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Off Topic Thread 5.0

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    #4382
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,114 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    stephen_n wrote: »
    It’s the second time an ARU have shot dead a man with a knife. I would question how well trained the ARU are if they can’t shoot someone without killing them when they have a knife. Surely it’s possible for a leg shot, shoulder or arm. Somewhere non fatal, if they are trained marksmen.

    If the police shoot someone they shoot centre mass to stop them. Aim for elsewhere and you are more likely to miss and less likely to accomplish your goal. Once it has reached the point of opening fire there is no other option. Besides, you can kill someone pretty easily by shooting them in the leg. Shooting people in the leg/arm is utter movie fantasy stuff.

    The only legit question is whether they needed to open fire at all and no one has the slightest idea of that yet.


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    #4383
    Dog Botherer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭Dog Botherer


    it’s a bad look when 15 guards can’t disarm a guy with a knife without executing him


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    #4384
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,114 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The Guards are not a trigger happy police force by any stretch of the imagination, nor is there a history of questionable police killings. Probably best to wait for the inevitable inquiry and details to come out.


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    #4385
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    The Guards are not a trigger happy police force by any stretch of the imagination, nor is there a history of questionable police killings. Probably best to wait for the inevitable inquiry and details to come out.

    This. We dont need to rush to judgement here, in either direction.


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    #4386
    DGRulz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,232 ✭✭✭DGRulz


    By all accounts non-lethal options were used first and the guy didn't stay down.


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    #4387
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Dog Botherer wrote: »
    it’s a bad look when 15 guards can’t disarm a guy with a knife without executing him

    I think there were two attempts to end the incident using non lethal means that failed.

    Someone unhinged with a knife will be stopped by 15 guards but how many will be seriously or fatally injured in the process?

    It's a sad case and not one I'd like to see in any way repeated nor a slope I'd like to see the country drift down.

    But this does seem like a situation where other options were exhausted unfortunately.


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    #4388
    OldRio
    Registered Users Posts: 5,985 ✭✭✭OldRio


    stephen_n wrote: »
    It’s the second time an ARU have shot dead a man with a knife. I would question how well trained the ARU are if they can’t shoot someone without killing them when they have a knife. Surely it’s possible for a leg shot, shoulder or arm. Somewhere non fatal, if they are trained marksmen.

    And your training in these type of situations is?


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    #4389
    OldRio
    Registered Users Posts: 5,985 ✭✭✭OldRio


    Dog Botherer wrote: »
    it’s a bad look when 15 guards can’t disarm a guy with a knife without executing him

    Executing?

    FFS


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    #4390
    Dog Botherer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭Dog Botherer


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I think there were two attempts to end the incident using non lethal means that failed.

    Someone unhinged with a knife will be stopped by 15 guards but how many will be seriously or fatally injured in the process?

    It's a sad case and not one I'd like to see in any way repeated nor a slope I'd like to see the country drift down.

    But this does seem like a situation where other options were exhausted unfortunately.

    i contend that if 15 guards can’t reasonably easily disarm one knife wielding person regardless of mental state they are either incompetent or poorly trained.

    i will comment further when the guards have had time to get their story straight and release more information.


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    #4391
    Dog Botherer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭Dog Botherer


    OldRio wrote: »
    Executing?

    FFS

    sorry, murdering. execution implies justice.


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    #4392
    OldRio
    Registered Users Posts: 5,985 ✭✭✭OldRio


    Dog Botherer wrote: »
    sorry, murdering. execution implies justice.

    Wow, just wow.


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    #4393
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Dog Botherer wrote: »
    sorry, murdering. execution implies justice.

    On a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 is someone who has never served in any forces or been trained in conflict de-escalation and has no idea what they’re talking about, and 10 being a veteran member of an armed response unit, where would you put yourself?


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    #4394
    Dog Botherer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭Dog Botherer


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    On a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 is someone who has never served in any forces or been trained in conflict de-escalation and has no idea what they’re talking about, and 10 being a veteran member of an armed response unit, where would you put yourself?

    10


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    #4395
    connemara man
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional West Moderators Posts: 6,773 Mod ✭✭✭✭connemara man


    MOD NOTE

    Like all cases that are ongoing and discussed on boards please keep to the reported facts and try not to draw any conclusions that can't be backed up


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    #4396
    Dog Botherer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭Dog Botherer


    now, if everyone is quite done throwing their fits:
    Dog Botherer wrote: »
    i will comment further when the guards have had time to get their story straight and release more information.


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    #4397
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,150 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    Dog Botherer wrote: »
    i contend that if 15 guards can’t reasonably easily disarm one knife wielding person regardless of mental state they are either incompetent or poorly trained.

    i will comment further when the guards have had time to get their story straight and release more information.

    It's very sad what happened but you're underestimating how dangerous a knife is at close quarters, they're actually more dangerous than guns.

    Even if there's 15 Gardai at least one of them will get stabbed. How badly stabbed who knows? Getting stabbed by some one who wants to kill you (he was tasered twice, had been pepper sprayed, and had already given facial injuries to a shop worker) at close quarters can be fatal.


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    #4398
    Bazzo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭Bazzo


    It's easy to be outraged if you're looking to be outraged, I suppose.


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    #4399
    OldRio
    Registered Users Posts: 5,985 ✭✭✭OldRio


    Dog Botherer wrote: »
    now, if everyone is quite done throwing their fits:

    I think you were doing a grand job yer self on the fits front


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    #4400
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,378 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Dog Botherer wrote: »
    sorry, murdering. execution implies justice.

    Give it up, that's disgraceful language.


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    #4401
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Dog Botherer wrote: »
    i contend that if 15 guards can’t reasonably easily disarm one knife wielding person regardless of mental state they are either incompetent or poorly trained.

    i will comment further when the guards have had time to get their story straight and release more information.

    So how many times have you faced down someone wielding a knife? Do you know what his mental state was? Or his sobriety?

    Its easy to sit in judgement of incredibly dangerous situations from the comfort of your home. But reality is far different from whatever you seem to think it is.


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    #4402
    Dog Botherer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭Dog Botherer


    molloyjh wrote: »
    So how many times have you faced down someone wielding a knife? Do you know what his mental state was? Or his sobriety?

    72.


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    #4403
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    It's very sad what happened but you're underestimating how dangerous a knife is at close quarters, they're actually more dangerous than guns.

    Even if there's 15 Gardai at least one of them will get stabbed. How badly stabbed who knows? Getting stabbed by some one who wants to kill you (he was tasered twice, had been pepper sprayed, and had already given facial injuries to a shop worker) at close quarters can be fatal.

    Hold on he was tasered twice and still going?


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    #4404
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    It's very sad what happened but you're underestimating how dangerous a knife is at close quarters, they're actually more dangerous than guns.

    Even if there's 15 Gardai at least one of them will get stabbed. How badly stabbed who knows? Getting stabbed by some one who wants to kill you (he was tasered twice, had been pepper sprayed, and had already given facial injuries to a shop worker) at close quarters can be fatal.

    And on top of that you've no idea where the blade has been or what may be on it. Nobody will have wanted it to end this way. Its incredible how some see the individual as being, well, an individual, but then sees the individual Gardai as some faceless entity as opposed to a collection of individuals themselves. I can only imagine what the Garda who had to do it is going through at the moment.


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    #4405
    OldRio
    Registered Users Posts: 5,985 ✭✭✭OldRio


    So Dog Botherer were you there.?
    Youve been the judge and jury on the Guards. Therefore you must have seen everything, right?


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    #4406
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Dog Botherer wrote: »
    72.

    Stop embarrassing yourself.


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    #4407
    Dog Botherer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭Dog Botherer


    OldRio wrote: »
    So Dog Botherer were you there.?
    Youve been the judge and jury on the Guards. Therefore you must have seen everything, right?

    yes. how did you know?


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    #4408
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,378 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Dog Botherer wrote: »
    yes. how did you know?

    No **** g way you were there as part of the ARU and are here tonight posting on a message board....


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    #4409
    Dog Botherer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭Dog Botherer


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    No **** g way you were there as part of the ARU and are here tonight posting on a message board....

    why not? free country.


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    #4410
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    No **** g way you were there as part of the ARU and are here tonight posting on a message board....

    Is he not the guy who lives in the US?


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    #4411
    Dog Botherer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭Dog Botherer


    Stheno wrote: »
    Is he not the guy who lives in the US?

    i got homesick


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