Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

easypazz

Meath Lad42 wrote: »

Just wait until the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th waves hit. You won’t be so flippant then.

Sounds like great craic, can't wait.

gozunda

niallo27 wrote: »

You should be a politician, you managed to completely avoid the question, waffle for a while and then say something ludicrous to deflect. Are you horrified at the germans, polish, Czechs and Belgians lifting some restrictions early.

Incorrect. I pointed out that your statement that
"European countries who have been hit a lot worse than us or a lot less than us opening up months before us" Was bunkum and claptrap and thats putting it mildly. See previous comment for full details.

Just because some asks a question with no basis in reality does not mean it can be answered. As detailed a whole range of EU and other countries are lifting their restrictions on a phased basis. Not as you claimed that they were "opening up months before us". I see you've changed the tune anyway with that now being "Are you horrified at the germans, polish, Czechs and Belgians lifting some restrictions...".

No I'm not horrified at all. I am comfortable with believing that those countries know how the gradual lifting of restrictions is progressing in relation to their infection rates. I also note that many of those countries also have plans to bring back restrictions if things go pear shaped.

Perhaps you should at least have some modicum of respect for your fellow citizens and governments who are doing the same here. It may not be perfect but we have managed to lower the rate of infection. If we can reduce the number of new cases and the numbers dying then we are moving forward.

Dyr

One thing the government should be insisting on is that office environments should be closed permanently unless the business can show its an absolute neccissity to have their staff on premises. Lack of infratructure should not be accepted as an excuse. Same with education delivery. Unless there's an absolute necissity for physical presence, all third level education be delivered remotely, second level to be delivered remotely in part time

Time to call bull**** on it all and fix it in one go. Housing, transport, childcare, rural depopulation, environment.

easypazz

gozunda wrote: »

Incorrect. I pointed out that your statement that
"European countries who have been hit a lot worse than us or a lot less than us opening up months before us" Was bunkum and claptrap and thats putting it mildly. See previous comment for full details.

Just because some asks a daft question does not mean it has to be answered. As detailed a whole range of EU and other countries are lifting their restrictions on a phased basis. Not as you claimed that they were "opening up months before us". I see you've changed the tune anyway with that now being "Are you horrified at the germans, polish, Czechs and Belgians lifting some restrictions...".

No I'm not horrified at all. I am comfortable with believing that those countries know how the gradual lifting of restrictions is progressing in relation to their infection rates. I also note that many of those countries also have plans to bring back restrictions if things go pear shaped.

Perhaps you should at least have some modicum of respect for your fellow citizens and governments who are doing the same here. It may not be perfect but we have managed to lower the rate of infection. If we can reduce the number of new cases and the numbers dying then we are moving forward.

Tltr

Any chance you can start providing a synopsis at the start of your stories or are you deliberately trying to bore us all to death?

snotboogie

Bambi wrote: »

Time to call bull**** on it all and fix it in one go. Housing, transport, childcare, rural depopulation, environment.

The solution to all of our problems pre during and post covid, is to massively curtail everyone leaving the house. Sounds like an awesome society you have planned there

FintanMcluskey

Bambi wrote: »

One thing the government should be insisting on is that office environments should be closed permanently unless the business can show its an absolute neccissity to have their staff on premises. Lack of infratructure should not be accepted as an excuse. Same with education delivery. Unless there's an absolute necissity for physical presence, all third level education be delivered remotely, second level to be delivered remotely in part time

Time to call bull**** on it all and fix it in one go. Housing, transport, childcare, rural depopulation, environment.

How many people would actually want to work from home for the rest of their lives? Devoid of any social interaction and surely the lack of stimulation would be soul destroying?

normanoffside

Meath Lad42 wrote: »

I believe the Army could shut down the border and a volunteer group of civic minded folk could be given temporary power and uniforms to act as a civil defence force to monitor people who return to Ireland from abroad

Yourself and PaddyGreen would make a great force.

whelan2

easypazz wrote: »

But that is the policy for everybody now anyway, and has been for about 6 weeks.

Yes but the people who came back from Cheltenham etc didnt, this would have spread the virus. Neighbours came back from Spain and it was as if everything was normal

stephenjmcd

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

How many people would actually want to work from home for the rest of their lives? Devoid of any social interaction and surely the lack of stimulation would be soul destroying?

God no, I'm looking forward to going back into the office, WFH just isn't for me. I'll be back in the office 2 days a week and 3 days from home from the 18th (my own decision) until we're allowed back fully in August. Need to get some sort of structure back to the working day.

riclad

You are allowed to walk 5km from the house. There are still garda checks on the roads. I heard on radio people are complying with rules they have data from atms and traffic camera,s etc I see many pubs and cafes might not open again. They can't make a profit on 50per capacity. Only chemists or food shops are allowed to be open now

Doctor Jimbob

easypazz wrote: »

Plenty of pubs have outdoor space here.

They could also section off bits of the street outside and create beer gardens, as is being done in other countries.

But no, this is Ireland and thinking outside the box is frowned upon.

Imagine pubs with beer gardens opened here. The vintners would be ranting all over the place about how unfair it is within 5 minutes of the announcement.

Beasty

normanoffside wrote: »

Yourself and PaddyGreen would make a great force.

Threadbanned

Ginger n Lemon

Tensions truly are high in this thread. We all need to calm down. We are talking about idealistic things of "lifting restrictions" or "not lifting restrictions".

Was out and about around Phoenix park:

Reality is, every business/small shop I've just walked by is opened, some offering outside seating, completely disregarding govt's "plan".

See group of 20 + people completely disregarding social distancing rules.

2 people were wearing masks (out of about 300 I came across)

And then I had a very awkward encounter, as I was leaving Phoenix park there was a mother and her daughter trying to get in, I just stepped outside of the park and was somewhat in the way, froze up as they were approaching me fast and breaking social distancing.

As I stood there a bit paralysed thinking of doing a bit of social distancing, daughter walked by me with less than 1 metre between us, while her mother looked at me and said "just walk, its not difficult".

Damn was she right. Walked right past me. Social distancing seems to be a thing we read here + advertised on TV. it is not a thing out there in real world...

Just a matter of opening businesses now, hopefully ahead of schedule.

LiquidZeb

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

We're just going to have to learn to accept our standard of living is going to be decimated for a while.

No four/five holiday trips abroad every year. No takeouts every two nights because we are too lazy to cook. No new iPhones every year. No new cars every year or so "bought" on the never-never of lease-back. No more blowing €100 on a night out.

Pensions are going to be hit badly. Mortgages will have to be shifted to multi-generational ones.

But we will survive and rebuild. We did it after WW1 and Spanish flu. And after WW2.

Jesus Christ what is it with people here and the world wars and Spanish flu? You do realize they're not the only events in human history?

Dyr

snotboogie wrote: »

The solution to all of our problems pre during and post covid, is to massively curtail everyone leaving the house. Sounds like an awesome society you have planned there

Leaving the house? You'd be free to leave the house whenever you want Somewhat odd that you'd consider not having to commute to work would equate to being a shut in

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

How many people would actually want to work from home for the rest of their lives? Devoid of any social interaction and surely the lack of stimulation would be soul destroying?

Just shows the degree to which your employer dominates your life in modern times that you consider a life without and office to be a life without social interaction. You have a family, you have friends, you live in a community. Heaven forbid that you spend time among them. You might have to go out an develop a social life this way, rather than just flirting with Maeve in Accounts

Interestingly I'm actually spending far more time communicating and interacting with my team now because we cant be constantly interrupted or have to look over our shoulders in an open plan environment.

This is the way forwards lads. Property prices drop across the board, transport chaos disappears, urbanisation ends, environment improves, people spend more time with their families and communities, small businesses and services will grow locally. City centres become places where people leave again instead of business parks and tourist amusement rides.

Lord protect from a better life :rolleyes:

LiquidZeb

Meath Lad42 wrote: »

A camp should have been set up on the Curragh. Plenty of other countries pulled this kind of thing off.

Never knew Kim Jong un had a boards account. Glad you're feeling better btw.

kwestfan08

Meath Lad42 wrote: »

Just wait until the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th waves hit. You won’t be so flippant then.

That's been the mantra since the start for the people who feared the worst. Back in March when the numbers were growing but not overwhelming hospitals, just wait until next week.

And then when ICU numbers were increasing but not to the degree that Italy and Spain seen it was just wait.

And we're still waiting. And it hasn't happened. And that's down to the precautions we all took and adhered to diligently as a nation. And now we're seeing case numbers fall, even as testing has been ramped up from the early days. So maybe, just maybe the worst won't happen.

FintanMcluskey

Bambi wrote: »

Leaving the house? You'd be free to leave the house whenever you want Somewhat odd that you'd consider not having to commute to work would equate to being a shut in





Just shows the degree to which your employer dominates your life in modern times that you consider a life without and office to be a life without social interaction. You have a family, you have friends, you live in a community. Heaven forbid that you spend time among them. You might have to go out an develop a social life this way, rather than just flirting with Maeve in Accounts

Interestingly I'm actually spending far more time communicating and interacting with my team now because we cant be constantly interrupted or have to look over our shoulders in an open plan environment.

This is the way forwards lads. Property prices drop across the board, transport chaos disappears, urbanisation ends, environment improves, people spend more time with their families and communities, small businesses and services will grow locally. City centres become places where people leave again instead of business parks and tourist amusement rides.

Lord protect from a better life :rolleyes:

Most realistic WFH roles are 9-5 jobs, that have zero requirements for hands on tasks. Thats already eliminated the options down to admin and IT roles.
The issue with IT will then be, if it can be done from some guys house in Carlow it can be outsourced to cheap labour countries. Be careful what we wish for

snowcat

Penfailed wrote: »

Sweden? That country with more deaths than it's neighbouring countries combined?

The neighbouring country thing is hard to explain even in neighbouring countries with similiar lockdowns. Spain and Portugal. Italy and Switzerland. USA and Canada. China Japan and SK. Iran and Iraq. And many more

Dempo1

Whilst all very good in theory, these new rules regarding businesses reopening, apart from basic hygiene principles, there's not a single other measure that is practical or workable in most small retail stores.

Take mobile phone shops, people assume customers pop in buy a phone, pop back out, absolutely not the case.

80% of footfall relates too

phone problems (meaning devices have to be touched).

Billing issues (meaning prolonged face to face contact).

Contracts/Upgrades requiring documentation sharing, scanning and time frame coupled with device set up if approved).

Phone repairs, again involving touching of devices which are in fact not even repaired in network stores, again involving, packaging and more 3rd party close interaction.

Finally, (a particular cohert of customer and there are many incapable of topping up their phones, again more close contact)

Of course most of the above could be refused, one wonders how long such shops will remain open.

The notion any of the proposed rules will work in this scenario are a nonsense, not withstanding staff working in close quarters with canteen or changing room facilities.

It's going to be a shambles with whatever business that was left going online.

LiquidZeb

easypazz wrote: »

Plenty of pubs have outdoor space here.

They could also section off bits of the street outside and create beer gardens, as is being done in other countries.

But no, this is Ireland and thinking outside the box is frowned upon.

Yeah it makes much more sense to let the whole country go bankrupt. Don't worry though Leo will come in and give us loads of cash to save the day. And I'll become the king of Denmark.

FintanMcluskey

snowcat wrote: »

The neighbouring country thing is hard to explain even in neighbouring countries with similiar lockdowns. Spain and Portugal. Italy and Switzerland. USA and Canada. China Japan and SK. Iran and Iraq. And many more

Bottom line is Sweden should have 120k dead by now. They dont. The kids should be in school in Ireland.

This is not remotely as dangerous as first thought, but Ireland is still approaching it as if the fatality rate was 10%

Kermit.de.frog

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Tensions truly are high in this thread. We all need to calm down. We are talking about idealistic things of "lifting restrictions" or "not lifting restrictions".

Was out and about around Phoenix park:

Reality is, every business/small shop I've just walked by is opened, some offering outside seating, completely disregarding govt's "plan".

See group of 20 + people completely disregarding social distancing rules.

2 people were wearing masks (out of about 300 I came across)

And then I had a very awkward encounter, as I was leaving Phoenix park there was a mother and her daughter trying to get in, I just stepped outside of the park and was somewhat in the way, froze up as they were approaching me fast and breaking social distancing.

As I stood there a bit paralysed thinking of doing a bit of social distancing, daughter walked by me with less than 1 metre between us, while her mother looked at me and said "just walk, its not difficult".

Damn was she right. Walked right past me. Social distancing seems to be a thing we read here + advertised on TV. it is not a thing out there in real world...

Just a matter of opening businesses now, hopefully ahead of schedule.

Why are you posting here then?

Sure, if every business is open and everyone is ignoring the rules you have no need to make your points, right?

Ginger n Lemon

Also, as someone who has a finance degree I want to dispel the proposals in this thread of "get the army to check people coming in and let the field nurses check all of their temperature etc"

I think you are overestimating our government's ability to borrow. We can not print money neither, that decision is with ECB not CBI.

I think it is becoming quite clear that we dont even have enough gardai to patrol the streets or even places of mass gatherings like Phoenix park I saw today, let alone airports, ports etc.

uli84

gozunda wrote: »

What? That's rubbish. They shut down their borders ffs

The Polish Ministry of Health even tried to prevent medical personnel from commenting on the pandemic.

All international air and rail travel to and from Poland was suspended. Poland's borders were closed to foreigners with very limited exceptions. All persons entering Poland from abroad had to undergo a compulsory 14-day home quarantine. Internal travel was limited forbidding non-essential travel. The army were mandated to help police to keep people off the streets if they had no good reason to be outside, 

See: https://www.gov.pl/web/coronavirus/travel



Hows the fek does any of that make them "3 months ahead of Ireland!"? Polish people had 8 weeks of stay at home restictions. We're only at week 6.

...

For all I care they can close the borders in Ireland as well, in fact they should as for public transport it’s back now but taking limited numbers of passengers as reasonable safety measure.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-poland-restriction/poland-to-reopen-hotels-and-shopping-malls-on-may-4-pm-idUSKCN22B11Q


As of today re-opening of restaurants and pubs with outdoor sitting has been confirmed for next week.

LiquidZeb

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Also, as someone who has a finance degree I want to dispel the proposals in this thread of "get the army to check people coming in and let the field nurses check all of their temperature etc"

I think you are overestimating our government's ability to borrow. We can not print money neither, that decision is with ECB not CBI.

I think it is becoming quite clear that we dont even have enough gardai to patrol the streets or even places of mass gatherings like Phoenix park I saw today, let alone airports, ports etc.

Well it seems some lads here want to live out their dictatorial fantasies through this whole thing. Ban international and national travel, microchip devices, camps, imprisonments etc. Some people really need to get out of the house quick.

iamwhoiam

Bambi wrote: »

Leaving the house? You'd be free to leave the house whenever you want Somewhat odd that you'd consider not having to commute to work would equate to being a shut in





Just shows the degree to which your employer dominates your life in modern times that you consider a life without and office to be a life without social interaction. You have a family, you have friends, you live in a community. Heaven forbid that you spend time among them. You might have to go out an develop a social life this way, rather than just flirting with Maeve in Accounts

Interestingly I'm actually spending far more time communicating and interacting with my team now because we cant be constantly interrupted or have to look over our shoulders in an open plan environment.

This is the way forwards lads. Property prices drop across the board, transport chaos disappears, urbanisation ends, environment improves, people spend more time with their families and communities, small businesses and services will grow locally. City centres become places where people leave again instead of business parks and tourist amusement rides.

Lord protect from a better life :rolleyes:

There are many reasons why people would prefer to work in an office rather than at home
Take a parent of a young family with no spare room and the down stairs an open plan . He /she would have to sit at a kitchen table while the young kids are trying to have a normal life in the same room
Take a young person sharing a house living in a box room and sharing living space with 5 others .
Or a family with three or four working adults trying to find space and peace to work from home
There are numerous reason why people need to work in an office not least of them for company and adult conversation

Ginger n Lemon

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Well it seems some lads here want to live out their dictatorial fantasies through this whole thing. Ban international and national travel, microchip devices, camps, imprisonments etc. Some people really need to get out of the house quick.

Weather is unbelievable so getting out of the house is highly recommended.

Below from BBC today:
"
Young men are more likely than young women to break lockdown rules, psychologists have suggested, after questioning just under 2,000 young people aged between 13 and 24.

Half of the men aged 19-24 had met friends or family members they did not live with during lockdown, compared to 25% of women.

The researchers from the University of Sheffield and Ulster University called on the government to better target messages for young people."

You think Tony saw this before announcing he isnt happy with younger peoples infection rate in this country?

Dyr

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Most realistic WFH roles are 9-5 jobs, that have zero requirements for hands on tasks. Thats already eliminated the options down to admin and IT roles.
The issue with IT will then be, if it can be done from some guys house in Carlow it can be outsourced to cheap labour countries. Be careful what we wish for

I work in IT. Frankly, if it can be outsourced to India it usually already has been or it will be soon. A lot of companies tried it and then realised that sweatshop IT is a bad fit for their needs. When I'm dealing with tenders for contracts a lot of the companies bidding will emphasise that their suppport is based in Ireland or UK, especially their second level support.

Ginger n Lemon

iamwhoiam wrote: »

There are many reasons why people would prefer to work in an office rather than at home
Take a parent of a young family with no spare room and the down stairs an open plan . He /she would have to sit at a kitchen table while the young kids are trying to have a normal life in the same room
Take a young person sharing a house living in a box room and sharing living space with 5 others .
Or a family with three or four working adults trying to find space and peace to work from home
There are numerous reason why people need to work in an office not least of them for company and adult conversation

There is also a need to support local businesses. Think of all the lunch places around your offices - all of them will go out of business very quickly if office buildings remain empty. Some of suggestions here could create unemployment of epic proportions, 28.2% from CSO the other day will seem like a low figure.