Golf Lockdown Discussion ** No discussion of breaking Restrictions **

hurleronditch

chuky_r_law wrote: »

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/golf-returns-today-clubs-can-23982725


so membership is not a requirement to play golf. what about the rest of it? is this 2 household thing set in stone or is it a Golf Ireland 'guideline'? can i have 4 lads from 4 households playing every 8 minutes? seeing as this membership 'rule' is a load of baloney what am i supposed to believe from Golf Ireland?

I thought the membership thing was just that no club was going to let green fees or guests out for the first few weeks with endless pent up demand from hundreds if not thousands of members? There are a handful of non members clubs around the country that are open to green fees

Wichita Lineman

Members are the lifeblood of clubs. Green fees are a bonus.

Luckycharm

KevH1984 wrote: »

:):) I'll put it down to beginners luck. Back out Saturday so will see what that brings

What handicap are you? You must be low single figs?

Snotty

My club is all 4 balls, timesheet full, I know it's up to each club but didn't think any club was going all 4 balls. Is this the same elsewhere?

Lip Out

Snotty wrote: »

My club is all 4 balls, timesheet full, I know it's up to each club but didn't think any club was going all 4 balls. Is this the same elsewhere?

The club should be named and congratulated for showing a bit of common sense and gumption.

paulos53

The European is open for green fees


https://www.irishgolfdesk.com/news-files/2021/4/27/the-european-club-welcomes-non-member-play-from-wicklow-or-20-km-visitors

The Big Easy

paulos53 wrote: »

The European is open for green fees


https://www.irishgolfdesk.com/news-files/2021/4/27/the-european-club-welcomes-non-member-play-from-wicklow-or-20-km-visitors

Would love to play it again but it would be a waste of €90 the way I'm hitting it!

First Up

Lip Out wrote:

The club should be named and congratulated for showing a bit of common sense and gumption.

How are they ensuring the fourballs come from only two households?

PARlance

Lip Out wrote: »

The club should be named and congratulated for showing a bit of common sense and gumption.

For the sake of the club it's probably best not to.

We began by operating 3 ball bookings but some aul wan kicked up an almighty fuss, so it's 2 ball only and you have to seek permission to add a third.

It only takes one.

kieran.

First Up wrote: »

How are they ensuring the fourballs come from only two households?

Why would they be, its not a clubs responsibility to enforce laws?

The Big Easy

I'm very much one who believes each to their own, but the wearing of masks outdoors, especially while engaging in sport or exercise, does sadden me.

Masks offer very little protection for the wearer and have always been encouraged as a way to reduce transmission from the wearer. If you have symptoms or are positive, maybe you could isolate, otherwise asymptomatic transmission outdoors is near impossible.

blue note

Ah, clubs can't be seen to be turning a blind eye to blatant rule breaches. Sure maybe soccer clubs could open too and just say all 22 players and the ref are from two households as well. Or claim they've no responsibility to make any effort to ensure the players are from two households. That's no more stupid than a club with a timesheet full of three and fourballs throwing their hands in the air and saying not our responsibility.

It's bad form that the club are doing that. They might think that the restrictions are stupid but for reasons too obvious to state we can't just ignore them.

downthemiddle

Lip Out wrote: »

The club should be named and congratulated for showing a bit of common sense and gumption.

Perhaps you are unaware that there was an issue with a breach of regulations with Dublin GAA. It didn't really get any publicity. The media have no interest in such matters and will clearly turn a blind eye if they become aware of such breaches.
A club acting like this shows little or no regard for the majority of golfers and risk causing problems for all of us. It is a reckless, selfish act that could have far reaching consequences.

11521323

blue note wrote: »

Ah, clubs can't be seen to be turning a blind eye to blatant rule breaches. Sure maybe soccer clubs could open too and just say all 22 players and the ref are from two households as well. Or claim they've no responsibility to make any effort to ensure the players are from two households. That's no more stupid than a club with a timesheet full of three and fourballs throwing their hands in the air and saying not our responsibility.

It's bad form that the club are doing that. They might think that the restrictions are stupid but for reasons too obvious to state we can't just ignore them.

Get a grip please.

lester76

What a difference a day makes frm glorious sunshine in shorts t-shirt to dark cold shorts t-shirt haha. Golf was good 34pts both days lost ball both days so normal service resumed. Back out tomorrow my body starting to hurt already but jesus it's great to be back hacking ðŸ‘

Motivator

lester76 wrote: »

What a difference a day makes frm glorious sunshine in shorts t-shirt to dark cold shorts t-shirt haha. Golf was good 34pts both days lost ball both days so normal service resumed. Back out tomorrow my body starting to hurt already but jesus it's great to be back hacking ðŸ‘

Tramore is always in great nick, when it opens back up for green fees and comps I’ll be out for the open singles. Great course and a good challenge.

First Up

kieran. wrote:

Why would they be, its not a clubs responsibility to enforce laws?

If they want to stay open is why.

KevH1984

Luckycharm wrote: »

What handicap are you? You must be low single figs?

2.3 on the new WHS.

RoadRunner

First Up wrote: »

How are they ensuring the fourballs come from only two households?

I said it from earlier in the year that return to golf but with caveats would just cause problems. Some clubs running fourballs, some three, some two. Some allowing guests others not. You now have different groups with each adding their own caveats.

- Nphet say "no more than two, unless they are from different households" with no understanding of booking/ admin systems.

- Government add in "no competitions" because, well, you can't have your cake and eat it on week1

- Golf Ireland then add in "members only, no visitors" which is nowhere in nphet or government recommendations, but obviously golf ireland only get their money when golfers pay full membership fees containing related fees.

Now there's no clear way to do anything for courses without upsetting members, visitors, leaving behind revenue on the table, and either using courses inefficiently or breaking rules, some of which are not even mandated by government.

First Up

RoadRunner wrote:

I said it from earlier in the year that return to golf but with caveats would just cause problems. Some clubs running fourballs, some three, some two. Some allowing guests others not. You now have different groups with each adding their own caveats.

Clubs can add as many caveats as they like but they all have to obey the law. If a club can ensure that groups are from no more than two households then they can allow as many as they want to play together.

But the onus will be on them to prove they are complying with the law and Golf Ireland instructions. If they can't, they risk sanctions, including closure.

blue note

From a practical point of view it's a terrible idea to allow more than two balls for the majority of the day. It's a very small percentage of people playing with someone from their own household so if you set up to allow fourballs and people obey the two household rule you have the timesheet spread out for fourball intervals and filled mainly with two balls. But with a few three and fourballs scattered in to slow things down for everyone.

Or, people don't obey the rule which will be obvious to the club and they will effectively be facilitating their members in breaking the two household rule.

The no green fees rule I don't think should have come from golf Ireland. It's fine for most clubs who have plenty of members. But there are clubs whose model is focused on selling a lot of green fees. Such as the European club. It's unfair on clubs to not have it as their decision whether to allow green fees or not.

That said, from a spread point of view, I imagine green fees are a big problem. You'll have people travelling together and staying together for rounds of golf if they can. But spring bodies can't set the rules they can only follow them. So if the government say it's fine that's how they should operate.

RoadRunner

First Up wrote: »

Clubs can add as many caveats as they like but they all have to obey the law. If a club can ensure that groups are from no more than two households then they can allow as many as they want to play together.

But the onus will be on them to prove they are complying with the law and Golf Ireland instructions. If they can't, they risk sanctions, including closure.

Very little is clear cut though. Golf was closed because of the risk of spread of covid. Golf Ireland gave strict instructions to each clubs that it was the governments mandate that members only can play golf, turns out this is not law and nphet/government don't care whether it's member or visitor. Golf Ireland just dont wanting visitors playing because it means their fees will be down for the year. This is different groups each sticking their own fork in with baseless rubbish caveats that have no bearing on the one thing that's important, the risk of spread of a virus.

Ivefoundgod

To be fair to Golf Ireland the allowing of visitors was only highlighted as a result of parliamentary question from Catherine Murphy and would never have come to light otherwise. If you look at the wording of the response;

In a Parliamentary Question response to Social Democrats co-leader, Catherine Murphy, the Department of Sport said: “The public health regulations do not draw a distinction between members and non-members in the case of golf, which is a matter for the NGB (National Governing Body) concerned, Golf Ireland, and its affiliated clubs to manage the available capacity in each club in accordance with the above-mentioned measures.”

it seems pretty clear to me that this is a civil servant taking a "not our problem" approach to the ministerial question. Point at Golf Ireland and say, "their problem".

On the issue of clubs allowing four balls, I don't agree with it for a variety of reasons but its particularly disappointing that we're not even a week open and already have people in here saying how great it is that the rules are being ignored. Its not too long ago in this very thread we had posters saying how adherent to the rules golfers had been and how ridiculous it was that courses were closed. If you want a quick route to getting golf closed again or casual golf/no visitor rules to continue then flouting the rules in the first week is a good way to go about it.

First Up

Caveat means warning. It doesn't mean (or permit) an opt out.

Wichita Lineman

I dont think Golf Ireland decided it should be members only just to collect their fees.

I do however think that Golf Ireland have rightly protected their clubs and their members by starting golf off as club members only. Green fees and societies are welcome additions to the finances but most clubs would not survive without annual membership fees.

I wonder why more people dont realise that Golf Ireland do not represent casual golfers as they are not members of any club.

How many people didnt rejoin a club this year thinking it would be far cheaper to pay an odd green fee? Now they are annoyed as their great plan didnt pay off and they might have to actually join and support 'their' club after all.

blue note

Wichita Lineman wrote: »

I dont think Golf Ireland decided it should be members only just to collect their fees.

There's not a chance this is any sort of effort from golf Ireland to collect fees.

Wichita Lineman wrote: »

I do however think that Golf Ireland have rightly protected their clubs and their members by starting golf off as club members only. Green fees and societies are welcome additions to the finances but most clubs would not survive without annual membership fees.

For most clubs, they are overwhelmingly reliant on members for revenue. But not for all golf clubs and I think it was unfair of Golf Ireland to impose that rule on them. I suspect most clubs would have opened to members only first, or at least members only for the vast majority of slots. But for clubs like the European and a few others, they probably can't come close to filling their timesheets without green fees. And they need money to survive.

Wichita Lineman wrote: »

I wonder why more people dont realise that Golf Ireland do not represent casual golfers as they are not members of any club.

Allowing clubs to grant access to casual golfers can be to the benefit of the club overall. In covid or non-covid times the reason for allowing casual golfers is the same - revenue for the club. If it's a private club it's revenue to make a profit, if it's a members club it's revenue to lessen the financial burden to the members of running the club. If a club wants to allow green fees and the government regulations allow it, it should be their decision.

Wichita Lineman wrote: »

How many people didnt rejoin a club this year thinking it would be far cheaper to pay an odd green fee? Now they are annoyed as their great plan didnt pay off and they might have to actually join and support 'their' club after all.

This will happen and clubs will get extra members from it. And it will also happen that clubs will just lose out on a few weeks of green fee revenue.

Coillte_Bhoy

Im presuming lessons arent allowed under these guidelines or are they?

The_Kew_Tour

First round back this morning. Decent weather really.

Only 1 par, but in saying that very enjoyable and just great be back. Only joined new club last year.

cjfitz

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Im presuming lessons arent allowed under these guidelines or are they?

Lessons are only allowed if you are under 18

Coillte_Bhoy

cjfitz wrote: »

Only if you are under 18

Lessons allowed for over 18's so?