How will schools be able to go back in September?

SusanC10

Long_Wave wrote: »

Schools should be opened tommorow imo. The whole idea is to stop the spread so that hospitals wouldn't be overwhelmed at once but the hospitals seem to be empy at the moment with the vast majority of covid 19 cases within the 4 walls of nursing homes.

I don't know where you are getting this from. A friend of ours works in one of the main Dublin Hospitals and told me last weekend that the hospital they work in is full in terms of beds for this Virus. Also that otherwise healthy people in their 30s and 40s are on ventilators.

iamwhoiam

khalessi wrote: »

Regardless, what plan do you have for reopening them for over a million students? I didnt expect them to be closed forever

The million are not all in one school
Each school should be right now trying to figure it out for their own situation . Instead of finding obstacles try finding solutions
Its not up to us to plan its up to the school managers and teachers
Just as hospitals planned for their emergency and jumped through hoops to keep us safe
Each business and school and office has to plan ahead and it should be discussed now and planned ahead

r93kaey5p2izun

iamwhoiam wrote: »

The million are not all in one school
Each school should be right now trying to figure it out for their own situation . Instead of finding obstacles try finding solutions

Without specific health advice on the measures required to open, schools have no parameters within which to plan. There is zero point making plans to accommodate half of all students in a day, if the health advice then necessitates accommodation of only one year group per day. The two scenarios are poles apart in terms of physical space, furniture arrangement, teaching allocation, lunch facilities, toilet facilities, cleaning requirements, transport arrangements, plans to accommodate all of one family group at the same time, arrangements for remote teaching the at-home group. Without basic guidelines on safety precautions required, an infinite number of plans would be required

It's a ludicrous suggestion.

vid36

It makes more sense to open the schools earlier in August than trying to bring students back once a week for the remainder of the term.All you are doing is increasing the rate of viral transmission for very little academic benefit.

iamwhoiam

Yosef Stocky Backspace wrote: »

Without specific health advice on the measures required to open, schools have no parameters within which to plan. There is zero point making plans to accommodate half of all students in a day, if the health advice then necessitates accommodation of only one year group per day. The two scenarios are poles apart in terms of physical space, furniture arrangement, teaching allocation, lunch facilities, toilet facilities, cleaning requirements, transport arrangements, plans to accommodate all of one family group at the same time, arrangements for remote teaching the at-home group. Without basic guidelines on safety precautions required, an infinite number of plans would be required

It's a ludicrous suggestion.

I never mentioned one day a week in my post . I was answering a poster who asked how we planned to get the million kids back. Its not up to us posters to plan it its up to schools managers , staff and unions

Forward planning is the key . Surely its up to each individual school to put in an effort with guidlines and suggestions ?
Personally I think it should all be in place before they go back and it would be better to wait until August and be ready
But it takes effort and input and work

r93kaey5p2izun

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I never mentioned one day a week in my post . I was answering a poster who asked how we planned to get the million kids back. Its not up to us posters to plan it its up to schools managers , staff and unions

Forward planning is the key . Surely its up to each individual school to put in an effort with guidlines and suggestions ?
Personally I think it should all be in place before they go back and it would be better to wait until August and be ready
But it takes effort and input and work

My point is that without health guidelines schools, teachers, unions etc cannot possibly make any plans or suggestions. One day a week or 5 days a week is irrelevant to that point, other than to underline the massive scale of the uncertainty over what may be possible according to health authorities. If they don't give an indication of how much students and staff need to keep away from each other, or about the level of cleaning required in order for individuals to share furniture and objects, or about who exactly may be deemed too at risk to mix in public, then we are left with an infinite number of possible scenarios to consider and plan for. Education personnel are in no position to gauge the health risks or prevention measures required. They need to be told : plan for how to operate with everyone having min 4m2 personal space and everyone only mixing with the same max 8 people at any time and at least 2 rows distance between passengers on a bus; or plan how to operate with everyone having their own desk, and own seat on a bus but no issues mixing beyond that; etc.

iamwhoiam

Yosef Stocky Backspace wrote: »

My point is that without health guidelines schools, teachers, unions etc cannot possibly make any plans or suggestions. One day a week or 5 days a week is irrelevant to that point, other than to underline the massive lscale of the uncertainty over what may be possible according to health authorities. If they don't give an indication of how much students and staff need to keep away from each other, or about the level of cleaning required in order for individuals to share furniture and objects, or about who exactly may be deemed too at risk to mix in public, then we are left with an infinite number of possible scenarios to consider and plan for. Education personnel are in no position to gauge the health risks or prevention measures required. They need to be told : plan for how to operate with everyone having min 4m2 personal space and everyone only mixing with the same max 8 people at any time and at least 2 rows distance between passengers on a bus; or plan how to operate with everyone having their own desk, and own seat on a bus but no issues mixing beyond that; etc.

Yes . Absolutely they will need guidance and guidelines so its a good idea to start now and get the planning started

r93kaey5p2izun

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Yes . Absolutely they will need guidance and guidelines so its a good idea to start now and get the planning started

But the health authorities must start with their guidelines first. Until that happens schools cannot make plans or suggestions. All schools can do until health authorities give them guidelines, is manage operation under current requirements of the lockdown and school closure. Schools cannot get the planning started for reopening.

iamwhoiam

Yosef Stocky Backspace wrote: »

But the health authorities must start with their guidelines first. Until that happens schools cannot make plans or suggestions. All schools can do until health authorities give them guidelines, is manage operation under current requirements of the lockdown and school closure. Schools cannot get the planning started for reopening.

I am quite sure that staff could start by outlining their concerns , their suggestions , their ideas etc
Try finding solutions not obstacles . The hospitals did , the supermarkets did , so I am sure a room full of teachers can at very least outline childrens needs and make suggestions

jrosen

A plan is a 2 way street. There is no point individual schools doing nothing and waiting until guidelines are ready. Schools should be planning based on their size, class size, students base. They should be highlighting their concerns at planning. Otherwise the guidelines will come through, schools will then object for many reasons and its all back to square 1.

Right now teachers and principals are the ones that know their schools and their students best.

iamwhoiam

jrosen wrote: »

A plan is a 2 way street. There is no point individual schools doing nothing and waiting until guidelines are ready. Schools should be planning based on their size, class size, students base. They should be highlighting their concerns at planning. Otherwise the guidelines will come through, schools will then object for many reasons and its all back to square 1.

Right now teachers and principals are the ones that know their schools and their students best.

Exactly .Just today I spoke to a teacher whose principal is putting out feelers and asking her staff if they could think about concerns or solutions etc . Asking for input into the needs of her specific class and pupils
A proactive and concerned principal who is altready thinking ahead

r93kaey5p2izun

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I am quite sure that staff could start by outlining their concerns , their suggestions , their ideas etc
Try finding solutions not obstacles . The hospitals did , the supermarkets did , so I am sure a room full of teachers can at very least outline childrens needs and make suggestions

And I think that's a backwards and inefficient way of doing things. Neither supermarkets nor hospitals were closed - they made plans for operation under current social distancing requirements, not possible future requirements. Just as schools made plans for operation under current requirements which included forced closure.

The tens of thousands of teachers in thousands of schools across the country can of course make millions of suggestions and outline children's needs - they are already doing just that. It's all an exercise in futility until health led decisions are made on prevention measures required. Decisions must be health led and then we work within that framework to deliver the best possible outcome for students within those parameters.

iguana

History Queen wrote: »

Was that evidence not just based on one child not spreading? I wasn't aware there was widespread evidence of this. I did a quick google there and couldn't find it, can u send on a link please?

It was in the report of the WHO-China Joint Mission on
Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) that was published in February. You can find it and read through it. But the specific paragraph on transmission from children reads; "The Joint Mission learned that infected children have largely been identified through contact tracing in households of adults. Of note, people interviewed by the Joint Mission Team could not recall episodes in which transmission occurred from a child to an adult." The German study into the boy infected in Austria only backs up the WHO's early findings from China.

It was still right that we closed schools when we did, the early data could have proved as wrong as the early indications about lack of asymptomatic spread. But right now, the smartest thing to do would be to make no changes for children until we know more about if it really is true that they are not spreaders and then let them return to schools that are as near to normal as possible in September.

Birdy

khalessi wrote: »

How do you plan to open the schools safely for over 1 million students?

509k children in 3,000 primary schools. Around 32,000 teachers.

For a so called teacher, you spend a lot of time on here shooting down anyone who suggests reopening schools. Harris and Varadkar have as good as said they will be. YOU should be planning how you can implement social distancing in your school and classroom.

SusanC10

iguana wrote: »

It was still right that we closed schools when we did, the early data could have proved as wrong as the early indications about lack of asymptomatic spread. But right now, the smartest thing to do would be to make no changes for children until we know more about if it really is true that they are not spreaders and then let them return to schools that are as near to normal as possible in September.

This is really the right way to deal with things. We need more information.

History Queen

jrosen wrote: »

A plan is a 2 way street. There is no point individual schools doing nothing and waiting until guidelines are ready. Schools should be planning based on their size, class size, students base. They should be highlighting their concerns at planning. Otherwise the guidelines will come through, schools will then object for many reasons and its all back to square 1.

Right now teachers and principals are the ones that know their schools and their students best.

And teachers in many cases have highlighted issues and concerns to principals/unions who in turn have raised issues with ETBs/the Dept/the Minister.Now we need to get guidelines so we can move forward.

Don't assume because you are not privy to this work that it is not happening

History Queen

iguana wrote: »

It was in the report of the WHO-China Joint Mission on
Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) that was published in February. You can find it and read through it. But the specific paragraph on transmission from children reads; "The Joint Mission learned that infected children have largely been identified through contact tracing in households of adults. Of note, people interviewed by the Joint Mission Team could not recall episodes in which transmission occurred from a child to an adult." The German study into the boy infected in Austria only backs up the WHO's early findings from China.

It was still right that we closed schools when we did, the early data could have proved as wrong as the early indications about lack of asymptomatic spread. But right now, the smartest thing to do would be to make no changes for children until we know more about if it really is true that they are not spreaders and then let them return to schools that are as near to normal as possible in September.

Thanks for that I'll look it up. It was the German study I was familiar with. Thanks again.

Murple

Birdy wrote: »

509k children in 3,000 primary schools. Around 32,000 teachers.

For a so called teacher, you spend a lot of time on here shooting down anyone who suggests reopening schools. Harris and Varadkar have as good as said they will be. YOU should be planning how you can implement social distancing in your school and classroom.

Primary schools alone- over 559,000 children, over 37,000 teachers, over 10,000 SNA in more than 3,200 schools. You can also add in non teaching principals, secretaries and caretakers. Also add in bus drivers for many rural school based children and parents who would be bringing children to school and collecting them. You are looking at mobilising and mixing close to a million people.

It is next to impossible to implement social distancing with younger children in primary school. Aside from the fact they would have no idea of how far 2 metres is, they also have no regard for personal space in general and operate largely on impulse. Most classrooms would only be big enough to allow 4-6 pupils at a time while maintaining social distancing. Toilet facilities are not adequate enough to allow for this when one toilet block of 3-4 toilets is shared between 3 or 4 classes.
The problem is teachers are fully aware of the obstacles there are and this early who don't work in schools aren't. It's very easy to tell teachers to plan for implementing social distancing but as it stands, unless social distancing regulations change, it isn't possible to reopen schools and maintain social distancing properly.

CinemaGuy45

Murple wrote: »

Primary schools alone- over 559,000 children, over 37,000 teachers, over 10,000 SNA in more than 3,200 schools. You can also add in non teaching principals, secretaries and caretakers. Also add in bus drivers for many rural school based children and parents who would be bringing children to school and collecting them. You are looking at mobilising and mixing close to a million people.

It is next to impossible to implement social distancing with younger children in primary school. Aside from the fact they would have no idea of how far 2 metres is, they also have no regard for personal space in general and operate largely on impulse. Most classrooms would only be big enough to allow 4-6 pupils at a time while maintaining social distancing. Toilet facilities are not adequate enough to allow for this when one toilet block of 3-4 toilets is shared between 3 or 4 classes.
The problem is teachers are fully aware of the obstacles there are and this early who don't work in schools aren't. It's very easy to tell teachers to plan for implementing social distancing but as it stands, unless social distancing regulations change, it isn't possible to reopen schools and maintain social distancing properly.

The focus must shift to protect the remaining care homes that have not suffered an outbreak and keeping elderly cocooned.

The schools need to get back to business in September let this thing spread among the kids and get it over with.

TheValeyard

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

The focus must shift to protect the remaining care homes that have not suffered an outbreak and keeping elderly cocooned.

The schools need to get back to business in September let this thing spread among the kids and get it over with.

As a matter of interest you working from home or where?

CinemaGuy45

TheValeyard wrote: »

As a matter of interest you working from home or where?

Working from work with many other people.

TheValeyard

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

Working from work with many other people.

Which work is that?

CinemaGuy45

TheValeyard wrote: »

Which work is that?

A job listed as essential FOOD not going to say more as I do not want to be doxed.

jimmytwotimes 2013

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

A job listed as essential FOOD not going to say more as I do not want to be doxed.

Have they changed the sauce on the Whopper? They taste fair different these days

r93kaey5p2izun

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

The focus must shift to protect the remaining care homes that have not suffered an outbreak and keeping elderly cocooned.

The schools need to get back to business in September let this thing spread among the kids and get it over with.

Do you think it's feasible to rehouse the thousands of people who live with the over 70s? If not, how will they cocoon in any meaningful way once their cohabitants are back in school and work?

CinemaGuy45

Yosef Stocky Backspace wrote: »

Do you think it's feasible to rehouse the thousands of people who live with the over 70s? If not, how will they cocoon in any meaningful way once their cohabitants are back in school and work?

How many school children or teachers live with the over 70s?

A solution will have to be found we can not stay on lockdown forever.

r93kaey5p2izun

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

How many school children or teachers live with the over 70s?

A solution will have to be found we can not stay on lockdown forever.

Given the housing situation, a lot of teachers and school children live in multigenerational households with elderly people. But I wasn't referring just to students and teachers, more generally. Once schools are open everyone else will be working too. And yes, some may already be working while living with elderly family. And that's not ideal as it means the elderly person is essentially not cocooned, but the risk of bringing the virus home to them will then be higher than it us now as the spread of infection will obviously increase once everyone is on the move again.

Yes, a solution will have to be found. This is the scenario you are suggesting, I was wondering what your solution is?

CinemaGuy45

Yosef Stocky Backspace wrote: »

Given the housing situation, a lot of teachers and school children live in multigenerational households with elderly people. But I wasn't referring just to students and teachers, more generally. Once schools are open everyone else will be working too. And yes, some may already be working while living with elderly family. And that's not ideal as it means the elderly person is essentially not cocooned, but the risk of bringing the virus home to them will then be higher than it us now as the spread of infection will obviously increase once everyone is on the move again.

Yes, a solution will have to be found. This is the scenario you are suggesting, I was wondering what your solution is?

There is no solution to get out of this without some real pain but saying in lockdown past September is not viable schools need to reopen.

Do you think the Government should keep paying teachers full pay if the schools stay shut?

r93kaey5p2izun

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

There is no solution to get out of this without some real pain but saying in lockdown past September is not viable schools need to reopen.

You keep saying schools need to reopen to me as if I disagree? I just want to know how you plan to effectively cocoon the elderly once lockdown ends and schools and workplaces reopen. You think that is the most important thing we should focus on - protecting the elderly. I'm just interested in how you see that happening given so many elderly people live with not elderly people? What pain do you envisage? Sacrificing the elderly who don't live alone? Or massive rehousing costs?

jimmytwotimes 2013

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

Do you think the Government should keep paying teachers full pay if the schools stay shut?

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