How will schools be able to go back in September?

khalessi

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Certainly from day one the advice was if you were sick with Covid you should isolate in a well ventilated room
The spread is more likely in poorly ventilated crowded room
Open windows are not going to get rid of Covid but it is part of the overall strategy to try to beat it
I heard one virologist say that we should be opening all windows every day to all free flow of fresh air

In my classroom the windows dont open properly for good ventilation something to do with health and safety, apparently we didn't want to lose a kid out of a window. Of course you will take as a teacher creating difficulties, sadly I didnt design the school. They open at an angle and the children constantly complain about the lack of air. We were sweltered last year with all the windows open, it was dreadful.

bettyoleary

AustinOC wrote: »

I agree - on the strict condition that the virus was heading towards zero in specific areas or counties, the above proposals or similar should be considered on a cost v benefit basis before June. Kids / teachers could attend on a voluntary basis. Outdoor classes etc, anything at all to close the psychological gap in the kids' minds. The blanket closure to September regardless of what the virus does seems premature. Other European countries are prioritising their educations systems, the debate here is all about re-opening the pubs while people throng the off-licences and chippers. And in the likely event that the pandemic rages through the southern hemisphere through the next few months, our schools will be closed again most likely from October on. Did NPHET consider that? June should be the best month in terms of weather (outdoor classes, open windows in classes etc) and in terms of immunity (Vitamin D). As with all these matters, it would have been very helpful to know what scenarios / risks / benefits NPHET considered here.

I cant imagine how any one would think it beneficial to send any group of people into confined spaces at this stage. I am assuming the children would have to socially distance in line with general population? I think this would be very traumatic for children, especially the younger ones. How would they understand they cant go near their class mates and how would you even attempt to police them if they did. Wouldn't if frighten them to be told stand away quickly, wash your hands!!!!! Its ridiculous. It dosent matter if there is 6 or 20 in a class.

BonsaiKitten

Scoondal wrote: »

The teachers want their paid two months off. We should give them June and July. August ... we split classes ... 2 hours morning and 2 hours afternoon.
Can we give our children some normality.
Unions and Department of Education both oppose this. What is the best thing for parents and society ?

Considering that school holidays are technically unpaid I don't think it's unreasonable for teachers to not want to work for free.

I do believe schools should go back (with adequate time for planning) but the reality is that many school buildings are just not suited to social distancing. Classroom sizes and lack of handwashing facilities come to mind right away. Even ignoring that, imagine trying to socially distance with a class of young children... What about when they get hurt/sad/ill/confused? Or they just want to come up close and tell their teacher a story about their cat? That's natural for that age. I can't see how schools can properly keep to social distancing guidelines.

eclipsechaser

eclipsechaser wrote: »

If the Department of Education don't think they can even run a variant of the Leaving Certificate in August with 1/6 of a secondary school pupils in large halls and generous spacing, I've got some bad news for those of you hoping that primary schools will open in June.

As I was saying:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/leaving-cert-exams-set-to-be-cancelled-and-replaced-with-predicted-grades-1.4247877?mode=amp

IT now reporting that the LC will be cancelled.

CinemaGuy45

History Queen wrote: »

So teachers aren't parents or part of society? There are fears over the safety of sixth years attending exams in August (approx 1/6 of the post-primary population) but the only reason schools can't open is because teachers want time off. Ya.

Scoondal

Dravokivich wrote: »

If that were simply the case, teachers also play teachers salaries.

They do 2 hours work at a salary of €35000. and they need their holidays in July and August. That is not fair for ordinary citizens.

Benimar

Dravokivich wrote: »

So spread'em out... good. And what if they cant get to those other nominated locations?

I’m sure there aren’t too many secondary schools that don’t have either a primary school, GAA hall, soccer club or church hall nearby.

If they could get to their normal school, they can get to those.

khalessi

Scoondal wrote: »

I pay teachers' salaries. Teachers are still on full salaries doing an hour of poor online "work".

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

Total utter rubbish nonsense post.:rolleyes:

I bet most of them don't even bother with an hour of any kind of online work.;)

Would that be through your taxes? The same one I pay for your wages.
I work bloody hard and at the moment 12 hour days are the good ones. You should try if it is easy. But no you will moan and go typical teacher answer.

Well this teacher worked private sector also worked as a nurse and went back and retrained as a teacher and I will say it is a harder job than I thought. As a nurse I was called a whore and easy, and now as a teacher I am slagged off constantly by keyboard warriors who have no idea what the job entails and have no intention of finding out as that would be too much hassle.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

eclipsechaser wrote: »

As I was saying:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/leaving-cert-exams-set-to-be-cancelled-and-replaced-with-predicted-grades-1.4247877?mode=amp

IT now reporting that the LC will be cancelled.

Predicted grades - that will be more subjective, no? I know students often missed out on their first CAO choice but it was based on concrete exams.

Benimar

The desire for predicted grades will change once students start being awarded grades they didn’t predict they would get!

Multipass

History Queen wrote: »

Now don't get me wrong I completely understand that they need a viable plan b in place in case things worsen, but surely calling off an exam (that is over two months away) with our current outlook being cautiously optimistic, would be madness?! Just from the point of view of the knock on effect it will have on students and education in general.

I still think all projects/practicals should be awarded 100% to further level the playing field (I didn't agree with decison initially but now think it should be all or nothing)

Positives from the current situation for students (the negatives are well documented):
1. Extra study time
2. Most students have a passing grade achieved in at least one subject
3. A chance to see if you are adept at independent study as you will need to be at third level rather than finding out you hate this way of working six months (and fees paid) later
4. One to one contact with teachers via email/messaging etc that you may not have had in school

Again, not denying the negatives but I do feel strongly that in the long term proceeding with the exams if possible is best all round.

Calling it off would be insane, and as the parent of a 6th year I’m incredibly stressed and angry about the media clamour to force this. What message are we sending to the youngsters - a virus which poses virtually no danger to the majority of the population, and we just throw all of normal life out the window. We’re hiding out in fear, whipped up by hysteria into a life changing overreaction. I’ve offered to volunteer as an invigilator, I’m sure others would do the same.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Benimar wrote: »

The desire for predicted grades will change once students start being awarded grades they didn’t predict they would get!

Yup.

Scoondal

Department of Education must answer questions. The minister and the civil servants. I say sack them all. They have proven that they are useless by closing primary schools for 23 weeks without health evidence.

khalessi

Scoondal wrote: »

Department of Education must answer questions. The minister and the civil servants. I say sack them all. They have proven that they are useless by closing primary schools for 23 weeks without health evidence.

So the fact that there is a PANDEMIC has skipped your attention totally

Multipass

And another thing - fears for their safety? By August I guarantee you that teenagers will be socializing, and meeting up in large groups. In fact I’d be surprised if parties don’t start up again by June. And the leaving cert will be gone for absolutely no reason.

History Queen

Scoondal wrote: »

Department of Education must answer questions. The minister and the civil servants. I say sack them all. They have proven that they are useless by closing primary schools for 23 weeks without health evidence.

Give it over! You were just bashing teachers on another thread, now you're flat out lying here or deluded I can't decide. No health evidence?

Beasty

Scoondal wrote: »

They do 2 hours work at a salary of €35000. and they need their holidays in July and August. That is not fair for ordinary citizens.

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

Total utter rubbish nonsense post.:rolleyes:

I bet most of them don't even bother with an hour of any kind of online work.;)

Cut out the teacher-bashing, or I'll remove posting privileges

History Queen

Multipass wrote: »

And another thing - fears for their safety? By August I guarantee you that teenagers will be socializing, and meeting up in large groups. In fact I’d be surprised if parties don’t start up again by June. And the leaving cert will be gone for absolutely no reason.

Have to say I think this too... knock on effect of cancelling will be huge...

Scoondal

Benimar wrote: »

The desire for predicted grades will change once students start being awarded grades they didn’t predict they would get!

Haha, it's all a farce. The class of 2020 will be regarded with mild suspicion.
Thank you (not) Ireland.

Scoondal

Multipass wrote: »

And another thing - fears for their safety? By August I guarantee you that teenagers will be socializing, and meeting up in large groups. In fact I’d be surprised if parties don’t start up again by June. And the leaving cert will be gone for absolutely no reason.

Teachers remain on full salaries.

History Queen

Scoondal wrote: »

Teachers remain on full salaries.

As does every other worker working from home. What is your point?

khalessi

Multipass wrote: »

And another thing - fears for their safety? By August I guarantee you that teenagers will be socializing, and meeting up in large groups. In fact I’d be surprised if parties don’t start up again by June. And the leaving cert will be gone for absolutely no reason.

This may be true because parents are too afraid and lazy to say no. No socialising no hanging out with mates. A school however will have to follow directives on social distancing etc.

Scoondal

There is no evidence of Covid9 being spread by under 10 year olds. If teachers have a problem they can wear full PPE including face masks. Children under ten years old are not spreading this virus. There is no published medical report in any country. If any Irish teacher has a problem about working in June, they should provide a medical document to their employer.

iamwhoiam

khalessi wrote: »

In my classroom the windows dont open properly for good ventilation something to do with health and safety, apparently we didn't want to lose a kid out of a window. Of course you will take as a teacher creating difficulties, sadly I didnt design the school. They open at an angle and the children constantly complain about the lack of air. We were sweltered last year with all the windows open, it was dreadful.

Of course you have no idea how I would take that fact . I didn’t at any stage think a teacher would be designing a school
We had windows in our ward in a paeds hospital that barely let air in ! A very poor design by someone but certainly not by a nurse .
Madness not to have good ventilation in a school or a hospital in my opinion
After I saw the virologist explain how a virus could drop to the floor in a through draught or hang in the air in a warm poorly ventilated room I fling my windows wide open !!
It might not kill Covid but its an added precaution I suppose .
The thought struck me when I saw it was anyone opening up building to allow the air through them before reopening them after so long closed up ?

khalessi

Scoondal wrote: »

There is no evidence of Covid9 being spread by under 10 year olds. If teachers have a problem they can wear full PPE including face masks. Children under ten years old are not spreading this virus. There is no published medical report in any country. If any Irish teacher has a problem about working in June, they should provide a medical document to their employer.

Study realeased during week by Jihns HOpkins university would disagree with you but ya never know they might defer to the superior knowledge of a keyboard warrior. The study shows children have as much chance as adults in catching COvid19 and spread it just as easily.

khalessi

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Of course you have no idea how I would take that fact . I didn’t at any stage think a teacher would be designing a school
We had windows in our ward in a paeds hospital that barely let air in ! A very poor design by someone but certainly not by a nurse .
Madness not to have good ventilation in a school or a hospital in my opinion
After I saw the virologist explain how a virus could drop to the floor in a through draught or hang in the air in a warm poorly ventilated room I fling my windows wide open !!
It might not kill Covid but its an added precaution I suppose .
The thought struck me when I saw it was anyone opening up building to allow the air through them before reopening them after so long closed up ?

I know I was nurse too, ludicrous they dont ask the people who work in the building about design

iamwhoiam

If there are plans to bring back schools in September I think they should start by allowing 2-3 kids play together first. That way they can maybe judge if its spreading faster if kids play and interact

Multipass

khalessi wrote: »

This may be true because parents are too afraid and lazy to say no. No socialising no hanging out with mates. A school however will have to follow directives on social distancing etc.

Really, my son sitting the leaving cert is 19 - an adult, so I’m not interested in telling him no. Nor would I because I don’t believe it is necessary. Social distancing will be over by August, people are not going to live in fear for that long. As far as I can see when I’m out, it’s practically over already, and a good thing too.

khalessi

Multipass wrote: »

Really, my son sitting the leaving cert is 19 - an adult, so I’m not interested in telling him no. Nor would I because I don’t believe it is necessary. Social distancing will be over by August, people are not going to live in fear for that long. As far as I can see when I’m out, it’s practically over already, and a good thing too.

He is adult at 18 but there is respect for parents and house rules that children show take heed of and as a responsible 19 year old adult I would expect him to pay heed to social distancing etc thinking of others in the house, You lead by example. But then it is a different world, respect and manners are out of fashion.

VinLieger

Scoondal wrote: »

There is no evidence of Covid9 being spread by under 10 year olds. If teachers have a problem they can wear full PPE including face masks. Children under ten years old are not spreading this virus. There is no published medical report in any country. If any Irish teacher has a problem about working in June, they should provide a medical document to their employer.

There is also no evidence that children under 10 years old cant breathe in space.....