Golf Lockdown Discussion ** No discussion of breaking Restrictions **

ClutchIt

Martin quote from the Examiner:
Martin added: “In terms of the sports situation, it still applies in relation to elite sports and coming up to April 5 we would then look at what more we can do in relation to some sports and outdoor activities more generally. We will wait until the week before April 5 to take an assessment on that.”

ClutchIt

So case numbers under control = Golf on Apr 5th

padmcv

ClutchIt wrote: »

So case numbers under control = Golf on Apr 5th

I think this is the intention but what is the definition of "under control"?
"Data not dates" seems to be the new line - I would love to know how anyone could make a data driven decision where the measure is "low levels".

ForeRight

padmcv wrote: »

I think this is the intention but what is the definition of "under control"?
"Data not dates" seems to be the new line - I would love to know how anyone could make a data driven decision where the measure is "low levels".

I think if Cases are stable and not on an upward trajectory that’s under control.
We will level out on cases that reflect the movement of society so it’s bound to stop at 2-300 cases a day like last time.
Hopefully icu capacity is very safe. It will be I’m pretty positive on that.

Golf at Easter, kids outdoor sports, tennis etc is far from a fantasy as some in here would have you believe.

hurleronditch

I think April 5th is a feasible target if we continue to get the numbers down, and I think it fits with the fairly underwhelming ****e that was fished out yesterday.

On the numbers I actually would be glad if 4s weren’t allowed. 2s is best from a social distancing perspective as you’re either walking or one should always be playing and one waiting. I played in a 4 with a mate and 2 strangers twice during December in Corballis and I didn’t enjoy it as much as I should.

People fall into old habits, some tight tee boxes promote grouping together in a cluster and it can be hard to enforce other people’s behaviour. One of our grouping at the end of the month just wanted to be telling one of the three of us at all times about his clubs, his gear, his game, and just stuck close to one of us at all times so he could keep talking.

Wife heading back into 27 junior infants next week. Will actually make her job easier than it is currently despite what some people think before someone mentions that.

If schools are open and the mixing that goes with that then fourballs with a normal time gap are also expected when we eventually get back playing.

spacecoyote

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Wife heading back into 27 junior infants next week. Will actually make her job easier than it is currently despite what some people think before someone mentions that.

If schools are open and the mixing that goes with that then fourballs with a normal time gap are also expected when we eventually get back playing.

Agreed, much wife is a teacher and desperate to get back into the classroom, though 4th class so will be stuck a couple of weeks longer.

Hopefully low impact to numbers and things keep heading the right direction for the reopen

boardise

On Pat Kenny this morning Luke O'Neill said straight out that golf perfectly safe and he had not heard of any evidence that it had been a generator of infections -endorsing what we already know and said here.
Another fine weekend coming up for most areas -and utterly crazy and indefensible that courses closed. I am beyond disgusted with the stupidity of our total political system.

TXPTGR1

boardise wrote: »

On Pat Kenny this morning Luke O'Neill said straight out that golf perfectly safe and he had not heard of any evidence that it had been a generator of infections -endorsing what we already know and said here.
Another fine weekend coming up for most areas -and utterly crazy and indefensible that courses closed. I am beyond disgusted with the stupidity of our total political system.

It’s not the golf it’s the accompanying activity
I’m a member of a society who were by no mean exceptional in doing their level best to flout various restrictions wrt to social distancing , travel restrictions, car sharing and having prize giving events- from what I hear from other clubs by no means are they an outlier.
That is why clubs remain closed - nobody is pretending that the actual on course activities are leading to serious spread

ShivasIrons

boardise wrote: »

On Pat Kenny this morning Luke O'Neill said straight out that golf perfectly safe and he had not heard of any evidence that it had been a generator of infections -endorsing what we already know and said here.
Another fine weekend coming up for most areas -and utterly crazy and indefensible that courses closed. I am beyond disgusted with the stupidity of our total political system.

That's not fully true, there was cases in golf clubs before Christmas, at least two that I heard of. The suspicion is that the transmission occurred in the clubhouses after golf but one golfer passed it on to 2 of their playing partners and one other.


I also know of a golf coach who contracted covid, they thought it might have happened during a group lesson.


As the poster above said it's the activities around golf that cause the spread not the activity itself. Can we guarantee that if golf was to open up sooner that there would be increase in the activities of people gathering and mixing outside of playing? I'm not sure we can.


To be absolutely certain of no spread, it would be get in your car, drive to the golf course, wait in your car until your tee time, play as a single, get in your car when finished and drive home with no stopping on the car journeys. Would that happen?


After the first lockdown last year, the virus was suppressed in the country. We did it before, why not do it again and when it's suppressed open up and put in measures so it doesn't come back into the country until enough are vaccinated?



Are we better off opening 2 weeks too early or 2 weeks later then needed?



I also think the push for golf should ignore golf and push for outdoor non contact activities where it's easy to social distance. Give attention to all those not just golf, easier to get more people onside then.

blue note

Did Luke O'Neill say anything about how safe the things people will do if golf is open that they otherwise would not?

It is incredible how people can take such a blinkered view on this. I want to play too, so have equal reason to close my eyes so I don't read anything about people car sharing, and put my hands over my ears so I don't hear anything about people meeting for coffee after. But I might as well admit to myself that these things would happen, so there's a reason the courses are closed. The transmissions from it are low even including the non golf stuff and that's why it'll be one of the first to open.

It's interesting that people have no problem understanding that gaa was a problem due to people partying after winning a cup (so the non sport part, the part that was banned anyway), but can't understand why golf would be banned because of the non golf stuff (like the 20 lads in a tullamore hotel). I suppose it just shows people's ability to block out information they don't want in their heads.

Pdoghue

blue note wrote: »

Did Luke O'Neill say anything about how safe the things people will do if golf is open that they otherwise would not?

It is incredible how people can take such a blinkered view on this. I want to play too, so have equal reason to close my eyes so I don't read anything about people car sharing, and put my hands over my ears so I don't hear anything about people meeting for coffee after. But I might as well admit to myself that these things would happen, so there's a reason the courses are closed. The transmissions from it are low even including the non golf stuff and that's why it'll be one of the first to open.

It's interesting that people have no problem understanding that gaa was a problem due to people partying after winning a cup (so the non sport part, the part that was banned anyway), but can't understand why golf would be banned because of the non golf stuff (like the 20 lads in a tullamore hotel). I suppose it just shows people's ability to block out information they don't want in their heads.

Spot on. I was involved in interclub matches up until things closed down in October and lads from our club blatantly ignored the rules about no spectators allowed on the course, including committee members who were telling people not to be there! Prize giving events too.

I don't think anybody wants Clubhouses Open, Presentations, Hotels Open etc. etc. all things which can cause problems.

We are only looking to be able to play Golf at sometime in the not too distant future. I couldn't care less about any of the other things that come with it at this moment in time.

Seve OB

ShivasIrons wrote: »

As the poster above said it's the activities around golf that cause the spread not the activity itself. Can we guarantee that if golf was to open up sooner that there would be increase in the activities of people gathering and mixing outside of playing? I'm not sure we can.

Of course we can’t. But forget about golf for a second. Just go outside and take a look around. People are gathering and doing all sorts of things they are not supposed to be doing. Wait till you see the parks over the weekend if this weather keeps up.

Do you really think it’s better that people continue like this or be allowed to play golf where we know they are naturally not going to be in anything like the groups seen in parks.

As for other points above about what goes with it.
The group was in a hotel, nothing to do with golf.
People sharing lifts. They shouldn’t be doing this but if they are thick enough to be sharing a lift to play golf I think you’ll find the chances are they are probably knocking over to each other’s houses at the weekends anyway to have a few scoops.
Societies can be banned.
Clubhouses can remain closed.

No reason at all that golf cannot open safely.

Nothing I have read above can change my mind on that because everything has a solution.

blue note

The group in the hotel were there for golf. Take golf away and they wouldn't have been there.

The guys car sharing to the club wouldn't be in the car together if golf was shut.

The GAA teams who went back to someone's house to celebrate had as much to do with GAA as the lads in the hotel in Tullamore had to do with golf.

When you're looking at the restrictions, there's no point in looking at how effective they would be if people followed them exactly. You have to look at the overall effect of them. And in the case of allowing golf, you have to factor in the other stuff that people will do. Because that's part of the overall effect of them.

The Big Easy

The state's own human rights watchdog has concerns over regulations and today's Irish Times poll is not good reading for our 'leaders'.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/covid-19-restrictions-raise-human-rights-and-equality-concerns-1.4494196

That's behind the Times paywall but the gist of the report is here also. Most pertinent piece from the Times article imo:

Problems in the law-making process “are exacerbated by the relationship between Nphet and the Government”. At times Nphet acted as “de facto decision-maker”, and there is a risk that public health advice “captures the whole decision-making process”. “This would be problematic both because important decisions should be made by democratically accountable actors and because Nphet has no particular expertise in human rights and equality.”

https://www.ihrec.ie/governments-blurred-lines-on-covid-emergency-powers-exposed-in-new-research/

Wouldn't be surprised to see us back on the golf course before April 5th yet, lots of people have had enough. Michael Ring (whatever you think about him) made it clear at the Fine Gael parliamentary party meeting that the public is being lost.

Seve OB

blue note wrote: »

The group in the hotel were there for golf. Take golf away and they wouldn't have been there.

The guys car sharing to the club wouldn't be in the car together if golf was shut.

The GAA teams who went back to someone's house to celebrate had as much to do with GAA as the lads in the hotel in Tullamore had to do with golf.

When you're looking at the restrictions, there's no point in looking at how effective they would be if people followed them exactly. You have to look at the overall effect of them. And in the case of allowing golf, you have to factor in the other stuff that people will do. Because that's part of the overall effect of them.

Set safe rules.
Most will abide.
Plonkers will be plonkers with or without restrictions.

Raisins

Seve OB wrote: »

Set safe rules.
Most will abide.
Plonkers will be plonkers with or without restrictions.

You could make that argument for most restrictions.

I can’t get my head around the people who think that golf courses should be open before schools. They’re assessing the return of each set of students before allowing the next set back to school. How can you say thousands should be allowed play golf when we’re living in that restrictive a society?

Anecdotally the family members and friends who complain the golf the most are in cohort of retired or semi retired people whose entire lives revolve around golf. That’s ok everyone want to get back to play but it should be placed in context. Golfers were taking the piss with the restrictions last summer anyone who plays golf and is honest could see it.

dball

Raisins wrote: »

anyone who plays golf and is honest could see it.

not in our club
IM referring to our members and not visitors

srfc d16

Raisins wrote: »

You could make that argument for most restrictions.

I can’t get my head around the people who think that golf courses should be open before schools. They’re assessing the return of each set of students before allowing the next set back to school. How can you say thousands should be allowed play golf when we’re living in that restrictive a society?

Anecdotally the family members and friends who complain the golf the most are in cohort of retired or semi retired people whose entire lives revolve around golf. That’s ok everyone want to get back to play but it should be placed in context. Golfers were taking the piss with the restrictions last summer anyone who plays golf and is honest could see it.

I disagree. In my own club there were no society groups or individual green fees allowed, the club house was shut when they were meant to be, no rakes, no putting green, groups spaced. Captains and presidents prize cancelled as there would be too many people looking for slots on the timesheet.
If there were issues with people travelling in the car together I am being honest when I say I did not see it.

RoadRunner

Raisins wrote: »

Golfers were taking the piss with the restrictions last summer

Our place had a staff member fulltime on the driveway into the club. They had a print of the timesheet and stopped you on your way in asked your name and looked up whether you were on the timesheet for the next few minutes. Once I turned up a few minutes too early, maybe 10 minutes, while the previous group may have have still been in the (extremely large) carpark. I was told I could wait in a secondary empty carpark and asked not to show up early again. When you say "taking the piss", I'm not really sure what you mean

Seve OB

Raisins wrote: »

You could make that argument for most restrictions.

I can’t get my head around the people who think that golf courses should be open before schools. They’re assessing the return of each set of students before allowing the next set back to school. How can you say thousands should be allowed play golf when we’re living in that restrictive a society?

Anecdotally the family members and friends who complain the golf the most are in cohort of retired or semi retired people whose entire lives revolve around golf. That’s ok everyone want to get back to play but it should be placed in context. Golfers were taking the piss with the restrictions last summer anyone who plays golf and is honest could see it.

For the record I have 3 kids in primary school, one of whom is in first class and was supposed to go back next Monday but won’t be now......... but hey that’s another story.

I never said that I think golf should be allowed open before schools but now that you mention it, I do actually think it should.

It was last May.

And the logic of allowing a few people spread out in a field is quite simple to understand ahead of bunching a load of kids together in a box

Seve OB

Raisins wrote: »

Golfers were taking the piss with the restrictions last summer anyone who plays golf and is honest could see it.

Just on this point, I would wonder are you even a member of a club as this is just not a true comment to make. As a member of 2 clubs and someone who was also lucky enough to get out in a few other places last year I didn't see any taking the piss carry on when it came to golf.

But I do admit I heard of a few people who got a bit close with others on tee boxes. Some went into clubhouse bars, which was no different to them going to the local bar which served food. Most of these lads would have been going to their local anyway later on, so you can't blame golf for them going for a pint.

I think I went into our clubhouse twice, captains day and one other time. Don't hang me though, because maybe I did go another time which has slipped my mind, but in the main, most guys played their golf and jumped in their car.

Next you'll be telling me that there were no kids at all who congregated in big groups together over the last year..............:rolleyes:;)

Raisins

Seve OB wrote: »

Just on this point, I would wonder are you even a member of a club as this is just not a true comment to make. As a member of 2 clubs and someone who was also lucky enough to get out in a few other places last year I didn't see any taking the piss carry on when it came to golf.

But I do admit I heard of a few people who got a bit close with others on tee boxes. Some went into clubhouse bars, which was no different to them going to the local bar which served food. Most of these lads would have been going to their local anyway later on, so you can't blame golf for them going for a pint.

I think I went into our clubhouse twice, captains day and one other time. Don't hang me though, because maybe I did go another time which has slipped my mind, but in the main, most guys played their golf and jumped in their car.

Next you'll be telling me that there were no kids at all who congregated in big groups together over the last year..............:rolleyes:;)

Listen I’m not trying to trigger a load of golfers I’m a member of a club that was strict. I might actually be in the same club as the poster above because we had a steward with a clipboard who acted the same way. If I put my name down with someone with the new variant I’d be surprised it I didn’t catch it from him or her in 18 holes from green tee boxes pro shop etc but I dunno... that wasn’t what I was getting at.

I said golfers took the piss and all of us could see them. I thought that was not really disputed. If you want to say they’d have a pint in town anyways you’re missing the point.

The point as to why golf is not allowed has been done to death. It’s not about walking around socially distanced in a field. Some people want to hear that and some people don’t. It’s the same as the distance argument that was also done to death.

You say it makes more sense than having kids crammed into a box...if you listen to radio or go into the schools thread you’ll hear people say all the kids are socially distanced and it’s proven to be safe so what’s the problem with schools? Go figure.

willabur

Played lots of golf last year. Did not see anyone taking the piss. Far far more unsafe behaviour going on in supermarkets and shops.

Break80

Raisins wrote: »

Listen I’m not trying to trigger a load of golfers I’m a member of a club that was strict. I might actually be in the same club as the poster above because we had a steward with a clipboard who acted the same way. If I put my name down with someone with the new variant I’d be surprised it I didn’t catch it from him or her in 18 holes from green tee boxes pro shop etc but I dunno... that wasn’t what I was getting at.

I said golfers took the piss and all of us could see them. I thought that was not really disputed. If you want to say they’d have a pint in town anyways you’re missing the point.

The point as to why golf is not allowed has been done to death. It’s not about walking around socially distanced in a field. Some people want to hear that and some people don’t. It’s the same as the distance argument that was also done to death.



I'm sorry but I just don't get what you are trying to say.
You said Golfers were taking the P. but plenty come on to say most clubs were well run and abiding by all rules at the time.
Your point about retired golfers and their whole lives revolving around golf.
What is wrong with this if it's what they want to do?
They have paid their dues and maybe this is all they have. In my club there is a large group of older guys who live for the Wednesday comp.
What have they at the moment?


People drinking and eating in the Clubhouse after the round were ALLOWED to under the rules at the time.
If you are uncomfortable in any environment just leave.
It's called Personal Responsibility.
If we all took some more of this instead of depending on the Nanny State we might be a bit better off.

rickis tache

According to golf Ireland they hope to proceed with the interclub comp. Draws to be made March 19.

Raisins

Break80 wrote: »

Raisins wrote: »

I'm sorry but I just don't get what you are trying to say.
You said Golfers were taking the P. but plenty come on to say most clubs were well run and abiding by all rules at the time.
Your point about retired golfers and their whole lives revolving around golf.
What is wrong with this if it's what they want to do?
They have paid their dues and maybe this is all they have. In my club there is a large group of older guys who live for the Wednesday comp.
What have they at the moment?


People drinking and eating in the Clubhouse after the round were ALLOWED to under the rules at the time.
If you are uncomfortable in any environment just leave.
It's called Personal Responsibility.
If we all took some more of this instead of depending on the Nanny State we might be a bit better off.

What are you talking about I know that was allowed? I didn’t say a word about anyone eating in the clubhouse.

Listen loads of groups of golfers broke the rules last summer. You don’t want to accept that that’s ok. Golfgate, Tullamore were well publicised examples of conduct that was not at all unusual.

No problem with older retired people being obsessed with golf but the outrage that golf hasn’t reopened is a little jarring IMO when it’s a completely reasonable restriction to leave in place.

thecomedian

The examples you point out had nothing to do with a golf course or club. They happened at hotels or pubs.

Golfers did not take the piss last summer.
I was a member in 2 clubs and both stuck to the guidelines. The busier one was similar to others with stewards on the car park all day.

kieran.

Raisins wrote: »

If I put my name down with someone with the new variant I’d be surprised it I didn’t catch it from him or her in 18 holes.. .. .

One of my family of 6 had it recently so assume it to be the new variant, we spent 2 weeks (with no meaningful isolation) in lockdown with him and non of us caught, so I would not be so sure you would pick it up from a playing partner over the course over 18 Holes!