R Kings and other car raffles

Miscreant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119741648#Comment_119741648

Best of luck with the draw @beertons . I've been in a similar position before with work and hopefully that good fortune will come your way.

littlevillage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119741648#Comment_119741648

Seems a remarkable coincidence to have 3 winners in what I assume is a small to medium sized company. I wonder what's their secret?

You didn't happen to enquire how much they have gambled on RKings over the years?

Or if they might have some other "conection" at play?

beertons

I know yer man bought 20 tickets for the rs6, they were cheap though, think it cost a score.

I didn't ask how long or how much they spent. That's why I don't keep count of what I've spent on the lotto. Or smokes. Lord, I'd have a G Wagon.

I will ask him how saucy the VRT was.

rodge123

Has anybody ever entered the competitions via the free postcard route and checked that they actually were entered into the draw?

If so, thinking it’s worth doing for some of the draws that have a long lead in time to draw date. For example some of the McKinney ones have over two weeks until the draw at times. And in particular worth while for the big prize draws that have high entry cost.

I see they ask for an unenclosed postcard that had to have all your details like name, address, email, phone number. Guessing to discourage people as they might not want that info visible to everyone via a postcard.

rodge123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119815010#Comment_119815010

So I tried this and sent a postcard last Thursday to them for a completion that was on tonight. And surprise, surprise…my name was not mentioned in the entries list that were listed 15 minutes before the draw!

Now, of course it’s possible they didn’t get my postcard on time, but how likely is that? 6 days from Ireland to Northern Ireland.

Ill reserve full judgement until I see if a few more postcards that I sent for different comps are ignored, with even longer time to get to them before competitions are drawn.

rodge123

So my free postcard entry for the M3 also hadn’t been entered tonight, posted it over 11 days ago. Me thinks these McKinney guys make be breaking gambling regulations. Waiting for a reply from them.

knucklehead6

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119892264#Comment_119892264

They probably have a get out clause in section 3.10-h

• (h) if the number of paid entries reaches any cap or limit before your free entry is received, you will not be entered into the random draw.

Now whether or not this cap or limit should be public is another thing

rodge123

Well I imagine this limit/cap is the max number of entries they mention for each competition. It usually only gets hit a few hours before the draw from what I can see and I know that it wasn’t met with at least one of the competitions I entered. Regardless, my entry was sent over 11 days ago and they couldn’t possibly claim they didn’t receive until say 1 hour before the draw!

knucklehead6

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119892839#Comment_119892839

If I was running a draw where I’m giving away a car worth €20k or however much (I see they have a raptor up or 35k equivalent) then there’s not a snowballs chance in hell I’d allow for every single entry to be potentially free. Not a hope. They’re running a business, not a charity.

I’d say they allow no more than 100 free entries per draw.

rodge123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119892850#Comment_119892850

Yes of course it would be impossible run it if everyone entered through the free route. The question is though are they then breaking gambling regulations that allow them have there’s type of draws in the first place.

They are only allowed run the business because of the regulations stating they must allow free entries.

I’ve emailed them for clarification on why my entries were not in.

knucklehead6

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119892928#Comment_119892928

I’d be interested in hearing what they have to say myself.

but to be fair to them the last time they had a raptor up I got a text message or email can’t remember which offering me 30% off in the last hour before the draw. When I went to enter I was charged the amount I expected but within 15 minutes I got another email saying they’d had a glitch and even though I was charged my ticket hadn’t gone through so I wasn’t entered. They offered me the choice of a full refund OR 2 free entries into the next competition for a hilux invincible. They gave me 24 hours to respond and said without a response they’d take it as agreement for the entries.

when I checked THAT competition I was entered twice, so I’d say they’re on the level.

it would be clearer though if they stated how many free entries there are per competition.

Meeoow

I entered a McKinney competition once. They kept sending me unsolicited texts afterwards about upcoming draws. I did the unsubscribe on the message each time, but kept receiving texts even though I had unsubscribed. I Facebook messaged them to ask them to stop the unsolicited texts. They were quite ignorant about it. I wouldn't deal with them again. I think they are a bit cheeky.

monkey1234

Having bought quite a number of tickets over the last two years, my name finally came out. I won cash in a 99p draw, R kings contacted me straight after the draw and money was lodged the following week. Thrilled with the win , I was completely shocked when they rang .

JackDee123

I see McKinney's are doing a Villa in Portugal / £1 million competition. Its all over facebook and the papers and they even have that Gemma Collins from Big Brother promoting it. Anyone done any postal entries or bought any tickets yet?

rodge123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121018760#Comment_121018760

Yeah done the postal entries a few times and they never entered me into draws…free entry route is a scam from my experience. They are genuine though with the prizes, an old friend of mine won a 120k from them ages ago.

JackDee123

Interesting.

Someone should do something about all these companies who are then running illegal unlicensed commercial lotteries, by not either having a genuine skill required to get entered into the prize draw, or that are not operating a genuine free entry route.

(McKinney’s question for this Villa in Portugal / £1m prize is:

What’s the capital of Portugal?

Lisbon, Moscow or Sydney

…… that’s at best, a £100 starter level question in “Who wants to be a millionaire” and would certainly be highly unlikely to be successfully argued in court, as being of the required skill/knowledge level to avoid the need for a free entry route, so as not to be an illegal unlicensed lottery being run for commercial gain.

It would be relatively easy for someone to build sufficient evidence, to prove the ones that are not complying with the alternative requirement to provide a “genuine free entry route” that would pass the “reasonable prospect of securing a successful prosecution” test and it would clearly be in the public interest to bring to task companies that are operating illegally, some on a vast scale (this current competition of McKinneys looks like a £6m plus criminal enterprise, if they are actively doing what you believe). Both of these, tests above, are the criteria that the PPS look for when considering whether a case should be brought before the courts.

Risky game some of these folks could be playing themselves.

JackDee123

Actually, I was just thinking….. if what you say you believe is happening and therefore it really is an unlicensed illegal lottery being run for commercial gain, then Gemma Collins is potentially committing a serious offence by promoting it…… the press would have a field day with that whole debacle, I’m sure!

Could be a total disaster for all concerned.

I guess there’s no end to the unnecessary risks and lengths some company’s will go to, out of sheer greed.

M3CS

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121019285#Comment_121019285

Are you going to do something about it?

Titzon Toast

My friend won an RS6 estate on one of these draws a few weeks ago.

He chose the cash alternative.

hoodie6029

I think there is something in the law that you can’t do straight raffle without a licence, it has to include a test of skill, i.e. a stupid question to side step the need for a licence and oversight.

After the two lads a couple of years ago accidentally exposed their dodgy draw on a Facebook live stream a few years ago, I don’t know who would enter these after that.

Remember a local lad one a car on a small time raffle on Facebook years back. Few weeks later the nice car is gone. Found out that he’s gotten a few quid to drive it around for a few weeks and say he won it to drum up business. Once the time was up the car was moved on to England for another ‘raffle’ with a different group.

JackDee123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121021932#Comment_121021932

Do you think I should? Would you gather concrete evidence too.......the more sources, the stronger the evidence base.

JackDee123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121022743#Comment_121022743

As previously mentioned on here, the "test" applied to confirm if the skill or knowledge required in any paid to enter prize draw competition is "sufficient", is (in layman terms):

Does it cause a significant number of people to choose not to enter, because they are "put off" by how hard / difficult it is.

Or do a significant number of people who choose to enter, end up failing the skill/knowledge part (" do they end up getting the question wrong"), and thus not making it into the random prize draw part.

If the "challenge" set to enter into a prize draw competition, is so low, that virtually everyone gets it correct, then it would fail this test. While the word "significant" hasn't been defined or quantified specifically by the Gambling Commission, its likely to be confirmed by any legal professional, that a number of less than 1% would not be considered significant. (1% being "put off" or "getting it wrong", would probably be on the very high side of any estimate I'd make in relation to these very simple questions.....a court could probably ask for an independent test be run on a number of the questions a company used, or ask for credible experts to quantify the real world "failure rate" and "put off" rates, if a company wished to try to make a case that they believed it to be higher). Basically, anyone believing that these very simple questions give them any form of "legal cover", if they are found to not be genuinely providing a "free entry route" which is your only other option to avoid being an illegal, unlicensed lottery being run for commercial gain, are only kidding themselves.....hence my previous statement that some of these company's are playing a very risky game with the authorities (Russian Roulette, perhaps).

JackDee123

However, in doing some research around this, I did find that there is a perceived "Value" to the entrant in being asked a question, rather than simply being entered into a prize draw by "paying and then praying". An entrant who has to answer even a very simple question, can form a view that they have perhaps slightly better odds than being able to enter without answering one, as perhaps a few people here and there will accidentally pick the wrong answer, or actually get it wrong through inattention or some other reason (they could be "on the drink" and read it wrong or whatever) and then there is "one less" person competing against them in the random draw......that's why, I'd personally prefer to enter a "Question style competition with prize draw", rather than just a straight raffle without any question. (But a few wrong answers here and there, out of what are often thousands of entrants, again would unlikely be considered "significant" for the purposes of giving "legal cover", but would give a "marginal increase" to a players odds.).

The research I read also mentioned that some people feel like they have a slightly enhanced connection to the whole experience, because they had to do a simple task as part of it. So, asking a simple question, does have merit, but not the one that people might think (legal protection).

Apparently, the task of "picking your own numbers" in the National Lottery, gives people a feeling that they have some form of connection to the game and can perhaps use their "lucky number" or numbers that mean something to them, to influence the outcome (even though we all know in reality its pure randomness).....its just a psychological thing. In these competitions, they don't typically let you choose your numbers, as that risks it being defined as "betting" by the gambling commission (as you are in effect placing a bet that your chosen number will be drawn). If a number is randomly allocated to you for your ticket, after you have paid, then you are not betting on a number. So, as they can't legally let you chose your numbers, allowing you to answer a simple question, can instead, give a player, a similar belief that they can in someway influence their outcome (even though 99.9% or higher, are likely to pass that test and be in the random draw!)

The more you look into this whole area, the more you realise that the laws around this are quite nuanced. Make a slight change here or there to how you operate your draw, without understanding the laws exactly, and "bang", your the wrong side of it.

I'm surprised there are so many people in these businesses, because they are much more complicated to operate within the law than you would think......unless they are like "Mecca" for those who think they can make a quick buck and don't worry about what might come down the road.....or maybe they all think they can point at the others operating the exact same and say "I thought I was doing it all legally, because I was copying what themin's were doing"???

Henry Ford III

Any truth in the rumours of potential money laundering and links to subversives and organised crime?

celt262

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121024495#Comment_121024495

Would it not need to be a cash business to be able to launder money?

hoodie6029

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121024513#Comment_121024513

Cash is only for small timers. Plenty of crims are tied up to the London financial centre and move their money through their people there who work and own hedge funds and private equity firms.

JackDee123

I’d doubt if there are many, if any, of these businesses involved in money laundering. It would be very difficult to do, as pretty much 100% of the money comes to them via card processors, where there is (at least meant to be) humans and systems monitoring for “transaction laundering”, so anyone at that craic would need to either know how to avoid the red flags, or be operating with a “friendly” processor who was helping them avoid detection/happy to turn a blind eye to it.

JackDee123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119892850#Comment_119892850

You see, this is what's fundamentally wrong with this industry. Many promoters appear to view those that choose to enter via the "free alternative route" as nothing more than spongers, that are trying to "steal" from them, and therefore they may not treat them as fairly as they should.

The reality is that those free entrants, are the very reason why they are given permission under the law to be allowed to operate this type of business at all. So they should in a way, welcome them......its up to them to make their competition so attractive and compelling, that more people will choose to pay, for the convenience of online entry, rather than opt for a "free postal" entry.

Really, they should view having to offer and actually genuinely process entries via an alternative free entry method, such as by ordinary post, as being akin to paying a licence fee to be allowed to operate this "not lottery", but "really a lottery", business.

The companies who don't get this, are, I'm sorry to say, most likely doomed, in the long term...... the government are currently reviewing the Gambling Act 2005 and are particularly looking at how they can amend it to deal with rogue elements within the paid prize draw and competition market.......one such proposal is to put a restriction, that the most they can offer per prize is £25,000 and they could sell no more than £1m of tickets per year......that would put the "kibosh" on many of these guys.......... I guess, they will only have themselves to blame, if such restrictions come into effect.......they had the opportunity to "become as big as they wanted", but most appear to have forgotten, that it comes with a quasi "licensing fee", paid per competition, to "the people" on a variable basis.

"As ye sow, ye shall reap", very much comes to mind!

corks finest

if you’d care to actually look properly at tbe post I was referring to langer

you’d not need to be such a silly maneen

JackDee123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121027514#Comment_121027514

Very sorry for not knowing that, but without you "linking a quote" to your conversation with Langer in this now 58 page long thread, it was pretty much impossible to understand the relevance of your comment (without searching all of the 57 previous pages to find it!). Anyway, do you have any thoughts on the "current topic" of this revived thread, or did you wish to only see how your old mate "Langer" was getting on, from God knows how many years ago, on this topic?