Whatever happened to the housing crisis ?

ELM327

efanton wrote: »

But that ignores the biggest problem. Most working couples simply do not qualify for a mortgage. If they cant buy a home they obviously they turn to social housing. Until this country adopts a system where tenancies are longer or more secure can you blame young couples from immediately turning to social housing as a solution to their housing needs if they already know they will never be in a position to get a mortgage.

The government doesn't help either. Nearly 45% of the cost of a new home goes back to the government in one form or another through VAT, stamp duty, connection fees and planning.
If the government is artificially increasing the cost of building a home through taxes and charges, is it not unreasonable to think that they should reduce the taxes on new builds, provide housing for those that cannot afford to buy homes or adjust tenancy laws so that those renting and have not missed payments have increased security of tenure and not faced with the fear that at the end of every years tenancy they will become homeless? Why would anyone in the right mind rent a private property in Ireland unless that had absolutely no other option. Again the government could address this by decreasing the taxes on rents. For most essential services or necessities that are required for even a minimal standard of living (food, electricity, fuel, medicines etc etc) they are charged at the lower VAT rate. Yet something as essential as a home whether bought or rented is charged at the 23% rate.

People can afford houses just fine.
They just can't afford the houses they want in the areas they want.


Have a look on Daft, there's plenty of 2/3 bed semis in Leinster near a rail track, bus route, or motorway less than 1 hour to Dublin, for under 100k

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

......


Have a look on Daft, there's plenty of 2/3 bed semis in Leinster near a rail track, bus route, or motorway less than 1 hour to Dublin, for under 100k

Is there ?

There's 128 2/3 bed houses in the entire country for under €100k on daft.

ELM327

Augeo wrote: »

Is there ?

There's 128 2/3 bed houses in the entire country for under €100k on daft.

Usually there's a lot more. Perhaps 125 is needed.
Even so, 125k needs only a combined income of 36k under the rules. Two people on minimum wage could buy that.


Here's a perfectly serviceable house for less than 100k just off the M1.
https://www.daft.ie/louth/houses-for-sale/carlingford/millgrange-carlingford-louth-2435262/
Not pretty inside but I've seen rentals in worse condition.

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

...........

Here's a perfectly serviceable house for less than 100k just off the M1.
https://www.daft.ie/louth/houses-for-sale/carlingford/millgrange-carlingford-louth-2435262/
Not pretty inside but I've seen rentals in worse condition.

Is that less then an hour to Dublin?

ELM327

1hr 11 mins apparently
But if you're on minimum wage and didnt want to spend 1 hour commuting each way you could find work in Drogheda, Ardee, Dundalk etc

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

..........there's plenty of 2/3 bed semis in Leinster near a rail track, bus route, or motorway less than 1 hour to Dublin, for under 100k

ELM327 wrote: »

Usually there's a lot more. Perhaps 125 is needed.
Even so, 125k needs only a combined income of 36k under the rules. Two people on minimum wage could buy that.


............

ELM327 wrote: »

1hr 11 mins apparently
But if you're on minimum wage and didnt want to spend 1 hour commuting each way you could find work in Drogheda, Ardee, Dundalk etc

But if/when locals buy up that small amount of houses what about all the folk in Dublin who need houses?
There isn't loads of sub 125k houses within an hour of Dublin to go around.

Suggesting folk live somewhere to buy a cheap house and then take up a local low paid job to avoid commuting is not a great idea. Loads of folk plan to have kids. Raising kids on two miniimum wage jobs is less then fun I'd imagine.

Eric Cartman

Augeo wrote: »

But if/when locals buy up that small amount of houses what about all the folk in Dublin who need houses?
There isn't loads of sub 125k houses within an hour of Dublin to go around.

Suggesting folk live somewhere to buy a cheap house and then take up a local low paid job to avoid commuting is not a great idea. Loads of folk plan to have kids. Raising kids on two miniimum wage jobs is less then fun I'd imagine.

then you have the additional problem of that commute becoming longer as more people move out to these cheap houses, then the complaint from the greens that people are taking the car, the bus service that never appears despite promises etc....

people need to get to Dublin for their work, theres a hell of a lot of factors that mean it'll take almost a decade to change that even if we started now, why anyone thinks being all the way up in Carlingford, Gorey, newbridge etc.. is the solution is beyond me.

ELM327

Augeo wrote: »

But if/when locals buy up that small amount of houses what about all the folk in Dublin who need houses?
There isn't loads of sub 125k houses within an hour of Dublin to go around.

Suggesting folk live somewhere to buy a cheap house and then take up a local low paid job to avoid commuting is not a great idea. Loads of folk plan to have kids. Raising kids on two miniimum wage jobs is less then fun I'd imagine.

Thats a multitude of problems, none of which are due to housing
It's not sustainable for people on min wage to live in Dublin.

Salary Negotiator

ELM327 wrote: »

1hr 11 mins apparently
But if you're on minimum wage and didnt want to spend 1 hour commuting each way you could find work in Drogheda, Ardee, Dundalk etc

I agree with your general point but that house is a bad example of a place commutable to Dublin.

I live on the south side of Dundalk and about 5 minutes from the M1 and it takes me over an hour to get to Dublin for work. That house is easily an extra 25 minutes further out.

boars

ELM327 wrote: »

1hr 11 mins apparently
But if you're on minimum wage and didnt want to spend 1 hour commuting each way you could find work in Drogheda, Ardee, Dundalk etc

You're living on another planet if you think that cottage is 1 hour 11 minutes to work in dublin- maybe in skerries. Try working anywhere inside the m50 and that commute is at the very least 1 hour 30. Realistically its probably about 1 hour 45-to 2 hours from that spot. 30 hours of driving a week at the bare minimum

But sure you could always work a minimum wage, dead-end job in Dundalk for the rest of your life in a 3 bed cottage with two kids.

suicide_circus

could we get glen hansard and damien dempsey back out to have a bash at solving the housing crisis?

Horsebox9000

Yurt! wrote: »

Remember sneery right-wing I'm alright Jack scumbaggery? Remember when that was a thing?

Oh wait, it still is a thing.

Trust the liberal to cry like a child

Horsebox9000

Yurt! wrote: »

In a time of a global health emergency, there is really only one thing to do...

Have a cut at the homeless & working-poor badly effected by a dysfunctional spiv housing market and say everything is fake.

Ireland is full of scumbags true, but it's not the ones that several posters here think they are.

Hahaha again it's you defender of the people we are so lucky to have you here oh wise one. Please fill us with more left wing "correct" ways of living

ELM327

boars wrote: »

You're living on another planet if you think that cottage is 1 hour 11 minutes to work in dublin- maybe in skerries. Try working anywhere inside the m50 and that commute is at the very least 1 hour 30. Realistically its probably about 1 hour 45-to 2 hours from that spot. 30 hours of driving a week at the bare minimum

But sure you could always work a minimum wage, dead-end job in Dundalk for the rest of your life in a 3 bed cottage with two kids.

Or you could, you know, get a better job and get a better house.

Horsebox9000

Yurt has to be one of the biggest hyprocrites ever.
If you are anyway different to him them you are the problem and you're a right wing fscist and there are no knackers claiming housing and if you say anything you're a scumbag

Huntergonzo

Horsebox9000 wrote: »

Yurt has to be one of the biggest hyprocrites ever.
If you are anyway different to him them you are the problem and you're a right wing fscist and there are no knackers claiming housing and if you say anything you're a scumbag

Wouldn't worry too much about Yurt, this is the same poster who said:

"Propose a solution that's been implemented in another country that's economically equitable, and within two posts, some galaxy brain will inevitably try to drag the conversation back to Margret f*cking Cash.

I honestly think that people who bring her up in threads are suffering from some sort of psychosis."

So there you go, anybody who even dares to suggest that someone who clogs up the system and jumps the queue might also be part of the problem is suffering from psychosis.

It's not really possible to debate with someone who 'honestly thinks' you have psychosis for making a point they don't like. Pure waste of time, you'll never reach somebody like that.

jimmyrustle

ELM327 wrote: »

People can afford houses just fine.
They just can't afford the houses they want in the areas they want.

Why should that cover ALL areas of Dublin?

Life is about more than work commute distances. Why should neo liberalism deny a Dub the opportunity to raise their children in a city, with all its superior social outlets, than in a two bit village in the sticks with feck all other kids even living there?

Why should a Dub have to kip in the mams when he goes out on the town to have a few with his old mates rather than get a taxi home to his own house?

Dublin is home for people, they should not be forced ut of it. Particularly considering people can come there from abroad and eventually obtain a subsidised house in the areas Dubs living in Louth, Cavan et al grew up in!

ELM327

If they want to live there then they should pay their way.
I'll ignore the blatant xenophobic part of your post

jimmyrustle

ELM327 wrote: »

If they want to live there then they should pay their way.
I'll ignore the blatant xenophobic part of your post

So let me get this sraight.

If a man who grows up in a local authority estate in Blanchardstown can't afford 200k for a house there, and doesn't qualify for social housing, he and hs family should move to Cavan and commute for an hour a day, pay four tolls daily, car wear and tear, petrol et al.

But some family from Somalia who do qualify (by way of either neither parent working or only one parent working, as two working parents are generally over the limits) should be granted a house in the estate in which he grew up.


Can you explain the fairness in that one? Seriously. A local commuting 2 hours a day to pay someone elses rent on a house he would gladly live in. Explain that one.

jimmyrustle

ELM327 wrote: »

If they want to live there then they should pay their way.

Nobody is saying people shuldn't pay their way.

What if "their way" was sold off?

Large swathes of Ballybrack, Shankill and Sallynoggin were built as affordable rentals for working class people.

Then they were sold off.

Now they go for anywhere from 330k to 410k.

For council housing of similar archictecture to council homes in Mullingar going for 100k, and in estates with likely far from perfect social problems

ELM327

jimmyrustle wrote: »

So let me get this sraight.

If a man who grows up in a local authority estate in Blanchardstown can't afford 200k for a house there, and doesn't qualify for social housing, he and hs family should move to Cavan and commute for an hour a day, pay four tolls daily, car wear and tear, petrol et al.

But some family from Somalia who do qualify (by way of either neither parent working or only one parent working, as two working parents are generally over the limits) should be granted a house in the estate in which he grew up.


Can you explain the fairness in that one? Seriously. A local commuting 2 hours a day to pay someone elses rent on a house he would gladly live in. Explain that one.

No one should get a free house. To take your 200k example that only requires 57k combined income. Hardly a high wage for 2 people.


We shouldnt be giving free houses to Irish people, and we certainly shouldnt be giving free houses to somalians either.



I earn more than that 57k on my own and we moved to Meath from Dublin where I lived for 10 years and still work, because we couldnt afford to buy there.

jimmyrustle

ELM327 wrote: »

No one should get a free house. To take your 200k example that only requires 57k combined income. Hardly a high wage for 2 people.

You're right actually, it isn't. I should have used an example of a man who grew up in Ballybrack forced out to Wexford.

We shouldnt be giving free houses to Irish people, and we certainly shouldnt be giving free houses to somalians either.

We shouldn't, but even scrotes have to live somewhere.

I earn more than that 57k on my own and we moved to Meath from Dublin where I lived for 10 years and still work, because we couldnt afford to buy there.

Can I ask how that situation arose? Like, how you couldn't afford to buy on a joint income of, I'll assume, 100k?

To be frank I don't have much sympathy with people who say "I couldn't afford to buy where I grew up, now I commute from Ardee", as if that is how things are meant to be, that everyone should fall into line.

ELM327

We needed a 20% deposit and also due to some complications (ie bad credit history from previous marriage on herself's side) we had to get the mortgage in my name only and with my wages only. We're a corner case though. Generally most people will have 2 salaries in the application and will be able to spend more than 150-200k on a house. We are intending to move in 1-2 years to a better house in the countryside and keep the current place to rent out.

If you have an average junior office job on 25-30k each you can borrow 200k and with help to buy schemes that will get you a house within some areas of Dublin, or, if you wanted a quieter life, some newbuilds within 25-30 mins of Dublin (Navan eg)

I mean, I see the emotional argument, don't get me wrong, but the reality is lots of working people are forced out of where they lived as children due to economics. Why should those getting "free" (taxpayer funded) houses be given them in areas that a lot of taxpayers cannot afford to live?

Eric Cartman

ELM327 wrote: »

We needed a 20% deposit and also due to some complications (ie bad credit history from previous marriage on herself's side) we had to get the mortgage in my name only and with my wages only. We're a corner case though. Generally most people will have 2 salaries in the application and will be able to spend more than 150-200k on a house. We are intending to move in 1-2 years to a better house in the countryside and keep the current place to rent out.

If you have an average junior office job on 25-30k each you can borrow 200k and with help to buy schemes that will get you a house within some areas of Dublin, or, if you wanted a quieter life, some newbuilds within 25-30 mins of Dublin (Navan eg)

I mean, I see the emotional argument, don't get me wrong, but the reality is lots of working people are forced out of where they lived as children due to economics. Why should those getting "free" (taxpayer funded) houses be given them in areas that a lot of taxpayers cannot afford to live?

do you own a helicopter or are you an estate agent, serious question. When quoting commuting times for Dublin we should be talking about arriving city centre for 9am, rendering navan 2 hours away, not 30 minutes.

CrankyHaus

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Wouldn't worry too much about Yurt, this is the same poster who said:

"Propose a solution that's been implemented in another country that's economically equitable, and within two posts, some galaxy brain will inevitably try to drag the conversation back to Margret f*cking Cash.

I honestly think that people who bring her up in threads are suffering from some sort of psychosis."

So there you go, anybody who even dares to suggest that someone who clogs up the system and jumps the queue might also be part of the problem is suffering from psychosis.

The strangest thing about all of this is that the only reason anyone ever heard of Margaret Cash was because she was championed by Homelessness Activists and the media as a representative of Ireland's Homeless Crisis. Now they all protest at her being brought up in any discussion on the grounds that she apparently isn't representative at all. They can't have it both ways.



The same goes for virtually any representative of homelessness the grievance industry champions. They first get presented as a lionised victim, a little digging (that a proper media should have done in the first place) reveals some very inconvenient truths, and then the representative is never spoken of again except to bemoan "right-wing obsession" with the same person that they shouted about from the rooftops.


For instance:

Yurt! wrote: »

Au contraire, Margret Cash became a totem for the 'do nothing' brigade. it allowed them to start beating the drum that anyone speaking up about the perverse housing situation in the county must look act and sound like her, and is a feckless indolent. That's what's being deliberately peddled.

How many Margret Cashes are there, go on, tell me? I'd really love to know. Apparently it's everyone who has a problem with housing provision in Ireland, because she gets mentioned in literally every thread about the subject, despite usually having nothing to do with the topic on hand.

Eric Cartman

Yurt! wrote: »

Au contraire, Margret Cash became a totem for the 'do nothing' brigade. it allowed them to start beating the drum that anyone speaking up about the perverse housing situation in the county must look act and sound like her, and is a feckless indolent. That's what's being deliberately peddled.

How many Margret Cashes are there, go on, tell me? I'd really love to know. Apparently it's everyone who has a problem with housing provision in Ireland, because she gets mentioned in literally every thread about the subject, despite usually having nothing to do with the topic on hand.

She's not responsible for the housing mess, runaway house.prices and spiv rental sector, that's for sure.

She's only useful for right wingers on a rager that want to shut down discussion. Free gaffes this, free gaffes that.

43,000 minimum all the way to possibly 62% of all social housing applicants.

boars

ELM327 wrote: »

or, if you wanted a quieter life, some newbuilds within 25-30 mins of Dublin (Navan eg)

Again another completely false estimate. You said you commute from navan... have you tried commuting on the N3 in the mornings? its at least 1 hour from Navan to inside the M50- on a good day.... where are you committing to clonee?

ELM327 wrote: »

Or you could, you know, get a better job and get a better house.

ah damn... i should have thought of that- obviously my IQ isn't high enough to get a better job.

ELM327

Eric Cartman wrote: »

do you own a helicopter or are you an estate agent, serious question. When quoting commuting times for Dublin we should be talking about arriving city centre for 9am, rendering navan 2 hours away, not 30 minutes.

I guess it depends on whether you are commuting to an industrial estate (Blanch, Sandyford etc) or city centre.


My main office is less than 25 mins from the M3 junction at navan south

Huntergonzo

CrankyHaus wrote: »

The strangest thing about all of this is that the only reason anyone ever heard of Margaret Cash was because she was championed by Homelessness Activists and the media as a representative of Ireland's Homeless Crisis. Now they all protest at her being brought up in any discussion on the grounds that she apparently isn't representative at all. They can't have it both ways.



The same goes for virtually any representative of homelessness the grievance industry champions. They first get presented as a lionised victim, a little digging (that a proper media should have done in the first place) reveals some very inconvenient truths, and then the representative is never spoken of again except to bemoan "right-wing obsession" with the same person that they shouted about from the rooftops.


For instance:

Yes I agree, I think the Margaret Cash situation backfired badly on the Homeless activists who jumped on her story and tried to make hay out of it.

Margaret Cash gamed the system and got what she wanted with complete disregard for the tax payer or those on the list who may have had more need than her and were possibly longer on the list as well.

If homeless activists wanted to champion a case to highlight the plight of homeless people then they chose very poorly in Margaret Cash and now they want it buried.

ELM327

boars wrote: »

Again another completely false estimate. You said you commute from navan... have you tried commuting on the N3 in the mornings? its at least 1 hour from Navan to inside the M50- on a good day.... where are you committing to clonee?



ah damn... i should have thought of that- obviously my IQ isn't high enough to get a better job.

It's not an estimate - it's an actuality.
Garlow Cross to Blanch Corporate Park (near Bank of Ireland)