Whatever happened to the housing crisis ?

Horsebox9000

NIMAN wrote: »

You forgot to add that once she got her forever home, she was online inside the next couple of weeks complaining about the quality of her pvc windows.

Soul Stone broken understandable have a great day

s1ippy

I can't wait to see how all the vitriol towards these jobless house-snatchers turns to ambivalence when the holier-than posters lose their jobs in the enormous recession that's coming and need a "hand-out".

Yurt2

s1ippy wrote: »

I can't wait to see how all the vitriol towards these jobless house-snatchers turns to ambivalence when the holier-than posters lose their jobs in the enormous recession that's coming and need a "hand-out".

The covid crisis isn't a time to settle political scores (as this thread is trying to do) and pick on people, but a lot of people who harbour emnity towards various parts of the population will find themselves in this situation.

My point about the 1 billion euro welfare bill was a serious one, that's a figure that will appear quaint and of a different time very shortly.

When the brigade chanting for repossessions can't pay their mortgage, a lot of coughs will be softened.

NIMAN

Yurt! wrote: »

The covid crisis isn't a time to settle political scores (as this thread is trying to do) and pick on people, but a lot of people who harbour emnity towards various parts of the population will find themselves in this situation.

My point about the 1 billion euro welfare bill was a serious one, that's a figure that will appear quaint and of a different time very shortly.

When the brigade chanting for repossessions can't pay their mortgage, a lot of coughs will be softened.

If the next wave of repossessions is as fast and uncaring as the last, then homeowners will have nothing to worry about.

eh, not the best wording id suggest, yurt


cartmans post did a fair job of setting out a lot of the problem fairly imo

why dye insist that ppl must own houses before they get pissed off with ceaseless media attention on a nonsense 10k figure and total focus on slackers looking for the system to house them.

those most ****ed over by this are ppl working and contributing and renting themselves, propping up homeowners investment and paying ouy their arse the other end for those who are having blocks of dundrum bought up or rented out for them by local authorities

the 10k figure was always a nonsense, the lack of rigour in assessing honestly what a persons housing need is and asking them squarely what they propose to do about it is a nonsense, the system that grabs available housing in high demand areas against the fair interest of those paying their own way is a nonsense and flinging ****e at anyone saying so is a nonsense.

and if you're not that left wing, im not that right wing. fair play to us both, but a system that sorts out tenant workers last is a damned funny one for anyone to get shirty supporting

Yurt2

Deleted User wrote: »

eh, not the best wording id suggest, yurt


cartmans post did a fair job of setting out a lot of the problem fairly imo

why dye insist that ppl must own houses before they get pissed off with ceaseless media attention on a nonsense 10k figure and total focus on slackers looking for the system to house them.

those most ****ed over by this are ppl working and contributing and renting themselves, propping up homeowners investment and paying ouy their arse the other end for those who are having blocks of dundrum bought up or rented out for them by local authorities

the 10k figure was always a nonsense, the lack of rigour in assessing honestly what a persons housing need is and asking them squarely what they propose to do about it is a nonsense, the system that grabs available housing in high demand areas against the fair interest of those paying their own way is a nonsense and flinging ****e at anyone saying so is a nonsense.

and if you're not that left wing, im not that right wing. fair play to us both, but a system that sorts out tenant workers last is a damned funny one for anyone to get shirty supporting

Slackers, as you call them, are so few in number that they are not, and were not the reason we ended up in a housing mess.

A very basic point, and one that's far closer to the truth than people just seeking to go on a rager and leave powerful interest groups of the hook.

It's dumb playbook politics and you swallow it hook line and sinker.

As I said before, you could round up the long term unemployed, put them in a modest sized gulag, and we'd be in the same position.

But sure, Margaret Cash, if you want to reduce it to that.

Edit: I'm not even necessarily speaking in defense of the woman, she wouldn't be one I'd be breaking bread with if I could help it. I'd just love to know how people with two brain cells to rub together think that our obscene housing situation can be reduced to 'slackers,' it's complete bullsh*t.

well if we are airily pointing to our own posting history in support of what we *aren't* saying here, ive plenty of posts made covering a wider range of causation and suggested amelioration for the wider issue of cost, availability etc of housing in the country

but, to be very clear, the HOUSING CRISIS that you couldn't move for hearing about the past few years is very much based on the 10k nonsense, and that figure is very much dominated by a set of people exhibiting the characteristics under discussion and if thats the discourse, thats the discourse.

now

maybe if this lot weren't the story, the media wouldve had to focus on a smarter conversation about housing.

and gulag or no gulag, the numbers of people well capable of meeting their own needs but choosing not to in this country has always been a figure the govt splits and obfuscates for its own ends.

that list is like the trolley figures in the hospitals- fodder for opposition and tabloids but evaporates when actually challenged, and everyone the better off if we simply pulled the plaster off now.

Yurt2

Deleted User wrote: »

well if we are airily pointing to our own posting history in support of what we *aren't* saying here, ive plenty of posts made covering a wider range of causation and suggested amelioration for the wider issue of cost, availability etc of housing in the country

but, to be very clear, the HOUSING CRISIS that you couldn't move for hearing about the past few years is very much based on the 10k nonsense, and that figure is very much dominated by a set of people exhibiting the characteristics under discussion and if thats the discourse, thats the discourse.

now

maybe if this lot weren't the story, the media wouldve had to focus on a smarter conversation about housing.

and gulag or no gulag, the numbers of people well capable of meeting their own needs but choosing not to in this country has always been a figure the govt splits and obfuscates for its own ends.

that list is like the trolley figures in the hospitals- fodder for opposition and tabloids but evaporates when actually challenged, and everyone the better off if we simply pulled the plaster off now.

*sigh* you're just posting boilerplate doctrinaire stuff at this stage.

The housing crisis and it's negative effects extended far beyond the 10k you deride as fake homeless, and it reached far into the middle classes. The people who are stung with massive mortgages are going to find out about it soon.

And to say there wasn't a chronic capacity problem in the health service is to live in the land of the deluded. Look outside your window, do you see any activities out there that could could possibly contribute to A&E numbers? You think people aren't terrified of the hospital at the moment? Please, stop insulting people's intelligence.

You're using a once in a lifetime event where the economy has ground to a halt as evidence of 'see?!? my worldview was right all along!'

Patent nonsense of the greatest kind.

efanton

Deleted User wrote: »

According to newspaper reports hundreds of units have been made available. Or was that fake news?

Yes there are loads of empty hotels and B&B up and down the country, and the government is using them.

Did you not think for two seconds to actually consider that with a virus epidemic Ireland is not packed with tourists. The owners of the empty Hotels and B&B will be only too happy to have the government book rooms for the homeless.

So the answer to the question is there still a housing crisis at the moment, YES.

Is there a homeless crisis? not as much as there was before this virus hit because the government now has the option of putting them in hotel rooms. But the housing/homeless crisis will be back to previous levels once hotels and B&B's get back to trading normally and those rooms are no longer available.

In the meantime the government is spending stupid amounts of money housing homeless in hotels. Last year the FG government spent 170 million housing homeless people in hotels and B&B's. This year it is likely to be significantly more.

So if you think spending €340 million housing people for two years in emergency accommodation is good value for money you are nuts. The same money would have built approximately 2000 homes.

If you think the housing crisis disappeared or diminished because of this virus outbreak you are mistaken.

arah.

no stranger to boilerplate yourself.

ignore what you dont want to acknowledge, invent the rest and carry on the derision.

its as strange a compulsion/contribution as any other on these threads and no more valuable than any other either so id say you could do with a shade less of the superiority complex exhibited about it

Yurt2

Deleted User wrote: »

arah.

no stranger to boilerplate yourself.

ignore what you dont want to acknowledge, invent the rest and carry on the derision.

its as strange a compulsion/contribution as any other on these threads and no more valuable than any other either so id say you could do with a shade less of the superiority complex exhibited about it

Sorry snoopsheep, but to point towards a health service where more or less all capacity is directed towards a once in lifetime virus and pretty much all else services but the absolutely essential are cancelled as evidence of the previous chronic situation being fake is not just deluded, it's extremely dishonest.

You're playing the same game with housing and I'd suspect you'd try the same trick with other issues if you thought you'd get away with it.

Nitrogan

It's sickening to hear Irish people whinging about the lack of free houses and money for holidays. People on the dole get holiday pay in Ireland, WTAF?

Ireland's handout class is funded by corporation tax revenues that should be paid in other countries so every time the likes of People Before Profit start banging on about more free stuff remember they are actually looking to profit off the poorest in some other country.

Yurt2

Nitrogan wrote: »

It's sickening to hear Irish people whinging about the lack of free houses and money for holidays. People on the dole get holiday pay in Ireland, WTAF?

Ireland's handout class is funded by corporation tax revenues that should be paid in other countries so every time the likes of People Before Profit start banging on about more free stuff remember they are actually looking to profit off the poorest in some other country.

We're all funded by corporation tax receipts. Our schools, health service, university system, libraries etc.

LRNM

Wow so many geniuses here who cannot wrap their head around the fact hat a global health crisis supersedes another crisis. Much like the people who seem to think because the a&e trolleys are empty because of covid19 that there was truly no issue in the first place despite all other evidence pointing otherwise. or that gangland issues are gone away, or X is gone away. the list goes on.

Boils my blood.

How about this for non existent housing crisis :I'm a front line emergency service worker. I can't afford rent as it's over 50% of my monthly wages before bills, I can't afford a house because 3.5 times my salary is more than the vast majority of houses even outside of the dublin region even with a vast deposit saved up.

Despite the current crisis I still can't afford either and many staff are in the same boat. I know plenty of nurses, gardai and other frontline staff who are living in mobile homes and camper vans at the moment.
Plenty of my colleagues and friends are living in slum conditions with 5 other people in the ****tiest of properties but they've no choise.
I know plenty of people in their 30's and 40's who still have to live with their parents because of the above. Do you think we want to be in this situation and we're all happy?

There are dozens of stories all over boards and other irish websites the past months over the struggles people are having with self isolation and social distancing because they have nowhere to do so and relationships are getting strained with housemates etc.

My heart goes out to all the retail workers, factory workers and construction workers who are earning barely above minimum wage who are in the same boat except worse. And now that thousands have lost their jobs where will we stand?


But no, youre all too pre-occupied with moaning about social housing and people on the dole. Utterly spineless country we live in. We'd stab our own in the back out of spite before fixing any problem.


The one silver lining I'm praying for out of this current emergency is that the rents and house prices fall and construction continues once this is over. Big wish.

Quantum Erasure

haven't read the thread, but...

we should be ramping up building in the current climate. there's a lot we can't do, but planning isnt affected by social distancing, ground work shouldnt be affected, pouring concrete, mixing cement, laying blocks, etc. etc.

should be able to get a lot of sites half built in the next six months, probably cheaper than we would three months ago

LuckyLloyd

Kivaro wrote: »

Truly bizarre that we have a poster on here claiming that it's all a right-wing conspiracy and that Margaret Cash is just an anomaly.

I would imagine that every single one of us, well those of us who live in the real world, we know of at least 10 Margaret Cash types who are acting similarly in our localities. Not only are they getting free houses (with any payments made by them being supplied by the tax payer), but they are also claiming disability or lone-parent allowances etc., which is a slap in the face to their neighbours in the estate who work and/or contribute to society in other ways.

So Margaret Cash types out number the “squeezed middle” 10 : 1!! What if they turn violent? They’ll kill you all in your sleep!!

Quantum Erasure

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

So Margaret Cash types out number the “squeezed middle” 10 : 1!! !

thats not what he said though

Field east

Kivaro wrote: »

The reality for the 10,000 "homeless" is that many moved back with family and to their previous lodgings after they realised that this pandemic might halt their notions of a free home for life.
The genuine homeless out there remain homeless, and these are the vulnerable in society that we do need to protect.

It's a shame that Fine Gael got caught out by the homeless debacle during the election. All of the left leaning parties were focusing on it, so there was no need for Fine Gael and Fianna Fail to promise the sun, the moon, and the stars to 10,000 people. The vast majority of working/contributing society saw this an unfair to those who abide by the rules and pay their way through life.[/QUOTE
]
There must now be figures available on the number of genuine homeless that you refer to. Havnt read all posts , so maybe someone has done so. A difficult exercise to do pre Covis 19 but every cloud has a ‘ silver lining’ !

Kivaro

The vitriol from one poster on this thread is unnecessary and generally it is seen as just a deflection mechanism. Using words like "sneery right-wing, scumbaggery, right wingers on a rager etc." and then attempting to degrade posters because they disagree with his comments is not conducive to a healthy discussion. His claim of less than 1% of the people on the housing list or who get social housing are playing the system is bewildering. Dublin housing authorities tells us that 20% of the people on their lists are from outside the EU. Families from outside the EU were flying into Ireland and declaring homelessness, and then getting emergency housing in hotels and put on the housing list as a priority.

We also have the situation of the very high percentage of Travelers who are claiming disability and their spouses getting paid as carers with the overwhelming majority of them getting free homes. Remember the new huge detached houses in Tipperary that Travelers refused because stables were not included?

A front line emergency worker posted on here about the high rents and the lack of affordability. These are the people that the main focus should be on. Working people who are charged unaffordable high rents should be helped. The pandemic will ease the high rent issue somewhat, but the Government focus should be on availability of affordable homes for workers, students, carers, and other contributing members of society. The fail-safes are already there for the genuinely vulnerable; it's just that the likes of RTE and the Irish Times needed a front page story for the last year and they got it with pictures of Traveler families in Garda stations or others in tents, but now with this worldwide pandemic there is something with real importance that has overtaken the 10,000 "homeless".

Wanderer78

Long_Wave wrote:

You had Dick Boyd Barrett out calling for all building sites to be closed last week. What ever happened to the housing shortage emergency? Not a word about it since early February.

Think theres a virus or something, stomach bug maybe, kinna makes sense to close them for a while!

Yurt2

Kivaro wrote: »

The vitriol from one poster on this thread is unnecessary and generally it is seen as just a deflection mechanism. Using words like "sneery right-wing, scumbaggery, right wingers on a rager etc." and then attempting to degrade posters because they disagree with his comments is not conducive to a healthy discussion. His claim of less than 1% of the people on the housing list or who get social housing are playing the system is bewildering. Dublin housing authorities tells us that 20% of the people on their lists are from outside the EU. Families from outside the EU were flying into Ireland and declaring homelessness, and then getting emergency housing in hotels and put on the housing list as a priority.

We also have the situation of the very high percentage of Travelers who are claiming disability and their spouses getting paid as carers with the overwhelming majority of them getting free homes. Remember the new huge detached houses in Tipperary that Travelers refused because stables were not included?

A front line emergency worker posted on here about the high rents and the lack of affordability. These are the people that the main focus should be on. Working people who are charged unaffordable high rents should be helped. The pandemic will ease the high rent issue somewhat, but the Government focus should be on availability of affordable homes for workers, students, carers, and other contributing members of society. The fail-safes are already there for the genuinely vulnerable; it's just that the likes of RTE and the Irish Times needed a front page story for the last year and they got it with pictures of Traveler families in Garda stations or others in tents, but now with this worldwide pandemic there is something with real importance that has overtaken the 10,000 "homeless".

I can only presume you're referring to me. I said no such thing. You can read, re-read and re-read my posts again; I posted no such thing. You're concocting comments and assertions.

And I offer no apologies for the stance I've taken in this thread, its the same palaver over and over. And In a crisis, the 'it was all fake all along' bs looks all the more crass. You were wrong before covid kicked off, and you're extra wrong now.

ELM327

I think there's an important distinction to be made

Actual homeless: Living rough on the street, hostels etc

Reported homeless: Homed in hotels etc for "free" (read, at our cost).

The former should be helped during this crisis, a lot of the latter are already moved back in with mummy or former lodgings.

Wanderer78

ELM327 wrote: »

I think there's an important distinction to be made

Actual homeless: Living rough on the street, hostels etc

Reported homeless: Homed in hotels etc for "free" (read, at our cost).

The former should be helped during this crisis, a lot of the latter are already moved back in with mummy or former lodgings.

you re being too kind, i think we should turf them out on the ear, load the place up with guns, drugs, alcohol etc etc, let them tough it out, it would be a bit of craic for the rest of us!

ELM327

Anyone found to be abusing the system should be blacklisted imo.
The supports we have in place are already very generous and removes a lot of personal responsibility

Wanderer78

ELM327 wrote: »

Anyone found to be abusing the system should be blacklisted imo.
The supports we have in place are already very generous and removes a lot of personal responsibility

here here, maybe we should remove their shoes as well, they re a luxury anyway

Yurt2

Wanderer78 wrote: »

here here, maybe we should remove their shoes as well, they re a luxury anyway

Take away their free gaffes and replace them with butter vouchers.

I also move that we take the small un's and train them up as chimney sweeps to show them the importance of toil and labour.

And before anyone says it, street urchin chimney sweeps are always the most jolly characters in musicals. SO THERE

jimmyrustle

Kivaro wrote: »

T Dublin housing authorities tells us that 20% of the people on their lists are from outside the EU. Families from outside the EU were flying into Ireland and declaring homelessness, and then getting emergency housing in hotels and put on the housing list as a priority.

I'm not necessarily doubting this but is this entirely true?

To qualify for social housing support from outside the EU I'd assume you would have to first claim asylum and stay in the direct provision system for several years, before then entering the housing list system.

As for EU citizens, are the likes of Roma able to fly in, declare as homeless and get on the list? The amount of them living in North Inner City Dublin at the moment is staggering, particularly around Gardiner/ Talbot St and in the general direction of the Mater, seemingly thousands living in hostels/ B&B and the old large houses of the area. I wouldn't be exaggerating in saying I'd say you would see more of them walking around these streets than Irish people now.

Are these people managing to get on the housing list, or acquire any sort of homeless assistance, upon arrival?

I always thought an EU citizen was meant to work at least 2 years to do so, but I wouldn't be surprised if an exception was being made for them.

Salary Negotiator

jimmyrustle wrote: »

I'm not necessarily doubting this but is this entirely true?

To qualify for social housing support from outside the EU I'd assume you would have to first claim asylum and stay in the direct provision system for several years, before then entering the housing list system.

As for EU citizens, are the likes of Roma able to fly in, declare as homeless and get on the list? The amount of them living in North Inner City Dublin at the moment is staggering, particularly around Gardiner/ Talbot St and in the general direction of the Mater, seemingly thousands living in hostels/ B&B and the old large houses of the area. I wouldn't be exaggerating in saying I'd say you would see more of them walking around these streets than Irish people now.

Are these people managing to get on the housing list, or acquire any sort of homeless assistance, upon arrival?

I always thought an EU citizen was meant to work at least 2 years to do so, but I wouldn't be surprised if an exception was being made for them.

AFAIK (because it came up during Brexit) there is a mechanism under EU law to deport EU citizens who are not able to support themselves if they have just arrived in country.

Tea drinker

Yurt! wrote: »

The covid crisis isn't a time to settle political scores (as this thread is trying to do) and pick on people, but a lot of people who harbour emnity towards various parts of the population will find themselves in this situation.

My point about the 1 billion euro welfare bill was a serious one, that's a figure that will appear quaint and of a different time very shortly.

When the brigade chanting for repossessions can't pay their mortgage, a lot of coughs will be softened.

You're missing the point, which is we should have kept the money being wasted on Margaret Cash for the working men and women, pensioners and real people in need, not spongers. Isn't it displaying empathy and fairness to do that?
Your posts seem more about getting on a high horse and lecturing than engaging with people. Maybe a lack of empathy there, and you seem to harbour ill will against people where you think you can get away it.
You know like you are accusing people of here.

Yurt2

Tea drinker wrote: »

You're missing the point, which is we should have kept the money being wasted on Margaret Cash for the working men and women, pensioners and real people in need, not spongers. Isn't it displaying empathy and fairness to do that?
Your posts seem more about getting on a high horse and lecturing than engaging with people. Maybe a lack of empathy there, and you seem to harbour ill will against people where you think you can get away it.
You know like you are accusing people of here.

Look I'm no particular fan of Ms Cash, but once again, she is not responsible for the housing obscenity in Ireland.

If people's best idea is to turf the likes of Cash out on the street, that might keep their anti-scumbag boner up, but it does zero for anything.

The structural housing problems remain. That's the basic point and the only point.

I have particular opinions about how housing can be tackled in this country, many of which could conceivably and with effort look out for hard working people.

But it's a waste of time talking about it with the political right, it always comes back to Cash.

Propose a solution that's been implemented in another country that's economically equitable, and within two posts, some galaxy brain will inevitably try to drag the conversation back to Margret f*cking Cash.

I honestly think that people who bring her up in threads are suffering from some sort of psychosis.