Fianna Fail on 14%

Hamsterchops

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So why did you single out one side? All the violence was 'illegitimate' including that of the British.

Did I not say that I got the sense that Junkyard was defending the PIRA, hence my objection.

If Tom came on here defending the UFF no doubt I'd object to that odeous violence too, anyway, what's wrong with supporting the SDLPs brand of Northern Nationalism?

Junkyard Tom

markodaly wrote: »

I am of the opinion that we might have achieved independence via the Home Rule

Btw Garret Fitzgerald agreed that Independence might have been put in deep freeze if Home Rule succeeded as the British Welfare state would have created a sort of national dependency.

irishecho.com

Granted these are counterfactual views, but we might have turned out as an all Ireland version of the Troubles-era North. Horrifying.

FrancieBrady

Shefwedfan wrote: »

If they are only on trend close to election then we are 5 years out from an election by the looks of it so they are probably a million miles out


Your grasping at straws, one minute you are saying they over estimate then the next youa re saying it is relevant


The only relevant poll is an election, it happened in Feb, FF won the most seats and look to be forming a government. Hurrraaahhhhhh

You do not wish to discuss that Michael Martin MAY be the most distrusted leader on the island. Fair enough.

*BTW FF won the same amount of seats as SF in the actual election. They have more seats because the already elected CC bolstered their numbers by one. The current electorate had no say in that. The CC hasn't faced the electorate since 2016 in fact. It's a spurious claim to say FF won the most seats therefore.

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Did I not say that I got the sense that Junkyard was defending the PIRA, hence my objection.

If Tom came on here defending the UFF no doubt I'd object to that odeous violence too, anyway, what's wrong with supporting the SDLPs brand of Northern Nationalism?

You are pretending that your posting history does not exist. You routinely pick out one side for criticism. If you wish to deny that, knock yourself out. I won't divert the thread proving you wrong.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with supporting the SDLP. 'Northern Nationalism' is an odd contradictory turn of phrase though, you may need to review that one.

Shefwedfan

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You do not wish to discuss that Michael Martin MAY be the most distrusted leader on the island. Fair enough.

It's another rabbit hole you want to go down. How exactly are you going to qualify if MM is or isn't?



Please explain as you keep going back to the same question.



* nobody cares :P

Hamsterchops

:eek:

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You are pretending that your posting history does not exist. You routinely pick out one side for criticism. If you wish to deny that, knock yourself out. I won't divert the thread proving you wrong.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with supporting the SDLP. 'Northern Nationalism' is an odd contradictory turn of phrase though, you may need to review that one.

I keep picking out one side because you guys keep supporting one side, namely the Provisional IRA side, and I'll always have an answer for that.

If 'you guys' were on here constantly supporting the UFF or the UDF or the Paras, then I would have a posting history of condemnation for that too

There are no supporters of Loyalist violence on here, hence I don't have a history in attacking them.

Yourself & Tom seem to have a soft spot for Republican violence, I don't.

Shefwedfan

Edgware wrote: »

The Republic can't afford a United Ireland if it has to spend millions defending it from a Loyalist backlash. However there are enough agriculture, tourism, foreigni investment etc there to support the country and have a high standard of living if the different political interests could agree on a way forward.
However I don't think that agreement is there. Just look at the furore caused by one crowd because a band marches down "their" Street once a year or the other crowd start a riot because the Tricolour is attached to a pole on the Queen's Highway

It's a hornets nest up their. Best to leave the UK to deal with it. With no border it makes no difference to us in the South. Most of the nordies have no problems coming down and working on sites in Ireland.


We have the rugby players, soccer well nobody cares anymore. Plus I doubt anyone would want to get into bed with the FAI.



Why would anyone want change?

Junkyard Tom

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Only for Bertie the troubles would still be on-going. He was critical to pulling that deal together. If SF had it's way the Good Friday would never have happened, only for Bertie and Clinton running the show.....

I have a lot of respect for Bertie for his efforts but it took a sort of 'great coalescence' for the GFA to come about. Albert Reynolds doesn't get nearly enough recognition either. John Hume is the individual who should get the most credit though.

Shefwedfan

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I have a lot of respect for Bertie for his efforts but it took a sort of 'great coalescence' for the GFA to come about. Albert Reynolds doesn't get nearly enough recognition either. John Hume is the individual who should get the most credit though.

John Hume was a great man, I did forget to leave him out and that was my error.

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

:eek:

I keep picking out one side because you guys keep supporting one side, namely the Provisional IRA side, and I'll always have an answer for that.

If 'you guys' were on here constantly supporting the UFF or the UDF or the Paras, then I would have a posting history of condemnation for that too

There are no supporters of Loyalist violence on here, hence I don't have a history in attacking them.

Yourself & Tom seem to have a soft spot for Republican violence, I don't.

What a shame that lofty rush to the high moral ground isn't supported by your history of posting on the UI thread for instance.

You are a chancer, I'll give you that.

I have always said the violence in the north was wrong...all of it.

IAMAMORON

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The election of 1918 wasn't a mandate to start a campaign of terror against the forces of law-and-order unless you considered the forces of the state illegitimate and if that's the case then what magic dust did they sprinkle on themselves to create legitimacy after then?

It could be argued that the forces of the British state provoked the IRA in 1969 far more than they did in 1919 and that state was a gerrymandered, sectarian, shithole that had even less legitimacy than its precedent.

I have always felt that the war of independence had its origins in the 1st world war. A lot of volunteers had not been to the front in France and the ones that had were sitting around looking at the state of things. Arms were everywhere, nearly every family had access to guns and to compound this families all over had lost loved ones fighting in either the war or the rising or where returning from internment. Factor in a struggling post war economy and you had a lot of idle Irish hands looking for something to do. The gun was always an option.

Throw in the actions of the tans and thing escalated quick enough. But access to arms and bullets has to have been a factor in widespread war in Ireland until 1923.

Hamsterchops

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What a shame that lofty rush to the high moral ground isn't supported by your history of posting on the UI thread for instance.

You are a chancer, I'll give you that.

I have always said the violence in the north was wrong...all of it.

And if all else fails, call me a chancer :rolleyes:

Sorry mate but I don't support a United Ireland by force, and even without force I can't agree to it unless the majority want it, as per the Good Friday Agreement, and even then, there are questions like can we afford to pick up the annual tab?

Your posting history is fascinating too!

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

And if all else fails, call me a chancer :rolleyes:

Sorry mate but I don't support a United Ireland by force, and even without force I can't agree to it unless the majority want it, as per the Good Friday Agreement, and even then, there are questions like can we afford to pick up the annual tab?

Your posting history is fascinating too!

Who supports a UI by 'force'?

Nobody either here or in the real world that I know, supports a UI by force.

FrancieBrady

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I have always felt that the war of independence had its origins in the 1st world war. A lot of volunteers had not been to the front in France and the ones that had were sitting around looking at the state of things. Arms were everywhere, nearly every family had access to guns and to compound this families all over had lost loved ones fighting in either the war or the rising or where returning from internment. Factor in a struggling post war economy and you had a lot of idle Irish hands looking for something to do. The gun was always an option.

Throw in the actions of the tans and thing escalated quick enough. But access to arms and bullets has to have been a factor in widespread war in Ireland until 1923.

Are you forgetting that Carson re-introduced the gun to Irish politics long before WW!?

Hamsterchops

I've just realised, this thread is meant to be about Fianna Fail @14%...

Just saying like...

Shefwedfan

^^^^^

Like every thread it gets dragged down to SF level politics....

I go back to the poll it is irrelevant. So back in March it was
SF 26%
FF 21%
FG 20%

Now today we are saying it is
FG 35%
SF 27%
FF 14%

Reading the link here the original numbers are wrong: https://www.redcresearch.ie/voters-turn-back-to-fine-gael-in-time-of-crisis/
FG 34%
SF 28%
FF 18%

So where is the 14%????

IAMAMORON

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Are you forgetting that Carson re-introduced the gun to Irish politics long before WW!?

Both sides got tooled up Francie. But my point is that arms were everywhere and also war was everywhere. It was a common enough thing for families to be losing young ones and letters sent home and the likes. Death and war were commonplace. People were numb to it. Such a normality made it more tolerable, in a very nasty reality.

Floppybits

Hamsterchops wrote: »

I've just realised, this thread is meant to be about Fianna Fail @14%...

Just saying like...

Well isn't this what happens on these threads, criticise a party and then the party supporters are on and start attacking another party and around and around in circles we go.

I don't support any party, I can see good and bad in most of the parties in the country except FF. I just don't know where they stand? I feel they don't have much talent in the party, maybe it is because its all about Martin, you rarely see or hear from Dara Calleary, when was the last time he made an appearance other than to stand behind Martin. I am only using him as an example but you could say the same about the others.

Floppybits

You would expect the swing to FG though through this COVID-19 emergency. They are the ones that are constantly in the media and the other parties have all taken a back seat. Its as simple as that, as soon as this emergency is over and the housing and health care come back into the focus then you would expect FG's ratings to drop.

As for FF I just don't see what they have to offer.

Shefwedfan

The bigger problem here is the initial post, if based on the RedC poll is actually incorrect and FF is running at 18% and not 14%......

Hamsterchops

18% how so?

Floppybits

Hamsterchops wrote: »

18% how so?

Possibly the margin of error?

IAMAMORON

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The bigger problem here is the initial post, if based on the RedC poll is actually incorrect and FF is running at 18% and not 14%......

Is that Red C poll not from the 30th of March? That is 5 weeks ago?

FrancieBrady

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The bigger problem here is the initial post, if based on the RedC poll is actually incorrect and FF is running at 18% and not 14%......

Still the only one of the main parties to be losing significant ground. (and I think you are quoting the wrong poll)

Shefwedfan

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Is that Red C poll not from the 30th of March? That is 5 weeks ago?

No the 5 week old one is at 21% as per my post

Shefwedfan

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Still the only one of the main parties to be losing significant ground. (and I think you are quoting the wrong poll)

Read the link.....

IAMAMORON

Shefwedfan wrote: »

No the 5 week old one is at 21% as per my post

You're flying low, check again , it is 14%.

James Brown

Hamsterchops wrote: »

So Junkyard, for some reason I sense from you more than a little hankering for the good old days, when the armalite, stakeknife, & semtex were king :cool:

So with this in mind, here goes, specially for you.

There is no argument amongst all Irish & British parties (bar Sinn Fein) that the actions of the PIRA during the Troubles were unauthorised, evil and without our consent, hence their actions were not carried out in our name!

The Provos delt with anybody who got in their way (Protestant, Catholic, Unionist or Nationalist), all victims either had with their knee caps blown off, or their legs shredded (semtex), or sometimes even their heads were taken off (semtex again), other victims were made disappear, sometimes found years later with an extra hole in their skull.

Thankfully Adams has left the stage, leaving his bloody footprints as he went, leaving Mary Lou to take the movement to a higher level, however...

Mary Lou must now admit, that Adams PIRA campaign was nothing less than an unauthorised Terrorist campaign, waged without any consent from the Irish people.

Once SF acknowledge this (unlikely), then there might be talks with Fianna Fail, at some point in the distant future?

You obviously don't understand much. Why on earth would a defunct self professed army of freedom fighters do that? It would go against their whole reason for existing. What a stupid supposition. And to try use it in the manner which you have, like it's an embarrassing chink in the armour of politicians, many of whom had no dealings with the IRA is the height of being plain silly and childish.
There was a Good Friday Peace agreement, which it seems many in FG are willing to ignore to get a few little digs in. For comparison, FG's much vaunted Tan/RIC were legitimate...great bunch of lads....maybe not 'in our name!'.
Your post reads like a 1950's priest protesting a dinner dance ffs...

As for FF, 'tis there thread after all, read up on Haughey and arms smuggling.

Shefwedfan

IAMAMORON wrote: »

You're flying low, check again , it is 14%.

Maybe I am reading this wrong


For Fianna Fail the poll is even more complicated. On the one hand their drop in support to just 18% (a fall of 4% since the election) could be seized on by those against any grand coalition, to show what might happen to the party if they enter government with Fine Gael. On the other hand, those pressing to be part of government with Fine Gael, might argue that the party would benefit far more being seen to be part of the action, and is clearly suffering by being on the outside at the moment

Hamsterchops

Bowie wrote: »

You obviously don't understand much. Why on earth would a defunct self professed army of freedom fighters do that? It would go against their whole reason for existing. What a stupid supposition. And to try use it in the manner which you have, like it's an embarrassing chink in the armour of politicians, many of whom had no dealings with the IRA is the height of being plain silly and childish.
There was a Good Friday Peace agreement, which it seems many in FG are willing to ignore to get a few little digs in. For comparison, FG's much vaunted Tan/RIC were legitimate...great bunch of lads....maybe not 'in our name!'.
Your post reads like a 1950's priest protesting a dinner dance ffs...

As for FF, 'tis there thread after all, read up on Haughey and arms smuggling.

Bla. Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bunkum, another attempt at derailing this thread again!

Not falling for it this time