I want a shutdown NOW!

El_Duderino 09

citysights wrote: »

Do you know what the further restrictions would be? I thought we’d pretty much shut down everything, there isn’t that much left they could do as it is we are told to stay at home only our for groceries or pharmacy or work or walk near home.

Look at any country that has tighter restrictions then Ireland currently has. There are loads of poster who will tell you "this is not a lockdown"

There are lots of jobs which are now considered essential which are debatable. There is no enforcement against people leaving the house for non essential reasons.

At a minimum, I'd expect the list of essential jobs to shorted and I'd expect some kind of garda powers against people who are acting the maggot. Then there is the French situation where you need a really good reason to be out of the house such as a medical appointment. The uk police have powers fine people acting the maggot and BJ is currently getting people used to the idea of tighter restrictions.

I don't pretend to know the order in which restrictions will be tightened or which specific restrictions will be enforced. But you can bet your bottom dollar that the current restrictions are not the final ones. There will be more restrictions in the next week or so.

What do you think?

El_Duderino 09

DeVore wrote: »

ps: Its not just the elderly.

Here are the mortality rates for people with various conditions:

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus#case-fatality-rate-of-covid-19-by-preexisting-health-conditions

Remember thats mortality rates WITH ventilators. Without vents, its multiples of that.

Sure, it's not just the elderly, but it's primarily people over 50. No point pretending it hasn't killed anyone under 50, but also no point pretending it's not mainly killing the elderly.

thebaz

DeVore wrote: »

Those underlying conditions are:

Diabetes
Asthma
High blood pressure
Cancer
Heart Disease


Know anyone with them, of any age? If you blow through the ventilator beds in order to get back to work, those people are all in seriously danger.

Those conditions also put people of risk with a flu virus - I have one myself (asthma) - The Full lockdown approach is playing out in deifferent counryrs with different results -

India went into full lockdown, and people are already suffering from hunger which will be more deadly, as well as congregating in panic induced crowds at bus stations that will lead to more infections.
Sweden on the other hand has not gone into lockdown and are asking ther citizens to behave in a considerate manner whilst observing social distancing and ther statistics so far are not greatly more than ours (3,700 cases v 2,615) whilst society continues and a reduced economy is running.

Having said that i understand why we are doing what we are , to flatten the curve , so as to keep health services from being over-whelmed - but discussions must take place on all options, as no one has the exact right answers right now.
Also, apparently going on a Ventilator is actually a very dangerous procedure with high risk risk, especially for those already frail.

Nermal

Nermal wrote: »

Show your source for 15%/5%. Does the sample reflect low risk groups, or more likely, reflect people sick enough to be tested? (I think I can guess).

Some more results from Iceland testing, halfway through:
https://www.baldingsworld.com/2020/03/29/how-fast-is-corona-spreading-and-how-many-undetected-cases-are-there/

963 positive tests, 19 needing hospitalisation, 6 in the ICU.

2% hospitalisation rate.

0.6% in ICU.

So, now what's the better strategy?

We've been railroaded into panic by bad data.

punisher5112

Gardai are now stopping some buses and getting on to check passenger are staying apart....

In city just now.

thebaz

Nermal wrote: »

Some more results from Iceland testing, halfway through:
https://www.baldingsworld.com/2020/03/29/how-fast-is-corona-spreading-and-how-many-undetected-cases-are-there/

963 positive tests, 19 needing hospitalisation, 6 in the ICU.

2% hospitalisation rate.

0.6% in ICU.

So, now what's the better strategy?

We've been railroaded into panic by bad data.

” Early results from deCode Genetics indicate that a low proportion of the general population has contracted the virus and that about half of those who tested positive are non-symptomatic,” said [Iceland’s chief epidemiologist Thorolfur] Guðnason. “The other half displays very moderate cold-like symptoms.”

This means that hopefully majority of cases will be asymptomatic or have moderate symptoms - most country right now seam to be testing those that are quite sick with the virus - By end of April we will have a good idea of what the real number is, when anti-body tests are done on large sections of society - hopefully these figures hold , and mortality rate will be well under 1%

ps I would not be reading too much into Chinese numbers, they reallly dont add up to whats happening elsewhere - How were they able to contain the virus within Wuhan and its provice - why are the figures so low in comparison to elsewhere, given population size and the lockdown in Wuhan happened 2 months after virus was identified.

citysights

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Look at any country that has tighter restrictions then Ireland currently has. There are loads of poster who will tell you "this is not a lockdown"

There are lots of jobs which are now considered essential which are debatable. There is no enforcement against people leaving the house for non essential reasons.

At a minimum, I'd expect the list of essential jobs to shorted and I'd expect some kind of garda powers against people who are acting the maggot. Then there is the French situation where you need a really good reason to be out of the house such as a medical appointment. The uk police have powers fine people acting the maggot and BJ is currently getting people used to the idea of tighter restrictions.

I don't pretend to know the order in which restrictions will be tightened or which specific restrictions will be enforced. But you can bet your bottom dollar that the current restrictions are not the final ones. There will be more restrictions in the next week or so.

What do you think?

I think the whole world is upside down now, it’s all surreal and hard to make sense of any of it. For my part I’m obeying all the rules and now very vigilant re hygiene, wiping down shopping, indoor and outdoor shoes etc.

I don’t know what a further lockdown could entail, not leaving the house without a permit for shopping or pharmacy, no more walks, I’m just surmising, though these measures would be very strict and shocking for people.If it’s for the greater good meaning we can flatten that curve, reduce the fatality and illness rate, get this under control and then get back to out normal lives reasonably quickly that would be fantastic.The fear I suppose is an Italy like situation here( hopefully not) which would be carnage and emotionally devastating for the country. The other fear is the economic carnage we may be facing.

I don’t know, I really have no answers, all this is moving so crazily and so quickly.

Alf Veedersane

Nermal wrote: »

We've been railroaded into panic by bad data.

I don't think the current restrictions were based on data from elsewhere. Yeah they're probably used as possible indicators for the bigger picture but the decision was hastened becaise of the rate of increase in nunbers of ICU cases at this stage with respect to ICU capacity and the reality that most cases will spend of the order of 10-14 days in ICU.

User142

Anyone work in or know of a manufacturing plant that's actually closing?

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

User142 wrote: »

Anyone work in or know of a manufacturing plant that's actually closing?

Nope, not even the ones with confirmed cases are closing. Tomorrow is going to be a disaster.

User142

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Nope, not even the ones with confirmed cases are closing. Tomorrow is going to be a disaster.

The classifications are so broad. I know of plants that fit into the bands. I wonder will they tinker with the rules when they see how many non essential companies fit into the essential categories.

Plumbthedepths

BIL works for a company making Ventilators, 3 confirmed cases in the workforce. Closing is not an option.
The company I work for is also classed as essential. Part of our operation supplies components to the medical device industry.
The social distancing in the premises is excellent. Probably helps that the H&S manager is the sole carer for a vulnerable parent. He has taken the precautions very seriously.

jprboy

User142 wrote: »

Anyone work in or know of a manufacturing plant that's actually closing?

According to a few posts in the Tipperary thread Boston Scientific in Clonmel will be closed for the next two weeks.

seanl77

User142 wrote: »

Anyone work in or know of a manufacturing plant that's actually closing?

Careys glass in nenagh is closed for the next two weeks, would be 300 workers at a rough estimate

BanditLuke

punisher5112 wrote: »

Gardai are now stopping some buses and getting on to check passenger are staying apart....

In city just now.

That's really great to hear.

Salty

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

BIL works for a company making Ventilators, 3 confirmed cases in the workforce. Closing is not an option.
The company I work for is also classed as essential. Part of our operation supplies components to the medical device industry.
The social distancing in the premises is excellent. Probably helps that the H&S manager is the sole carer for a vulnerable parent. He has taken the precautions very seriously.

My dad works for a company who also make components for medical devices here in Cork. They have taken on the guidelines extremely well from what he says. Absolutely anyone who can work from home is doing so. The place is like a ghost town apparently and he might meet 3 people in the entire day at a push now.

Irish_rat

User142 wrote: »

Anyone work in or know of a manufacturing plant that's actually closing?

Yeah it's nowhere near a lockdown when most manufacturing facilities are deemed essential. If they make medical devices but not ventilators then no they should not be essential. Money is proving to be higher priority over employees safety.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

PatMc9 wrote: »

I work in a factory that makes Agri machinery. It is in no way essential but management are very close with the top men in Fine Gael, and surprise surprise they added us to the essential list.

I'm in a large medical devices company, not closing, either are any of the other American multinationals.

Money, money, money.

They left the "essential" work list vague on purpose.

PatMc9

Hunky Monster wrote: »

I'm in a large medical devices company, not closing, either are any of the other American multinationals.

Money, money, money.

They left the "essential" work list vague on purpose.

At least medical devices is more important the farm machinery.

I am depressed at how greedy Ireland is. I live with an elderly parent and I am doing my best to keep them safe. I have my hands raw when I come home in the evening trying to clean them but what hope do I have when I spend the day mixing with 250 people and most of them have no heed on social distance, the greed from management is unbelievable. We are all using one small toilet block that’s filthy. They are cleaning it a bit more now but that’s all. Hard find a sink to wash hands. See most lads don’t bother washing. They gave us all a tiny bottle of alcohol gel last week and everyone brought it home. They put up some sign by the sink on how to wash but that’s all they did.

There is no reason whatsoever for us to be open except greed.

It shows how unimportant the working man is when it comes to political parties. And looking at Facebook everyone thinks fine gael are doing a fantastic job now.

punisher5112

PatMc9 wrote: »

At least medical devices is more important the farm machinery.

I am depressed at how greedy Ireland is. I live with an elderly parent and I am doing my best to keep them safe. I have my hands raw when I come home in the evening trying to clean them but what hope do I have when I spend the day mixing with 250 people and most of them have no heed on social distance, the greed from management is unbelievable. We are all using one small toilet block that’s filthy. They are cleaning it a bit more now but that’s all. Hard find a sink to wash hands. See most lads don’t bother washing. They gave us all a tiny bottle of alcohol gel last week and everyone brought it home. They put up some sign by the sink on how to wash but that’s all they did.

There is no reason whatsoever for us to be open except greed.

It shows how unimportant the working man is when it comes to political parties. And looking at Facebook everyone thinks fine gael are doing a fantastic job now.

Bring baby wipes, give hands a good clean with these, be better then no wash, have a shower the second you're home and hopefully that would be enough.

con___manx1

I work in a pharma company. All office staff and management are working from home. There was a suspected case and they just did a deep clean and continued production.
If someone gets it they will close for 2 weeks iv been told.
We had record output this year but its never enough. Its all about the bottom dollar to them.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

con___manx1 wrote: »

I work in a pharma company. All office staff and management are working from home. There was a suspected case and they just did a deep clean and continued production.
If someone gets it they will close for 2 weeks iv been told.
We had record output this year but its never enough. Its all about the bottom dollar to them.

Same. All office staff are home. The eejits are working on the floor. Someone has already tested positive. We work on.

ILoveYourVibes

PatMc9 wrote: »

There is no reason whatsoever for us to be open except greed.

It shows how unimportant the working man is when it comes to political parties. And looking at Facebook everyone thinks fine gael are doing a fantastic job now.

GASLIGHTING...some people believe it. I don't. They are doing woefully.

We have a higher infection rate than the uk and as high a death rate as the US.

Our lack of investment in the health service and lack of willingness to shut down certain industries is showing.

Sinn Fein are going to SURGE next election.

Alf Veedersane

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

GASLIGHTING...some people believe it. I don't. They are doing woefully.

We have a higher infection rate than the uk and as high a death rate as the US.

Our lack of investment in the health service and lack of willingness to shut down certain industries is showing.

Sinn Fein are going to SURGE next election.

Rate of testing is higher in Ireland so more cases identified per capita. Their death rate is twice that of Ireland.

Investment isn't the issue. It's being going up. Use of money is poor.

People have been asking where SF are. They won't surge.

Cork Boy 53

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

GASLIGHTING...some people believe it. I don't. They are doing woefully.

We have a higher infection rate than the uk and as high a death rate as the US.

Our lack of investment in the health service and lack of willingness to shut down certain industries is showing.

Sinn Fein are going to SURGE next election.

Really? The latest opinion polls would indicate otherwise. FG up 10 points from the last poll. SF have done what they usually do which is snipe from the sidelines..

PatMc9

punisher5112 wrote: »

Bring baby wipes, give hands a good clean with these, be better then no wash, have a shower the second you're home and hopefully that would be enough.

But is this enough? If one of the lads working along side me coughs into the air, I am probably breathing it in. I’m at the stage where I don’t think I can avoid getting Covid.

I am having a shower the second I get home but I still drive my car home, my wife uses the same car to go shopping. We give a quick wipe to the wheel but I can’t deep clean the seat or anything else I touched, when you think into it the moment we leave our house we are in danger. If I did an important job I wouldn’t mind, but putting my elderly parent at risk for non essential work feels so wrong. I won’t forget it when we go to the polls but most have.

And I think sin fein just aren’t getting the air time, the news shows nothing but Leo.

Alf Veedersane

PatMc9 wrote: »

But is this enough? If one of the lads working along side me coughs into the air, I am probably breathing it in. I’m at the stage where I don’t think I can avoid getting Covid.

I am having a shower the second I get home but I still drive my car home, my wife uses the same car to go shopping. We give a quick wipe to the wheel but I can’t deep clean the seat or anything else I touched, when you think into it the moment we leave our house we are in danger. If I did an important job I wouldn’t mind, but putting my elderly parent at risk for non essential work feels so wrong. I won’t forget it when we go to the polls but most have.

And I think sin fein just aren’t getting the air time, the news shows nothing but Leo.

I'm not sure what exactly would constitute essential services that require farm machinery - genuinely, not trying to be facetious - but if you're making farm machinery that isn't for an essential service then it's more that your employers are going to stretch the justification of having you in working. There seems to be a lot of abuse of what constitutes an essential service and the degree to which it is a core part of the business.

As for air time, the reality is that the parties not in power don't really have anything to add since they're not in the position to make changes. Other than to say that suggestions they made have been implemented. That's not a criticism, just a reality and I don't think that they haven't been vocal should be used as a criticism. What do people want them (or anyone else) to be vocal about.

I hope you and your family keep well.

El_Duderino 09

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I'm not sure what exactly would constitute essential services that require farm machinery - genuinely, not trying to be facetious - but if you're making farm machinery that isn't for an essential service then it's more that your employers are going to stretch the justification of having you in working. There seems to be a lot of abuse of what constitutes an essential service and the degree to which it is a core part of the business.

It depends. There are different degrees of "essential" from least essential to most essential. This thing is likely to go on for months. The longer it goes on the greater the chances of food shortages becoming a real possibility. So agri machinery is a pretty important and there's no point waiting for a food crisis to start making machinery in a panic. Much better to make it now and use if when needed than ever risk it running short.

There are a lot of things people will put up with but food shortages lead to revolution and anarchy and total breakdown in law and order.

These jobs will be cut as the list of essential jobs is shortened in the next few weeks. But I really think the strategy is to build up stock of things we'll need in 6, 9 or even 12 months in case this thing goes on that long.

jmayo

Irish_rat wrote: »

Yeah it's nowhere near a lockdown when most manufacturing facilities are deemed essential. If they make medical devices but not ventilators then no they should not be essential. Money is proving to be higher priority over employees safety.

You need more than ventilators to diagnose people and keep them alive.

You need masks, hosing, oxygen flowmeters, vacuum regulators, thermometers, patient monitors, oxygen regulators, suction pumps, defibs, chest compression systems, blood pressure monitors, blood pressure cuffs, syringes, needles, catheters, sterile wipes, mouthpieces, filters, tubing, laryngoscopes, resus bags, test tubes, pipettes.

Some of the stuff is throw away disposable, but some needs to be sterilised which then means more sterlisation products and equipment.

It is not just all about ventilators.

martingriff

Irish_rat wrote: »

Yeah it's nowhere near a lockdown when most manufacturing facilities are deemed essential. If they make medical devices but not ventilators then no they should not be essential. Money is proving to be higher priority over employees safety.

We asked all other illnesses to stop during the pandemic and they said no.