The UK response to Covid-19 [MOD WARNING 1ST POST]

I watched the bit about G-tech on sky news. They have their prototype ventilator on test at the moment and expect to start producing 1000 per day.

The private sector has just agreed to open their 8000 beds up and 4500 ex NHS employees have already signed up

That is a pretty gigantic effort taking place to mitigate this thing.

Charles Babbage

VinLieger wrote: »

Since they are purposely not testing enough we can only go off their deaths totals which as of today stands at 233.

France with 450 deaths has 12k infected but they havent updated theirs today, the US has 288 dead with 20k infected but they also havent been testing enough.

These numbers show 2 things either the UK deffinitely aren't testing enough OR british people for some bizarre reason are far more likely to die from this.

Which do you think it is?

Germany is the obvious comparator here, as the British always like to compare themselves to their Saxon brethern. Germany has 4 times the cases, but only one third of the deaths of the UK, presumably because they test everyone who might have it.

SnowyMuckish

I think Boris Johnson has the blood of his people on his hands. He was above advice, and his country has to suffer as a consequence. I live in nw Donegal, we too will suffer because of his response. Viruses know no borders. We took a drive this week, just to get out of our house. We passed through a popular holiday town, thronged with northern visitors, their schools, pubs, restaurants weren’t shut until very recently, as a result they are ‘escaping’ and carrying the virus south. We are going to suffer because of Boris’s response....

dharma200

Aegir wrote: »

I watched the bit about G-tech on sky news. They have their prototype ventilator on test at the moment and expect to start producing 1000 per day.

The private sector has just agreed to open their 8000 beds up and 4500 ex NHS employees have already signed up

That is a pretty gigantic effort taking place to mitigate this thing.

The private sector is selling the beds. They should be seized by the stater imho.

katiek102010

I am so glad I moved home.

Speaking to friends in UK yesterday and today. They think we are crazy and overreacting. They are annoyed their schools are closed.

Still want to come visit here during Easter hidays and get the hump when told they cannot stay with me or visit.

We need to shut borders with UK and need to bring the North under irish control for this

droidman123

katiek102010 wrote: »

I am so glad I moved home.

Speaking to friends in UK yesterday and today. They think we are crazy and overreacting. They are annoyed their schools are closed.

Still want to come visit here during Easter hidays and get the hump when told they cannot stay with me or visit.

We need to shut borders with UK and need to bring the North under irish control for this

Totally agree with this,the buffoons in the uk have come to the fore in this crisis

RobMc59

Aegir wrote: »

I watched the bit about G-tech on sky news. They have their prototype ventilator on test at the moment and expect to start producing 1000 per day.

The private sector has just agreed to open their 8000 beds up and 4500 ex NHS employees have already signed up

That is a pretty gigantic effort taking place to mitigate this thing.

100% agree,after a slow start,along with the financial help,companies like Gtech and McLaren along with the extra help for the NHS,British ingenuity,innovation and battling spirit is very encouraging to the nation.

RobMc59

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Germany is the obvious comparator here, as the British always like to compare themselves to their Saxon brethern. Germany has 4 times the cases, but only one third of the deaths of the UK, presumably because they test everyone who might have it.

I mentioned earlier in the thread how Ireland and Germany are doing so well compared to other European countries and was shocked to hear Germany is not recording cause of death as coronavirus which is keeping their figures down whilst their infection figures are quite high.

RobMc59

CelticRambler wrote: »

So that confirms that the UK's "right measures at the right time" strategy was and is only as good as the world's worst-case scenario to date, and that with a 14-day advantage. Not exactly something to be very pleased with or proud of.

I think you're missing the point,should Britain sit feeling sorry for themselves or try to do their best to fight back against this virus? (just as France are doing and inspiring the rest of us imo). If we go down,we go down fighting.

Peregrinus

RobMc59 wrote: »

I mentioned earlier in the thread how Ireland and Germany are doing so well compared to other European countries and was shocked to hear Germany is not recording cause of death as coronavirus which is keeping their figures down whilst their infection figures are quite high.

This article from the Financial Times points to other factors to account for the low death rate, and doesn't mention any allegation that the death records are inaccurate.

It's a fairly explosive allegation that appears to have found no traction in the mainstream media. Nor does it make a huge amount of sense; if you are minded to cook the books on deaths, wouldn't it cross your mind to cook teh books on infections as well? Otherwise, what is the point?

The unworthy suspicion that this might be fake news crosses my mind, as it must have crossed yours. So, can I ask, where are you getting this from?

darlett

RobMc59 wrote: »

I think you're missing the point,should Britain sit feeling sorry for themselves or try to do their best to fight back against this virus? (just as France are doing and inspiring the rest of us imo). If we go down,we go down fighting.

The point was because of the slow response to the spread of the virus it has become more widespread and there are more cases of infection and death than there would have been. Instead a game of chicken with an ffffing virus? Measures delayed to try and find the 'right time'? The reasons given for not shutting up shop were that school kids would get cabin fever and that business would suffer. The second point doesnt even make sense. The businesses would have suffered earlier but not as long and hard as they will now it was let take hold. History will not be kind to Boris for this gamble. There will be a lot of blood on his government's hands. A stitch in time would have saved nine. This isn't hindsight, this was the message being screamed across.

Midnight Sundance

I was looking at Gogglebox there last night. I was so surprised at all their reactions to the news on Coronavirus. Not one of them seemed to really be taking it seriously.
I think we need to close our borders soon going by how serious Britain seems to be taking this situation

RobMc59

Peregrinus wrote: »

This article from the Financial Times points to other factors to account for the low death rate, and doesn't mention any allegation that the death records are inaccurate.

It's a fairly explosive allegation that appears to have found no traction in the mainstream media. Nor does it make a huge amount of sense; if you are minded to cook the books on deaths, wouldn't it cross your mind to cook teh books on infections as well? Otherwise, what is the point?

The unworthy suspicion that this might be fake news crosses my mind, as it must have crossed yours. So, can I ask, where are you getting this from?

I'm on my phone so can't give the post number but I posted on 19th March at 16.41 praising Ireland and Germany for the way they're handling the situation.The comments about Germany's methods of recording deaths came in a reply on the same day at 17.58.
I stand by my original post that Ireland and Germany are doing a fantastic job,showing the rest of us how to do it.I'm also lifted by France's fighting spirit in this dark time for us all.

CelticRambler

RobMc59 wrote: »

I think you're missing the point,should Britain sit feeling sorry for themselves or try to do their best to fight back against this virus? (just as France are doing and inspiring the rest of us imo). If we go down,we go down fighting.

And I think that's a "so British" attitude: sit around doing nothing, denying reality (see everything Brexit) and when reality smacks Britain in the face, re-write the narrative to make it sound like a noble quest.

Despite the political hyperbole, this is not a war, it is (was) a preventable disease that the world's leaders - especially in Europe & the US - allowed infect their country, abetted by many of their own citizens who, even now, take pride in ignorantly flouting the (limited) containment measures put in place.

Here's something I seen on a uk forum I frequent.
Most posters agreed with .
They are thick as pig****.

SIR – As well as being 66 and in poor health, I also have three sisters in the at-risk category for coronavirus. I therefore feel qualified to say this.

We are demolishing our economy and small businesses and wasting many billions of pounds to protect an at-risk category comprising about 1 per cent of the population. The science suggests that the rest of us may get a mild form of the virus but will recover.

The best estimates state that up to 250,000 people will lose their lives. This accounts for less than half of 1 per cent of our population. This is extremely sad and awful for those affected, but while governments should be caring, they must be pragmatic. Many of these people –myself included – will succumb to something else in the next few years.

How can we justify the impact of this path? We are spending, effectively, £1.2 million per expected death on people whose life will be taken soon anyway, yet we cannot find the tens of thousands of pounds for specialist cancer treatment for much younger people. It will take years to recover from this ridiculous path.

Darryl Davies
Glan Conwy, Denbighshire

timhenn

BrownFinger wrote: »

Here's something I seen on a uk forum I frequent.
Most posters agreed with .
They are thick as pig****.

SIR – As well as being 66 and in poor health, I also have three sisters in the at-risk category for coronavirus. I therefore feel qualified to say this.

We are demolishing our economy and small businesses and wasting many billions of pounds to protect an at-risk category comprising about 1 per cent of the population. The science suggests that the rest of us may get a mild form of the virus but will recover.

The best estimates state that up to 250,000 people will lose their lives. This accounts for less than half of 1 per cent of our population. This is extremely sad and awful for those affected, but while governments should be caring, they must be pragmatic. Many of these people –myself included – will succumb to something else in the next few years.

How can we justify the impact of this path? We are spending, effectively, £1.2 million per expected death on people whose life will be taken soon anyway, yet we cannot find the tens of thousands of pounds for specialist cancer treatment for much younger people. It will take years to recover from this ridiculous path.

Darryl Davies
Glan Conwy, Denbighshire

Britain is riddled with the I'm alright Jack crew but then again, so are we.

RobMc59

CelticRambler wrote: »

And I think that's a "so British" attitude: sit around doing nothing, denying reality (see everything Brexit) and when reality smacks Britain in the face, re-write the narrative to make it sound like a noble quest.

Despite the political hyperbole, this is not a war, it is (was) a preventable disease that the world's leaders - especially in Europe & the US - allowed infect their country, abetted by many of their own citizens who, even now, take pride in ignorantly flouting the (limited) containment measures put in place.

You've just said the European and the US leaders have allowed this to infect their countries but you reserve your most scathing and'wise after the event 'comments for the UK.
I honestly expected better from you Celtic as one of the usually more realistic posters here.

Bobeagleburger

dharma200 wrote: »

The private sector is selling the beds. They should be seized by the stater imho.

Isn't it at zero profit? So they aren't actually making money from it afaik.

CelticRambler

RobMc59 wrote: »

You've just said the European and the US leaders have allowed this to infect their countries but you reserve your most scathing and'wise after the event 'comments for the UK.
I honestly expected better from you Celtic as one of the usually more realistic posters here.

Because Italy was caught unawares, and Italy's neighbours were handicapped by their geographical continuity and open Schengen borders; but Britain had and wasted four enormous advantages: physical isolation thanks to the English Channel, political isolation thanks to Schengen/Brexit, a centralised health service and disease control/surveillance service, and - most of all - an extra fortnight to get its act together.

That is why there is no excuse for Britain now to be aligned with the worst of the worst in the world, and that (in my opinion) is entirely due to Johnson's deliberate policy of "dither and delay". Yet again this morning, I've heard a Johnson spokesman (Robert Jenrick, Housing Secretary) referring to measures that'll be put in place "... when the time is right" As I pointed out earlier, when it comes to disease control, whatever is deemed "right" today is already at least two weeks late.

Johnson - like Trump - seems unable to think ahead, having spent his career to date practising witty responses to the public mood of the moment (exhibit B: his two contradictory position statements prepared in advance of the Brexit referendum). British people will pay for his buffoonery with their lives. (Americans will also pay a high price for their Glorious Leader's idiocy)

threeball

RobMc59 wrote: »

100% agree,after a slow start,along with the financial help,companies like Gtech and McLaren along with the extra help for the NHS,British ingenuity,innovation and battling spirit is very encouraging to the nation.

Pity common sense wasn't one of the traits and you wouldn't have needed the rest.

threeball

Midnight Sundance wrote: »

I was looking at Gogglebox there last night. I was so surprised at all their reactions to the news on Coronavirus. Not one of them seemed to really be taking it seriously.
I think we need to close our borders soon going by how serious Britain seems to be taking this situation

Noticed this too. Even the old participants were having a laugh about it like it was something on the other side of the world and would have no impact on them.

RobMc59

CelticRambler wrote: »

Because Italy was caught unawares, and Italy's neighbours were handicapped by their geographical continuity and open Schengen borders; but Britain had and wasted four enormous advantages: physical isolation thanks to the English Channel, political isolation thanks to Schengen/Brexit, a centralised health service and disease control/surveillance service, and - most of all - an extra fortnight to get its act together.

That is why there is no excuse for Britain now to be aligned with the worst of the worst in the world, and that (in my opinion) is entirely due to Johnson's deliberate policy of "dither and delay". Yet again this morning, I've heard a Johnson spokesman (Robert Jenrick, Housing Secretary) referring to measures that'll be put in place "... when the time is right" As I pointed out earlier, when it comes to disease control, whatever is deemed "right" today is already at least two weeks late.

Johnson - like Trump - seems unable to think ahead, having spent his career to date practising witty responses to the public mood of the moment (exhibit B: his two contradictory position statements prepared in advance of the Brexit referendum). British people will pay for his buffoonery with their lives. (Americans will also pay a high price for their Glorious Leader's idiocy)

All very good but as I said, it's easy to be wise after the event-I have no time for Johnson and his cohorts but the government has always been upfront about the fact there will be thousands of deaths.There are probably many twists and turns before this has ran its course and that's when the piper must be paid-if its found that European (including the UK)and the US leaders are found to have been negligent or withholding important information they should be barred from public office and prosecuted .

RobMc59

threeball wrote: »

Pity common sense wasn't one of the traits and you wouldn't have needed the rest.

Does that apply to everyone or just the UK?

threeball

RobMc59 wrote: »

Does that apply to everyone or just the UK?

Your post referenced the UK but you can include other countries who ignored the early advice if you wish like the dutch and americans. Fighting spirit is fcuk all good with no enemy to fight.

CelticRambler

RobMc59 wrote: »

All very good but as I said, it's easy to be wise after the event.

Some of us are trained, and paid, to be wise before events such as this. Britain used to have some of the best people in this field, but over the last three years, they were given a choice: continue working in a dynamic international community, or give that up and stay in Boris's Wonderland. Along with the EMA, they packed up and left Britain because their experience was not appreciated.

Harry Palmr

Interesting snippet in today's Sunday Times

https://twitter.com/johnharris1969/status/1241632642581303296

complete article here a bit blurry for me

https://twitter.com/PaddyBriggs/status/1241651746486857729?s=09

and Buzzfeed article about the penny dropping vis-a-vis Italy

https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/10-days-that-changed-britains-coronavirus-approach?ref=hpsplash

It was on Wednesday March 11 — 10 days ago — that some of the experts on the government’s Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies began to realise that the coronavirus was spreading through the UK too fast for the NHS to cope.

Over the next few days, Britain’s leading epidemiologists were embroiled in a series of extremely tense — and until now private — discussions among themselves, with the UK’s chief scientific advisor Patrick Vallance, and Boris Johnson’s government over what to do.


There was no consensus. Several of the scientists frantically argued that the UK must immediately introduce social distancing to halt the spread of the virus. Some pleaded with the government to change tack or face dire consequences.

But others continued to believe that introducing social distancing now would be unsustainable for a long period and would lead to a more disastrous second wave of infection.

Wales have announced 7 further deaths, bringing their total to 12. They have 60% of our population but four times our number of deaths. I think this is another early indication of the human cost of the UK's dithering.

RobMc59

RobMc59 wrote: »

All very good but as I said, it's easy to be wise after the event-I have no time for Johnson and his cohorts but the government has always been upfront about the fact there will be thousands of deaths.There are probably many twists and turns before this has ran its course and that's when the piper must be paid-if its found that European (including the UK)and the US leaders are found to have been negligent or withholding important information they should be barred from public office and prosecuted .

I was pretty amazed at Ciara Kelly’s comments to a caller on Monday.

She said we just need to keep what we’re doing and a vaccine will be along soon.

Pretty shocking advice from a Dr who had just been tested, unless she was trying to convince herself.

Donald Trump

Aegir wrote: »

I was pretty amazed at Ciara Kelly’s comments to a caller on Monday.

She said we just need to keep what we’re doing and a vaccine will be along soon.

Pretty shocking advice from a Dr who had just been tested, unless she was trying to convince herself.

What was wrong with her advice? Do you think that people should not continue to keep doing what they are doing (i.e. social distancing?). All she was doing was reassuring people. There would be a lot of vulnerable and worried people out there

I posted it over on the Brexit thread, but apparently it took Macron ordering Johnson that the UK needed to get its act in order for him to tell pubs to close

Donald Trump

Donald Trump wrote: »

What was wrong with her advice? Do you think that people should not continue to keep doing what they are doing (i.e. social distancing?). All she was doing was reassuring people. There would be a lot of vulnerable and worried people out there

I posted it over on the Brexit thread, but apparently it took Macron ordering Johnson that the UK needed to get its act in order for him to tell pubs to close

Apparently?

Nothing like the word apparently in front of a sentence to give it full credibility.