Covid19 Part XVII-24,841 in ROI (1,639 deaths) 4,679 in NI (518 deaths)(28/05)Read OP

ChelseaRentBoy

road_high wrote: »

That would make most of Europe idiots then, aren't most of their schools going back/back now or soon? But sure what would they know

It could be worse they could be nazis

kegblag

kegblag wrote: »

It's not entirely true that NZ is one of the worlds most isolated countries????

Surely it is entirely true?

What similar sized populations are more isolated out of interest?

Vietnam is around the same.

gabeeg

quokula wrote: »

The country we have a land border with has hundreds of thousands of cases, the next closest countries to us are also amongst the worst affected in the world. How exactly is it possible we could cope in the same way as an island in the middle of the pacific that is thousands of miles away from any severely affected country?

Close all the borders, abandon the thousands of Irish citizens all over Europe. Militarise the border with the north, at a time early enough to stop the virus (which we now know was in Europe in December), which means the public certainly wouldn't support it and who knows what reactions there might have been from the more unsavoury elements up there.

Then you somehow achieve that, without impacting any of our supply chains which are entirely built around open borders with Europe and the UK, then somehow we can just return to normal now despite there still being hundreds of thousands of cases all around us?

Do you really think it's a complete coincidence that the government that coped best with this virus also happens to be in the country most isolated from the rest of the world? A complete coincidence?

It's a complete coincidence that Italy, Spain, France and the UK have all been severely affected due entirely to policy, despite their mix of political systems, of left and right wing governments and of different cultures, and nothing to do with their geographical proximity?

There are countries that are doing well. Germany, Austria, Portugal, Ireland. We're not completely unaffected but we're keeping the damage to a minimum despite being located near ground zero. Being New Zealand was never going to be possible and anyone with the slightest bit of intelligence can see that.

I have the slightest bit of intelligence and I disagree.

We squandered weeks at the beginning of this crisis, whereas they acted fast.
Anyone with the slightest bit of intelligence can see that.

growleaves

kegblag wrote: »

It's not entirely true that NZ is one of the worlds most isolated countries????

Surely it is entirely true?

What similar sized populations are more isolated out of interest?

Countries that allow few people in as a matter of course such as Azerbaijan, Bhutan and Burma would be the typical example of isolated countries, wouldn't they?

I would expect NZ to have a lot back and forth tourist travel between Australia and Indonesia normally.

Any country that closes it borders in time could be suddenly isolated though. It is ideology that makes openness "inevitable".

rovers_runner

Christy42 wrote: »

I imagine the dead people. Definitely the numbers who have died. We haven't done badly but we are not a world leader either in all of this and I see no reason for Ireland not to be aiming at that. Check out Denmark, Germany NZ etc. We don't have to do the same but the ball park would be good. You can point to countries that did worse such as the UK but I feel like we should be striving to ensure we do better if it happens again. I agree that NZ has advantages we don't. However we may still be able to learn from them to improve.

350 ain't a terrible increase. There won't need to be a massive tax hike. Not sure too many care about the leaving cert being moved except the students and I imagine most of them will get over it.

I am not sure staying in your house for an extra week has a massive effect on your well being. I mean sure across the full period I can see loneliness but the extra time that wasn't required is minimal and I feel most people want to be safe than sorry.

For the €350, they have admitted that it will be rolled back at the end of this month, they are already kite flying, it's going to cripple us financially.

As for cocooning, it's not an extra week or two, it's already 2 months and it will be another 3 if the CMO and Govt get their way.
Five months in isolation for some single/widowed pensioners.....:(

caveat emptor

quokula wrote: »

The country we have a land border with has hundreds of thousands of cases, the next closest countries to us are also amongst the worst affected in the world. How exactly is it possible we could cope in the same way as an island in the middle of the pacific that is thousands of miles away from any severely affected country?

Close all the borders, abandon the thousands of Irish citizens all over Europe. Militarise the border with the north, at a time early enough to stop the virus (which we now know was in Europe in December), which means the public certainly wouldn't support it and who knows what reactions there might have been from the more unsavoury elements up there.

Then you somehow achieve that, without impacting any of our supply chains which are entirely built around open borders with Europe and the UK, then somehow we can just return to normal now despite there still being hundreds of thousands of cases all around us?

Do you really think it's a complete coincidence that the government that coped best with this virus also happens to be in the country most isolated from the rest of the world? A complete coincidence?

It's a complete coincidence that Italy, Spain, France and the UK have all been severely affected due entirely to policy, despite their mix of political systems, of left and right wing governments and of different cultures, and nothing to do with their geographical proximity?

There are countries that are doing well. Germany, Austria, Portugal, Ireland. We're not completely unaffected but we're keeping the damage to a minimum despite being located near ground zero. Being New Zealand was never going to be possible and anyone with the slightest bit of intelligence can see that.

Such blatant spin. Seriously what interest do you serve in trying to not compare. It's pretty simple. One was closed, one was not.

• NZ closed border to all foreign citizens and imposed 2 week quarantine on those returning. We gave out leaflets.
• Ports were not closed to goods.

cnocbui

cnocbui wrote: »

Australia.

Less than 500km from Indonesia and PNG v NZ 2000km from Australia

gabeeg

gabeeg wrote: »

They basically stopped flights from China on the 3rd of Feb.

And how many cases do we think arrived here from China, as opposed to elsewhere?

cnocbui

gabeeg wrote: »

I have the slightest bit of intelligence and I disagree.

We squandered weeks at the beginning of this crisis, whereas they acted fast.
Anyone with the slightest bit of intelligence can see that.

Lest we forget the protracted dithering about cancelling St Patrick's day.

gabeeg

Deleted User wrote: »

And how many cases do we think arrived here from China, as opposed to elsewhere?

Well China was their big threat, and they dealt with it.

Our lot didn't even put out a travel advisory for Cheltenham. They said it was grand.

cnocbui

cnocbui wrote: »

Lest we forget the protracted dithering about cancelling St Patrick's day.

What was the impact of that - it was always going to be cancelled and it was cancelled. When it was done was immaterial

caveat emptor

Deleted User wrote: »

When should we have closed borders? There were likely hundreds or possibly thousands of people with the virus here prior to March 1st. New Zealand did not close until March 19th, and the numbers of people arriving here after this date was minuscule.

All you need is one infected arriving. and doing a Gordon Ramsey style quarantine to kick off another chain reaction.

assuming a doubling time 3 days and an r0 of 2. one infected arriving then would result in ..............

• 32768 cases today.
• 10 % hospitalisation rate. 3 thousand in hospital.
• .5% CRF = 150 dead

Exponentials bite you in the arse.

Of course our interventions lowered the Ro number so luckily that would not be the case.

We are going for herd immunity over a longer time frame.

gabeeg

gabeeg wrote: »

Well China was their big threat, and they dealt with it.

Our lot didn't even put out a travel advisory for Cheltenham. They said it was grand.

Who said it was grand?

caveat emptor

caveat emptor wrote: »

All you need is one infected arriving. and doing a Gordon Ramsey style quarantine to kick off another chain reaction.

assuming a doubling time 3 days and an r0 of 2. one infected arriving then would result in ..............

• 32768 cases today.
• 10 % hospitalisation rate. 3 thousand in hospital.
• .5% CRF = 150 dead

Exponentials bite you in the arse.

Of course our interventions lowered the Ro number so luckily that would not be the case.

We are going for herd immunity over a longer time frame.

Or hundreds of people mingling with passengers who have just departed a direct flight from Wuhan at Dubai airport?

cnocbui

Deleted User wrote: »

What was the impact of that - it was always going to be cancelled and it was cancelled. When it was done was immaterial

It was only cancelled because certain municipal authorities took unilateral action, like Cork, and cancelled. The central government reluctantly caved in to a virtual fait accompli. It's cancellation wasn't a certainty and the decision wasn't really made by the central government, it was imposed on them.

caveat emptor

caveat emptor wrote: »

All you need is one infected arriving. and doing a Gordon Ramsey style quarantine to kick off another chain reaction.

assuming a doubling time 3 days and an r0 of 2. one infected arriving then would result in ..............

• 32768 cases today.
• 10 % hospitalisation rate. 3 thousand in hospital.
• .5% CRF = 150 dead

Exponentials bite you in the arse.

Of course our interventions lowered the Ro number so luckily that would not be the case.

We are going for herd immunity over a longer time frame.

We know based on hospital admissions and the testing backlog that we spiked between the 20th and 30th March, which means completely closing the border vs 95% reduction in arrivals and instruction to self quarantine for 14 days made zero difference to the cases and deaths. So you can talk about exponents all you like, but in the real world all the evidence is that it was those who arrived back prior to any restrictions that caused the issues, not a handful of people when the epidemic was already here.

All New Zealand did prior to Ireland was stop fights from China, which for us was a moot point as there were none here anyway.

cnocbui

Deleted User wrote: »

Less than 500km from Indonesia and PNG v NZ 2000km from Australia

Well Perth is the most isolated city on the planet.

cnocbui

cnocbui wrote: »

It was only cancelled because certain municipal authorities took unilateral action, like Cork, and cancelled. The central government reluctantly caved in to a virtual fait accompli. It's cancellation wasn't a certainty and the decision wasn't really made by the central government, it was imposed on them.

Of course it was going to be cancelled. They just did not want to announce restrictions too early. It appeared to be an imposed decision because of earlier unilateral action.

caveat emptor

Deleted User wrote: »

We know based on hospital admissions and the testing backlog that we spiked between the 20th and 30th March, which means completely closing the border vs 95% reduction in arrivals and instruction to self quarantine for 14 days made zero difference to the cases and deaths. So you can talk about exponents all you like, but in the real world all the evidence is that it was those who arrived back prior to any restrictions that caused the issues, not a handful of people when the epidemic was already here.

All New Zealand did prior to Ireland was stop fights from China, which for us was a moot point as there were none here anyway.

Nothing to see here so. Yeah there is nothing we could have done.
Have to go now I'm just in the middle of booking my weekend break to London. I fancy a bit of break. Life is too short anyway.

Hopefully I don't come back with more than I left! Wonder how many cases that will cause if I return just when restrictions are easing.........

seamus

rovers_runner wrote: »

- €350 parachute payment which created a huge hole in public finances on top of the uncontrollable factors (slowdown in trade/economy, Health costs)

- Closure of schools for months longer than was required (Sept opening rather than late May or early June)

- Prematurely deferring the leaving cert (set in motion the problems with planning and lead to outright cancellation)

- Cocooning the over 65s for a period longer than was beneficial leading to other health or well being issues down the line

- Paying the private hospitals for space they are not using in an effort to eventually draw them into a partnership which will end up having the majority of the public pay on the double for healthcare (taxes to fund partnership and health insurance to cover private options)

For the most part people will recognise that these measures were taken in the interests of preserving life, based on the best available information at the time. Expecting perfection in decision-making is not reasinable and the Irish public do not place short-term financial stability above public health.

Aside from a few malcontents who think that the economy is the most important thing in the world, nobody is going to care about the covid payment, the private hospital payments or the fact that the kids missed out on 3 months of school. These are small things in the grand scheme with no long-term impacts.

gabeeg

Deleted User wrote: »

All New Zealand did prior to Ireland was stop fights from China, which for us was a moot point as there were none here anyway.

You're still right at the beginning. Exciting to see

Gynoid

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Belgium reports 323 new deaths which would make that their highest daily toll since, I think, the 19th of April.

The country has suffered a lot but at least they have been straight from the start with their reporting of deaths in environments outside hospitals. Particularly compared to some other countries we could mention!

I wonder how Belgium has suffered so badly. 11 million people, about twice our population, but nearly 9000 deaths. It's a bit of a horror story that surprisingly gets little enough attention - well, okay, attention that I personally have noticed.

caveat emptor

caveat emptor wrote: »

Nothing to see here so. Yeah there is nothing we could have done.
Have to go now I'm just in the middle of booking my weekend break to London. I fancy a bit of break. Life is too short anyway.

Hopefully I don't come back with more than I left! Wonder how many cases that will cause if I return just when restrictions are easing.........

You do run the risk however of being checked on by the Gardaí when you return to make sure that you are where you have stated that you will be (on the form you fill in at arrivals) at any point within the next 14 days. I don’t know what the fine is for not being isolating at home when they come calling, or how actively they carry out the checks, but it is part of the process for arrivals into Ireland.

Has anyone any experience of whether the AGS are actively doing these checks?

caveat emptor

Caption competition....

What could go wrong?



https://www.ryanair.com/content/dam/ryanair/help-centre-pdfs/Covid-19_Update_140420.pdf

dfx-

caveat emptor wrote: »

I just did. Deal with it.

Even then, it remains a pointless comparison.

We'll move on to somewhere else next week. It was Austria and Czech Republic last week.

mandrake04

Deleted User wrote: »

That’s an irrational fear in my view, given that the trajectory of the virus in every EU country is going the right way. And I don’t see our government going against the EU with respect to border control.

It’s not like people will be travelling tomorrow, other than essential trips where families are spread across borders, as nothing is open anywhere. We are talking the summer at the earliest, and even then will be a slow start.

That's exactly right no one is travelling tomorrow because they are all locked down at home trying to figure out if they be able to visit family and friends within the next couple of months and your talking about holidays to Italy and Spain?

Was it not people at ski holidays, Cheltenham and Italian visitors that caused the current mess to begin with?

Its every man country for themselves, tbh I cant see Germany been very open when they get their cases under control.. I doubt their people will tripping off to Spain and Italy or any of these other basket case countries with 1000-2000 cases per day to undo their hard work on testing and lock down.

Harris already said overseas travel 'unlikely' and if you look at the dithering and pussyfooting around breaking the news about extending lockdown when they say unlikely that means they are seriously saying summer and travel is fucking cancelled and you better get used to the idea.

caveat emptor

Deleted User wrote: »

You do run the risk however of being checked on by the Gardaí when you return to make sure that you are where you have stated (on the form you fill in at arrivals) at any point within the next 14 days. I don’t know what the fine is for not being isolating at home when they come calling, or how actively they carry out the checks, but it is part of the process for arrivals into Ireland.

Has anyone any experience of whether the AGS are actively doing these checks?

Good point. I'd say non existent. Considering they don't come if you are being burgled. No offence to AGS, they don't have the resources.

Also I'll be well within my rights to go for a supremacs. Pop in to B and Q once opened. Go for a game of golf. Visit my family etc. Incubation period is 5 days etc. I'd say a lot could go wrong.

Gynoid

rovers_runner wrote: »

As for cocooning, it's not an extra week or two, it's already 2 months and it will be another 3 if the CMO and Govt get their way.
Five months in isolation for some single/widowed pensioners.....:(

They are not in isolation. That is hyperbole. Older people can go for walks, chat to friends and family from a safe distance. There are a lot of funný photos in my extended family of the older crew the other side of windows pretending to be in prison or doing jail breaks My mother is a widow who lives alone. The regular daily chats to people passing on the road keep her well supplied with company and gossip. Not to mention the woman must never leave down the phone. The older people were asked to stay home because it might be much harder on them if they caught covid which the medical stats prove. My elder neighbour was just saying to me from over the fence of her garden that she is happy at home as she dreads getting that damn blasted illness.

caveat emptor

Deleted User wrote: »

That’s an irrational fear in my view, given that the trajectory of the virus in every EU country is going the right way. And I don’t see our government going against the EU with respect to border control.

It’s not like people will be travelling tomorrow, other than essential trips where families are spread across borders, as nothing is open anywhere. We are talking the summer at the earliest, and even then will be a slow start.

Define essential?
I essentially need a break from this. I'm in a young age bracket and less likely to be a burden on the system.
I found some great deals on airbnb from distressed short term landlords.
Who's gonna stop me?

mandrake04

mandrake04 wrote: »

That's exactly right no one is travelling tomorrow because they are all locked down at home trying to figure out if they be able to visit family and friends within the next couple of months and your talking about holidays to Italy and Spain?

Was it not people at ski holidays, Cheltenham and Italian visitors that caused the current mess to begin with?

Its every man country for themselves, tbh I cant see Germany been very open when they get their cases under control.. I doubt their people will tripping off to Spain and Italy or any of these other basket case countries with 1000-2000 cases per day to undo their hard work on testing and lock down.

Harris already said overseas travel 'unlikely' and if you look at the dithering and pussyfooting around breaking the news about extending lockdown when they say unlikely that means they are seriously saying summer and travel is fucking cancelled and you better get used to the idea.

Easy tiger!!!! We’ll see. I think that EU / UK borders will remain relatively open by late summer as restrictions are relaxed. My personal interest is in Ireland-UK travel as I have a home and family and work in both places. I certainly don’t see closing of borders within the Common Travel Area.