Covid19 Part XVII-24,841 in ROI (1,639 deaths) 4,679 in NI (518 deaths)(28/05)Read OP

is_that_so

Hector Savage wrote: »

The clear mask is just one aspect of all this, just look at the state of the lynch mob after cummings too, about people screaming at others in shops not wearing masks (one case someone took off their mask to scream at them :rolleyes: )

One thing is this pandemic thought me is how uncivil we still are, from the panic buying at the start to this social shaming for anyone thinking for themselves.

Part of this I agree with, Cummings is a completely unpleasant ass but we have certainly discovered things during this about people in general and those we know, some of it quite surprising.

yourdeadwright

Hector Savage wrote: »

and people will still defend China and lick their arse....

So Ireland are the 13th worst country in the world but somehow we all think we done great ,

Jim_Hodge

Hector Savage wrote: »

Bollocks, they want this sh1t forever, they want to virtue signal and are power hungry little nazis...

Jesus wept! What planet are you on?

Time people took a long look at stuff they're posting before pressing Submit.

Hector Savage

is_that_so wrote: »

Part of this I agree with, Cummings is a completely unpleasant ass but we have certainly discovered things during this about people in general and those we know, some of it quite surprising.

Yeah, look he's a hypocrite he shouldn't have done what he did .... but what damage was done exactly ?

Imagine you were witnessing the crowds hounding him and had no idea what he did, weren't paying any attention to the news lately - you'd think he was a child murderer or something

owlbethere

https://www.corkbeo.ie/news/local-news/cork-disease-expert-says-lockdown-18306802

Cork disease expert says lockdown should stay for another four months. He says the road map for lifting restrictions will guarantee a second wave before we even reach phase 5 of the road map.

What do people think of this?

owlbethere

owlbethere wrote: »

https://www.corkbeo.ie/news/local-news/cork-disease-expert-says-lockdown-18306802

Cork disease expert says lockdown should stay for another four months. He says the road map for lifting restrictions will guarantee a second wave before we even reach phase 5 of the road map.

What do people think of this?

That's its already been discussed on at least half a dozen separate occasions in the past 24 hours.
And that while I can see where he coming from, but it is unworkable as 10 weeks is the maximum anyone could take at the maximum level and too late, given the links with UK and mainland Europe who have already moved

Strumms

Hector Savage wrote: »

Yeah, look he's a hypocrite he shouldn't have done what he did .... but what damage was done exactly ?

Imagine you were witnessing the crowds hounding him and had no idea what he did, weren't paying any attention to the news lately - you'd think he was a child murderer or something

The damage was when you have any person who in a position of authority and responsibility and instead of leading by example in the worst global health crisis in modern times for this planet that so far has killed over 346,000 globally they are flouting and disregarding their own advise / instructions ... because they can’t be arsed.

Strong, responsible leadership and accountability comes through leading by example, words said don’t mean diddly unless backed up by actions. We’ve all or most of us seen leaders / management in our workplaces, giving out about say people taking the piss at the AM break, supposed to be 15 minutes he or she is between making the tea and having a fag and a chat gone for 25... you just think ‘fûckin idiot’... and the respect for every aspect of them as a person and leader evaporates..

Same scenario here. Effective and responsible leaders don’t just shoot their mouths off and demand of others.. they demand from themselves in the same manner, they LEAD by example... this twat simply doesn’t seem capable.

eagle eye

Deleted User wrote:

That's its already been discussed on at least half a dozen separate occasions in the past 24 hours. And that while I can see where he coming from, but it is unworkable as 10 weeks is the maximum anyone could take at the maximum level and too late, given the links with UK and mainland Europe who have already moved

Worst possible thing that can happen from an economic perspective is to have to lock down again. We are better to stay in a lockdown than open up and lock down again.

growleaves

Strumms wrote: »

The damage was when you have any person who in a position of authority and responsibility and instead of leading by example in the worst global health crisis in modern times for this planet that so far has killed over 346,000 globally they are flouting and disregarding their own advise / instructions ... because they can’t be arsed.

Strong, responsible leadership and accountability comes through leading by example, words said don’t mean diddly unless backed up by actions. We’ve all or most of us seen leaders / management in our workplaces, giving out about say people taking the piss at the AM break, supposed to be 15 minutes he or she is between making the tea and having a fag and a chat gone for 25... you just think ‘fûckin idiot’... and the respect for every aspect of them as a person and leader evaporates..

Same scenario here. Effective and responsible leaders don’t just shoot their mouths off and demand of others.. they demand from themselves in the same manner, they LEAD by example... this twat simply doesn’t seem capable.

The issue isn't whether Cummings has lost trust and respect but whether he should be hounded by a mob of hysterical cowards who have lost their marbles.

This mob emotionalism can now be directed against anyone.

hotmail.com

owlbethere wrote: »

https://www.corkbeo.ie/news/local-news/cork-disease-expert-says-lockdown-18306802

Cork disease expert says lockdown should stay for another four months. He says the road map for lifting restrictions will guarantee a second wave before we even reach phase 5 of the road map.

What do people think of this?

So many businesses could go bust if this happens and thousands will be put on the dole.

Of course if the government agree to pay rent and wages indefinitely, the businesses will survive but this will lead to cuts and tax increases to pay for it.

Drumpot

Strumms wrote: »

The damage was when you have any person who in a position of authority and responsibility and instead of leading by example in the worst global health crisis in modern times for this planet that so far has killed over 346,000 globally they are flouting and disregarding their own advise / instructions ... because they can’t be arsed.

Strong, responsible leadership and accountability comes through leading by example, words said don’t mean diddly unless backed up by actions. We’ve all or most of us seen leaders / management in our workplaces, giving out about say people taking the piss at the AM break, supposed to be 15 minutes he or she is between making the tea and having a fag and a chat gone for 25... you just think ‘fûckin idiot’... and the respect for every aspect of them as a person and leader evaporates..

Same scenario here. Effective and responsible leaders don’t just shoot their mouths off and demand of others.. they demand from themselves in the same manner, they LEAD by example... this twat simply doesn’t seem capable.

The older I get, the more surprised I get by how easy mass amounts of people can be manipulated and how apathy can really be damaging by allowing these snake oil salesmen like Trump and Johnson do what they do.

I mean both countries have had much more significant damage done as a result of their governments response to COVID. This is irrefutable and yet their supporters blindly defend them and take an extremely belligerent approach against facts.

If I was ever in doubt that humans cant be irrational/delusional on a mass scale this has been a timely reminder. It also concerns me as this sort of illogical stance can lead to wars. I think these lads are far more dangerous then we imagine, we mock them but they are just big talkers with little substance that is a massive problem when the countries get into massive problems.

I don’t find Trump or Johnson particularly good orators but they do appear to be good at appealing to their target audience. Somebody posted “sure what does it matter?”, it matters because it all affects us. Having these clowns increase xenophobia and Push a divide between countries is very dangerous in the long term. We have been fortunate to not see a world war in our time but these sort of people are the ones who lay the foundation for wars in the future with their reckless rhetoric.

Strumms

growleaves wrote: »

The issue isn't whether Cummings has lost trust and respect but whether he should be hounded by a mob of hysterical cowards who have lost their marbles.

This mob emotionalism can now be directed against anyone.

Is he being hounded ? I don’t think so.

People are calling for his head as a result of behavior that is well below the standards of the office and responsibility he holds. A lot of people are correctly expressing this. It’s a democracy and that is allowed, people are allowed to express that view while holding him accountable.

People are not hysterical and no examples of cowardice, people are simply outraged by his behavior and rightly so.

He is being paid by the public to ‘lead’. He has failed when it mattered most and he’s been pulled up and held to account. Good on them.

Plumbthedepths

owlbethere wrote: »

https://www.corkbeo.ie/news/local-news/cork-disease-expert-says-lockdown-18306802

Cork disease expert says lockdown should stay for another four months. He says the road map for lifting restrictions will guarantee a second wave before we even reach phase 5 of the road map.

What do people think of this?

If I told you what I thought my account would be banned. Suffice to say the idiot is away with the faeries.

Gregor Samsa

eagle eye wrote: »

Worst possible thing that can happen from an economic perspective is to have to lock down again. We are better to stay in a lockdown than open up and lock down again.

Why do you think that?

Imaging having to swim a 50M pool. You take a breath, stick your head in the water and exhale for two stokes, then take a breath the next 2 strokes. Repeat until you've got to the other end.

You don't hold your breath, see how far you can get, then splash the rest of the way with your head out of the water.

I'm certainly not saying we need to, but economically it would be possible to get into a rhythm of one month on, one month off if we had to. It would be arguably preferable to an indeterminate lockdown OR an open free-for all if this was going to be with us long-term.

growleaves

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

If I told you what I thought my account would be banned. Suffice to say the idiot is away with the faeries.

An expert psychiatrist should be asked to give their opinion regarding the effects of six months of enforced social isolation.

Plumbthedepths

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

Why do you think that?

Imaging having to swim a 50M pool. You take a breath, stick your head in the water and exhale for two stokes, then take a breath the next 2 strokes. Repeat until you've got to the other end.

You don't hold your breath, see how far you can get, then splash the rest of the way with your head out of the water.

I'm certainly not saying we need to, but economically it would be possible to get into a rhythm of one month on, one month off if we had to. It would be preferable to an indeterminate lockdown OR an open free-for all if this was going to be with us long-term.

Economically if one was to do what you suggest, you would destroy any confidence that business has.
No offence but absolute economic illiteracy.

Gregor Samsa

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Economically if one was to do what you suggest, you would destroy any confidence that business has.
No offence but absolute economic illiteracy.

Confidence, in the economic sense, is based upon predictability. It would have a negative effect on the economy for sure – all reactions to this problem do. But it would allow for more confidence than prolonged lockdown.

Plumbthedepths

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

Confidence, in the economic sense, is based upon predictability. It would have a negative effect on the economy for sure – all reactions to this problem do. But it would allow for more confidence than prolonged lockdown.

Repeated opening and closing of business would destroy them, its incredible someone could even think this is a workable solution.

fr336

Hector Savage wrote: »

Bollocks, they want this sh1t forever, they want to virtue signal and are power hungry little nazis...

Sick of the Nazi term thrown around like it's nothing. Look up the Nazis and remind yourself of what they did and society under them. I don't think it compares to being advised to stay at home as much as possible to avoid a killer virus and the ensuing economic impact if hundreds of thousands or even millions ended up dead. You really think governments want lock downs? They worship the economy. They worship the "freedom" you think you have to consume, consume, consume. And you think it's reminisent of the Nazis to be able to go to the park, do shopping, and spend time with your family. Talk about first world problems. Most people have no idea about freedom they think freedom is convenience to do whatever you want wherever you want regardless of the impact on others. It's really boring. The government couldn't give a hoot what you do in your spare time as long as you're buying.

New Home

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Repeated opening and closing of business would destroy them, its incredible someone could even think this is a workable solution.

Seasonal places do.

tobefrank321

owlbethere wrote: »

https://www.corkbeo.ie/news/local-news/cork-disease-expert-says-lockdown-18306802

Cork disease expert says lockdown should stay for another four months. He says the road map for lifting restrictions will guarantee a second wave before we even reach phase 5 of the road map.

What do people think of this?

Anyone who says lockdown should continue for another 4 months should be obliged to sacrifice their salary and live on social welfare payments for those 4 months. These people are not living in the real world unfortunately.

Some epidemiologists and experts would have us living in lockdown permanently if they could. There's never a low enough number of cases for them. If we got it down to 1 case a day, they'd say we need to wait until its at 0 cases. If it was at 0 cases for a month, they'd come up with some other reason to maintain lockdown.

Gregor Samsa

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Repeated opening and closing of business would destroy them, its incredible someone could even think this is a workable solution.

Well, explain it to me then, instead of just saying no.

Businesses open and close every weekday. They take weekends off. in some countries, huge swathes of the economy completley close down for all of August every year. Many business sectors only run for a part of a year, every year. Explain how an economy couldn't adapt to regular, defined and expected cycles of full and partial productivity, and how this is would be more damaging that comletley closing down for an indeterminate length of time.

Plumbthedepths

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

Well, explain it to me then, instead of just saying no.

Businesses open and close every weekday. They take weekends off. in some countries, huge swathes of the economy completley close down for all of August every year. Many business sectors only run for a part of a year, every year. Explain how an economy couldn't adapt to regular, defined and expected cycles of full and partial productivity, and how this is would be more damaging that comletley closing down for an indeterminate length of time.

Many businesses operate on a 24 hour cycle 7 days a week also. What you are proposing is idiotic.

New Home

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Many businesses operate on a 24 hour cycle 7 days a week also. What you are proposing is idiotic.

Your eloquence does you credit.

Plumbthedepths

New Home wrote: »

Seasonal places do.

Yep, in tourist specific areas.

Gregor Samsa

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Many businesses operate on a 24 hour cycle 7 days a week also. What you are proposing is idiotic.

So you're saying that business that up until all this happened operate on a 24/7 cycle would be better off with an indeterminate lockdown where they can't operate, than a regular cycle where they can operate some of the time, and then not other times. (and just to be clear, we're obviously talking about non-essential business here, not stuff like power stations and food supplies, because those things never shut down). How could doing no business be better than doing some business?

Take a hair salon for example. Which would be better for them: indeterminate lockdown with no business of between 6 months and 2 years, or the ability to fully open every second month.

And all you can provide as way of explanation for this is to claim that it's idiotic. No actual argument.

It's getting to the point that I'm beginning to suspect that you actually haven't put much thought into your position.

Plumbthedepths

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

So you're saying that business that up until all this happened operate on a 24/7 cycle would be better off with an indeterminate lockdown where they can't operate, than a regular cycle where they can operate some of the time, and then not other times. (and just to be clear, we're obviously talking about non-essential business here, not stuff like power stations and food supplies, because those things never shut down). How could doing no business be better than doing some business?

And all you can provide as way of explanation for this is to claim that it's idiotic. No actual argument.

It's getting to the point that I'm beginning to suspect that you actually haven't put much thought into your position.

I don't think its necessary to argue with an idiotic suggestion that will never get traction here as it's unworkable for both business and the state coffers.
Also anyone that thinks we will go back into lockdown in the future is also away with the faeries.

Mwengwe

owlbethere wrote: »

https://www.corkbeo.ie/news/local-news/cork-disease-expert-says-lockdown-18306802

Cork disease expert says lockdown should stay for another four months. He says the road map for lifting restrictions will guarantee a second wave before we even reach phase 5 of the road map.

What do people think of this?

Think anyone going on about 'four more years' needs to take an optimism pill

Agree that they're moving too fast with the 'phases' though.

Gregor Samsa

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I don't think its necessary to argue with an idiotic suggestion that will never get traction here as it's unworkable for both business and the state coffers.
Also anyone that thinks we will go back into lockdown in the future is also away with the faeries.

Ok, so you've got nothing. We'll leave it there so.

Drumpot

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Anyone who says lockdown should continue for another 4 months should be obliged to sacrifice their salary and live on social welfare payments for those 4 months. These people are not living in the real world unfortunately.

Some epidemiologists and experts would have us living in lockdown permanently if they could. There's never a low enough number of cases for them. If we got it down to 1 case a day, they'd say we need to wait until its at 0 cases. If it was at 0 cases for a month, they'd come up with some other reason to maintain lockdown.

So what happens if another virus arrives and it’s worse then COVID?

I can see both sides of the argument but what the people on the “what about economy” side of the debate don’t seem to grasp Is that we aren’t in control of the virus, only how we react to it. Trying to push open business and restart economies with a kinda different but same approach is such narrow minded thinking.

All the rules of financial and economical processes are invented by man so can be changed by man. But people (certainly backed those who are invested in it the most) appear to have an almost religious dogma with regards to how we should bend to what economies/capitalism needs, as opposed to fundamentally ask ourselves if maybe it’s a defunct and out of date way of the world being run.

It clearly is not fit for purpose, especially when you see countries try to encourage practises (schools opening, flights, pubs etc) that’s about finance not common sense. It’s also clear how easily people can be deluded based on the principle of money/capitalism that can override common sense to even protect ourselves (global warming etc). There’s a reason why scientists think one of the most likely ways there will be a mass extinction event is basically us killing ourselves. It’s a world where the loudest are followed and the wisest are usually ignored.

If we had any sense the serious questions would be asked “how do we change our way of living so that we can manage interruptions that we can’t control better?”. Instead we are stuck with the very narrow minded “the economy has to open up again” Type chatter.