Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Cork Boy 53

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I was very critical of 5 month lockdown plans and made my feelings known.

Now that its going to be 3.5 months I think, yeah, govt are improving.

Is there a lot of room to improve still? Absolutely. But if Leo comes out tomorrow and announces 1m social distancing for 29 June and all hairdressers re opening 29th of June I wont be posting here "Leo is terrible" if thats where you are going.

13th March to 20th July is about 4.25 months actually.

average_runner

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I was very critical of 5 month lockdown plans and made my feelings known.

Now that its going to be 3.5 months I think, yeah, govt are improving.

Is there a lot of room to improve still? Absolutely. But if Leo comes out tomorrow and announces 1m social distancing for 29 June and all hairdressers re opening 29th of June I wont be posting here "Leo is terrible" if thats where you are going.

Leo played it smart, he let others take the gamble and we would learn from their mistakes and learning's.


We learnt from others with their lockdowns and we got on it quickly unlike other countries.

Allinall

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Great article -

The Covid-19 crisis could "morph into a banking crisis" if the State doesn't do more to help small firms cope with inter-company debts averaging €78,000, Isme has warned.

The lobbying group for more than 10,000 small and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs) said most State supports to date were merely loading already crushed firms with extra layers of debt.

"Without viable businesses, it will not be possible to re- ignite the economy. In this case, Ireland's debt levels would frighten the markets. Economic recovery as quickly as possible is essential."

https://www.independent.ie/business/small-business/small-firms-need-bigger-grants-to-avoid-banking-crisis-isme-39273985.html

The point about debt burden is a real one. Small companies arent getting a free ride here, they are required to take on more debt to stay alive. With 78k average debts, should businesses decide to close down, banks will be in huge trouble.

Inter-company debt is not bank debt.

Cork Boy 53

finalfurlong wrote: »

He was finance reporter for bailout and heath one for pandemic.If they make him space correspondent we would get hit by meteorites.Time for his fear/alarmist approach to be neutered by RTE.His performance on Friday during the new measures being announced was meltdown stuff.

I recall him presenting an RTE documentary back in 2006 when the credit/property bubble was at its height in which he predicted that the "boom" was all built on a house of cards and would come to an end very soon. I remember he was castigated by many then as being alarmist, a doom monger etc. Well we all know what happened within the following 18 months.

GeorgeBailey

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

I recall him presenting an RTE documentary back in 2006 when the credit/property bubble was at its height in which he predicted that the "boom" was all built on a house of cards and would come to an end very soon. I remember he was castigated by many then as being alarmist, a doom monger etc. Well we all know what happened within the following 18 months.

Agreed. The dismissal of health experts (ok George isn't really one of those but it's not just him being dismissed) is very reminiscent of the dismissal of finance experts before the crash. We don't want to believe what they're saying so they're dismissed as cranks and doom-merchants.

paw patrol

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

All of those anti vaxxers working in HSE, how dare they

TAOISEACH Leo Varadkar has warned that the low up-take of the flu vaccine among health workers saying it's "not on" and "has to change".

It comes amid fears that there could be a second wave of coronavirus outbreaks during the winter flu season.

Mr Varadkar said that such a scenario would be "very difficult" and the government is stepping up the annual flu vaccine programme as a result including expanding free vaccination for children.

But he added: "Less than half of them got the flu vaccine last year. That’s not on. That has to change."

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/its-not-on-varadkar-warns-low-up-take-of-flu-vaccine-among-health-workers-has-to-change-39275121.html

Is anyone naive enough to think this up and coming untested and unproven covid vaccine will be rolled out and healthcare workers will "get it"? cuckoo land

PS Leo is great for PR. media soundbites :rolleyes:

flu vaccine is a joke.
They guess the 3 strains they think it'll be . then lash out the flu vaccine.
It's hit and miss at best but sold as something worth taking which it's not really.

Leo is talking through his hole here. Looks like the HSE staff know the score.

Why take the flu vaccine, you may ask? Why indeed.

MickeyLeari

average_runner wrote: »

We know the spread has slowed down as the positive test rate is lower percentage wise.

We are only testing 20,000 a week as less people have come forward . You forgot that part

Presumably because less people have symptoms or are contacted to get tested. Sure we should test 100000 a week and get the positive rate even lower.

growleaves

GeorgeBailey wrote: »

Agreed. The dismissal of health experts (ok George isn't really one of those but it's not just him being dismissed) is very reminiscent of the dismissal of finance experts before the crash. We don't want to believe what they're saying so they're dismissed as cranks and doom-merchants.

But other health experts had to be dismissed in order to arrive at our current stance (wrongly referred to as a 'consensus' by some). RTE's exclusion of other points of view doesn't mean they aren't out there.

George Lee's background is in Economics, he studied it and reported on it for many years.

CruelSummer

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

I recall him presenting an RTE documentary back in 2006 when the credit/property bubble was at its height in which he predicted that the "boom" was all built on a house of cards and would come to an end very soon. I remember he was castigated by many then as being alarmist, a doom monger etc. Well we all know what happened within the following 18 months.

I think George plays to the gallery and flip flops when suits.
I will never forget an interview with George Lee in 2007 on Morning Ireland, Radio 1...he stated that Ireland was in for a soft landing from it's property price peak, there would be no property crash here, all the signals and parameters for a soft landing were there for us all to see...safe to say that's the day I lost my respect for him as it was blatantly obvious what was coming.

Ginger n Lemon

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

13th March to 20th July is about 4.25 months actually.

I am actually thinking most of restrictions will be lifted by 29th of June, with very few places waiting to 20th July. hence 3.5 months.

barbers, gyms, cinemas will easily open 29th of June.

especially when whole of Dublin had 1 new case over last 24 hours.

MickeyLeari

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

I recall him presenting an RTE documentary back in 2006 when the credit/property bubble was at its height in which he predicted that the "boom" was all built on a house of cards and would come to an end very soon. I remember he was castigated by many then as being alarmist, a doom monger etc. Well we all know what happened within the following 18 months.

What are you saying? That George Lee of RTÉ is a clairvoyant?

growleaves

Drive-in cinema to open in Dublin this week

https://www.rte.ie/amp/1146440/

average_runner

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

I recall him presenting an RTE documentary back in 2006 when the credit/property bubble was at its height in which he predicted that the "boom" was all built on a house of cards and would come to an end very soon. I remember he was castigated by many then as being alarmist, a doom monger etc. Well we all know what happened within the following 18 months.

He is an idiot. The whole country knew it was built on cards as just look at the UK in the 90's.


He then got move to talking agriculture and got kicked out.
Then onto reporting weather, where he has cause more harm than good with false updates.


He doesn't look at the facts or talk to the experts anymore

JDD

I've never understood how a drive in cinema can work for a family, with a load of kids in the back of the car. How are they able to see the screen? Grand if it's just the two of you in the front.

is_that_so

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

You do know that we test less than 20,000 people per week right?

In May it was 40,000.

So has spread slowed down or we just test less, or both?

You can only say spread has slowed down if you test entire nation every week and see reduction in number of positive tests.......

If noone gets tested this week for covid you do realize new cases = 0? That doesnt mean the spread has slowed down or covid has gone away

This would nicely dovetail into an outraged post decrying the waste of resources on testing the nation every week!
The demand for testing is not there now. If you're inclined towards seeing the virus under every rock, we're not testing enough. Most people would see it as an actual decline.

CruelSummer

On a separate note, am taking a break from posting on these threads for the time being. I cannot thank some of the posters on this thread enough for their support, banter and view sharing on the various questions around lockdown and restrictions.

I'm delighted Leo and Fine Gael have woken up and begun to reopen at a more realistic rate, hopefully the next month will tell the tale as to whether we'll have an increase in cases as a result. I personally don't think this is going to happen, as there's already been a month of looser restrictions since May and cases here and across Europe are steadily in decline. Thank goodness and long may it continue.
The economic fallout will be colossal, and we need a government to be able to act quickly and adapt to conditions to help businesses survive.

I'll pop back in again at some stage but in the meantime, hope you all stay healthy and happy :-)

Ginger n Lemon

is_that_so wrote: »

This would nicely dovetail into an outraged post decrying the waste of resources on testing the nation every week!
The demand for testing is not there now. If you're inclined towards seeing the virus under every rock, we're not testing enough. Most people would see it as an actual decline.

I see it as an actual decline too but not because we test 2 times less and have less and less new cases, but because I look at most (all?) of Europe and see barely any 2nd wave re emergence or spikes in new cases.

And tbh with all the mass protests going on as well and we dont see any spikes, yeah you could say I definitely see a decline here as well.

growleaves

JDD wrote: »

I've never understood how a drive in cinema can work for a family, with a load of kids in the back of the car. How are they able to see the screen? Grand if it's just the two of you in the front.

In Australia we used pull out deck chairs and blankets and sit around. Only works if there aren't too many cars blocking the view.

is_that_so

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

I recall him presenting an RTE documentary back in 2006 when the credit/property bubble was at its height in which he predicted that the "boom" was all built on a house of cards and would come to an end very soon. I remember he was castigated by many then as being alarmist, a doom monger etc. Well we all know what happened within the following 18 months.

Here he is just an alarmist, driven I suspect by his own discomfort with the disease. Most of what might happen has been acknowledged in a need for future plans. For a man of numbers he has had a hell of a time with the daily case numbers, although he was not alone in that.

Cork Boy 53

MickeyLeari wrote: »

What are you saying? That George Lee of RTÉ is a clairvoyant?

No I`m not saying that at all but I don`t think he is an alarmist doom monger as many seem to believe.

Goldengirl

paw patrol wrote: »

it's funny alright , the absolute terror people have cos the man on the telly told them.
do these "high risk" people not realise they are "high risk" from almost everything...but these special case has them in terror . odd.

Although old people aren't the worst, the worst are the mammy types - the "karen" types to use the internet vernacular.
They eyeball you with both fear and contempt behind their masks for the crime of wanting to shop at the same time as them

These elderly you make fun of for being afraid of a virus that is capable of wiping their generation out, are high risk with underlying conditions, because , guess what , that's what happens as you get older ! However most of the current illnesses have treatments which ensure they can usually live a normal enough life .
They are right to be cautious . Probably look in terror because they see some people not keeping their distance .

Indeed it looks like Leo is finally starting to see sense. Perhaps it was the huge deficit in May that helped to bring him around.
Looking like we'll be more or less fully reopen in mid July now.
Wish it was faster but its certainly much better than before.

There won't be a "new normal". Businesses might be forced to put a few actions in place for the optics of it all.
Most of those will fall away by the end of summer.

The only new normal will be adapting to high unemployment and recession after several years of strong economy.

Jackman25

storker wrote: »

I think it ties in quite well, considering some people around here think the elderly and vulnerable are "well beyond their economic use".

Link to any poster other than the swiftly banned troll who posted that who thinks this please?

Or maybe just cop on to yourself and stop trying to smear people that don't agree with you.

Disgusting but unsurprising post from you.

Ginger n Lemon

Gerry Fauci :rolleyes:

Coronavirus: ‘Worst nightmare’ pandemic far from over, says Fauci

The US’s top infectious disease expert Dr Anthony Fauci warned on Tuesday that the coronavirus pandemic was far from over, calling Covid-19 his “worst nightmare”.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/us/coronavirus-worst-nightmare-pandemic-far-from-over-says-fauci-1.4275428?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fworld%2Fus%2Fcoronavirus-worst-nightmare-pandemic-far-from-over-says-fauci-1.4275428

This man is morphing into Tony cause for concern Killeen.

Ireland has 9 new cases yesterday but apparently covid is just beginning, time to lock up our children. No wonder Irish people are so scared with IT pushing this nonsense as one of top headlines

PS this constant nonsense of "millions of cases"

There are more closed cases of covid than live..

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

3,312,095
Currently Infected Patients

4,043,924
Cases which had an outcome

This constant fear mongering is just unreal.

Micky 32

Goldengirl wrote: »

These elderly you make fun of for being afraid of a virus that is capable of wiping their generation out, are high risk with underlying conditions, because , guess what , that's what happens as you get older ! However most of the current illnesses have treatments which ensure they can usually live a normal enough life .
They are right to be cautious . Probably look in terror because they see some people not keeping their distance .

My parents are in their 70’s with heart conditions and on treatments that give them a normal life and possible for another 10 years. If they got the virus that could change in an instant. I can understand being cautious. Even i am being cautious afraid of catching it in fear of giving it to them.

Jackman25

pjohnson wrote: »

That would involve basic decency, a trait many of the selfish economy/mental health advocates here are lacking. Theres some who would probably find coughing in the face of the elderly "funny" plus the Gardai had to use "spit hoods" for some of the llama's about.

People that want to open up the economy and relax restrictions would also find coughing in the face of the elderly funny or enjoy spitting at the Gardai?

Gotta be the dumbest post on the site in quite a well. Take a virtual bow.

Cork Boy 53

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Gerry Fauci :rolleyes:

Coronavirus: ‘Worst nightmare’ pandemic far from over, says Fauci

The US’s top infectious disease expert Dr Anthony Fauci warned on Tuesday that the coronavirus pandemic was far from over, calling Covid-19 his “worst nightmare”.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/us/coronavirus-worst-nightmare-pandemic-far-from-over-says-fauci-1.4275428?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fworld%2Fus%2Fcoronavirus-worst-nightmare-pandemic-far-from-over-says-fauci-1.4275428

This man is morphing into Tony cause for concern Killeen.

Ireland has 9 new cases yesterday but apparently covid is just beginning, time to lock up our children. No wonder Irish people are so scared with IT pushing this nonsense as one of top headlines

PS this constant nonsense of "millions of cases"

There are more closed cases of covid than live..

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

3,312,095
Currently Infected Patients

4,043,924
Cases which had an outcome

This constant fear mongering is just unreal.

It`s just a shame that Trump didn`t take notice of what Fauci and most other competent US health officials were warning before the beginning of the outbreak in the USA instead of the shameful response of initially dismissing the virus as fake news scaremongering etc. before reality hit him. Granted Trump isn't the sharpest tool in the box but even he must be asking himself how many hundreds of thousands of American lives could have been saved if he had acted earlier?

Goldengirl

Micky 32 wrote: »

My parents are in their 70’s with heart conditions and on treatments that give them a normal life and possible for another 10 years. If they got the virus that could change in an instant. I can understand being cautious. Even i am being cautious afraid of catching it in fear of giving it to them.

Exactly.
A lot of people have underlying conditions from a young age that increase in severity as they get older but are treatable and manageable.
This virus kills people who could have lived another 10 to 20 years , with no treatment as yet.
I have seen people very ill with it who are in their 40 s and 50s and that is not scaremongering. Not so many dying but a lot ending up worse off due to strokes, clots and renal failure. These are people who have dependant families .
So the only way to keep it down is to prevent a community rise again and to keep our distance.
Happy to see things opening up but the 2 m distance is important , for the moment .

Cork Boy 53

average_runner wrote: »

He is an idiot. The whole country knew it was built on cards as just look at the UK in the 90's.


He then got move to talking agriculture and got kicked out.
Then onto reporting weather, where he has cause more harm than good with false updates.


He doesn't look at the facts or talk to the experts anymore

Many people didn`t believe that at all and dismissed those that did as being scaremongerers, doom merchants etc, etc.

Ginger n Lemon

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

It`s just a shame that Trump didn`t take notice of what Fauci and most other competent US health officials were warning before the beginning of the outbreak in the USA instead of the shameful response of initially dismissing the virus as fake news scaremongering etc. before reality hit him. Granted Trump isn't the sharpest tool in the box but even he must be asking himself how many hundreds of thousands of American lives could have been saved if he had acted earlier?

As much as you, me and probably every average Joe dislike Trump he did ban travel from China as early as January. When WHO was telling him that it isnt advisable.

Its a bit like saying how many of those 1,600 dead we wouldve saved if we closed our borders? I believe planes from China and Northern Italy kept landing in Dublin Airport in March, April. So, yeah, not good.