB event page is naïve to say the least.

One on in Waterford too on Saturday but they are calling it a "Vigil" ,over 1000 people going to it so far according to their facebook page.

Ginger n Lemon

JRant wrote: »

Now it may be poorly worded / written but if I read that correctly it's stating the 3 people who died today had previously been diagnosed with COVID, i.e. they no longer had it when they passed.

"The Department of Health has announced that a further three people who had previously been diagnosed with Covid-19 have died."

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0603/1145247-coronavirus-ireland-figures/

Are we seriously going to keep this charade up until mid-August.

On average 85 people die per day in this country.

We are now damaging our GDP by 10 - 15% this year because of 0-3-5-6-7-1-9-1-3 people dying off covid per day.

Our children will be very sceptical of the proceedings from 2020.

VonLuck

CruelSummer wrote: »

Except it wouldn’t? They’d all be following the same guidelines. If people feel at risk, then they don’t have to go to the other shops that reopen?

Fewer shops open means fewer people out and about meaning fewer potential infections.

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

But why are most, actually all, of them countries doing it quicker than us?

As is us, Scotland are competing for slowest kid in the class award in entire Europe...

I don't know why you're asking me. I was just saying that they had to draw the line somewhere.

Tenzor07 wrote: »

You do realise how illogical it seemed to people that Home-Hard-ware drew a big distinction?
When a massive Homeware store such as Ikea can't open, unless it stocked some hammers and nails?
And closing all stores so everyone has to congregate albeit physically distanced in the carparks of retail parks all over the country.

What's a dangerous game is to concentrate people into 2km circles, especially in areas with a high density of population.
To close all cafe's, bars, restaurants so people congregate in the many 1000's of house parties which have taken place over the last 3 months and consuming excess booze which costs a fraction of the cost you'd pay in a pub.

There's no government restriction on the number of people entering a store. That's the management's decision in order to manage social distancing.

As for your second "point", that's just pure nonsense. There's no concentration of people in 2km circles. It's just the population that lives there. And the government did not say house parties were permitted so that's entirely on the heads of the individuals.

JRant

end of the road wrote: »

because they started lockdown earlier.
and as already explained our roadmap has the ability to be speeded up built into it right from the start and is not set in stone.

Where's the accelerator on the roadmap?

That roadmap may as well have been carried down Mount Sinai by a 100 year old bearded man.

VonLuck

JRant wrote: »

Now it may be poorly worded / written but if I read that correctly it's stating the 3 people who died today had previously been diagnosed with COVID, i.e. they no longer had it when they passed.

"The Department of Health has announced that a further three people who had previously been diagnosed with Covid-19 have died."

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0603/1145247-coronavirus-ireland-figures/

Are we seriously going to keep this charade up until mid-August.

Is there any more context? They may have died due to Covid related complications, but not had Covid-19 at the time e.g. lasting respiratory problems caused by the virus.

greensheep777

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Most countries started same time as us, 2 weeks earlier tops, WE ALL WENT INTO LOCKDOWN IN MARCH.

Lets be clear okay.

So why the hell do we NOT ALL COME OUT OF LOCKDOWN IN MAY/JUNE?

Why can you get a pint in a bar today in France, Spain, Portugal, Greece, Germany, Czech republic, Austria, Denmark Italy but not Ireland?

Today. Not 29th of June and definitely not bloody 10th of August. Forget this whole pubs can get restaurant licence crap, why the hell should they when most of Europe serves pints already?

Same goes for haircuts. Same goes for MANY MANY things. TODAY.

PS one thing not explained on our roadmap is what kind of figures we need for it to be "speeded up". What the hell is that all about?

This ****ing constant, neverending attitude of "well the UK are doing X so it's ok if we do it, or a slightly less terrible version of it". And ignoring all those EU countries that WE CHOSE to be in a UNION with.

Why did we bother leaving the UK if we're going to constantly be up their arses comparing our turds to theirs?

JRant

VonLuck wrote: »

Is there any more context? They may have died due to Covid related complications, but not had Covid-19 at the time e.g. lasting respiratory problems caused by the virus.

Unfortunately like many of the announcements we get it was lacking any sort of context. They may have been as you described or they it could have been someone with terminal cancer. We just don't know.

Tenzor07

VonLuck wrote: »

Fewer shops open means fewer people out and about meaning fewer potential infections.

There's no government restriction on the number of people entering a store. That's the management's decision in order to manage social distancing.

As for your second "point", that's just pure nonsense. There's no concentration of people in 2km circles. It's just the population that lives there. And the government did not say house parties were permitted so that's entirely on the heads of the individuals.

Fewer shops open means the few that are open have more people in them than normal... You can't go buy a new shirt at a clothes store but you can buy one at Tesco.
In an area such as the one i'm in where the population in a 2k circle is around 100k means more people at local shops.
For those in rural areas they had to break the 2k limit every time to get to the nearest open "essential" retail outlet.

The 2k limit confined people upon penalty of hefty fines/convictions, so those in highly populated areas large groups had house/street parties, their children mixed with the ones from many other households on the streets daily and due to the closure of schools. If people wanted to get outside for exercise they had to walk on narrow paths with dozens of others at the same time.

Whether you think it's pure nonsense or not and it being on the heads of those who attended non-socially distanced parties or not is irrelevant, it happened! And is happening.

Pete_Cavan

VonLuck wrote: »

Fewer shops open means fewer people out and about meaning fewer potential infections.

Fewer shops open means more people in those shops meaning greater potential infections.

Pete_Cavan

greensheep777 wrote: »

This ****ing constant, neverending attitude of "well the UK are doing X so it's ok if we do it, or a slightly less terrible version of it". And ignoring all those EU countries that WE CHOSE to be in a UNION with.

Why did we bother leaving the UK if we're going to constantly be up their arses comparing our turds to theirs?

Unless I am missing it, the post you quoted didn't mention the UK!

fleet_admiral

Naos wrote: »

I know you're in the trade, so when you say discussions, what type of discussions are we talking here?

Normal pubs potentially opening in July?

Yeah, July re: opening.

The main issue is social distancing and ventilation. Ventilation hasn't been maintained to a proper standard by the vast majority of pubs since the smoking ban was introduced because it was seen as not being needed.
The issue being looked at is using ventilation as a way of sucking air out instead of recycling it inside (what happens now in 99.9% of trades).
Massive pressure is being applied to have 1 metre distance instead of 2, pubs were built with closeness in mind

VonLuck

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Fewer shops open means more people in those shops meaning greater potential infections.

Not at all. Shops are employing social distancing restrictions limiting the number inside. It's when multiple shops are open in close proximity that you get a problem. Have you ever seen Grafton Street on a normal day? Swarms of people. Social distancing would be very difficult to enforce on a street and is outside of the control of individual shop owners.

TaurenDruid

JRant wrote: »

Now it may be poorly worded / written but if I read that correctly it's stating the 3 people who died today had previously been diagnosed with COVID, i.e. they no longer had it when they passed.

"The Department of Health has announced that a further three people who had previously been diagnosed with Covid-19 have died."

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0603/1145247-coronavirus-ireland-figures/

Are we seriously going to keep this charade up until mid-August.

Your grammar is faulty and/or yes, it's poorly worded. The covid-related death reports report just that, the number of people who have died from covid. Not people who died, who had covid some time in the past but were recovered when they died.

Tenzor07

VonLuck wrote: »

Not at all. Shops are employing social distancing restrictions limiting the number inside. It's when multiple shops are open in close proximity that you get a problem. Have you ever seen Grafton Street on a normal day? Swarms of people. Social distancing would be very difficult to enforce on a street and is outside of the control of individual shop owners.

Yea, that made sense back in late April and early March when the R0 and number of daily infections was high before social distancing came in.

Once social distancing was introduced and the public aware of good hygiene/facemasks/distancing, and with the flattening of the curve over the last 4 to 6 weeks it makes no sense to keep stores closed.
Rent and servicing costs still have to be paid. Stock needs to be sold.
All retail should have been opened weeks ago.

MickeyLeari

JRant wrote: »

Now it may be poorly worded / written but if I read that correctly it's stating the 3 people who died today had previously been diagnosed with COVID, i.e. they no longer had it when they passed.

"The Department of Health has announced that a further three people who had previously been diagnosed with Covid-19 have died."

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0603/1145247-coronavirus-ireland-figures/

Are we seriously going to keep this charade up until mid-August.

What does this mean? It sounds like a very deliberate use of language.

Say someone was diagnosed with Covid-19 - no symptoms - but died in a car crash, would he/she be counted?

VonLuck

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

On average 85 people die per day in this country.

We are now damaging our GDP by 10 - 15% this year because of 0-3-5-6-7-1-9-1-3 people dying off covid per day.

Our children will be very sceptical of the proceedings from 2020.

What is your argument here? If the deaths were higher then it would be more justified?

JRant

TaurenDruid wrote: »

Your grammar is faulty and/or yes, it's poorly worded. The covid-related death reports report just that, the number of people who have died from covid. Not people who died, who had covid some time in the past but were recovered when they died.

My grammar?
I didn't write the article.

JRant

MickeyLeari wrote: »

What does this mean? It sounds like a very deliberate use of language.

Say someone was diagnosed with Covid-19 - no symptoms - but died in a car crash, would he/she be counted?

I'm not sure being honest.

Ginger n Lemon

VonLuck wrote: »

What is your argument here? If the deaths were higher then it would be more justified?

My argument is that destroying 15% of GDP because of 20 odd weekly covid deaths is apesh*t crazy when total weekly deaths are around 600.

On grand scale of things we currently shut down 99% of our hospitality businesses because of few deaths per day from cancer and other underlying conditions that caught covid in a hospital or nursing home setting.

Why do u think most of European countries have already opened 80% - 95% of all of their businesses?

Today. As of today. Not as of 29th June or 10 Aug.....

Benimar

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

My argument is that destroying 15% of GDP because of 20 odd weekly covid deaths is apesh*t crazy when total weekly deaths are around 600.

On grand scale of things we currently shut down 99% of our hospitality businesses because of few deaths per day from cancer and other underlying conditions that caught covid in a hospital or nursing home setting.

Why do u think most of European countries have already opened 80% - 95% of all of their businesses?

Today. As of today. Not as of 29th June or 10 Aug.....

Of course the massive flaw in your position is that without closing the country down, deaths wouldn’t be ‘20 odd weekly’ as you put it. They would’ve been of a magnitude higher.

stephenjmcd

Just mentioned on the tonight show that Leo wrote to the FG party tonight and in it he says he is concerned that many are calling for the speeding up of restrictions and he thinks it's better to adopt the slow and steady approach.

Last week it was he wanted to speed up the reopening as well. Hard to tell where he stands each week and I would have voted FG prevously.

Martin Heyden from FG on and is saying they hope to speed things up if everything keeps going the way its going

VonLuck

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

My argument is that destroying 15% of GDP because of 20 odd weekly covid deaths is apesh*t crazy when total weekly deaths are around 600.

You do realise that's why the death rates are so low, right? Because of the restrictions?

It's like pumping money into policing and as a result the crime rate drops. "What a waste of money, there's barely any crime!".

RGARDINR

Have been reading this thread every day at different points. Really in your heart of hearts if you had to say if they will end the restrictions early when would you hazard a guess or will they do you honestly reckon just keep it till the end. I see loads of posts saying this is got to end now but we all know that won't happen. So if you had to put your money on it when would you think it will? Brought forward a few weeks or they listen to people and we wake up tomorrow and hey presto pubs etc. Back open. Or just goes the way of the steps the government have given us time line wise? We all know how slow the wheels turn in Ireland.

Micky 32

Going by Ross’s comments in the dail I’d say the 14 day quarantine will Without doubt be extended. “It’s not possible to say when the “mandatory” 14 day isolation for travellers into Ireland will end” It’s all up to the NPHET.

Ross claims it will be 2023 before he sees returning to pre-Covid levels . He claims He can’t see it next year going back to business as usual.

I wonder are they planning to keep the quarantine beyond next year. Interestingly how he calls it the “mandatory “ quarantine.

Idbatterim

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

My argument is that destroying 15% of GDP because of 20 odd weekly covid deaths is apesh*t crazy when total weekly deaths are around 600.

On grand scale of things we currently shut down 99% of our hospitality businesses because of few deaths per day from cancer and other underlying conditions that caught covid in a hospital or nursing home setting.

Why do u think most of European countries have already opened 80% - 95% of all of their businesses?

Today. As of today. Not as of 29th June or 10 Aug.....

Why do u think most of European countries have already opened 80% - 95% of all of their businesses?

I am going to say, they don't have inept morons in charge, am I right?

Lads all of the lockdown merchants, I am moving past the frustration stage and getting ready for the point in a few months, that the financial implications come crashing down on these fools and they realise, oh maybe the corona virus wasn't the only thing that mattered!

Save your cash now, the crash is coming! Ill be back here to gloat, hopefully with many of you, when the bill arrives...

stephenjmcd

Micky 32 wrote: »

Going by Ross’s comments in the dail I’d say the 14 day quarantine will Without doubt be extended. “It’s not possible to say when the “mandatory” 14 day isolation for travellers into Ireland will end” It’s all up to the NPHET.

Ross claims it will be 2023 before he sees returning to pre-Covid levels . He claims it won’t be next year going back to business as usual, will no longer be the case.

I wonder are they planning to keep the quarantine beyond next year. Interestingly how he calls it the “mandatory “ quarantine.

As always I take anything Shane Ross says with a truck load of salt. He's not even a TD anymore so it'll be feck all to do with him.

It'll take a good while to get levels back to 2019, 2-3 years seems to be the timescale being mentioned in aviation.

The fact that he calls it mandatory is all you need to know, whatever about the pressure now but come July when most of Europe is back moving and we aren't then there's going to be serious pressure from airlines and the whole tourism industry on either the current government or a new one. We can't be one of the only countries in the EU implementing these measures and the others lifting them.

The comment about it's up to NPHET says it all in terms of who calls the shots.