Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Ginger n Lemon

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

That not going to happen, that would be as foolish as to suggest that
-The CMO would respond to a direct question about whats required regarding numbers with "as low as possible".
-The health minister with no idea what the 19 means in Covid 19
-The NPHET would refuse to publish the minutes of and refusing journalist access to the meetings with the CMO claiming they are "busy"

That actually is not as bad as you may think, although i did chuckle at what the 19 means in Covid19. Couple of days ago, 2 doctors from California have posted a 1 hour interview they've had with local news channel about their results in relation to Covid19 testing and data in their area. They said that the numbers reported made no sense, in California, some areas had 12% positive covid19 antibody tests coming through, population over over 1million, death numbers in low 100s. working out at around 0.012% mortality.

Video was taken down by youtube for violating the "rules". These 2 doctors had 36 years of virology experience between them and were interviewed by local news channel that very much were trying to batter them over their opinion...

That interview is back on youtube in 2 parts. It is very good.

Snugglebunnies

snotboogie wrote: »

Anyone hear Newstalk this morning with the HSE executive? She made it clear that there is no timeline to end social distancing and that we will have to get used to a new normal. Annoyingly the host was intent on putting hand washing and social distancing in the same bracket "I guess we'll just all have to get used to washing hands and social distancing" as if they are one in the same. Hand washing is a minor inconvenience which has almost no downside, social distancing will force us to reconsider everything about our society and economy.

I've said it over and over and over but people are not grasping the drastic implications of long term social distancing. The restrictions being lifted are a sideshow, a non event for most people. The real question is when we won't need to be 2 metres away from anyone not in our household. Society cannot function anything like it did before with social distancing in place.

I think this is the thing bothering me most. No end to social distancing... I'm surprised there hasn't been a lot more conversation about it.

drunkmonkey

Snugglebunnies wrote: »

I think this is the thing bothering me most. No end to social distancing... I'm surprised there hasn't been a lot more conversation about it.

Yea no end:rolleyes:
https://www.foxnews.com/us/video-texas-park-ranger-social-distancing-pushed-lake

peasant

Snugglebunnies wrote: »

I think this is the thing bothering me most. No end to social distancing...

The virus is extremely contagious
The virus spreads most actively before or just during the onset of symptoms.

So the person that infects you most likely shows no symptoms at all or just a light sniffle that could be anything or nothing.

The virus could kill you...perhaps it won't, perhaps it will.

And social distancing bothers you?

rob316

England could delay the closure and will open sooner as there health system is streets ahead. We are going to be throwing 10's billions at propping up the economy when we should be increasing bed and ICU capacity

Antares35

snotboogie wrote: »

Anyone hear Newstalk this morning with the HSE executive? She made it clear that there is no timeline to end social distancing and that we will have to get used to a new normal. Annoyingly the host was intent on putting hand washing and social distancing in the same bracket "I guess we'll just all have to get used to washing hands and social distancing" as if they are one in the same. Hand washing is a minor inconvenience which has almost no downside, social distancing will force us to reconsider everything about our society and economy.

I've said it over and over and over but people are not grasping the drastic implications of long term social distancing. The restrictions being lifted are a sideshow, a non event for most people. The real question is when we won't need to be 2 metres away from anyone not in our household. Society cannot function anything like it did before with social distancing in place.

I agree with you that they are two completely different measures however unfortunately many people have quite simply, a dire lack of common sense and manners when it comes to personal hygiene. Even before this all happened, bad manners were socially acceptable. You'd often have to step over globs of phlegm on the street where some degenerate had coughed a lung up, people sniffling incessantly on public transport instead of just using a tissue, people sneezing and coughing without making any effort to block the spray, rubbing/ exploring their noses then going around touching door handles, poles in buses and trams etc.

Even in work, where there should be some kind of etiquette and respect for colleagues, you would often notice people coming out of bathrooms without washing their hands (if you were waiting to go in for example) then going around touching coffee machines, door handles, phones that other people also use. Vile carry on and it means that yes, people need to be treated like 5 year olds because, that is simply how many of them behave.

It shouldn't need to be listed as a "special measure" to practice good hygiene but unfortunately the lowest common denominator dictates otherwise.

Snugglebunnies

peasant wrote: »

The virus is extremely contagious
The virus spreads most actively before or just during the onset of symptoms.

So the person that infects you most likely shows no symptoms at all or just a light sniffle that could be anything or nothing.

The virus could kill you...perhaps it won't, perhaps it will.

And social distancing bothers you?

Well obviously people dying bothers me more! But how can anyone live normally if you have to stay 2 metres from everyone, until when?

lawrencesummers

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

The real hospitalisation rate is under 1.5%, flu is circa 1% for comparison

Out of interest are you comparing the figures of a pandemic with Countermeasure restrictions In place versus a disease without restrictions?

VonLuck

I'd hate to be in a position of power right now. No matter what you do you will be criticised.

If you give in to pressure and relax measures you'll be blamed that the number of cases / deaths could have been lower.

If it's successful, you'll receive criticism that the measures were too strict and are crippling the economy.

The reality is that no one knows for sure what the right approach is. The important thing is that there is a plan in place and that it needs to be followed through, regardless of whether you agree with it or not.

FintanMcluskey

VonLuck wrote: »

I'd hate to be in a position of power right now. No matter what you do you will be criticised.

If you give in to pressure and relax measures you'll be blamed that the number of cases / deaths could have been lower.

If it's successful, you'll receive criticism that the measures were too strict and are crippling the economy.

The reality is that no one knows for sure what the right approach is. The important thing is that there is a plan in place and that it needs to be followed through, regardless of whether you agree with it or not.

No one will criticise transparency

SNNUS

Another poster goes for a walk and is outraged that others had the audacity to do the same thing! Now with pictures of strangers!

Bob24 wrote: »

Went out for my first walk in weeks besides very short ones to the grocery shop and pretty appalled by what I saw.

Looks like to me restriction have in effect been largely relaxed already with many people passing by each other at very close distance and hundreds lying in the park. Pics attached.

Snugglebunnies

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Yea no end:rolleyes:
https://www.foxnews.com/us/video-texas-park-ranger-social-distancing-pushed-lake

What's that got to do with what I said?

FishOnABike

KrustyUCC wrote: »

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/coronavirus/whos-in-charge-cracks-appearing-as-tensions-mount-over-lockdown-exit-strategy/ar-BB13wvJx?ocid=sf2

Interesting article

NPHET wanted 4 weeks in between phases lol

Ours is one of the slowest plans in Europe as it is with 3 weeks inbetween phases

Three weeks is pretty much the shortest time you can see any trend in the key indicators following a change in restrictions due to the possible incubation period between infection and symptoms / diagnosis. Any less than three weeks and we would be running blind.

FintanMcluskey

Snugglebunnies wrote: »

Well obviously people dying bothers me more! But how can anyone live normally if you have to stay 2 metres from everyone, until when?

The 2m thing is unproven. So is the thinking that this is a death sentence.
Life will return to normal, for those who think social distancing will carry on forevermore, basic evolution will prevent them from passing on the thoughts to the next generations. Very hard to meet someone and have kids from 2m away.

kippy

snotboogie wrote: »

Anyone hear Newstalk this morning with the HSE executive? She made it clear that there is no timeline to end social distancing and that we will have to get used to a new normal. Annoyingly the host was intent on putting hand washing and social distancing in the same bracket "I guess we'll just all have to get used to washing hands and social distancing" as if they are one in the same. Hand washing is a minor inconvenience which has almost no downside, social distancing will force us to reconsider everything about our society and economy.

I've said it over and over and over but people are not grasping the drastic implications of long term social distancing. The restrictions being lifted are a sideshow, a non event for most people. The real question is when we won't need to be 2 metres away from anyone not in our household. Society cannot function anything like it did before with social distancing in place.

Of course. Without antibody testing in conjunction with a vaccine that is widely administered that is the world we are living in. It's risk assessment and mitigation for a large number of activities.
Even the least restricted of nations have no intention (from what I can see) of changing that advice.
Regular handwashing should be ingrained in us anyway but unfortunately isn't.

yosemitesam1

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Out of interest are you comparing the figures of a pandemic with Countermeasure restrictions In place versus a disease without restrictions?

It's a constant figure with or without restrictions.

SusieBlue

Snugglebunnies wrote: »

Well obviously people dying bothers me more! But how can anyone live normally if you have to stay 2 metres from everyone, until when?

Anyone single can kiss goodbye any hopes of meeting someone and starting a relationship until there is a vaccine, if the current social distancing rules stay in place.
Established relationships will break down from the lack of intimacy and the distance, because if you don’t live with your partner how are you supposed to have any kind of functioning sex life if you have to stay 2m apart from each other?

When the reality & repercussions of the current rules set in there will be a lot of anger & frustration.
When people realise they are expected to sacrifice having any kind of romantic relationships until there is a vaccine I can imagine the tide turning quite rapidly.

peasant

Snugglebunnies wrote: »

...how can anyone live normally if you have to stay 2 metres from everyone, until when?

It's the new normal....if you want to be sure that you and others don't die, you keep your distance until the virus is gone. That's as simple and as difficult as it's going to be for the next while.

Right now no-one can tell you how long or short that will be, only that they're working on it.

kippy

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Do if you have time.
Essentially Sweden should now be seeing death rates of about 250k with doctors having to make decisions on who to save and let die. Triage seen in the trenches of WW1.

I can't believe they let the virus roam free like that with no mitigation efforts and didn't end up in a Doomsday scenario.

kippy

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

The 2m thing is unproven. So is the thinking that this is a death sentence.
Life will return to normal, for those who think social distancing will carry on forevermore, basic evolution will prevent them from passing on the thoughts to the next generations. Very hard to meet someone and have kids from 2m away.

The 2m thing will continue to be a recommendation untill one of a few things have happened. It's likely to go on well past the next 6 months.
What do you mean that its' unproven?

SusieBlue

peasant wrote: »

It's the new normal....if you want to be sure that you and others don't die, you keep your distance until the virus is gone. That's as simple and as difficult as it's going to be for the next while.

Right now no-one can tell you how long or short that will be, only that they're working on it.

The isolation, loneliness and economy crashing also has potential to kill a lot of us, but that isn’t important or relevant to a lot of people here.

iamwhoiam

kippy wrote: »

The 2m thing will continue to be a recommendation untill one of a few things have happened. It's likely to go on well past the next 6 months.
What do you mean that its' unproven?

Leo actually mentioned on the LLS that it could be reduced to one metre at some stage .

kippy

SusieBlue wrote: »

The isolation, loneliness and economy crashing also has potential to kill a lot of us, but that isn’t important or relevant to a lot of people here.

Why do you say that?
Its as important as the virus, in fact all 4 are intrinsically linked.

drunkmonkey

Snugglebunnies wrote: »

What's that got to do with what I said?

There's an end to social distancing, we've survived many a plague, if everyone played by the rules none of us would be here.

lawrencesummers

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

The real hospitalisation rate is under 1.5%, flu is circa 1% for comparison

Out of interest are you comparing the figures of a pandemic with Countermeasure restrictions In place versus a disease without restrictions?

gozunda

easypazz wrote: »

Nonsense as usual. Stockholm expects herd immunity in weeks, while here we conned into a middle of August plan and lectured about a second wave.

We think that most of those are immune from transmission in society, not the workplace. We could reach herd immunity in Stockholm within a matter of weeks.

Bullcrap. You make all that up up yourself? Is Stockholm the same as Sweden? News for you -no its not. Plenty of expert opinion that shows Swedens rate of infection is now out of control. Funny you deny that.

And more importantly there is no evidence that anything like "herd immunity" has any basis in reality in relation to Covid.

easypazz wrote: »

How is their economy in tatters? Unemployment expected to go from 7 to 10%

More makeup up bs? According to who? Yourself? Dont make me laugh!

easypazz wrote: »

In Ireland it is 17% and rising, and projected to hit 22%

Ditto

easypazz wrote: »

GDP in Sweden will take a short term hit but it is expected to bounce back in 2021.

Again pulling stuff out of the dark orifice? There are reliable reports that say that Swedens Economy is going down the tubes. But of course because you like arguing - I'd be surprised if you didnt claim the exact opposite. :pac:

easypazz wrote: »

More tosh.
You have swallowed Holohans doctrine hook, line and sinker.

Yes what you wrote is indeed 'tosh'
Not referring to Holohan btw - but dont let that stop your normal rabid Anti FG rants or even reality

And indeed with your rights come responsibility. Amazing you dont know that...

easypazz wrote: »

We have a right to challenge and question these peoples strategy. The government paniced into this strategy and like you are afraid to accept that there might have been a better way.

Indeed we do. But your hate filled and frankly daft rants dont come close.

easypazz wrote: »

Don't be surprised if we are following the Sweden model by July.

Lol. Hilarious. Do you do stand up comedy on a regular basis?

easypazz wrote: »

I have moved on from observing the lockdown. I am capable of doing so while engaging in social distancing, being sensible and not risking spreading the disease. As are most people, but the government don't want to accept that.

Of course you have because you know better than anyone else and everyone else including the experts are wrong according to you. Whats new eh? Best of luck with that. Dont cond back here crying ...

kippy

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

It's a constant figure with or without restrictions.

I can't see how you can make that statement without any evidence....

VonLuck

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

No one will criticise transparency

What's not transparent at the moment? Not saying that we have all the information, just genuinely interested in what you think should be told to the public.

Ginger n Lemon

SusieBlue wrote: »

Anyone single can kiss goodbye any hopes of meeting someone and starting a relationship until there is a vaccine, if the current social distancing rules stay in place.
Established relationships will break down from the lack of intimacy and the distance, because if you don’t live with your partner how are you supposed to have any kind of functioning sex life if you have to stay 2m apart from each other?

When the reality & repercussions of the current rules set in there will be a lot of anger & frustration.
When people realise they are expected to sacrifice having any kind of romantic relationships until there is a vaccine I can imagine the tide turning quite rapidly.

I wouldnt count on vaccine at all. Such has only started to being developed in January this year. Say it comes out in September, will you inject something into your body that has been in development for 9 months?

Say this comes out in September 2021. Would you be comfortable with injecting something into your body that has only been around for 21 months?

I am unsure why would you want to sacrifice your normal life to avoid a virus that kills less than 1%? And even that less than 1% has underlying conditions such as cancer, heart disease. It's very unfortunate, but that's the reality of whats happening.

kippy

drunkmonkey wrote: »

There's an end to social distancing, we've survived many a plague, if everyone played by the rules none of us would be here.

There is and end to it but the point being made was that the recommendation will go on longer than any of the restrictions being lifted.