I want a shutdown NOW!

ThewhiteJesus

I’m in Rathmines and it’s as busy as always

Risteard81

Raconteuse wrote: »

Ironically, if people practised social distancing, the restrictions would be required for a shorter time.

This proves you don't understand the situation. They would be required for much longer as they will PROLONG the course of the pandemic.

Balf

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Or maybe it's just that the "immediate medical concerns" are just that: immediate.

It's a short term measure to address the immediate medical threat and we have a view of what not doing that would potentially look like as that's what's happening in Italy and Spain.

It's no surprise there's a large scale buy-in for this compared with water charges because (a) the "what's in it for me?" question can be answered with "minimising the risk of death for you or one of your family and (b) the very immediate nature of it. People don't see what the immediate benefit is in paying water charges especially since they're just being asked to now pay for something they didn't have to. But they're not comparable anyway.

It's a short term measure, with long term impacts.


The way you gloss over that is, pretty much, what concerns me. Exactly as you do, this is set out as "short terrm" when it's committing us to big problems long term.



Now, we've made the choice. We've decided that reducing the risk that someone's 98 year old uncle will need a ventilator tomorrow should be paid for by (for example) trashing the pivotal exams that tens of thousands of secondary school pupils are about to take, which will strongly influence their lives for decades. Nothing short-term in that.



To be clear, the relevance (and it is relevant) of the water charge issue is the difference in achieving (largely) public acceptance.


Now, at the same time, its not just here that similar choices are being made. I think, though we might at least give the people who will be carrying these costs for decades the courtesy of acknowledging their pain and loss


Instead of folk fuming because they saw someone walking a dog. What particular level of Hades do these people want dog owners to live in? Do they seriously think pet dogs can be kept indoors for weeks, because doctors want to manage access to ICUs? Barmy, if they do.


And, just to repeat, mostly folk are following advise. The foaming at the mouth brigade need to give it a rest.

martingriff

Balf wrote: »

And what about the rest of what I said? What problems do you think we'll be facing as a society when we wake up with your post Covid hangover in a few months?

Anyone?

So we just let people die our hospitals get overrun. Also as the poster said not just Covid 19 suffers but people with other problem who can't get an ICU bed. Now I know its 2 hours since this post but be worth to see if you have answered that yet. Just have the b$^^s to admit your okay with that just so you can go out and do whatever you want

elperello

Cork_Langer1 wrote: »

This was never a lockdown, dopes are forming outside supermarkets.

The more restrictions imposed on the people the more they'll break them, also the guards have no powers to stop anyone from going anywhere.

I understand that some of the supermarkets are restricting access only allowing a limited number in at a time.

This may account for the queues outside.

Balf

martingriff wrote: »

So we just let people die our hospitals get overrun.

If you mentioned some other aspects of the issue, your' post would be worth responding to.


And, indeed, as you note another poster reminded us that there are people with utterly unconnected ailments needing access to the same facilities.


Well done in noticing that. Maybe mull it over a bit.

Muahahaha

Just back from the shops, its madness out there.

Heres a photo I took just half an hour ago.

Balf

elperello wrote: »

I understand that some of the supermarkets are restricting access only allowing a limited number in at a time.

This may account for the queues outside.

I hear from folk shopping today that this is exactly the situation.



It's basically the same arrangments as you'll have seen before, only supermarkets are controlling the numbers they let in at any one time just to make sure that aisles are not congested.



Absolutely not a sign of panic buying.

vmb

Will the lockdown finish the 12nd of April?

elperello

vmb wrote: »

Will the lockdown finish the 12nd of April?

Nobody knows for sure.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Lockdown me hole, I'm stuck at home for the next two weeks, grand, I still have to go to work, I could meet 2/300 people a night in the job I do, I'm still in training so I'm working very closely with a few people, same office, the floor is noisy so people are up in my face shouting into my ear. It's just a BIIIIG waste of time all of this. It's either a shutdown or it's not, and this isn't a shutdown, I just drove by the shops there, you'd think its Christmas week.

Alf Veedersane

Balf wrote: »

It's a short term measure, with long term impacts.


The way you gloss over that is, pretty much, what concerns me. Exactly as you do, this is set out as "short terrm" when it's committing us to big problems long term.



Now, we've made the choice. We've decided that reducing the risk that someone's 98 year old uncle will need a ventilator tomorrow should be paid for by (for example) trashing the pivotal exams that tens of thousands of secondary school pupils are about to take, which will strongly influence their lives for decades. Nothing short-term in that.



To be clear, the relevance (and it is relevant) of the water charge issue is the difference in achieving (largely) public acceptance.


Now, at the same time, its not just here that similar choices are being made. I think, though we might at least give the people who will be carrying these costs for decades the courtesy of acknowledging their pain and loss


Instead of folk fuming because they saw someone walking a dog. What particular level of Hades do these people want dog owners to live in? Do they seriously think pet dogs can be kept indoors for weeks, because doctors want to manage access to ICUs? Barmy, if they do.


And, just to repeat, mostly folk are following advise. The foaming at the mouth brigade need to give it a rest.

You're glossing over deaths as just being 98 year olds dying.

Exams haven't been trashed. Students are still being taught online. It's not ideal but I'm not sure what alternative there is.

I don't agree with fuming because someone is walking their dog. The guidance didn't say someone couldn't walk their dog. Once they follow the guidance that's aimed at minimising the risk of transmission, they absolutely can and will need to walk their dog.

No need for foaming at the mouth but painting it as an overreaction on the basis that it's 98 year olds dying isn't exactly a better position to take.

For what it's worth, the age profile of those in ICU was given the day it hit 39, which was 2/3 days ago. 18 of the 39 were 54 and under. Another 8 in the 55-64. So 26 of 39 not yet at retirement age.

El_Duderino 09

vmb wrote: »

Will the lockdown finish the 12nd of April?

How would anyone know that? There are 2 extremes. One is where the virus spreads as fast as it can. Basically the whole country gets in on a month and the health service can only deal with a fraction of the cases. Loads of power don’t get any treatment and die. That way it would all happen quickly and we’d be free again sooner as Italy is experiencing.

The other extreme is that the spread is controlled and people only get it at the rate at which the health service can handle it. Far fewer would die and everyone would get treatment. That would take months and months.

In any case, they’re pretty sure this is going to be an annual disease so we all need to get immunity to it. So we either all have to get it or we need a vaccine.

I really wouldn’t expect things to reopen at Easter (12 April). If we do reopen then we’ll get the Italy experience. I expect tighter restrictions on movement by the time Easter comes.

Alf Veedersane

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I really wouldn’t expect things to reopen at Easter (12 April). If we do reopen then we’ll get the Italy experience. I expect tighter restrictions on movement by the time Easter comes.

I don't think there are tighter restrictions to implement other than shortening the list of workplaces to shops/supermarkets and chemists, for example.

Best case scenario is it is shown to have worked, it will be continued for another week or two weeks before a small relaxation. Return to normality too soon and the door is opened for cases to rise again

martingriff

Balf wrote: »

If you mentioned some other aspects of the issue, your' post would be worth responding to.


And, indeed, as you note another poster reminded us that there are people with utterly unconnected ailments needing access to the same facilities.


Well done in noticing that. Maybe mull it over a bit.

Oh no I realise our economy will be hit and hit hard. Hopefully when this is over people's confidence will still be there we also have suspensions of rates mortgages and utility bills so these should help. So now i acknowledge the other parts of what i wrote and not just selectively quote a line

martingriff

Risteard81 wrote: »

This proves you don't understand the situation. They would be required for much longer as they will PROLONG the course of the pandemic.

Please do not tell me you one of these oh I will burn itself out here immunity people, even Boris and Trump are backtracking

El_Duderino 09

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I don't think there are tighter restrictions to implement other than shortening the list of workplaces to shops/supermarkets and chemists, for example.

Best case scenario is it is shown to have worked, it will be continued for another week or two weeks before a small relaxation. Return to normality too soon and the door is opened for cases to rise again

Well, yeah that’s exactly what I mean. I expect anyone who can work from home to be told explicitly to do so (it’s moronic that this hasn’t happened already tbh). I expect fewer businesses to be allowed to open and restricted to essentials. More restrictions on going out to only essential jobs and shopping, medical reasons and similar.

Basically more like the uk. These things will become apparent when the health service is overrun. Unfortunately, some people will need to see it happening before they see the need to limit movement to essentials.

You can see it on the news in Spain and Italy. People lying on the floor in hospital hallways, coughing and dying. Then there will be no call for relaxing restrictions and nobody will remember thinking it would be a good idea.

Trump is talking about reopening at Easter but that’s just to shift the discussion away from his handling of the situation. There’s no way they will relax restrictions. They will almost certainly tighten restrictions when they need to, just like everyone else.

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Basically more like the uk. These things will become apparent when the health service is overrun. Unfortunately, some people will need to see it happening before they see the need to limit movement to essentials..

Ireland now is much tighter than the UK. There are no distance restrictions in the UK, all independen cafes and coffee shops are open for take out, there are no explicit restrictions on driving elsewhere, and you can still get workmen to attend your house for non-essential jobs like roofs and kitchens

what the UK does, that Ireland does not (which is way more important than ridiculous 2km rules) is to actively police and break up groups > 2

niallo27

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I don't think there are tighter restrictions to implement other than shortening the list of workplaces to shops/supermarkets and chemists, for example.

Best case scenario is it is shown to have worked, it will be continued for another week or two weeks before a small relaxation. Return to normality too soon and the door is opened for cases to rise again

How tighter than this can it get, nobody is working only essential people. You can hardly leave your house. What more can they do.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

niallo27 wrote: »

How tighter than this can it get, nobody is working only essential people. You can hardly leave your house. What more can they do.

"Essential"... I can tell you most large factories are open here, especially the American ones.

Plumbthedepths

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/cf9b0d-new-public-health-measures-effective-now-to-prevent-further-spread-o/

Under 'Transport and Travel:

"there will be a nationwide restriction on travel outside of 2 kilometres from your place of residence (except for the restrictions listed above"

Yep you need a reason to go beyond 2km, work shopping , medical appointment family essential visit all are allowed.

El_Duderino 09

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ireland now is much tighter than the UK. There are no distance restrictions in the UK, all independen cafes and coffee shops are open for take out, there are no explicit restrictions on driving elsewhere, and you can still get workmen to attend your house for non-essential jobs like roofs and kitchens

what the UK does, that Ireland does not (which is way more important than ridiculous 2km rules) is to actively police and break up groups > 2

Yeah, some people are saying the uk is more restrictive others are saying Ireland is more restrictive. I know that not “all independen cafes and coffee shops are open for take out”. Loads are closed. And there are explicit restrictions on driving elsewhere. Only essential travel is advised - essential work, food shopping and medical travel and similar. Exercise is limited to once per day for 30 mins max. And the police have powers to fine people with fines that double each time. lots of flaws in that system but I don’t there there are similar restrictions or police powers to enforce them in Ireland.

I heard a fella on the radio talking about how he could work from home because he has a work laptop but is going to the office because it’s better then being at home all the time. Ffs. Non essential office work is almost nonexistent in the uk. The whole public and civil service has been WFH for the last 2 weeks in the uk. My mate in civil service what’s been commuting to work in a non essential role for the last 2 weeks.

The systems are different and I expect them to become more restrictive and more similar in the coming days and weeks.

Alf Veedersane

niallo27 wrote: »

How tighter than this can it get, nobody is working only essential people. You can hardly leave your house. What more can they do.

That's pretty much what I was saying when i said "I don't think there are tighter restrictions to implement other than shortening the list of workplaces"

niallo27

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

That's pretty much what I was saying when i said "I don't think there are tighter restrictions to implement other than shortening the list of workplaces"

Sorry I quoted the wrong post, meant to quote the one you did. I totally agree with you.

Alf Veedersane

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

You're glossing over deaths as just being 98 year olds dying.

Exams haven't been trashed. Students are still being taught online. It's not ideal but I'm not sure what alternative there is.

I don't agree with fuming because someone is walking their dog. The guidance didn't say someone couldn't walk their dog. Once they follow the guidance that's aimed at minimising the risk of transmission, they absolutely can and will need to walk their dog.

No need for foaming at the mouth but painting it as an overreaction on the basis that it's 98 year olds dying isn't exactly a better position to take.

For what it's worth, the age profile of those in ICU was given the day it hit 39, which was 2/3 days ago. 18 of the 39 were 54 and under. Another 8 in the 55-64. So 26 of 39 not yet at retirement age.

In fact they wouldn’t dream of putting a 98 year old on a ventilator as A) highly unlikely to pull through with it without it, and if by some miracle they actually survived a few more months the quality of life would be appalling. I know all this because it was discussed with me just before my mother’s death aged 89 when she succumbed to a hospital infection.

A question mark more often comes up with the 75-85 year old aged group, many of whom are big participants in the life of our society. When ventilators run short a much younger cohort would be in competition for them, and in a country like ours, Italy etc, it is actually a competition for a ventilator. The ICU consultant has to make awful decisions.

An example might be two people arrive in need of immediate ventilation. A 47 year old man who has been healthy and active all his life, and a 35 year old diabetic lady who has had a kidney transplant and some visual impairment. Which one do you place on the ventilator? Do you take into account the family support needed during a subsequent recovery because at best the person will have residual damage, probably cognitive damage and recovery may never be complete. Ventilators also damage lungs quite easily, especially fragile lungs, so nothing is straightforward here. Doctors are left with the most appalling predicament. They can’t even talk face to face with family members as they would have wished to do. There’s not even the possibility of offering donor organs as some form of comfort.

niallo27

Hunky Monster wrote: »

"Essential"... I can tell you most large factories are open here, especially the American ones.

I presume you are talking about one of the biggest in limerick that help you see, yes.

rdhma

Hunky Monster wrote: »

"Essential"... I can tell you most large factories are open here, especially the American ones.

Some of which make medical equipment and pharmaceuticals.

ITman88

rdhma wrote: »

Some of which make medical equipment and pharmaceuticals.

It’s hard to explain to someone who doesn’t understand the importance of pharmaceuticals and med device plants remaining open.
Logic doesn’t apply in most cases

If we did just go about our business until x number drop from illness, and y number die above normal death rate, can anyone calculate how the economy might pan out for the fittest who survive and don’t suffer the subsequent pulmonary fibrosis which apparently affects a percentage (don’t know what percentage) of survivors? Bearing in mind that pulmonary fibrosis can be a terminal condition and at best it is a permanent debilitating condition, and I believe you don’t have had to have a severe form of Covid-12 to get it. It is a little akin to suffering adhesions months or years after appendicitis has been addressed.

shesty

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Well, yeah that’s exactly what I mean. I expect anyone who can work from home to be told explicitly to do so (it’s moronic that this hasn’t happened already tbh). I expect fewer businesses to be allowed to open and restricted to essentials. More restrictions on going out to only essential jobs and shopping, medical reasons and similar.

Basically more like the uk. These things will become apparent when the health service is overrun. Unfortunately, some people will need to see it happening before they see the need to limit movement to essentials.

You can see it on the news in Spain and Italy. People lying on the floor in hospital hallways, coughing and dying. Then there will be no call for relaxing restrictions and nobody will remember thinking it would be a good idea.

Trump is talking about reopening at Easter but that’s just to shift the discussion away from his handling of the situation. There’s no way they will relax restrictions. They will almost certainly tighten restrictions when they need to, just like everyone else.

Whereabouts are you living?Because that is how it is for most people I know...my own office has basically banned people from entering it.There must only be a very very small minority who aren't working from home at this stage.Dublin's complete lack of a rush hour is testimont to that.
The only thing left to do is stop people exercising, and even the UK hasn't gone that far yet.And hopefully we won't have to.