Cycling on paths and other cycling issues (updated title)

magicbastarder

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

It was I that pointed that out. I'm well aware of the issues, I'm asking what logical and realistic solutions people have.

that cycle lane would actually be a decent one were it not for the flaws discussed.
the big issue with ireland (and i guess with other countries) is how to handle junctions (i mean proper ones, not ones at cark park exits).
one issue with a lot of cycle paths is that they're provided where it's easy to do so, but retrofitted onto existing infrastructure - the 'if we paint a white line here and some bicycle symbols, job done' approach, and where they then interact with junctions.
the example i gave earlier in the thread is a well known one:

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3034396,-6.2085298,3a,75y,163.03h,71.06t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shyHSzfFZNb4icsHyaim30Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

drop the cyclists from an off-road path into a lane, on the inside of left turning traffic - even if the cyclists are proceeding straight on, as the vast majority probably will be. the cyclists have even been briefly hidden from the motorists view behind a bus shelter, and one of the issues with those offroad paths is that they remove the cyclists from motorist's mental radar, leading to the 'he came out of nowhere!' effect.

what could be done to improve that? superficially, i guess having the merge of the cycle lane and the road further back, before the 'left only' option begins for motorists, so both cyclists and motorists have greater time to assess what the traffic around them is doing. maybe a 5 second head start 'bicycles only' green light might help, it would certainly be a useful visual clue for motorists to pay heed to the possible presence of cyclists.

the junction at the bus depot is as bad, coupled with the cyclists and peds being forced to share a path probably not much more than 1m wide (at a point where there are 7 lanes for motorised traffic beside them!)
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3187858,-6.2315027,3a,75y,191.68h,81.54t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxxoogdJqcA2n2P1HAkQJFg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

there has been at least one cyclist fatality roughly halfway between those two examples, that i can remember. i'm not aware of what the cause of that was though.

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

A good start would be for Gardai to start enforcing traffic laws, so the pavement parking shown earlier doesn't happen as a matter of routine.

Every single one of them could have gotten a ticket. How do you know they didn't?

Second, how of the relevant to your beef with cycle lanes?

I won't quote large quotes.

Bastsrder, how can we long term this? Even there you are only able to offer a cursory paper over the cracks.

The simple reality is as you say, it's being imposed over a standing system.

In regards entrances, the only way to deal with that is dedicated cycle lanes separated from the road. Doable in some places but not all until such a time comes that the entire stretch of road is being redone.

As for me, the less time I have to share the road, the better so what a Lane exists, I will continue to use it. There's only one Victor between niner and a car

Hurrache

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

.

In regards entrances, the only way to deal with that is dedicated cycle lanes separated from the road.

But that's not true at all. You simply have cycle lanes either on or alongside the road and you just don't paint yield signs on the cycle lane at every entrance. The best thing to do is take them off what are basically footpaths altogether to remove that conflict with traffic coming from side roads, drives, etc.

meeeeh

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

A good start would be for Gardai to start enforcing traffic laws, so the pavement parking shown earlier doesn't happen as a matter of routine.

A traffic warden can deal with that. All you need is a tow truck, they can pickup the illegally parked cars or those without parking ticket and deposit them to depot. You can get them back after paying a fine.

I must say I don't get the reluctance in Ireland to deal with this. I also don't get the enthusiasm for on street parking. I know some think a cycle lane down the Keys is great achievement but my question would be why is there that much car traffic and why is on street parking allowed on the streets in the area.

07Lapierre

A real bike lane:

https://twitter.com/fitzrik/status/1279410831067951104?s=21

Crazy to expect pedestrians to stick to that narrow, uneven surface. Can't complain if joggers, parents with small kids, old people, anyone, feel its safer/less of a faff to use the cycle lane.

What?

07Lapierre

ecoli3136 wrote: »

Crazy to expect pedestrians to stick to that narrow, uneven surface. Can't complain if joggers, parents with small kids, old people, anyone, feel its safer/less of a faff to use the cycle lane.

What?

Stuff’em! Peds don’t pay road tax! I’ll ride over them!

07Lapierre

07Lapierre wrote: »

Stuff’em! Peds don’t pay road tax! I’ll ride over them!

I don't see what the problem is.

Cyclists could be given a full refund of theirs.

And pedestrians causing injury to cyclists is incredibly rare.

07Lapierre

ecoli3136 wrote: »

I don't see what the problem is.

And pedestrians causing injury to cyclists is incredibly rare.

Agreed no problem! Just ride over the lawbreaking scum!

Stark

ecoli3136 wrote: »

Crazy to expect pedestrians to stick to that narrow, uneven surface. Can't complain if joggers, parents with small kids, old people, anyone, feel its safer/less of a faff to use the cycle lane.

What?

Don't worry they will. Just like in the Phoenix park they decided the cycle lanes were nicer so used them instead of the footpath.

magicbastarder

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Bastsrder, how can we long term this? Even there you are only able to offer a cursory paper over the cracks.

The simple reality is as you say, it's being imposed over a standing system.

oh, agreed, but i don't expect a wholescale reorientation of the way irish roads are designed, to happen overnight. (see below where i pretty much contradict myself)
around where i live they've been relaying footpaths a-go-go, but relaying them exactly as they were in their original 1950s and 1960s configuration. and there will be very little appetite to spend money on any reconfiguration now that they've probably spent hundreds of thousands on works they may have to dig up to achieve iny change

as mentioned above, irish people are conditioned to expect to be able to drive anywhere, and expect to park their car there, and that's one of the big problems, we're giving over large percentages of streetscapes for the simple and unproductive matter of car storage.

in the context of the quays as mentioned, the covid crisis gave the council breathing space to basically abolish the on street parking along much of them. it may have taken a global pandemic to create the clout to do remove this, but the cost is really minimal - along the front of the four courts, there was maybe 25 spaces which were dead weight; cyclists were squeezed into a space maybe a metre and a half wide, one they were expected to share with buses and bus stops, while the other side of the road, 25 cars sat there doing nothing, providing no utility while parked. and that's probably the low hanging fruit, as proven by how quickly the council were able to move on it.

Stark

I noticed on Wolfe Tone quay, they've managed to provide a lovely two lane segregated cycle route while motorists haven't lost any space at all. They repurposed what was just hatched markings dead space into cycle lane. Actually made things more pleasant the one time I had to drive that way as there's no space for bully motorists to overtake people and cut back into traffic now. Actually in general, driving in Dublin is more pleasant when there's only one lane for traffic as opposed to having two lanes and everyone cutting in at junctions when the lanes necessarily merge.

This **** for example serves no purpose other than to induce road rage https://goo.gl/maps/jFDMmUMkiMQiTAUVA . Remove the second lane earlier and put it to better use.

magicbastarder

is that at the eastern end of wolfe tone quay? i've not been on it in a while, but this is what i remember it looking like, except for the approach to the bridge:

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3471321,-6.2884959,3a,75y,80.66h,68.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAKt164aFgUU0WxwN-CDhPw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Stark

Yeah that's the one. The middle lane eventually merged with the left lane https://goo.gl/maps/CkySFZvzs52VVLVL9 so really provided no purpose other than encouraging motorists to race each other.

Everything's moved one lane to the right now and what was the bus lane/crappy painted cycle lane (which was useless as the lane was too narrow for both buses and cyclists) is now a nice segregated "dual carriageway" cycle lane. And it's more pleasant to drive now without everyone trying to get ahead of each other before the hatched bit so win for everyone.

Stark

Stark wrote: »

Don't worry they will. Just like in the Phoenix park they decided the cycle lanes were nicer so used them instead of the footpath.

You're dead right.

That cycle path is EXACTLY like the one in the park and will soon be RUINED.

The struggle continues.

Hurrache

07Lapierre wrote: »

Stuff’em! Peds don’t pay road tax! I’ll ride over them!

Don't forget, really rise them by riding over them, doing a wheelie. With stunt pegs.

07Lapierre

Hurrache wrote: »

Don't forget, really rise them by riding over them, doing a wheelie. With stunt pegs.

As kids we used to build ramps with pieces of wood and bricked. We’d get kids to lie down and we’d jump over them on our bikes. The fat unpopular kid was always put furthest from the ramp!

Hurrache

That really brought a smile to my face, it must have been a universal thing for kids from the 80s, a right of passage!

07Lapierre

Hurrache wrote: »

That really brought a smile to my face, it must have been a universal thing for kids from the 80s, a right of passage!

In my case it was the 70’s!

ewc78

07Lapierre wrote: »

A real bike lane:

https://twitter.com/fitzrik/status/1279410831067951104?s=21

Looks like a nice surface for running on..

AndrewJRenko

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Every single one of them could have gotten a ticket. How do you know they didn't?

Because there were no tickets on windscreens. Because they are there every time I come past, obviously residents' cars mostly, with loads of space on their driveways, but they take public space because it's slightly more convenient.

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Second, how of the relevant to your beef with cycle lanes?

Because some of them are parked on bike lanes.

meeeeh wrote: »

A traffic warden can deal with that. All you need is a tow truck, they can pickup the illegally parked cars or those without parking ticket and deposit them to depot. You can get them back after paying a fine.

I must say I don't get the reluctance in Ireland to deal with this. I also don't get the enthusiasm for on street parking. I know some think a cycle lane down the Keys is great achievement but my question would be why is there that much car traffic and why is on street parking allowed on the streets in the area.

A traffic warden would be great. Previously, DLR had a policy of not sending wardens to places like this, only to places with paid parking. It looks like that policy may be changing, so there may be some hope of changes in this area;
https://twitter.com/dlrcycling/status/1278453600390430720

Fully agree with you about the extent of on-street parking (or storage of private property on public space).

ecoli3136 wrote: »

I don't see what the problem is.

Cyclists could be given a full refund of theirs.

Motorists should definitely get a full refund of any road tax they have paid too.

ecoli3136 wrote: »

And pedestrians causing injury to cyclists is incredibly rare.

Though it does happen

Stark wrote: »

Don't worry they will. Just like in the Phoenix park they decided the cycle lanes were nicer so used them instead of the footpath.

with tragic consequences.
http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/cyclist-killed-phoenix-park/

Andrew, when the person you're addressing stops responding it doesn't mean they agree with you. It means you're left talking to yourself. Good luck.

AndrewJRenko

ecoli3136 wrote: »

Andrew, when the person you're addressing stops responding it doesn't mean they agree with you. It means you're left talking to yourself. Good luck.

Agreement would be very unusual. I agree with you about that.

Not quite so sure about the second part though. In my experience, it is more often down to people finding themselves facing a wall of factual evidence that they have no answer for.

Thanks for the good wishes.

TallGlass2

The way the cycle lane interacts with the bus gate is a bit of a dodge situation. It catapults you into the traffic from the left, while drivers are looking for buses/bikes on the left of their cars. It's just not great interaction at that bus gate.

Spook_ie

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Because there were no tickets on windscreens. Because they are there every time I come past, obviously residents' cars mostly, with loads of space on their driveways, but they take public space because it's slightly more convenient.


Because some of them are parked on bike lanes.



A traffic warden would be great. Previously, DLR had a policy of not sending wardens to places like this, only to places with paid parking. It looks like that policy may be changing, so there may be some hope of changes in this area;
https://twitter.com/dlrcycling/status/1278453600390430720

Fully agree with you about the extent of on-street parking (or storage of private property on public space).



Motorists should definitely get a full refund of any road tax they have paid too.

Though it does happen

: Stark
Don't worry they will. Just like in the Phoenix park they decided the cycle lanes were nicer so used them instead of the footpath.

with tragic consequences.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/coroner-s-court/changes-urged-to-phoenix-park-junction-where-cyclist-killed-1.3639658

Could I suggest you read the articles you link to, it might make more sense if you realised it was an inquest report about a cyclist and car

monument

Hurrache wrote: »

You're a clown. You have to be, I mean why else would you be displaying a spectacular failure to grasp a very very simple bit of logic.

Hurrache wrote: »

Cool, can I book myself in with you for a counselling session?

Change your posting style or don’t bother posting again — you’re going to stop the name calling and digs at people regardless of what you think of their views.

— moderator

monument

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Agreement would be very unusual. I agree with you about that.

Not quite so sure about the second part though. In my experience, it is more often down to people finding themselves facing a wall of factual evidence that they have no answer for.

Thanks for the good wishes.

ecoli3136 wrote: »

Andrew, when the person you're addressing stops responding it doesn't mean they agree with you. It means you're left talking to yourself. Good luck.

These kind of messages need to stop. If you want to tell each other you’re not responding to each other or good luck etc, please take it to private messages.

— moderator

AndrewJRenko

Spook_ie wrote: »

[/B]

Could I suggest you read the articles you link to, it might make more sense if you realised it was an inquest report about a cyclist and car

Apologies, wrong article indeed. It was this case I was referring to.
http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/cyclist-killed-phoenix-park/

magicbastarder

meeeeh wrote: »

A traffic warden can deal with that.

problem is, as mentioned, in ireland, being able to park your car on the street is seen as a right. an example this has been reported several times by several people AFAIK - there is a car or cars parked *permanently* and completely on the footpath, and beside the anchor pole for that sign, and nothing is ever done.
there's an underground car park in that apartment block. motorists complain if there's a clampdown on parking. retailers complain if there's a clampdown on parking. and the local authorities just give up because it's not worth the hassle.