The UK response to Covid-19 [MOD WARNING 1ST POST]

Bobeagleburger

fryup wrote: »

with underlying health issues??

Yes

AllForIt

CelticRambler wrote: »

The most uninformed of them being the one who's chosen to give an ego-boosting press conference every day (in case anyone might forget about him).

I doubt you will forget about him.

Every news conference I seen included some kind of significant announcement especially the budget ones. So to suggest that the news conferences are being held to promote Boris is more than a little bit petty.

I thought the British Government's strategy was supposed to rely heavily on behavioural science? Have they brought in a ban on evictions, like the French or the Americans did? Nope. Have they banned people from hanging out together in the open air like just about every other nation has? Nope. Have they imposed travel restrictions to stop people spreading the disease further afield? Nope.
Plenty of examples of "bad" behaviour to be seen in other countries following early measures, so what has the UK done to avoid falling into the same trap? Hope a chap does the right thing? I'm eagerly awaiting theological's answer.

Your talking about total lockdown. Time and time again it has been explained in the news conferences that the timing of those actions will be done at a stage that provides maximum effect with least disruption. At every occasion they have explained their reasoning which you are free to disagree with but what your inferring isn't that they have simply made the wrong strategic decisions but there is some nefarious reason for them making the decisions they have made, which I'm hoping you might explain instead of using this thread to continue with your dissatisfaction with Brexit and turning this thread into a copy of the Brexit one in the politics forum.

Timberrrrrrrr

McGiver wrote: »

Did they close themselves or were ordered to close? Significant difference.

Did Ireland's bars close of their own free will? Reports of back doors being opened to regulars too.

RobMc59

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Did Ireland's bars close of their own free will? Reports of back doors being opened to regulars too.

My wife has been told by her cousin in Ireland there are thousands waiting to be tested but they have`nt got the kits-the Irish government is lying about it to stop people panicking.

Water John

The truth is they clearly told us today in Ireland that there was a backlog of 40K.
They said this gives a delay of 4/5 days. They're opening new drive through sites each day. They also gave the actual number of kits and the new orders and when they are coming.
Nobody is hiding any information in Ireland. Hiding anything from the public undermines the peoples trust and that trust is the key element in the Govn't fight .

Jinglejangle69

The penny has dropped with Boris.

Jesus what were they thinking?

timhenn

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

The penny has dropped with Boris.

Jesus what were they thinking?

What was he to do? He was acting on advice given to him, right?

CelticRambler

RobMc59 wrote: »

Perhaps you will tell the head of Ireland`s HSE that you reckon he`s got it wrong and it`s not a war.:rolleyes:

Thanks for the offer, but I have enough on my plate at the moment persuading my own overlords of the error of their ways.

AllForIt wrote: »

Your talking about total lockdown. Time and time again it has been explained in the news conferences that the timing of those actions will be done at a stage that provides maximum effect with least disruption. At every occasion they have explained their reasoning which you are free to disagree with but what your inferring isn't that they have simply made the wrong strategic decisions but there is some nefarious reason for them making the decisions they have made, which I'm hoping you might explain instead of using this thread to continue with your dissatisfaction with Brexit and turning this thread into a copy of the Brexit one in the politics forum.

The only link I make with Brexit is that the British government's decisions in regard to this epidemic are being driven by the same unicornist ideology that drove them towards a chaotic Brexit.

You parrot their line about timing things to cause "least disruption" when, in fact, maximum disruption is what's needed at a time like this - maximum disruption of our pandemic-enabling behaviours as privileged westerners. I've already explained that rational several times on this thread and others, but you choose to ignore. So does the British government, to a greater extent than any other European government, and with predictable fatal consequences.

But if you're in the mood for justifications, perhaps you'd like to rise to the challenge of explaining - with figures for projected deaths - how Johnson's dithering and Cummings' delay is making things better for the population of the UK?

CelticRambler

RobMc59 wrote: »

My wife has been told by her cousin in Ireland there are thousands waiting to be tested but they have`nt got the kits-the Irish government is lying about it to stop people panicking.

I mightn't know a huge amount about the day-to-day detail of what's happening in Ireland, but I do know that Varadkar said on TV that there weren't enough kits available. I think your wife's cousin needs to choose a better news feed.

robinph

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

The penny has dropped with Boris.

Jesus what were they thinking?

What penny?

There was nothing really announced today that we didn't already know about a week ago. Today was all about the provisions being made for the people with severe risks due to their existing health conditions and what measures they are setting up to help those people stay isolated for at least three months.

There was no new announcement about stronger measures being taken, just details about how they were going to help the vulnerable who they are asking to stay indoors and away from everybody.

no.8

VinLieger wrote:

Seriously wtf is up with the English? Nurses being spat at and kicked while being called disease spreaders, 6 ambulances getting their tyres drilled last night, crowds spitting and coughing at police who were simply guarding an incident scene, NHS workers in tears because when they finish their endless shifts trying to save lives they are met with empty food shelves due to hoarding......

A shoot on site laser should be drafted for those attacking ambulances now. The others deserve to be kicked into the sea (traitors whoever they are)

Be right back

VinLieger wrote: »

Seriously wtf is up with the English? Nurses being spat at and kicked while being called disease spreaders,
6 ambulances getting their tyres drilled last night, crowds spitting and coughing at police who were simply guarding an incident scene, NHS workers in tears because when they finish their endless shifts trying to save lives they are met with empty food shelves due to hoarding......

Where did you read that? Not doubting you.

Eric Cartman

Be right back wrote: »

Where did you read that? Not doubting you.

I looked it up, its in the metro, appears a lot more hate towards asian nhs staff than generally but sill, what a messed up place.

Be right back

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I looked it up, its in the metro, appears a lot more hate towards asian nhs staff than generally but sill, what a messed up place.

I really wouldn't like to be in the UK during this. I'm not sure what Boris is waiting for or who's advising him.

YFlyer

timhenn wrote: »

What was he to do? He was acting on advice given to him, right?

They told him about herd immunity. Medical experts from nearly every other country that approach is stupid. Heads will roll.

Water John

Yes, we are all heading to either quell the outbreak or control its severity, over time. We eventually will end up with it dying out like swine flu or we'll have to get immunity, either through infection or a vaccine.
It's all about buying time. UK and The Netherlands were thinking of going the quick route. Maybe it was to minimise impact on the economy, a Trevelyan response.

Bobeagleburger

Johnson like his American counterpart look like weak leaders out of their depth. Not what you want at a time of crisis.

Won't be forgotten when the final body count is tallied.

AllForIt

CelticRambler wrote: »

The only link I make with Brexit is that the British government's decisions in regard to this epidemic are being driven by the same unicornist ideology that drove them towards a chaotic Brexit.

What chaotic Brexit? The only thing that was chaotic about it was the attempt to overturn the result of the ref which was stung out much longer, by a year, than need be.

You parrot their line about timing things to cause "least disruption" when, in fact, maximum disruption is what's needed at a time like this - maximum disruption of our pandemic-enabling behaviours as privileged westerners. I've already explained that rational several times on this thread and others, but you choose to ignore. So does the British government, to a greater extent than any other European government, and with predictable fatal consequences.

As I said, you are free to decide how best to deal with this as if your were PM, but given the fact your're an extreme remainer, I can't trust where your coming from in your criticisms of how the UK gov are dealing with this.

But if you're in the mood for justifications, perhaps you'd like to rise to the challenge of explaining - with figures for projected deaths - how Johnson's dithering and Cummings' delay is making things better for the population of the UK?

It's a bit rich of you to ask me this when I asked you for what reason you think Johnson would make bad decisions on the management of this virus and you didn't answer.

Darc19

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Did Ireland's bars close of their own free will? Reports of back doors being opened to regulars too.

Fakebook reports I presume.


Gardai stated that they got several reports and every one of them was false

Darc19

RobMc59 wrote: »

My wife has been told by her cousin in Ireland there are thousands waiting to be tested but they have`nt got the kits-the Irish government is lying about it to stop people panicking.

Wrong.

40,000 kits arrived last week and hundreds of thousands on the way.

Only delay is in physically taking the test and in the past few days over 30 testing centers opened and a further 20 will open this week. Mostly drive through operations.


Try using more reliable sources than cousin of wife

CelticRambler

AllForIt wrote: »

It's a bit rich of you to ask me this when I asked you for what reason you think Johnson would make bad decisions on the management of this virus and you didn't answer.

How can I justify the thought-process behind Johnson's decision-making? All I know is that it's wrong, and that he acknowledges (day after day after day) that his previous disease-control measures were wrong and/or ineffectual, and - days or weeks later - finally adopts a strategy that I'd recommended (on this thread) with my science-based reasoning.

You're the one saying his was a good decision, in the face of data that shows that the disease is no better controlled in the UK than it is in Italy, possibly worse, and the best you can come up with as a defence is that I'm an "extreme remainer" whatever that is (I think, as a non-UK-resident non-Brit, I can't really be either a Leaver or a Remainer of any shade on the spectrum)

For a brief time, however, I was one of the people working on behalf of Her Majesty to keep the scepter'd isle free of epidemics (I transferred my experience to the French long before Brexit was a thing, but in part for the safety of my family should we ever have to face exactly this kind of epidemic) and I struggle to understand how a pantomime politician has been allowed drag the country so far away from the fundamental principles of good disease management.

Peregrinus

6 wrote: »

Johnson like his American counterpart look like weak leaders out of their depth. Not what you want at a time of crisis.

Won't be forgotten when the final body count is tallied.

To be fair, if you wanted a leader who would be effective and intelligent in a time of crisis, you wouldn't elect someone who has plainly missed his true calling as the back end of a pantomime horse.

Still, voters rarely blame themselves for their own poor decisions. They will take this out on the people they voted for.

Bass Reeves

AllForIt wrote: »

It's a bit rich of you to ask me this when I asked you for what reason you think Johnson would make bad decisions on the management of this virus and you didn't answer.

It really a numbers game. Most countries have done modelling on outcomes. Most have called in mathematicians to do this. In really basic terms to reach immunity you need 60%+ of the population to get the virus.

In Wuhan where it overcame the city's health service the death rate was 3.5% of cases. In the rest of China it was 0.6% of cases. Doing a model of that on a British population of 66million you get a death rate of 1.3 million in an uncontrolled situation.

The problem with this disease is you have to err on the side of caution. It is one thing to develop theories that are off the wall on issues like Brexit you only collapse the UK economy for 10years at worse if wrong. If your theories wrong about COVID 19 over a million people extra may die.

LuckyLloyd

theological wrote: »

I'm not sure we agree. I don't think authoritarian measures like forcibly keeping people in their homes are right.

People should comply with the measures but by consent and not by force. The majority are following the advice.

Aha, that’s it. Such a stupid socialist virus!

This whole crisis really exposes the bankruptcy of Internet libertarianism.

McGiver

YFlyer wrote:

They told him about herd immunity. Medical experts from nearly every other country that approach is stupid. Heads will roll.

It is a valid approach, it's just inhumane.

In this case, the disease is demonstrably deadly in few % cases, and if you don't have sufficient resources to treat the projected number of sick people, it pretty much equals to a mass murder to go for this approach.

300-500k people would die... No sane government would adopt this approach.

moritz1234

https://twitter.com/BBCkatyaadler/status/1241394343472218114?s=20


Nice to see compassion and help out there - well done Germany !

droidman123

McGiver wrote: »

It is a valid approach, it's just inhumane.

In this case, the disease is demonstrably deadly in few % cases, and if you don't have sufficient resources to treat the projected number of sick people, it pretty much equals to a mass murder to go for this approach.

300-500k people would die... No sane government would adopt this approach.

No sane govt would,but the british might

moritz1234

https://twitter.com/sofiadmateus/status/1241767905920012288?s=20

the purple tin

^^^^
Angela Merkel has gone into SI. Her doctor has tested positive.

Dave0301

Can see the UK imposing much more strict measures in the coming days. Pictures like this from London will force them to.

https://twitter.com/Hopton2470/status/1241982363850211329