Golf Lockdown Discussion ** No discussion of breaking Restrictions **

Miley Byrne

Benicetomonty wrote: »

4balls will be allowed. Competitions surely will also be permitted. No reason why competitive golf and opens cant resume from Monday week.

Nothing stopping clubs from running handicap qualifying stableford/stroke events since we reopened. Full weekend of them at my place

dan_ep82

So when will the flags be removable again?

Same with distance marker posts, ball washers etc?

Ceepo

4 ball from the 10th.

Following yesterday’s announcement from the Irish Government, we are pleased to be able to provide details of the changes to the return to Golf Protocol effective from May 10th.

The changes from that date are:
Fourballs are permitted with no household restrictions
No limits on domestic travel
Member guests and visitors will be permitted
All other protocols will remain in place including set tee-time intervals whilst the principal of Arrive-Play- Depart without delay should continue to be implemented.

Benicetomonty

Miley Byrne wrote: »

Nothing stopping clubs from running handicap qualifying stableford/stroke events since we reopened. Full weekend of them at my place

Amateur competitions are not yet permitted according to Sport Ireland and, by extension, Golf Ireland. Clubs who allow visitors to play are not breaching the protocol. By hosting competitions, as ridiculous as it may be, your club is in breach.

Benicetomonty

Ceepo wrote: »

4 ball from the 10th.

Following yesterday’s announcement from the Irish Government, we are pleased to be able to provide details of the changes to the return to Golf Protocol effective from May 10th.

The changes from that date are:
Fourballs are permitted with no household restrictions
No limits on domestic travel
Member guests and visitors will be permitted
All other protocols will remain in place including set tee-time intervals whilst the principal of Arrive-Play- Depart without delay should continue to be implemented.

Source? Nothing on Golf Ireland FB or Twitter that I can see? And nothing about competitions?

Kingswood Rover

Miley Byrne wrote: »

Nothing stopping clubs from running handicap qualifying stableford/stroke events since we reopened. Full weekend of them at my place

Golf Ireland saying different today
"In accordance with the Government announcements on Thursday 29th April, formal, organised competitions and Inter-Club matches should not be
arranged to take place any earlier than 7th June 2021. Golf Ireland is engaging with Sport Ireland and the Expert Group on this matter".
So that is pretty clear. Load of Cack btw but clear

benji79

dan_ep82 wrote: »

So when will the flags be removable again?

Same with distance marker posts, ball washers etc?

I’d be probably in the minority I’d reckon but I wouldn’t be bothered if flags remained in full time, I think it’s grand to speed up play a bit at times.
Only issue is that some clubs appear to have crap yokes in the hole that almost keep the ball from dropping.

Ceepo

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Source? Nothing on Golf Ireland FB or Twitter that I can see? And nothing about competitions?

Email received form my club earlier today.

No mention of competition on the email

Euphoriasean

benji79 wrote: »

I’d be probably in the minority I’d reckon but I wouldn’t be bothered if flags remained in full time, I think it’s grand to speed up play a bit at times.
Only issue is that some clubs appear to have crap yokes in the hole that almost keep the ball from dropping.

I'm with you there. Not looking forward to hearing "do you want the flag in or out" for the first time. We've managed fine without faffing around with the flag.

dan_ep82

benji79 wrote: »

I’d be probably in the minority I’d reckon but I wouldn’t be bothered if flags remained in full time, I think it’s grand to speed up play a bit at times.
Only issue is that some clubs appear to have crap yokes in the hole that almost keep the ball from dropping.

I don't mind them in for distance putts but I prefer them out on shorter puts, I find I subconsciously aim to one side.

Lip Out

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Source? Nothing on Golf Ireland FB or Twitter that I can see? And nothing about competitions?

https://static.clubhouse.golfireland.ie/clubs/1000/uploads/files/club_support/gi_livingwithcovidroi_may10_2.pdf

Poker Face

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Source? Nothing on Golf Ireland FB or Twitter that I can see? And nothing about competitions?

https://static.clubhouse.golfireland.ie/clubs/1000/uploads/files/club_support/gi_livingwithcovidroi_may10_2.pdf

Poker Face

Kingswood Rover wrote: »

Golf Ireland saying different today
"In accordance with the Government announcements on Thursday 29th April, formal, organised competitions and Inter-Club matches should not be
arranged to take place any earlier than 7th June 2021. Golf Ireland is engaging with Sport Ireland and the Expert Group on this matter".
So that is pretty clear. Load of Cack btw but clear

Right after that paragraph you quoted it says the following

Clubs are permitted to administer handicap-qualifying activities which may involve collection of entry/registration fees (which should be done online), a
procedure for players registering to play a counting round, and collation of scores and handicap adjustments in accordance with the Rules of Handicapping. However, all such golf activities should be solely on the basis of “arrival-play-depart without delay". CLICK HERE for measures which can be taken for activities accepted for handicap purposes.

So in other words work away but just don't call it a competition!!

dan_ep82

Any word from clubs when Opens will be back up and running?

Glad we didn't have this weather last Monday. Can you imagine...

JJTippBhoy

Exactly wrote: »

Glad we didn't have this weather last Monday. Can you imagine...

I’d still have gone out

slingerz

dan_ep82 wrote: »

Any word from clubs when Opens will be back up and running?

No one knows for certain. Left very ambiguous after the last announcement.

Miley Byrne

Can you point out how any club could be in breach of protocols by having internal stableford/strokeplay events please?

(Emphasis my own)

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Amateur competitions are not yet permitted according to Sport Ireland and, by extension, Golf Ireland. Clubs who allow visitors to play are not breaching the protocol. By hosting competitions, as ridiculous as it may be, your club is in breach.

Q. Can I play handicap qualifying golf?
Sport Ireland and the Expert Group on Sport have stipulated in their sectoral
guidance regarding the sports that are resuming on 26th April that no formal
competitions should be organised or promoted by clubs in the initial phase of
reopening. Clubs are permitted to administer handicap-qualifying activities which
may involve collection of entry/registration fees (which should be done online), a
procedure for players registering to play a counting round, and collation of scores
and handicap adjustments in accordance with the Rules of Handicapping. However,
all such golf activities should be solely on the basis of “arrival-play-depart without
delay". Measures which can be taken for activities accepted for handicap purposes
can be found here.
Q: Can our club run internal competitions as part of the handicapping activities that are
permitted in the initial phase?
A: A club can facilitate handicap-counting activities that occur on the basis of the principle
of “arrival-play-depart without delay”, as set out in the protocol.
As the Government Expert Groups on Sport for both the Republic of Ireland and Northern
Ireland has stipulated that no formal organised competitions can take place in the initial
phase, clubs must not promote any activities as competitions, or that meet the definition of
competitive sport in a golf club setting, including but not limited to organised
stroke/stableford/v-par events and rounds of internal club match play tournaments or club
championships.
However, not all activities in the golf club setting are organised in such a competitive
manner, and regular handicap-counting activities that involve players arriving, playing golf
and departing the facility without delay are generally permitted. Therefore, clubs may
facilitate a form of play that involves the submission of scores for handicapping purposes,
which under the Rules of Handicapping may take the form of either a) General Play with
scores submitted in a manner prescribed by the club, which may include the Golf Ireland
App or b) with the computer system set up for a competition, for the purposes of collating
all scores on the day and calculating a PCC (Playing Condition Calculation).
In either of these forms, the following associated activities are permitted:
• an entry fee may be charged (which should be online),
• registration to compete (ie, sign-in) may be taken at a club terminal or in a golf shop
• submission of scores is made, and results are published internally to membership
databases along with handicap adjustments
To ensure clear differentiation between these activities and competitive sport, in the initial
phase the following must also be observed:
• Such activities must not be promoted as competitions. If set up on the computer
system, the title of the activity should be the form of play (ie, “Singles Stableford”,
“Singles Stroke” etc).
• Prize presentations must not be organised, and results must not be promoted in
public media.

sprucemoose

valoren wrote: »

Needed to go to office today after a year away in Cork and dropped by Frankfield Driving range. Anyone know what the story is because the bays are restricted to GUI and Range members only. Have always used that range and no idea about what being a Range member entails? Tried ringing but there's no answer.

got the same spiel from the security guard when i tried to pop in last year, i think as soon as green fees will be allowed the range will be open to all too. theres a fairly rough and ready thats open by ballincollig if thats any good to you?

Deporhostia

Frankfield have that sign up but I don't think they've been stopping anybody this time round.

Even last lockdown when they did stop me the first time I went there, I told them I used to be GUI and they had no problem with that, they let me in.

They never asked me again

gary29428

I am the secretary of a society and we have an outing on May 22nd, I think green fees are permitted by May 10th but haven't been able to get any info on societies...anybody heard anything on this front...

Benicetomonty

Miley Byrne wrote: »

Can you point out how any club could be in breach of protocols by having internal stableford/strokeplay events please?

(Emphasis my own)




Q. Can I play handicap qualifying golf?
Sport Ireland and the Expert Group on Sport have stipulated in their sectoral
guidance regarding the sports that are resuming on 26th April that no formal
competitions should be organised or promoted by clubs in the initial phase of
reopening. Clubs are permitted to administer handicap-qualifying activities which
may involve collection of entry/registration fees (which should be done online), a
procedure for players registering to play a counting round, and collation of scores
and handicap adjustments in accordance with the Rules of Handicapping. However,
all such golf activities should be solely on the basis of “arrival-play-depart without
delay". Measures which can be taken for activities accepted for handicap purposes
can be found here.
Q: Can our club run internal competitions as part of the handicapping activities that are
permitted in the initial phase?
A: A club can facilitate handicap-counting activities that occur on the basis of the principle
of “arrival-play-depart without delay”, as set out in the protocol.
As the Government Expert Groups on Sport for both the Republic of Ireland and Northern
Ireland has stipulated that no formal organised competitions can take place in the initial
phase, clubs must not promote any activities as competitions, or that meet the definition of
competitive sport in a golf club setting, including but not limited to organised
stroke/stableford/v-par events and rounds of internal club match play tournaments or club
championships.
However, not all activities in the golf club setting are organised in such a competitive
manner, and regular handicap-counting activities that involve players arriving, playing golf
and departing the facility without delay are generally permitted. Therefore, clubs may
facilitate a form of play that involves the submission of scores for handicapping purposes,
which under the Rules of Handicapping may take the form of either a) General Play with
scores submitted in a manner prescribed by the club, which may include the Golf Ireland
App or b) with the computer system set up for a competition, for the purposes of collating
all scores on the day and calculating a PCC (Playing Condition Calculation).
In either of these forms, the following associated activities are permitted:
• an entry fee may be charged (which should be online),
• registration to compete (ie, sign-in) may be taken at a club terminal or in a golf shop
• submission of scores is made, and results are published internally to membership
databases along with handicap adjustments
To ensure clear differentiation between these activities and competitive sport, in the initial
phase the following must also be observed:
• Such activities must not be promoted as competitions. If set up on the computer
system, the title of the activity should be the form of play (ie, “Singles Stableford”,
“Singles Stroke” etc).
• Prize presentations must not be organised, and results must not be promoted in
public media.

Golf Ireland are trying very hard to allow competitive golf internally without referring to it as such. What you have quoted is a spectacular effort, truly an education in semantics. Indeed, it may well be enough to pass muster and allow clubs to host 'events' that will create some much needed revenue for clubs and club pros alike.

But what is being described in the document is how to host a competition without calling it a competition, make no mistake. And Sports Ireland have said no amateur competitions until June 7th. Golf Ireland's protocol may not have been breached, given a liberal (and, most likely, the intended) interpretation, but Sports Ireland's regulations are being breached, by GI covertly and by your club overtly.

billy3sheets

gary29428 wrote: »

I am the secretary of a society and we have an outing on May 22nd, I think green fees are permitted by May 10th but haven't been able to get any info on societies...anybody heard anything on this front...

I'm secretary of a society too and we had an outing scheduled on May 8th but pushed it back a week to the 15th so as to comply with government restrictions. Not sure what shape the groups will be yet but hopefully play in four balls. No prize giving at the end. Just announce winners on WhatsApp.

willabur

Corballis hasn't opened up next week for bookings. Heard a few other places holding back also anticipating allowance of 4 balls etc

slingerz

Saw something on Facebook that competitions won’t be back until June 7th when competition is allowed in all sports.

Some in Sport Ireland must really dislike golf

willabur

willabur wrote: »

Corballis hasn't opened up next week for bookings. Heard a few other places holding back also anticipating allowance of 4 balls etc

It was announced on Friday by Golf Ireland that fourballs are allowed from Monday 10th with 10 minute intervals.

prawnsambo

slingerz wrote: »

Saw something on Facebook that competitions won’t be back until June 7th when competition is allowed in all sports.

Some in Sport Ireland must really dislike golf

I wouldn't be taking news from Facepalm as indicative of anything. Always check the source (which in this case seems to agree):

willabur

Exactly wrote: »

It was announced on Friday by Golf Ireland that fourballs are allowed from Monday 10th with 10 minute intervals.

Strange that they are still not opening the timesheets. Have heard some other courses doing the same.

bren2001

prawnsambo wrote: »

I wouldn't be taking news from Facepalm as indicative of anything. Always check the source (which in this case seems to agree):

I take it that means lessons are back next week?

prawnsambo

bren2001 wrote: »

I take it that means lessons are back next week?

Yep.