Whatever happened to the housing crisis ?

jimmyrustle

Salary Negotiator wrote: »

AFAIK (because it came up during Brexit) there is a mechanism under EU law to deport EU citizens who are not able to support themselves if they have just arrived in country.

Oh there is! France and Italy have mass deported Roma neer do wells in the recent past.

Try doing that in this country without wasters like Ruth Coppinger requesting you be charged with genocide as a result.

theballz

The housing crisis is understandably not a primary topic of discussion given the current global crisis - resulting in unemployment, patient overcrowding and ultimately the death of many of our citizations.

Very simple answer really.

CrankyHaus

Kivaro wrote: »

A front line emergency worker posted on here about the high rents and the lack of affordability. These are the people that the main focus should be on. Working people who are charged unaffordable high rents should be helped. The pandemic will ease the high rent issue somewhat, but the Government focus should be on availability of affordable homes for workers, students, carers, and other contributing members of society. The fail-safes are already there for the genuinely vulnerable; it's just that the likes of RTE and the Irish Times needed a front page story for the last year and they got it with pictures of Traveler families in Garda stations or others in tents, but now with this worldwide pandemic there is something with real importance that has overtaken the 10,000 "homeless".

The obvious answer is to prioritise Council Housing for working people. Alter the weighting system so that those in employment are prioritised over chancers who currently game the system in ways that perpetuate disadvantage. Front line emergency workers spend a disproportionate amount of their time dealing with the latter type of person, often in unfriendly circumstances, so I'm surprised to hear one shouting down any criticism of them in such strident terms.

Yurt2

CrankyHaus wrote: »

The obvious answer is to prioritise Council Housing for working people. Alter the weighting system so that those in employment are prioritised over chancers who currently game the system in ways that perpetuate disadvantage. Front line emergency workers spend a disproportionate amount of their time dealing with the latter type of person, often in unfriendly circumstances, so I'm surprised to hear one shouting down any criticism of them in such strident terms.

Many are hostile to public housing full stop. In several threads I and many others have proposed a few different models of housing that provide economically sustainable housing for those on middle or lower incomes and you never get far. Guess who gets invoked? You know who. It's reflexive, they're hostile to any solutions so they may as well be mocked.

Huntergonzo

There was never a housing 'crisis', that was a media term which got popularised and accepted. There was and probably still is a shortage of houses stemming from the crash of 2008.

But if there's any real crisis here it's an entitlement crisis, people turning down houses for various outrageous reasons, eg:

1. They weren't also given stables and a few acres for their horses.

2. The house not having a view of the park.

3. It not being a 3 bed house when the person only has a one bed need (this person is over 60 with no dependants).

I'm personally aware of the 2nd and 3rd cases through my work.

It's a real pity because plenty of people do have a genuine need but so many are just chancers who contribute nothing.

But that's life, happy Tuesday :-)

its terrible how you're being treated surely, yurt

Nesta2018

ELM327 wrote: »

There was no housing crisis.
The need for a house for free beside mummy was eradicated when Jacinta realised she could live with mummy

Off topic but I'm baffled at the repeated use of the name Jacinta to represent a young woman demanding a free house. I doubt there's a Jacinta in the country under the age of 50, and most of them are older. Using a name to tar a whole demographic isn't the greatest but can you at least be accurate?

Kivaro

Kivaro wrote: »

The reality for the 10,000 "homeless" is that many moved back with family and to their previous lodgings after they realised that this pandemic might halt their notions of a free home for life.
The genuine homeless out there remain homeless, and these are the vulnerable in society that we do need to protect.

It's a shame that Fine Gael got caught out by the homeless debacle during the election. All of the left leaning parties were focusing on it, so there was no need for Fine Gael and Fianna Fail to promise the sun, the moon, and the stars to 10,000 people. The vast majority of working/contributing society saw this an unfair to those who abide by the rules and pay their way through life.

Indeed, the homeless crisis is/was essentially a waster crisis. I've no real issues with wasters but giving them forever homes isn't on. The looney left has mandated that government must provide forever homes though and the online yellow vest facebook groups (aka water charge non payers) demanded so too. As a result government had to be seen to try and play ball to an extent.

The genuine homeless then suffer and the taxpayer gets fleeced.

jimmyrustle

Huntergonzo wrote: »

3. It not being a 3 bed house when the person only has a one bed need (this person is over 60 with no dependants).

)

There's actually a baffling amount of 2 bedroom social units being built.

10 years down the line anybody with a gender uneven mix of two or more kids will be demanding they be rehoused

Salary Negotiator

Nesta2018 wrote: »

Off topic but I'm baffled at the repeated use of the name Jacinta to represent a young woman demanding a free house. I doubt there's a Jacinta in the country under the age of 50, and most of them are older. Using a name to tar a whole demographic isn't the greatest but can you at least be accurate?

I've often wondered about that myself and because I'm bored I thought I'd check to see how many there are.

1174 Jacinta births recorded by the CSO between 1970 and 2018, with the vast majority being born before 1995 (1119).

Huntergonzo

jimmyrustle wrote: »

There's actually a baffling amount of 2 bedroom social units being built.

10 years down the line anybody with a gender uneven mix of two or more kids will be demanding they be rehoused

I'm not exactly sure on the overall stats to honest. I do know the by far the most common type of house we get in are 3 beds, with the odd 4 bed (these are usually Part Vs).

1 and 2 bed houses tend to come along in batches and are generally reserved for the elderly or disabled etc.

But you are correct, some people get a 2 and 3 bed houses and then go on to have 5, 6+ children and will be demanding bigger houses down the line. Nothing much the state can do about that though, people have to be responsible themselves, but unfortunately this is not always the case.

Nesta2018

Salary Negotiator wrote: »

I've often wondered about that myself and because I'm bored I thought I'd check to see how many there are.

1174 Jacinta births recorded by the CSO between 1970 and 2018, with the vast majority being born before 1995 (1119).

I'm amazed it's that many, but still, not many in 25 years considering the birth rate is what, between 50,000 and 60,000 on average? The only Jacintas I've ever known were born in the 1950s, it's one of those older lady Catholic names like Philomena. Odd.

rdwight

Yurt! wrote: »

Look I'm no particular fan of Ms Cash, but once again, she is not responsible for the housing obscenity in Ireland.

If people's best idea is to turf the likes of Cash out on the street, that might keep their anti-scumbag boner up, but it does zero for anything.

The structural housing problems remain. That's the basic point and the only point.

I have particular opinions about how housing can be tackled in this country, many of which could conceivably and with effort look out for hard working people.

But it's a waste of time talking about it with the political right, it always comes back to Cash.

Propose a solution that's been implemented in another country that's economically equitable, and within two posts, some galaxy brain will inevitably try to drag the conversation back to Margret f*cking Cash.

I honestly think that people who bring her up in threads are suffering from some sort of psychosis.

The reason conversations comeback to Cash, Fleming etc. is because these are people who have pushed themselves forward and have been taken up by lazy politicians and the media.

A Kitty Holland article on the housing crisis as evidenced by a social welfare couple with five children in a three bedroom apartment does nothing to motivate middle class readers of the IT to support housing initiatives. Having their own kids paying 40% of post tax income on rent and having to delay kids does.

Huntergonzo

Nesta2018 wrote: »

I'm amazed it's that many, but still, not many in 25 years considering the birth rate is what, between 50,000 and 60,000 on average? The only Jacintas I've ever known were born in the 1950s, it's one of those older lady Catholic names like Philomena. Odd.

What's the story with all the Britney's and Shakira's etc, think they should be hitting adulthood around about now.

rdwight

Huntergonzo wrote: »

There was never a housing 'crisis', that was a media term which got popularised and accepted. There was and probably still is a shortage of houses stemming from the crash of 2008.

But if there's any real crisis here it's an entitlement crisis, people turning down houses for various outrageous reasons, eg:

1. They weren't also given stables and a few acres for their horses.

2. The house not having a view of the park.

3. It not being a 3 bed house when the person only has a one bed need (this person is over 60 with no dependants).

I'm personally aware of the 2nd and 3rd cases through my work.

It's a real pity because plenty of people do have a genuine need but so many are just chancers who contribute nothing.

But that's life, happy Tuesday :-)

And then there's the issue of people want to be close to their Mammies. It makes perfect sense to want to be close to support networks but when I hear this argument I always think of the Dublin couples who bought houses in Castledermot and Rochfortbridge etc. and commute to work.

end of the road

Huntergonzo wrote: »

There was never a housing 'crisis', that was a media term which got popularised and accepted. There was and probably still is a shortage of houses stemming from the crash of 2008.

But if there's any real crisis here it's an entitlement crisis, people turning down houses for various outrageous reasons, eg:

1. They weren't also given stables and a few acres for their horses.

2. The house not having a view of the park.

3. It not being a 3 bed house when the person only has a one bed need (this person is over 60 with no dependants).

I'm personally aware of the 2nd and 3rd cases through my work.

It's a real pity because plenty of people do have a genuine need but so many are just chancers who contribute nothing.

But that's life, happy Tuesday :-)

a shortage of housing is a housing crisis.
unaffordable rents is a housing crisis.
the supposed entitlement crisis exists across all walks of irish society, not just a small amount of those on wellfare.

Augeo wrote: »

Indeed, the homeless crisis is/was essentially a waster crisis. I've no real issues with wasters but giving them forever homes isn't on. The looney left has mandated that government must provide forever homes though and the online yellow vest facebook groups (aka water charge non payers) demanded so too. As a result government had to be seen to try and play ball to an extent.

The genuine homeless then suffer and the taxpayer gets fleeced.

this is conspiricy theorist nonsense.
the homeless, or more like housing crisis is real. it is effecting people up and down the country.
the "loony" left have no part to play in relation to how government runs the country, the government do not listen to them. they do sort of listen to people on the ground who relay the facts of the situation and act, but ultimately in a way that will not move away to much from their current strategy.
solving the housing crisis will benefit way way more workers more then it could ever benefit the few wellfare lifers.

Huntergonzo

Yurt! wrote: »

Look I'm no particular fan of Ms Cash, but once again, she is not responsible for the housing obscenity in Ireland.

If people's best idea is to turf the likes of Cash out on the street, that might keep their anti-scumbag boner up, but it does zero for anything.

The structural housing problems remain. That's the basic point and the only point.

I have particular opinions about how housing can be tackled in this country, many of which could conceivably and with effort look out for hard working people.

But it's a waste of time talking about it with the political right, it always comes back to Cash.

Propose a solution that's been implemented in another country that's economically equitable, and within two posts, some galaxy brain will inevitably try to drag the conversation back to Margret f*cking Cash.

I honestly think that people who bring her up in threads are suffering from some sort of psychosis.

Cash and many more like her may not have caused the problem but they contribute hugely to the problem, I've been at the front line of a housing authority before so I have experience in this area.

Now obviously 'turfing' people out on the street is not a solution but a lot of problems arise from massive waiting lists (largely a legacy issue from the crash), people turning down houses for mutlitudes of frivolous reasons and the media and opposition politicans flogging the 'crisis' for all it's worth, with complete disregard for balanced reporting.

Better education might help ease this issue in the long run but there's not a lot you can do when people like Cash breed like rabbits then throw themselves at the mercy of the state and take no responsibilty whatsoever.

Neither the polticial left nor right can solve that puzzle in the short term no matter what they tell you.

Ps, you won't win too many followers telling people you presumably disagree with that they suffer "from some sort of psychosis".

People hold differing views, which is quite normal!

Huntergonzo

end of the road wrote: »

a shortage of housing is a housing crisis.
unaffordable rents is a housing crisis.
the supposed entitlement crisis exists across all walks of irish society, not just a small amount of those on wellfare.

I disagree with the term housing 'crisis', it's used to catch attention quickly and generate a bit of outrage, something which suits the interests of the media and the opposition.

Look use the term if you wish, but I don't fancy it much.

Thelonious Monk

Nesta2018 wrote: »

Off topic but I'm baffled at the repeated use of the name Jacinta to represent a young woman demanding a free house. I doubt there's a Jacinta in the country under the age of 50, and most of them are older. Using a name to tar a whole demographic isn't the greatest but can you at least be accurate?

Jacinta, Natalie, these were the nom du jour for skangers when I was a teenager in the 90s, and they were probably out of date even then.
My moth's gaf is beside Sherriff St and I have heard Jayden, Spencer, and I sh*t you not "London" being screamed across the streets of the IFSC in recent times.
So we need to update our derogatory names index to modern times.

Huntergonzo

rdwight wrote: »

And then there's the issue of people want to be close to their Mammies. It makes perfect sense to want to be close to support networks but when I hear this argument I always think of the Dublin couples who bought houses in Castledermot and Rochfortbridge etc. and commute to work.

This is another common reason for turning down social housing. God forbid the house wasn't within touching distance of mammy and daddy's.

Some people turn down houses which are less than 1km away from their parent's for this very reason.

best excuse i was ever given personally was a lack of french doors between kitchen and living room

but look, turning down a gaff is fine, as long as there a consequences for doing so

and nobody here is actually arguing against the govt working towards addressing the issues in the housing market, regardless of what the ragers attacking anyone posting in this thread say.

its a matter of media coverage driving political attention, and who benefits, who pays, who loses out

and its the ongoing aversion to speaking about what anyone- at any socioeconomic level- contributes versus what they expect to receive

social housing has been given a bad name because of the acceptance that its for the non-working class.

the govt could start there.

Idbatterim

giving the houses away, not collecting rents. Its an absolute disgrace and why so many working poor are fcuked! This entire media narrative and then the gormless spineless image obessessed government, bending over backwards for the ones who should be getting least assistance or who are already on the pigs back :rolleyes:

you really have to question the whole madness behind getting rid of bedsits etc. If the state is paying for your accomodation, as a single person, they were appropriate in my opinion. There were workers paying market rent for them. What do they provide them with now? 50+ sq m A rated luxury apartments and their "rent" wouldnt even cover the yearly management fee in such a block :rolleyes:

Listen , FG have been a disgrace on housing, but I can see the correlation between the current **** show and how that impacts being able to provide others with a roof over their head. Rip off solutions, mickey mouse rents, not even getting paid the mickey mouse rent etc... :rolleyes:

I am not a politician looking for votes, if more rent means they have to do without weekly takeaways, pubs, expensive tv, broadband and latest smart phone. I am way past the point of giving a ****!

nthclare

Idbatterim wrote: »

giving the houses away, not collecting rents. Its an absolute disgrace and why so many working poor are fcuked! This entire media narrative and then the gormless spineless image obessessed government, bending over backwards for the ones who should be getting least assistance or who are already on the pigs back :rolleyes:

you really have to question the whole madness behind getting rid of bedsits etc. If the state is paying for your accomodation, as a single person, they were appropriate in my opinion. There were workers paying market rent for them. What do they provide them with now? 50+ sq m A rated luxury apartments and their "rent" wouldnt even cover the yearly management fee in such a block :rolleyes:

Listen , FG have been a disgrace on housing, but I can see the correlation between the current **** show and how that impacts being able to provide others with a roof over their head. Rip off solutions, mickey mouse rents, not even getting paid the mickey mouse rent etc... :rolleyes:

Well said I like you.

Sometimes I wonder does the hierarchy think we're as thick as sh1t.

Some of these apartments are absolute sh1t holes and I wouldn't wish them on anyone.

A bed, cooker and a toilet in one room, all dressed up in word salad, to make the unfortunate renter think they're living off park avenue but in reality its park bench.

From park avenue to park bench, have you heard that one?

Meanwhile the landlords are knowingly making a killing here.

I remember living in a bedsit on Barrack Street in Cork and it was great for a student, victorian interior and open fire etc
A nice little space, but as a student going out partying and tripping the night fantastic in the 90s it was appropriate.

I often had ten people back after Sir Henry's and the place was rockin, a room full of rag tags and crusty bitches, absolute smoke boxing, drinking and toast and cheese sandwiches.

I don't regret it, but nah not the kind of place for a working man or woman in this day and age...

Huntergonzo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

best excuse i was ever given personally was a lack of french doors between kitchen and living room

but look, turning down a gaff is fine, as long as there a consequences for doing so

and nobody here is actually arguing against the govt working towards addressing the issues in the housing market, regardless of what the ragers attacking anyone posting in this thread say.

its a matter of media coverage driving political attention, and who benefits, who pays, who loses out

and its the ongoing aversion to speaking about what anyone- at any socioeconomic level- contributes versus what they expect to receive

social housing has been given a bad name because of the acceptance that its for the non-working class.

the govt could start there.

Haha be nice to have a few French doors alright, should come as standard :-)

Another one we had recently was a family turning down a 3 bed council house because it was 'in a council estate', how about that. They wanted a nice big Part V in a private estate which wasn't on offer.

So that family and their children are still part of the 'homeless' statistics that the media love so much, but they're 'homeless' entirely by choice, a perfectly up to standard house in a quiet, safe estate, which was in their preferred town was refused.

The other problem is, often there are no consequences for this behaviour. Ok on paper, people are supposed to be suspended from the waiting list after turning down offers but in practise this often doesn't happen.

They cause so much trouble and intimidate staff that they're quickly looked after ahead of other people who are far more deserving. It's wrong but the squeaky wheel gets the oil as they say.

back in my housing unit days ive to say the women in charge knew their gig and any nonsense was paid back in kind.

and they ran a great ship, to be honest.

back before the current crisis, jesus almost back before the one before!

Huntergonzo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

back in my housing unit days ive to say the women in charge knew their gig and any nonsense was paid back in kind.

and they ran a great ship, to be honest.

back before the current crisis, jesus almost back before the one before!

Ah to be fair there's plenty of tough characters still around but it's all a delaying game as far as I can see. Those who make the most noise still win in the end.

Eric Cartman

Salary Negotiator wrote: »

I've often wondered about that myself and because I'm bored I thought I'd check to see how many there are.

1174 Jacinta births recorded by the CSO between 1970 and 2018, with the vast majority being born before 1995 (1119).

Its just a name gery low down the pole, the modern equivalent is probably chantelle, charlene or similar

Kivaro

jimmyrustle wrote: »

As for EU citizens, are the likes of Roma able to fly in, declare as homeless and get on the list? The amount of them living in North Inner City Dublin at the moment is staggering, particularly around Gardiner/ Talbot St and in the general direction of the Mater, seemingly thousands living in hostels/ B&B and the old large houses of the area. I wouldn't be exaggerating in saying I'd say you would see more of them walking around these streets than Irish people now.

Are these people managing to get on the housing list, or acquire any sort of homeless assistance, upon arrival?

I always thought an EU citizen was meant to work at least 2 years to do so, but I wouldn't be surprised if an exception was being made for them.

The same is happening in my local town. Over the last couple of years, the town was flooded with some Africans and many Roma Gypsies. I don't hear about any trouble from the Africans, but the Roma Gypsies have totally reduced the quality of life for most of the town's residents due to thefts, harassment, and organised begging.

It has hit home for me because younger family members who were born and bred in the town cannot afford to compete against the council and housing agencies who outbid them for properties in the town. These homes are then given to Roma and refugees. One younger family member, who is married with children, with both of them working, had no other choice but to buy a run-down cottage in the countryside well outside the town. They were renovating the place for the last year, but that has come to a stop now because they both lost their jobs when this pandemic started.

This is one of the reasons why we have a housing shortage, but mentioning the influx of Gypsies and other groups who take advantage of the current climate of appeasement gets you labelled right-wing. I've worked with Romanians and they were great, but I have yet to come across a working Roma Gypsy.
So who is supporting them? The Irish tax payer is. And it is simply not fair.

Runaways

So the housing crisis and homeless crisis doesn’t exist. But if it did it’s actually homeless people’s fault.
Nothing to do with decades of dereliction of duty by councils nationwide or two parties that have run the state into the ground and up and again and back into the ground again on a cycle for decades.
And who as a policy won’t build social housing as it’ll upset their market and vulture fund overlords

It’s Charlene in tallaghts fault and Ambê from Kenya’s fault.
The housing crisis is all their fault.


Doesn’t take long to get the measure of boardsies anyways. The shallowest depths when it comes to thinking

Huntergonzo

Runaways wrote: »

So the housing crisis and homeless crisis doesn’t exist. But if it did it’s actually homeless people’s fault.
Nothing to do with decades of dereliction of duty by councils nationwide or two parties that have run the state into the ground and up and again and back into the ground again on a cycle for decades.
And who as a policy won’t build social housing as it’ll upset their market and vulture fund overlords

It’s Charlene in tallaghts fault and Ambê from Kenya’s fault.
The housing crisis is all their fault.


Doesn’t take long to get the measure of boardsies anyways. The shallowest depths when it comes to thinking

There is a shortage of houses and there are homeless people out there. Call it a crisis if it suits you, but again crisis is a media term used to grab headlines and when they're done flogging the housing 'crisis', they'll have a few more 'crisis' headlines lined up for you, that's how the media works.

Now some people are unfortunate to be homeless no question but others are to blame themselves, that's a harsh reality. Like I said people turn down social houses for all sorts of ridiculous reasons and then they remain part of the stats and also slow down the housing of other people who often have a more genuine need.

The demand for social housing is huge, again there is no silver bullet solution for this issue no matter what any politician says. It takes time and huge investment to deliver houses (which I completely understand can be frustrating), but in the mean time people should be more responsible and not exacerbate the issue by having 4 or 5 etc children that they can't provide for.