Fianna Fail on 14%

LuasSimon

Fianna Fail are on 14% in todays Sunday business Poll,
Michael Martin is certainly driving the party in to the ground, his hatred of nationalists has driven many voters out of the party to Sinn Fein. He comes across as a very bitter man on TV ( The Arlene Foster of the south ) , Should he and whats left of FF just merge into Fine Gael at this stage.

FG 35%
SF 27%
FF 14%
Green 7%
Labour 3%
Social Dem 3%
PBP 2%
Aontu 1%
Renua 1%
ind 8%

Fann Linn

They are about to merge.Just waiting for Eamonn Ryan to solemnise the marriage.

whippet

Considering we could be 5 years away from an election and the fact that he will more than likely get the top job soon these poll figures are totally irrelevant

LuasSimon

whippet wrote: »

Considering we could be 5 years away from an election and the fact that he will more than likely get the top job soon these poll figures are totally irrelevant

The way he comes across on telly FF will be on 4% in 5 years time !

CtevenSrowder

Why are people so obsessed with polls? They change from one week to the next. And we're likely 5 years away from another election. SO this poll is completely meaningless.

Muahahaha

LuasSimon wrote: »

The way he comes across on telly FF will be on 4% in 5 years time !

Funny you say that, after Leos speech on Friday RTE then switched to Michael Martin outside Leinster House who went on an uninterrupted 3 minute waffle with absolutely no coherent point. I couldnt beleive what I was hearing, he was barely finishing his sentences before spoofing into the next point which he wouldnt finish either. His hands were all over the place, it looked like he was on speed.

Fred Cryton

Call another election now Leo. It would be ridiculous in the extreme to allow Martin to swan in now as Taoiseach.

Shinners think they're going to gain seats but they may well go backwards if FG & FF collude/step aside for each other in certain constituencies.

Fred Cryton

LuasSimon wrote: »

Fianna Fail are on 14% in todays Sunday business Poll,
Michael Martin is certainly driving the party in to the ground, his hatred of nationalists has driven many voters out of the party to Sinn Fein. He comes across as a very bitter man on TV ( The Arlene Foster of the south ) , Should he and whats left of FF just merge into Fine Gael at this stage.

FG 35%
SF 27%
FF 14%
Green 7%
Labour 3%
Social Dem 3%
PBP 2%
Aontu 1%
Renua 1%
ind 8%

What are you on about. There's no evidence this has anything to do with nationalism. Believe it or not the majority don't give 2 figs about that northern statelet. His voters have gone to FG rather than SF.

antimatterx

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Call another election now Leo. It would be ridiculous in the extreme to allow Martin to swan in now as Taoiseach.

Shinners think they're going to gain seats but they may well go backward if FG & FF collude/step aside for each other in certain constituencies.

MM doesn't deserve to be Taoiseach just because of his longevity. Leo deserves a full 5-year term and I agree he needs to call another election.

H needs to be smart about it though. He needs to make it look as if his hand is being forced, and he's not capitalizing on the polls.

Fann Linn

antimatterx wrote: »

MM doesn't deserve to be Taoiseach just because of his longevity. Leo deserves a full 5-year term and I agree he needs to call another election.

H needs to be smart about it though. He needs to make it look as if his hand is being forced, and he's not capitalizing on the polls.

Cunning plan Baldrick.

mickdw

Whos call is it to go for another election?
All groups have equal opportunity to try to form a government.

McMurphy

Muahahaha wrote: »

Funny you say that, after Leos speech on Friday RTE then switched to Michael Martin outside Leinster House who went on an uninterrupted 3 minute waffle with absolutely no coherent point. I couldnt beleive what I was hearing, he was barely finishing his sentences before spoofing into the next point which he wouldnt finish either. His hands were all over the place, it looked like he was on speed.

Couldn't get this out of my head after reading the last sentence

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwDmg74rhCw

LuasSimon

Fred Cryton wrote: »

What are you on about. There's no evidence this has anything to do with nationalism. Believe it or not the majority don't give 2 figs about that northern statelet. His voters have gone to FG rather than SF.

Apart from giving out about Sinn Fein on tv does he say much else?
A lot of traditional FF supporters dont agree with his hatred of Sinn Fein and hes refusal to even discuss it, straight into bed with Fine Gael instead so he can be taoiseach.

Widdensushi

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Call another election now Leo. It would be ridiculous in the extreme to allow Martin to swan in now as Taoiseach.

Shinners think they're going to gain seats but they may well go backwards if FG & FF collude/step aside for each other in certain constituencies.

anyone calling an election when people aren't allowed to travel or see loved ones would not get on too well

Wanderer78

there wont be an election called, ffg will just plough on as usual, preventing any alternative government from being formed

Plumbthedepths

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Call another election now Leo. It would be ridiculous in the extreme to allow Martin to swan in now as Taoiseach.

Shinners think they're going to gain seats but they may well go backwards if FG & FF collude/step aside for each other in certain constituencies.

Fantastic idea during a pandemic . Lots of strangers calling to your home and large crowds heading to a polling booth. You sir are a genius.

IAMAMORON

Micheál needs to employ a personal charisma instructor. I would say the knives are out.

The reality is that FF are losing votes to SF. FG are gaining votes everywhere else.

Apart from Micheál being a 3 day old fish in a barrel, FF have no major woman in their party. They are leaking votes without a young vibrant female politician. SF obviously have Mary Lou and FG have McEntee or Jennifer Carroll.

FF don't have any, women don't identify with them anymore. That adds up to a lot of popularity and a lot of votes.

For starters Michaél needs to start thinking on his feat and fast. I would suggest a fairly rapidly rotating wheel of Taoiseach, 6 months max. The longer he is at the wheel the worse it will get for Fianna Fáil. If their popularity wains after he gets his go in charge he will really need to reconsider his position.

LuasSimon

A FG-SF government would be far more popular than a FG-FF government at this stage .

daheff

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Call another election now Leo. It would be ridiculous in the extreme to allow Martin to swan in now as Taoiseach.

Shinners think they're going to gain seats but they may well go backwards if FG & FF collude/step aside for each other in certain constituencies.

I don't know how we could stage an election now.... lockdown/isolation/social distancing etc. It'd be akin to throwing petrol on the fire

Wanderer78

LuasSimon wrote: »

A FG-SF government would be far more popular than a FG-FF government at this stage .

best of luck with getting those two together, ffg makes absolute sense

Rodney Bathgate

LuasSimon wrote: »

A FG-SF government would be far more popular than a FG-FF government at this stage .

No, it wouldn’t. Most FG voters do not want a coalition with SF. I certainly wouldn’t vote for them if that was a possibility.

Fr Tod Umptious

Wanderer78 wrote: »

there wont be an election called, ffg will just plough on as usual, preventing any alternative government from being formed

FG and FF are in the process of trying to form a government, they need a third party or a raft of independent TDs
Their is no guarantee they will have success getting either, certainly not for the 5 year term.

So they are not ploughing away with anything, it's very much out of their hands right now.

At the same time no one is preventing SF from finding the numbers to form a government.

If none is formed then once the majority of restrictions are lifted and it's safe to do so then we can have another election, early 2021 at the earliest.

IAMAMORON

LuasSimon wrote: »

A FG-SF government would be far more popular than a FG-FF government at this stage .

Maybe in another generation. But it would overly polarise a lot of the FG heartland, more so than sleeping with FF.

Sinn Féin are still toxic to 74 % of the republic no matter how well they feel they are doing.

beauf

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Micheál needs to employ a personal charisma instructor. I would say the knives are out.

The reality is that FF are losing votes to SF. FG are gaining votes everywhere else.

Apart from Micheál being a 3 day old fish in a barrel, FF have no major woman in their party. They are leaking votes without a young vibrant female politician. SF obviously have Mary Lou and FG have McEntee or Jennifer Carroll.

FF don't have any, women don't identify with them anymore. That adds up to a lot of popularity and a lot of votes.

For starters Michaél needs to start thinking on his feat and fast. I would suggest a fairly rapidly rotating wheel of Taoiseach, 6 months max. The longer he is at the wheel the worse it will get for Fianna Fáil. If their popularity wains after he gets his go in charge he will really need to reconsider his position.

FF are having an identity crisis. They are just a worse version of FG more baggage and zero personality. They need to differentiate themselves. They are failing at this.

kippy

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

Why are people so obsessed with polls? They change from one week to the next. And we're likely 5 years away from another election. SO this poll is completely meaningless.

Polls are something to keep the news cycle going, as a useful indicator of anything of importance they are generally as good as waterproof tea bags.

Richard Hillman

We need another election. We went into the last election under the basis of the housing situation and whilst that is still there we need an election based on reviving the economy. It won't be the same arguments from the last time out and the basis of how people vote may change immensely.

Secondly, Michael Martin has absolutely no business being taoiseacht. He was in opposition since the last election and still managed to lose seats. He negotiated absolutely nothing out of confidence and supply, zip. He has just been lurking around for years awaiting his turn to fulfill a personal ambition.

He is a weak leader. I cannot emphasise the word weak any more. He is feeble. He cannot be put in a position to try and negotiate things internationally. The likes of the EU will run rings around him just like Varadkar did for 4 years. I wouldn't be surprised if Varadkar hoodwinks him into telling he can take over in January and he will see the year out.

He was Cuckholded by Kenny and Varadkar for 4 years. He sat across from them watching them sit in the big seat, in knowing that he could pull the plug at any stage but didn't have the courage to stop it. He sat in a corner watching and asked nicely "Can I have my turn?". Soon, Michael, soon, just after we finish this.

It's not an Anti-Fianna Fáil thing either, they just need a new leader. And they will probably end up with a new leader within a year because he will be usurped very quickly and easily.

He has no mandate to lead his party, to leader the country and things have changed dramatically since the election.

Fred Cryton

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Call another election now Leo. It would be ridiculous in the extreme to allow Martin to swan in now as Taoiseach.

Shinners think they're going to gain seats but they may well go backwards if FG & FF collude/step aside for each other in certain constituencies.

And keep calling elections until there’s a clear majority.

Plumbthedepths

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And keep calling elections until there’s a clear majority.

The Irish way ,keep going back to the electorate until you get the answer you want.

kippy

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

The Irish way ,keep going back to the electorate until you get the answer you want.

Until a government can be formed surely?
If a government can be formed why go back to the electorate?

Dank Janniels

The real danger here is the 1% who gave their approval to Renua despite having no elected representatives in the country!!

mehico

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Maybe in another generation. But it would overly polarise a lot of the FG heartland, more so than sleeping with FF.

Sinn Féin are still toxic to 74 % of the republic no matter how well they feel they are doing.

That's a bit like saying FF are still toxic to 86% of people based on this poll sample and very few people now want this party in government.

While the poll is probably meaningless in terms of elections if the trend continues could it give FG leverage over FF in terms of prioritising potential policy objectives and appointment of ministers to specific departments for example?

whippet

I’m tired of listening to people manning about how the people voted for change ... they voted for individuals and parties and the make up of the Dail is a reflection of this.

The dail elects the government and at the moment the votes of the people seems to have pointed towards a government consisting of FF and FG with others. That is a fact.

SF can’t use the line about being excluded from discussions when Mary announced during her ‘winning / losing’ speech that she wanted to form a government that excluded both FG and FF. now that the reality is that SF can’t get near enough support to form a government she plays the victim.

ThunbergsAreGo

Wanderer78 wrote: »

there wont be an election called, ffg will just plough on as usual, preventing any alternative government from being formed

Please explain?

Or is that just a soundbite? Nothing stopping an alternative government being formed apart from the public seemingly not giving them enough votes

TheValeyard

Fann Linn wrote: »

They are about to merge.Just waiting for Eamonn Ryan to solemnise the marriage.

Had to read that again, thought you said sodomize :pac:

IAMAMORON

mehico wrote: »

That's a bit like saying FF are still toxic to 86% of people based on this poll sample and very few people now want this party in government.

While the poll is probably meaningless in terms of elections if the trend continues could it give FG leverage over FF in terms of prioritising potential policy objectives and appointment of ministers to specific departments for example?

Not really. If FF pulled up their socks and got a new plan they would still have a chance. It is all about perception. They don't polarise opinion as much as Sinn Féin do. As a voter you are either voting Sinn Féin or you aren't.

Also a poll of a thousand people does not a national consensus make. More so now than ever before. The reality is that FF have about 24 % support. They also enjoy the luxury of being amicable with the other 76 %. Sinn Fein don't. Unless Sinn Féin can get another 26% of the country to turn communist they will also need to revisit their strategy, all things considered that looks like a bigger mountain to climb. It will only get steeper the longer they can't get into power, which they probably can't, all things considered.

r93kaey5p2izun

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Maybe in another generation. But it would overly polarise a lot of the FG heartland, more so than sleeping with FF.

Sinn Féin are still toxic to 74 % of the republic no matter how well they feel they are doing.

That's a really crazy way of looking at it. Sinn Fein are not my first choice of representative, so I haven't given a first preference to them, and would not say they are my preference in a poll like this, and I suppose I number among the 74% in your interpretation. But I do not see SF as toxic, I am not opposed to them being in government, and I do not rule out ever voting for them in the future. I would say there are many who feel like me, particularly the many people who are not life long supporters any other party. I think things are far more grey and less black and white regarding SF support than you imagine.

PyreOfHellfire

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

The Irish way ,keep going back to the electorate until you get the answer you want.

What are you sh*tting on about now? :rolleyes:

Arlessienne wrote: »

That's a really crazy way of looking at it. Sinn Fein are not my first choice of representative, so I haven't given a first preference to them, and would not say they are my preference in a poll like this, and I suppose I number among the 76% in your interpretation. But I do not see SF as toxic, I am not opposed to them being in government, and I do not rule out ever voting for them in the future. I would say there are many who feel like me, particularly the many people who are not life long supporters any other party. I think things are far more grey and less black and white regarding SF support than you imagine.

Spot on. There's only so many times the merry go round can keep spinning before people get sick of the result. SF for all their past indiscretions have not been in government and eventually people will give them a first preference just for the sake of something new. I did so in the last election for the first time in my voting life. Also the first time I didn't give FF or FG a second preference, decided to just leave it blank.

Thelonious Monk

I can't stand MM. I think I'll have to avoid all Irish media if he becomes Taoiseach.

Eric Cartman

TheValeyard wrote: »

Had to read that again, thought you said sodomize :pac:

Well the greens tax demands will be quite similar to that.

IAMAMORON

Jensen Sweet Prodigy wrote: »

That's a really crazy way of looking at it. Sinn Fein are not my first choice of representative, so I haven't given a first preference to them, and would not say they are my preference in a poll like this, and I suppose I number among the 74% in your interpretation. But I do not see SF as toxic, I am not opposed to them being in government, and I do not rule out ever voting for them in the future. I would say there are many who feel like me, particularly the many people who are not life long supporters any other party. I think things are far more grey and less black and white regarding SF support than you imagine.

That is fine, thanks for sharing . About 26% of the country actually share your sentiment.

But the other 74 % don't. It is a polarised electorate.

I am not imaging things, if you read my post what I am saying is that Sinn Féin are suffering from some post election smugness, they did fantastic. But they need to convince the rest of the country now and I don't see it happening. Even yesterdays' poll indicates this.

Mortelaro

I will vote Sinn Féin if and when their economic policies mirror my own
Currently closest to my frame of mind are Fine Gael
Plus I think Leo is a good image for our country when out on the world stage versus the other party leaders
Very Trudeau like or Ardern
Always wanting to be on top of the facts etc

r93kaey5p2izun

IAMAMORON wrote: »

That is fine, thanks for sharing . About 26% of the country actually share your sentiment.

But the other 74 % don't. It is a polarised electorate.

I am not imaging things, if you read my post what I am saying is that Sinn Féin are suffering from some post election smugness, they did fantastic. But they need to convince the rest of the country now and I don't see it happening. Even yesterdays' poll indicates this.

Where are you getting that 74% see SF as toxic?

I don't see how you would count me in the 26% - I haven't voted for SF and would not be counted among their supporters in a poll like this one. But neither do I see them as toxic.

IAMAMORON

Jensen Sweet Prodigy wrote: »

Where are you getting that 74% see SF as toxic?

I think you need to appreciate that I am generalising. But in the case that you don't, you have to acknowledge that no other parties were willing to enter coalition with Sin Féin, certainly not enough to entertain a majority government.

Jensen Sweet Prodigy wrote: »

I don't see how you would count me in the 26% - I haven't voted for SF and would not be counted among their supporters in a poll like this one. But neither do I see them as toxic.

Ok, sorry if I misinterpreted your post. But I do think that voters are either pro Sinn Féin or they aren't. If you examine the transfer voting from this years election you see that. Left wing parties did benefit from Sinn Féin transfers, but not enough for a majority. But a tiny percentage of FG and FF transfers went to Sinn Féin or other left wing groups. That is my point.

I also think that the left wing momentum has reached saturation, I don't see it growing any further.

Wanderer78

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Please explain?

Or is that just a soundbite? Nothing stopping an alternative government being formed apart from the public seemingly not giving them enough votes

its clearly obvious that both ffg plan to block any alternative governments from being formed going forward, expect both parties to behave as such for as long as possible, possibly indefinitely. electorate voting choices only play a part in government formations, after voting takes place, party politics plays a more critical role in formation.

This is it

I've no idea where you're getting "74% think they're toxic" sure that means all that didn't vote FG think theyre toxic, and all that didn't vote FF think they're toxic, which clearly isn't the case.

I've no idea what point you're trying to make, whatever it is you're doing a horrendous job of getting it across.

Eric Cartman

Wanderer78 wrote: »

its clearly obvious that both ffg plan to block any alternative governments from being formed going forward, expect both parties to behave as such for as long as possible, possibly indefinitely. electorate voting choices only play a part in government formations, after voting takes place, party politics plays a more critical role in formation.

I think if FF & FG take the poison pill of the greens it will almost certainly see one of them almost obliterated in the next election. One tax increase with MM at the helm and thats FF back to 2011 levels next time. Leaving a huge gap in the market that SF are too toxic to fill. It could be labours saviour.

Luckily it will wipe out the greens too.

Edgware

TheValeyard wrote: »

Had to read that again, thought you said sodomize :pac:

That could happen too

LuasSimon

To even watch the party leaders , Leo and Mary Lou at least can have a bit of banter with each other...Michael Martin would turn milk sour the face on him

Edgware

Mortelaro wrote: »

I will vote Sinn Féin if and when their economic policies mirror my own
Currently closest to my frame of mind are Fine Gael
Plus I think Leo is a good image for our country when out on the world stage versus the other party leaders
Very Trudeau like or Ardern
Always wanting to be on top of the facts etc

Yes. He has a great taste in socks.

Edgware

LuasSimon wrote: »

To even watch the party leaders , Leo and Mary Lou at least can have a bit of banter with each other...Michael Martin would turn milk sour the face on him

That's what we really need. More banter between the fish wife and the socks salesman

blinding

Michaél Martin selling his Country for 13 pieces of Silver.

Cheap but a sell out is a sell out to Ffg.

From 1 minute 5 Seconds. For this scum Thomas Clarke and James Connolly Died ! ! !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akkPu-FJyiA&frags=pl%2Cwn