Creche charging for child's place during closure.

Fireball81

Strumms wrote: »

You don’t pay for a service that doesn’t get provided...

If I had my car booked in for a service tomorrow and the garage is closed, they txt me looking for credit card details? They’d be told to go and fûck themselves.

My gym membership expires tonight, should I also go online, with my credit card paying for a service they for the time being can’t provide? Will I fûck !

I usually go for pints on Tuesday, do I get a message from the owner requesting payment of 20 euro so he can keep his staff ?

Not a hope.. complete bullshît.

It's not really the same as those examples.

For all of those you have a choice where to take your business, in some areas (like ours) we don"t have a choice of childcare facilities.

That is the difference.

Re our deposit paid, I was confused...the boss confirmed we paid €500 for the 3 kids - refunded when they leave.

Sleeper12

rainemac wrote:

They have the option to pay prsi of €500 per year if earning under €15,000 and so can avail of jobseekers or self-employed job seekers.

Exactly how many do you suppose have paid 500 PRSI? Most don't even realise that they were supposed to notify revenue that they were availing of the scheme. It's the same with the rent a room scheme. Almost no one notified revenue.

jrosen

Is it not the case that you pay once the creche can take your child but you dont pay if they are not available to take your child?

rainemac

Jade2015 wrote: »

I think 305eur pw is the amount anyone who is applying for the dole under the covid 19 application.
If for example a creche worker earns 600eur pw I think the government should also put in a scheme where the owner has to pay the short fall amount per week like 295eur for up to six weeks (sort of like a statute redundancy pay.) Then the creche owner should reduce the fees to the parents by about 305eur or slightly more as their electricity Bill's will be lower. Then I think the government should also step in and offer some sort of emergency grant to the creche owners and pay double the children's allowance for two months to ALL parents who receive children's allowance
That way no one really loses out.
If creche owners are also still been paid by the government for ECCE schemes etc. Then I think this should also factor into the reduction of fees to parents

It's the usual jobseekers amount of €203. €305 is for ppl that have been diagnosed with covid-19

rainemac

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Exactly how many do you suppose have paid 500 PRSI? Most don't even realise that they were supposed to notify revenue that they were availing of the scheme. It's the same with the rent a room scheme. Almost no one notified revenue.

I don't know but prsi is available to them at a reasonable amount per year. Anyways childminders have been notified that they can continue to operate at this time if the choose to so and many probably will.

Sleeper12

rainemac wrote:

I don't know but prsi is available to them at a reasonable amount per year. Anyways childminders have been notified that they can continue to operate at this time if the choose to so and many probably will.

Many of the creche workers are now minding children from the closed creche as a nixer.

AulWan

rainemac wrote: »

I don't know but prsi is available to them at a reasonable amount per year. Anyways childminders have been notified that they can continue to operate at this time if the choose to so and many probably will.

I'm pretty sure I read that the Covid-19 Pandemic Unemployment Payment is not conditional on having enough PRSI contributions being paid.

Though I am open to correction on that.

Sleeper12

AulWan wrote:

I'm pretty sure I read that the Covid-19 Pandemic Unemployment Payment is not conditional on having enough PRSI contributions being paid.

They have to have some prsi paid. Otherwise what is to stop stay at home parents from claiming.

AulWan

Sleeper12 wrote: »

They have to have some prsi paid. Otherwise what is to stop stay at home parents from claiming.

As I said, I'm pretty sure they said the emergency payment was not subject to "the usual" PRSI contributions, but I can't find anything on line that says it is, either.

Sleeper12

AulWan wrote:

As I said, I'm pretty sure they said the emergency payment was not subject to "the usual" PRSI contributions, but I can't find anything on line that says it is, either.

I heard you & you are correct. You don't have to have paid PRSI for the usual length of time. However you do have to be paying some amount of PRSI to qualify. If you mind children in your own home availing of the 15k tax free and didn't pay PRSI then you aren't entitled to claim.

AulWan

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I heard you & you are correct. You don't have to have paid PRSI for the usual length of time. However you do have to be paying some amount of PRSI to qualify. If you mind children in your own home availing of the 15k tax free and didn't pay PRSI then you aren't entitled to claim.

Link?

Thanks.

Strumms

Essentially what the creche is doing is trying to bully people into keeping their revenue stream open and flowing while not providing the service that they are being paid for... while they wait it out if I’m a parent I’m looking for alternative facilities.

Scenario....If I have a darts team that goes around the pub circuit playing rivals every Saturday night, we always book the same taxi with a people carrier to collect us and take us to the venue and then drop us back... the agreed charge is 60 euros per night, about 260 a month say with tips..... with the games cancelled should that taxi company expect me and my mates to be forking out cash to them for nada ?

Bullshît, i pay for a service, when that service cannot or is not to be provided regardless of reason, I’m not paying...

awec

Strumms wrote: »

Essentially what the creche is doing is trying to bully people into keeping their revenue stream open and flowing while not providing the service that they are being paid for... while they wait it out if I’m a parent I’m looking for alternative facilities.

Scenario....If I have a darts team that goes around the pub circuit playing rivals every Saturday night, we always book the same taxi with a people carrier to collect us and take us to the venue and then drop us back... the agreed charge is 60 euros per night, about 260 a month say with tips..... with the games cancelled should that taxi company expect me and my mates to be forking out cash to them for nada ?

Bullshît, i pay for a service, when that service cannot or is not to be provided regardless of reason, I’m not paying...

Alternative facilities?

Have you been shopping around for crèche places recently?

Sleeper12

AulWan wrote:

Link?

Link to what?

You can't claim any dole, including this one, without some PRSI paid first. The government announced that the requirements of full PRSI duration will be waved. They didn't say people who haven't paid prsi can now claim

How do you suppose they would know who was working & who wasn't? Without requiring some PRSI paid it would leave the floodgates open for stay at home parents to claim this money. My wife, who hasn't worked outside the home in close to 30 years could claim it if no PRSI was required.

AulWan

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Link to what?

You can't claim any dole, including this one, without some PRSI paid first. The government announced that the requirements of full PRSI duration will be waved. They didn't say people who haven't paid prsi can now claim

How do you suppose they would know who was working & who wasn't? Without requiring some PRSI paid it would leave the floodgates open for stay at home parents to claim this money. My wife, who hasn't worked outside the home in close to 30 years could claim it if no PRSI was required.

I'm not trying to argue with you Sleeper12, but I do remember when they announced the payment on RTE news very clearly, and they said that the payment would be include self employed, and that is was not subject to having made PRSI contributions. I remember it because I was surprised by it.

I presume only those who are registered as self-employed with Revenue would be able to claim. A childminder claiming the exemption would be registered.

enricoh

awec wrote: »

Alternative facilities?

Have you been shopping around for crèche places recently?

Comparing taxis to creches! We know the answer to that already awec!
Our eldest qualifies for the ecce hours this year. If we don't pay for the next few months it'll be virtually impossible to get another creche for her, plus the creche is on the way to work. Hassle!

Sleeper12

AulWan wrote:

I'm not trying to argue with you Sleeper12, but I do remember when they announced the payment on RTE news very clearly, and they said that the payment would be include self employed, and that is was not subject to having made PRSI contributions. I remember it because I was surprised by it.

No. They said that it was not subject to the usual requirement of PRSI. The normal requirement is 104 weeks PRSI. You don't have to have the full 104 weeks PRSI to qualify but you need some PRSI paid. If you haven't made any PRSI payments then you haven't been working

Self employed pay PRSI & are entitled to regular social welfare benefits so they would automatically be entitled to this payment anyway. They only mentioned self employed because many people aren't aware that self employed can get social welfare benefits.

AulWan

Sleeper12 wrote: »

No. They said that it was not subject to the usual requirement of PRSI. The normal requirement is 104 weeks PRSI. You don't have to have the full 104 weeks PRSI to qualify but you need some PRSI paid. If you haven't made any PRSI payments then you haven't been working

Self employed pay PRSI & are entitled to regular social welfare benefits so they would automatically be entitled to this payment anyway. They only mentioned self employed because many people aren't aware that self employed can get social welfare benefits.

Thats not what was said.

Self employed can pay voluntary PRSI. They are not obliged to pay it. Someone could be working all their life as a self-employed person without paying it - does this mean they "haven't been working?"

But I'll leave it there, otherwise we're just going around in circles.

AulWan

Sleeper12 wrote: »

No. They said that it was not subject to the usual requirement of PRSI. The normal requirement is 104 weeks PRSI. You don't have to have the full 104 weeks PRSI to qualify but you need some PRSI paid. If you haven't made any PRSI payments then you haven't been working

Self employed pay PRSI & are entitled to regular social welfare benefits so they would automatically be entitled to this payment anyway. They only mentioned self employed because many people aren't aware that self employed can get social welfare benefits.

Thats not what was said. I remember it very clearly.

Self employed can opt to pay voluntary PRSI. They are not obliged to pay it. Someone could be working all their life as a self-employed person without ever paying it. That doesn't mean they "haven't been working".

But I'll leave it there, otherwise we're just going around in circles.

ismat

AulWan wrote: »

Thats not what was said. I remember it very clearly.

Self employed can opt to pay voluntary PRSI. They are not obliged to pay it. Someone could be working all their life as a self-employed person without ever paying it. That doesn't mean they "haven't been working".

But I'll leave it there, otherwise we're just going around in circles.

This is 100% incorrect

Sleeper12

AulWan wrote: »

Thats not what was said. I remember it very clearly.

Self employed can opt to pay voluntary PRSI. They are not obliged to pay it. Someone could be working all their life as a self-employed person without ever paying it. That doesn't mean they "haven't been working".

But I'll leave it there, otherwise we're just going around in circles.

ismat wrote: »

This is 100% incorrect

Eh, it's 100 percent wrong

I am self employed & I always have had to pay PRSI. Going back 30 years I have had to pay PRSI. This is another Myth that self employed don't pay PRSI. Any self employed person will tell you, you are wrong

PRSI for Self-Employed

The class of PRSI contribution paid by self-employed people is Class S.
All self-employed people aged between 16 years and pensionable age (currently 66 years) with earnings more than a specified amount (currently €5,000 per annum) must pay PRSI.
This PRSI contribution is either 4% of all your reckonable income, or an annual minimum charge of €500, whichever is greater. Under the self-assessment system, PRSI is paid directly to Revenue together with any other amount due.

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/80e5ab-prsi-pay-related-social-insurance/


My original point was that most minding children at home haven't notified revenue that they are doing this in the exact same way that most people renting out rooms haven't notified revenue because they didn't know they had to. You are not availing of the scheme unless you notify revenue.



Without notifying revenue they are just earning money cash in hand / under the counter & it's illegal Most minding children at home for ridiculously low fee of 5 euro or less per hour haven't notified revenue, don't have police clearance & don't have nanny car insurance & don't have childminder insurance for their home.

AulWan

Sleeper12 wrote: »

My original point was that most minding children at home haven't notified revenue that they are doing this in the exact same way that most people renting out rooms haven't notified revenue because they didn't know they had to. You are not availing of the scheme unless you notify revenue.

Without notifying revenue they are just earning money cash in hand / under the counter & it's illegal Most minding children at home for ridiculously low fee of 5 euro r haven't notified revenue, don't have police clearance & don't have naor less per hounny car insurance & don't have childminder insurance for their home.

Eh, if you go back and look at my first post on this, that is actually what I said at the start, until YOU started contradicting me.

JHFC.

I may have been wrong about the "compulsory" PRSI for self employed, BUT I am not wrong about what I heard them say about the PRSI conditions for it on RTE.

Sleeper12

AulWan wrote: »

Eh, if you go back and look at my first post on this, that is actually what I said at the start, until YOU started contradicting me.

JHFC.

I may have been wrong about the "compulsory" PRSI for self employed, BUT I am not wrong about what I heard them say about the PRSI conditions for it on RTE.

You said that you would be happy to be corrected. I corrected you & tbh I don't think you have been happy since.

Cabin fever maybe

AulWan

AulWan wrote: »

If the childminders who mind in their own homes are registered as self employed, they should be able to claim the social welfare payment, if parents can't pay.

If they're not registered, and have a cash in hand arrangement with the parents, they won't.

THIS is what I said. Then YOU butted in, saying the Pandemic Payment for self employed was dependant on PRSI contributions.

According to recent posts, PRSI is mandatory so there should be no problem, despite the fact that I clearly heard it reported on RTE, that PRSI contributions were not required to apply to the pandemic payment.

I asked you to provide a link saying otherwise, you said there wasn't one. So... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

___

Millem

I thought it was announced that the business should pay their staff the job seekers amount then claim it back at a later date?

Dravokivich

Millem wrote: »

I thought it was announced that the business should pay their staff the job seekers amount then claim it back at a later date?

How would that work, with no money coming in?

Millem

Dravokivich wrote: »

How would that work, with no money coming in?

Social Protection Minister Regina Doherty has asked all employers to try their best in paying employees a minimum of €203 per week.
She said that all employers who do so will be reimbursed by the government for each of the payments made.

*
‘A temporary refund scheme is being established for this purpose. This refund will be for €203 per worker per week.

This means that workers retain their link with employers and there is no need for them personally to submit a jobseekers claim.’

Obviously, with no business coming in the door, it will not be possible for every employer to continue to pay staff over the coming weeks.

In that situation, Minister Doherty said that the government is also establishing ‘a new Covid-19 Pandemic Unemployment Payment specifically designed to get thousands of people into payment as quickly as possible’.

During the six week period, those who avail of the payment will have to complete a jobseekers’ form.

(On phone so can’t post links!!)

Arciphel

So in this scenario, parents continue to pay the creche, the creche pay the employees and then at some stage in the future the creche owner will receive the €203 per worker per week refund. Are they then going to divide that up and give it back to the parents who paid their fees during the closure? Are they going to give it to their employees? No, they are most likely going to trouser it. The only people who will get punished here are the parents who continue to pay the fees.

Assuming that (unfortunately) most creche staff are on minimum wage that means their pay is about €414 a week. Deduct €203, it's about half. Taking into account the reduction in utilities, food etc. it seems a common sense solution would be to pay half fees during the closure, if you can. I am being off the wall here?

Sebastian Dangerfield

Arciphel wrote: »

So in this scenario, parents continue to pay the creche, the creche pay the employees and then at some stage in the future the creche owner will receive the €203 per worker per week refund. Are they then going to divide that up and give it back to the parents who paid their fees during the closure? Are they going to give it to their employees? No, they are most likely going to trouser it. The only people who will get punished here are the parents who continue to pay the fees.

Assuming that (unfortunately) most creche staff are on minimum wage that means their pay is about €414 a week. Deduct €203, it's about half. Taking into account the reduction in utilities, food etc. it seems a common sense solution would be to pay half fees during the closure, if you can. I am being off the wall here?

If our creche is anything to go by, they will play hardball with every parent and tell them that everyone else is paying in full, even if that is not the case. They big up things like bringing the kitchen and facilities up to the required standards like they're doing us a favour.

That's why I will be monitoring here closely and engaging with as many other parents in our creche as possible.

youcancallmeal

Our creche sent an email shortly after the closure last week to ask us to keep paying so they can pay their staff. We had already paid March fees for our 2 kids but considering not doing so from April omwards. Realistically the creches are going to be closed for months and our job security is tenous at the moment. Like everything Coronavirus related it's a **** situation but I can't justify paying full amount for service we aren't getting