Will you travel? [Mod Note in Post #1 - Travel Discussion Only! Megathread]

Tenzor07

gmisk wrote: »

You have zero evidence that travel is not a significant problem.
The below is one example...from a pretty much empty plane.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40213163.html

Wow, this chestnut keeps popping up every time airtravel is mentioned...!

This happened last summer when cases in Ireland were around 5/100k

And amazing how the HSE managed to contact trace each and every passenger and their contacts...whereas we know the system was totally ineffective and not fit for purpose...

JoeExotic81

JoeExotic81 wrote: »

"How one trip to the groceries resulted in 5,000 cases"

Mary had covid, she put her covidy hands on a sliced pan giving it the squeeze test. It failed the test, she replaced it, with new bonus covid.

John picked up the covid bread.

John's whole family of 6 later that day got covid.

John's daughter had a party for her daughter. That party had 6 people. All those got covid, and all the kids, and their classes, and schools.

John went to a restaurant over Christmas. They all got covid.

Those articles are horsesh!t and pop up from time to time.

Yes, covid is very easy to transfer. Everywhere. Not just on fvckin planes.

Yeah but I disinfect my hands leaving the shop and going in
Thats personal responsibility
If I'm bunched up in an airport queue,I've no option even with a mask to be breathing someone else's air
Heathrow is terrible for it as are a lot of US airports from photos and videos I've seen
No issues with sitting in a plane masked as long as I'm away from others
Thats not happening and not economical for airlines
Best outlook in a few months is no vax no fly in my opinion
The 72hr covid test isn't secure enough

JoeExotic81

AuntySnow wrote: »

Yeah but I disinfect my hands leaving the shop and going in
Thats personal responsibility
If I'm bunched up in an airport queue,I've no option even with a mask to be breathing someone else's air
Heathrow is terrible for it as are a lot of US airports from photos and videos I've seen
No issues with sitting in a plane masked as long as I'm away from others
Thats not happening and not economical for airlines
Best outlook in a few months is no vax no fly in my opinion
The 72hr covid test isn't secure enough

Have you travelled by plane recently or are you just making things up?

I've flown four times in the past two months and never felt safer. There was certainly no bunching in queues and I wasn't forced to breath anyone else's air.

Way more bunching in Dunnes every time I do my shopping. Air travel is not the problem.

Red Silurian

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Wow, this chestnut keeps popping up every time airtravel is mentioned...!

This happened last summer when cases in Ireland were around 5/100k

And amazing how the HSE managed to contact trace each and every passenger and their contacts...whereas we know the system was totally ineffective and not fit for purpose...

When Irelands incidence of cases was 5/100k that equates to 50 active cases so this single flight almost doubled our case load...

The article says that the virus was then spread due to social gatherings which to me suggests that they weren't obeying the 14 day self-isolation

JoeExotic81

JoeExotic81 wrote: »

Have you travelled by plane recently or are you just making things up?

I've flown four times in the past two months and never felt safer. There was certainly no bunching in queues and I wasn't forced to breath anyone else's air.

Way more bunching in Dunnes every time I do my shopping. Air travel is not the problem.

I'm BA gold,so fairly aware of what's involved
You are in control of the bunching in your shopping centre of choice
Actually Dublin isn't the worst,I'll grant you that because there's hardly anyone flying
Its the arrival or connecting I'd be more concerned about at the foreign airport and of course coming back
I'd certainly not go to Heathrow at the moment (or a lot of others)

Tenzor07

colmtheperson wrote: »

When Irelands incidence of cases was 5/100k that equates to 50 active cases so this single flight almost doubled our case load...The article says that the virus was then spread due to social gatherings which to me suggests that they weren't obeying the 14 day self-isolation

Point is... one study from last summer is still being dragged up each time to bash Aviation travel.... we don't know where these passengers picked up the virus... in there own country... in a transit country... did they have it before they boarded the flight....
How come just one flight was fully contract traced when the system failed to track community transmissions last summer..
.....the issue then isn't Air travel, it's what it's always been...i.e. how people behave when they get to a destination, as in the cases of meat processing plant workers, they went into work with symptoms or being identified as close contacts because they were afraid of losing their jobs...

JoeExotic81

AuntySnow wrote: »

I'm BA gold,so fairly aware of what's involved
You are in control of the bunching in your shopping centre of choice
Actually Dublin isn't the worst,I'll grant you that because there's hardly anyone flying
Its the arrival or connecting I'd be more concerned about at the foreign airport and of course coming back
I'd certainly not go to Heathrow at the moment (or a lot of others)

I don't care if you own BA, have you travelled by plane in the last year?

You are in control even more so of the bunching in your airport of choice as they are far more policed and controlled environments than the groceries.

The only critics of air travel that aren't hypocrites are those who've not left their house in a year.

Tenzor07

JoeExotic81 wrote: »

The only critics of air travel that aren't hypocrites are those who've not left their house in a year.

Hit the nail on the head.... online forums/comments sections are full of people who've been hiding under the covers at home since last March when it comes to Air Travel...

It has been perfectly safe to travel by air so long as you follow all the precautions...
Your behavior is what counts when you travel and get to a destination, and are at just as high a risk in crowded areas whether that's 5k from home or 5000k

Red Silurian

JoeExotic81 wrote: »

"How one trip to the groceries resulted in 5,000 cases"

Mary had covid, she put her covidy hands on a sliced pan giving it the squeeze test. It failed the test, she replaced it, with new bonus covid.

John picked up the covid bread.

John's whole family of 6 later that day got covid.

John's daughter had a party for her daughter. That party had 6 people. All those got covid, and all the kids, and their classes, and schools.

John went to a restaurant over Christmas. They all got covid.

Those articles are horsesh!t and pop up from time to time.

Yes, covid is very easy to transfer. Everywhere. Not just on fvckin planes.

JoeExotic81 wrote: »

You can do the exact same analysis on any train or bus in this country, or even the bloody queue in the groceries.

Trains and buses don't usually bring passengers between countries with higher infection rates than Ireland into the country though. While planes themselves may be safe the countries they come from are the issue

Grocery shop queues space people 2m apart and you generally aren't in the vicinity of another person for more than a couple of seconds, couple that with sanitising your hands before and after entry of a supermarket then as long as John doesn't touch his face the virus doesn't get him...

Also if John and his family of 6 tested positive for COVID he shouldn't have had a party or been out in a restaurant

JoeExotic81

colmtheperson wrote: »

Trains and buses don't usually bring passengers between countries with higher infection rates than Ireland into the country though. While planes themselves may be safe the countries they come from are the issue

Grocery shop queues space people 2m apart and you generally aren't in the vicinity of another person for more than a couple of seconds, couple that with sanitising your hands before and after entry of a supermarket then as long as John doesn't touch his face the virus doesn't get him...

Also if John and his family of 6 tested positive for COVID he shouldn't have had a party or been out in a restaurant

Jaysus.

Not sure where to start with this. Not even gonna bother. Brain dead.

Threadbanned

Red Silurian

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Point is... one study from last summer is still being dragged up each time to bash Aviation travel...

Would you prefer a more recent example like the South African or Brazilian variant being found in Ireland? I'm fairly sure the people carrying these variants didn't swim over

munchkin_utd

colmtheperson wrote: »

Would you prefer a more recent example like the South African or Brazilian variant being found in Ireland? I'm fairly sure the people carrying these variants didn't swim over

so, whats the end game ?

It took the 1918 virus about 50 years to eventually go out of existance. Do we ban or restrict travel for 50 years then presuming the same will happen with this virus and its variants ?

JoeExotic81

JoeExotic81 wrote: »

I don't care if you own BA, have you travelled by plane in the last year?

You are in control even more so of the bunching in your airport of choice as they are far more policed and controlled environments than the groceries.

The only critics of air travel that aren't hypocrites are those who've not left their house in a year.

You are not in control of the scrum getting off a plane or in arrivals in a foreign country
Your tone in reply to me suggests if there were flame throwers firing balls of flame at you at your arrival airport, you'd carry on
Thats your decision in your personal responsibility, you just don't care
I'm only stating my own standards
You're entitled to yours untill public health officials remove them
No issues there from me

As for being a hypocrite for going out the door,that's just incorrect
You're not a hypocrite if you are taking all the known precautions
Adding to the situations where you need new vigilance like flying into a crowded foreign airport is a personal decision
However it's looking likely that that option for leisure is going to be removed for a while, first for high risk countries and probably everywhere if hospitals continue to be over run
I know you disagree with that
I'm fine with it
We disagree, that's all

RobitTV

Varadkar said last night that he expects the cases to plunge to very low levels by early March. This can happen without trying to throw darts at the travel industry and playing the same old blame game.

What will people blame next when the cases plunge to low levels in March? running out of scapegoats...

Red Silurian

munchkin_utd wrote: »

so, whats the end game ?

It took the 1918 virus about 50 years to eventually go out of existance. Do we ban or restrict travel for 50 years then presuming the same will happen with this virus and its variants ?

Restrict from the point of view of mandatory quarantine on arrival would probably do the trick, with vaccines on the horizon I'd say 2-3 years at the very top end...

I think it's worthy of note that every case related to air travel would have been no more than an isolated incident if existing quarantining rules were followed but when you're not being monitored why would you bother?

Red Silurian

RobitTV wrote: »

Varadkar said last night that he expects the cases to plunge to very low levels by early March. This can happen without trying to throw darts at the travel industry and playing the same old blame game.

What will people blame next when the cases plunge to low levels in March? running out of scapegoats...

Perhaps he expects cases to plunge because of the proposed quarantine rules? In which case nobody will be to blame because there won't be a spike

pottokblue

Deeply saddened that the gov has deemed holidays as non essential. They are essential to me to help prevent burnout and to socialise with family and friends. Last time I was in France was Nov2019 for grandmeres funeral I dont know when next time will be...

Tenzor07

colmtheperson wrote: »

Would you prefer a more recent example like the South African or Brazilian variant being found in Ireland? I'm fairly sure the people carrying these variants didn't swim over

Guess what, it's a Virus, and like the Flu it mutates through the life cycle...

Belfast variant... Close the borders.

Kerry variant, create a border..

unless you want to confine everyone to their homes and have an Army of drones drop food parcels then just ensure you follow the Covid rules and sit tight and await the jab....

Red Silurian

pottokblue wrote: »

Deeply saddened that the gov has deemed holidays as non essential. They are essential to me to help prevent burnout and to socialise with family and friends. Last time I was in France was Nov2019 for grandmeres funeral I dont know when next time will be...

Correction - foreign holidays aren't deemed essential

Tazz T

munchkin_utd wrote: »

so, whats the end game ?

It took the 1918 virus about 50 years to eventually go out of existance. Do we ban or restrict travel for 50 years then presuming the same will happen with this virus and its variants ?

The 1918 virus didn't 'go out of existence' - it's still here, although much less deadly. The jab the elderly receive coming up to flu season is to vaccinate against what it evolved into.

The bigger issue is once numbers are down and most, if not everyone, is vaxxed and we know for sure that it's effective against new variants, are we still going to be banning non-essential travel, like Leo suggested for an additional year? Still requiring costly PCRs and quarantine?

For all we know the virus could have run its course with the end of the 3rd wave (just like every other virus since the beginning of history) by the beginning of March. Will we still be locked down and annihilate the aviation and tourism industries just to be sure?

RobitTV

colmtheperson wrote: »

Perhaps he expects cases to plunge because of the proposed quarantine rules? In which case nobody will be to blame because there won't be a spike

Cases have been declining now for many days without any of these rules, so this will not make one single iota of a difference. People are arriving back here with a negative covid result. Travel makes up almost nothing when it comes to the daily case rate. It's overwhelmingly community transmission. Travel is so insignificant it's not even worth the hype.

pjohnson

agoodpunt wrote: »

heard that prick on the 1 news 0 covid clown a fetus that should not have survived

Well they certainly are a collection of words.

Red Silurian

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Guess what, it's a Virus, and like the Flu it mutates through the life cycle...

Belfast variant... Close the borders.

Kerry variant, create a border..

unless you want to confine everyone to their homes and have an Army of drones drop food parcels then just ensure you follow the Covid rules and sit tight and await the jab....

Exactly, I'm not sure what you mean by Belfast and Kerry variants but the variant that was widespread in Spain over July and August was the dominant one in Ireland in October

My suggestion is that Irish people went to Spain for their holidays and brought it back with them, after landing they ripped up the passenger locator form and went about their daily business thereby spreading the virus


Do you have a more plausible theory as to how it became the most dominant strain?

Red Silurian

RobitTV wrote: »

Cases have been declining now for many days without any of these rules, so this will not make one single iota of a difference. People are arriving back here with a negative covid result. Travel makes up almost nothing when it comes to the daily case rate. It's overwhelmingly community transmission. Travel is so insignificant it's not even worth the hype.

Because nobody is traveling, most (all?) January holiday destinations have closed their tourism industries and/or restricted their borders so there's very few coming back

Closing borders in the coming days will stop the Easter tourists from making plans to go abroad

RobitTV

colmtheperson wrote: »

Because nobody is traveling, most (all?) January holiday destinations have closed their tourism industries and/or restricted their borders so there's very few coming back

Closing borders in the coming days will stop the Easter tourists from making plans to go abroad

In Ireland you only need a PCR test and you can still travel, and then you can arrive home with a PCR test without having to quarantine in a hotel. So I don't see people stopping travelling if that remains the case moving forward.

The government only seem to be forcing the mandatory quarantine measures on passengers who arrive from Brazil / South Africa.

Red Silurian

RobitTV wrote: »

In Ireland you only need a PCR test and you can still travel, and then you can arrive home with a PCR test without having to quarantine in a hotel.

PCR tests cost about €150 per person, that's a significant cost added to a family trip away for 2 weeks

RobitTV wrote: »

The government only seem to be forcing the mandatory quarantine measures on passengers who arrive from Brazil / South Africa.

For now, I think this countries on that list will increase in time to come , firstly to the ones that get rapid spread of the Brazil/SA variants and then to the rest

Remember facemasks went from being recommended in enclosed space to being mandatory to now being recommended outdoors also

dartboardio

There will be plenty of people still travelling I am sure. Well, the ones that are travelling to 'escape' lockdown. Including myself.


I'm perfectly happy to pay €140 for a boots PCR test in order to ensure I can get away for a couple of months. It's so stupid that the focus is on travel restrictions when Leo Varadkar and MM have admitted themselves that there is very low cases that have come from international travel.

It's not illegal to travel abroad and I won't have anyone trying to tell me it is, I am perfectly within my own rights to travel safely, getting a hopefully negative PCR test before I travel, wearing mask, sanitizing , etc. If the Gardai fine me €100 that's fair enough, however they cannot stop me from getting on the flight so that's fine.

spodoinkle

I cant wait to go to Lanzorote in May, my wife and I will have the vaccine by then, happy days

mel123

Mandatory testing when you arrive at the airport, a rapid test 30-60 minutes. The cost on the person travelling. You want to come in to Ireland or you dont, factor it in to the cost of your holiday.

Multipass

RobitTV wrote: »

Varadkar said last night that he expects the cases to plunge to very low levels by early March. This can happen without trying to throw darts at the travel industry and playing the same old blame game.

What will people blame next when the cases plunge to low levels in March? running out of scapegoats...

They’ll probably turn back onto young people meeting each other out in the sunshine. How dare they etc etc