Gardaí: Provo Army Council oversees PIRA & SF

ILoveYourVibes

Faugheen wrote: »

It’s the Gardai’s responsibility to protect the state and the people in it!!

I actually can’t believe people don’t think this is in the public’s interest. If it was a question about the Blueshirts you can guarantee the same people that think Drew Harris should keep shtum about the Army Council would be up in arms if he kept quiet about the Blueshirts.

The whole rush to attack Drew Harris and suggest this isn’t a matter for the Gardai to have a stance on is exactly why we’re nowhere near ready for a United Ireland. It stinks of ‘nothing to see here’ and victimisation.

My issue with Harris is this. He and the British govt keep issuing this statement with no clear simple and demonstrable evidence.

They seem to think because its them saying it we will believe it. I think its because he is used to speaking to a British audience. Well he isn't.

British assumptions and inductive reasoning are not good enough.

I want the truth.

It should be easy to find out how exactly sf is structured and IF there is a connection to the IRA army council to show how that operates and give clear evidence.

So far that hasn't happened.

My GUT feeling is this. Several ex members of the Army council are members of SF. The Army council is inactive in terms of political violence but active politically. Mary Lou has at least some power or sway. I would agree its probably no where NEAR as open as it should be.

The thing is i can't issue my GUT FEELING as a statement. Its a feeling. Its not backed up by evidence. It doesn't lay out in demonstrable and proven terms how sf is structured. Its just a guess.

No one really seems to care what the factual truth is. Thats not good enough for me.

I want to really KNOW.

I have a sneaking suspicion SF will never be truly open about its inner workings to save some ex IRA members. That's not acceptable. You can't hide the truth to save yourself when it comes to these things.

smurgen

Faugheen wrote: »

Another one who hasn’t actually read what he said.

‘Untenable’ - give me strength.

He's made a serious comment with no evidence.he needs to produce evidence or be fired.it's a simple as that.

Feisar

Faugheen wrote: »

It’s the Gardai’s responsibility to protect the state and the people in it!!

I actually can’t believe people don’t think this is in the public’s interest. If it was a question about the Blueshirts you can guarantee the same people that think Drew Harris should keep shtum about the Army Council would be up in arms if he kept quiet about the Blueshirts.

The whole rush to attack Drew Harris and suggest this isn’t a matter for the Gardai to have a stance on is exactly why we’re nowhere near ready for a United Ireland. It stinks of ‘nothing to see here’ and victimisation.

I'm in no rush to attack the man, he's dead right. SF are a shower of tramps.

HOWEVER let pretend they had a majority. The Gardaí and Army would have to do as they were told by SF in government.

dxhound2005

Feisar wrote: »

IMHO "no comment" would be the right answer.

The Gardí/Army are the non political servants of the state.

It is a political appointment, necessarily so because the office holder is involved in the apparatus which protects the security of the State. Which has been under threat from Republicans since it was founded.

Earlier, speaking at a graduation ceremony of new recruits in Templemore, Commissioner Harris said: "In national security matters and matters around the State, it is my obligation to report to the government as you would expect me to do.

The government published the report in 2015 which gave the assessment the IRA still exists, that it has not gone away. It is timely now that SF are looking to be in government, to ask again whether the IRA has gone away or not.

Mary Lou gave herself a nice little get out clause when she was asked about it today.

Asked if the IRA still exists even as political organisation, Ms McDonald said: "No it does not, so far as I am aware, no it does not.

woohoo!!!

Faugheen wrote: »

Another one who hasn’t actually read what he said.

‘Untenable’ - give me strength.

Except it unfortunately is, it gives me no pleasure in saying such.

efanton

I really do despair.

I hear people here attacking SF with sterotypes. Everything the SF says, does or thinks is bad, real bad.
Are people really that shallow. Some things that SF have proposed obviously rang true with the electorate so obvious not all things that SF says, does or thinks is bad.

Why does a government squander €612 million every year on a HAP scheme that only provides 50,000 home (an average of 12,240 per home) when even using FG costings homes can be built for €160,000 which amortised over 25 years would only cost €6,400 per year. Subtract rents from that cost but add 1.5% interest that the government would be paying.
Yet its perfect acceptable for the state to waste nearly €300 MILLION a year on a policy that doesnt provide enough homes and will only get more significantly expensive as long as its one in the eye for an opposition party. Have people gone insane that they would harm themselves and their country clinging to a dogma that SF are somehow totally evil.


Yet talk to some FF/FG supporters it is impossible for them to get beyond the concept that the state building homes is not only morally right when insufficient homes are being by the private sector but also the most cost effective solution.


Now we have a similar situation with this latest drama created by Drew Harris.
Because it is something that can be used negatively against SF, it is acceptable. It certainly is not acceptable.

What Drew Harris has done is not only wrong it goes against the very principles that this state is based on.
We have a state based on free and democratic politics, that by design and even clearly set out in our constitution, is kept separate from our judicial system. There are very obvious reasons for that.

If a TD, councillor or senator interfered with a court case their would be public outcry and rightly so.
This cuts the other way to. The judiciary and the gardai have no legal, constitutional or moral right to interfere with our political system in any way whatsoever.
This is exactly what has happened with this latest rehash of a 5 year old report.

I dont care whether the allegation are true or not, and neither should anyone else that really cares about our democracy and the independence of its people to be represented by elected representatives.
What has happened today is an utter disgrace.
We have a Garda commissioner who has clearly stepped far outside his remit that it actually is a constitutional issue.
Had a TD been found guilty of interfering or perverting a court case he or she would be expected to offer their resignation and possibly be facing a prison sentence, and rightly so.
Yet now we have a Garda commissioner doing a very similar thing and nothing is said.

Drew Harris has sat on this report for 5 years, done absolutely nothing about it, there has after all been no one arrested or charged with Provisional IRA activity in the last 5 years and absolutely no evidence whatsoever that politicians or party's have been coerced. One would have to assume that what ever information he has is pure hear say and not even admissible in court as evidence, or he has been asleep on the job for the last 5 years.
5 years to build a case, if this evidence was so strong surely there would be the makings of a court case.

Bad enough him admitting that he hasn't done his job (if what he professes to be true), but to then interfere in the political functions of our country, and not have his resignation called for is pure lunacy.

I do take it that those using this story to attack a political party (it doesnt matter which party is involved) actually do believe in democracy and our constitution as flawed as they may be?

FrancieBrady

holyhead wrote: »

I'm not sure how SF will break the link, if ever with the IRA. Mary Lou can deny all she wants but the public perception is unlikely to change. Those of a non SF persuasion will see the IRA links as problematic to them being in government. Those who voted for SF, will not give a hoot.

What should concern FF/FG is that those who will vote probably don't give a hoot either.

The Rape of Lucretia

People are not seeing the wood for the trees here. The idea that the leaders of a foreign terrorist organisation could end up weilding governmental power here is utterly missing the point.
Those 'leaders' are undercover London agents.

Bringing the south into the Brexit Zone is the medium term game here, aligning the south in a customs union and common market with the UK, what is really at play here. A United Ireland UK, the long term goal of Westminster.

Gerry Adams, as one of the British govment's most effective agents, had to come back on the scene to control this delicate stage.

amadangomor

smurgen wrote: »

He's made a serious comment with no evidence.he needs to produce evidence or be fired.it's a simple as that.

OUTRAGEOUS :rolleyes:

Faugheen

woohoo!!! wrote: »

Except it unfortunately is, it gives me no pleasure in saying such.

It is literally his job to report matters of national security to the government.

That is his job. Is it untenable because you don’t like it?

This is a cross border issue. If SF don’t like it then they need to sort their **** out. The Cash for Ash scandal has revealed enough of who is pulling the strings in SF.

FrancieBrady

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

People are not seeing the wood for the trees here. The idea that the leaders of a foreign terrorist organisation could end up weilding governmental power here is utterly missing the point.
Those 'leaders' are undercover London agents.

Bringing the south into the Brexit Zone is the medium term game here, aligning the south in a customs union and common market with the UK, what is really at play here. A United Ireland UK, the long term goal of Westminster.

Gerry Adams, as one of the British govment's most effective agents, had to come back on the scene to control this delicate stage.

:D:D:D

amadangomor

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

People are not seeing the wood for the trees here. The idea that the leaders of a foreign terrorist organisation could end up weilding governmental power here is utterly missing the point.
Those 'leaders' are undercover London agents.

Bringing the south into the Brexit Zone is the medium term game here, aligning the south in a customs union and common market with the UK, what is really at play here. A United Ireland UK, the long term goal of Westminster.

Gerry Adams, as one of the British govment's most effective agents, had to come back on the scene to control this delicate stage.

Ah here. If they took a look at this post they'd run a mile from having anything to do with us:)

woohoo!!!

Faugheen wrote: »

It is literally his job to report matters of national security to the government.

That is his job. Is it untenable because you don’t like it?

This is a cross border issue. If SF don’t like it then they need to sort their **** out. The Cash for Ash scandal has revealed enough of who is pulling the strings in SF.

Drew Harris in 2020 as Garda Commissioner agrees with Drew Harris who in 2015 was the MI5/PSNI Intelligence Coordinator.

In his current role and in the aftermath of what's really a hung Dail, is why for me his position is untenable.

The Rape of Lucretia

efanton wrote: »

Because it is something that can be used negatively against SF, it is acceptable. It certainly is not acceptable.

It most certainly is acceptable. That SF is inextricably linked with its murder and terrorism branch, and greatly controlled by Crown double agents is fully relevant to the formation of Irish government and its grasp on democracy.

Sure. Housing and health matter. Of course, everyone wants them improved. But that is still no reason to vote for, or be governed by, and foreign based army Council of bombers and Westminster infiltrates controlling the puppet string of the delusional dimwit gunmen.

Faugheen

woohoo!!! wrote: »

Drew Harris in 2020 as Garda Commissioner agrees with Drew Harris who in 2015 was the MI5/PSNI Intelligence Coordinator.

In his current role and in the aftermath of what's really a hung Dail, is why for me his position is untenable.

Why is it untenable, because it’s not true?

Or is it untenable because you don’t like it?

This is a Gardai stance, this isn’t just Drew Harris going rogue from the rest of the force and expressing his own views.

dxhound2005

efanton wrote: »

What Drew Harris has done is not only wrong it goes against the very principles that this state is based on.
We have a state based on free and democratic politics, that by design and even clearly set out in our constitution, is kept separate from our judicial system. There are very obvious reasons for that.

What part of the Constitution applies to what the Commissioner reported?

efanton

Faugheen wrote: »

It is literally his job to report matters of national security to the government.

That is his job. Is it untenable because you don’t like it?

This is a cross border issue. If SF don’t like it then they need to sort their **** out. The Cash for Ash scandal has revealed enough of who is pulling the strings in SF.

What you have said is correct. It is his job to report matters of national security such as this this to the government, and I would not be one to say he should not have submitted such a report.
It is also his job to follow up on this report, build a case and bring that to the courts. Five years he has had to do so and no case has been brought, no further evidence acquired.

It is not his job, or the governments, to release these reports to the media.
This is an act of deliberately undermining our constitution and anyone found responsible for doing so should be asked to submit their immediate resignation and/or face criminal proceeding themselves.

How often have we heard the Taoiseach and his ministers refusing to comment because it could adversely affect our judicial process, or national security, yet this is exactly what they have done.

utterly disgraceful.

The Rape of Lucretia

FrancieBrady wrote: »

:D:D:D

Yes. It's funny if it weren't so serious. The up-the-ra and ciuchi-ar-la merchants are being played like a violin, and will not only see NI not leave the UK, but are the levers that will see the 26 lost fields restored to the UK.

Faugheen

https://twitter.com/irishexaminer/status/1230863281457442816?s=21

Wonder will those saying Harris should stay out of this because of his PSNI links will say the same about the driver of a Garda killer who is no longer involved in public life sticking his oar in?

Faugheen

efanton wrote: »

What you have said is correct. It is his job to report matters of national security such as this this to the government, and I would not be one to say he should not have submitted such a report.
It is also his job to follow up on this report, build a case and bring that to the courts. Five years he has had to do so and no case has been brought, no further evidence acquired.

It is not his job, or the governments, to release these reports to the media.
This is an act of deliberately undermining our constitution and anyone found responsible for doing so should be asked to submit their immediate resignation and/or face criminal proceeding themselves.

How often have we heard the Taoiseach and his ministers refusing to comment because it could adversely affect our judicial process, or national security, yet this is exactly what they have done.

utterly disgraceful.

What part of the Constitution is undermined?

corks finest

smurgen wrote: »

Seems more accurate.

https://twitter.com/MallowNews/status/1230858516862251009?s=19

FF/ RUC

FrancieBrady

Faugheen wrote: »

Why is it untenable, because it’s not true?

Or is it untenable because you don’t like it?

This is a Gardai stance, this isn’t just Drew Harris going rogue from the rest of the force and expressing his own views.

The previous Garda Commissioner had a different view. One totally in line with that of the IMC.

ILoveYourVibes

Faugheen wrote: »

What part of the Constitution is undermined?

No part.

efanton

dxhound2005 wrote: »

What part of the Constitution applies to what the Commissioner reported?

There are clear boundaries between the polticial functions of the state, the courts and judiciary, and the press.
Its the same in all functioning democracies.

When these boundaries are removed, or eroded they usually end up badly.
Would you like to live in a state where the government controls the media, where the police and courts can ignore government or the laws created in the Oireachtas

woohoo!!!

Faugheen wrote: »

Why is it untenable, because it’s not true?

Or is it untenable because you don’t like it?

This is a Gardai stance, this isn’t just Drew Harris going rogue from the rest of the force and expressing his own views.

I am questioning its accuracy, today. Two elections since 2015 has hugely changed the political landscape. And in the aftermath of the last election, the head of the gardai has waded in. He knows full well the political implications, ergo his position is untenable. In my view, whenever the next Dail elects a government, the first job of the justice committee should be to haul him in and to explain in full detail what he stated, for it most certainly is a political issue.

FrancieBrady

Faugheen wrote: »

What part of the Constitution is undermined?

Separation of powers.

smurgen

I still can't believe the outgoing taoiseach called the most popular leader of the most popular party in the country a terrorist. This is Trump territory. I seriously though we were better than this.
What's sickening is the smiling and joking he seemed to be doing with Mary Lou off the stage after the leaders debate. it goes to show the character or lack thereof of the man.
When they talked about being the opposition and trying to help through the turmoil of Brexit is this what they meant? These types of comments will completely divide.

ILoveYourVibes

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The previous Garda Commissioner had a different view. One totally in line with that of the IMC.

That's interesting thank you.

Faugheen

smurgen wrote: »

I still can't believe the outgoing taoiseach called the most popular leader of the most popular party in the country a terrorist. This is Trump territory. I seriously though we were better than this.
What's sickening is the smiling and joking he seemed to be doing with Mary Lou off the stage after the leaders debate. it goes to show the character or lack thereof of the man.
When they talked about being the opposition and trying to help through the turmoil of Brexit is this what they meant? These types of comments will completely divide.

Well this just isn’t true.

More lies and hysteria to mask the real issues here. We’re in Trump territory alright, but between O Broin essentially calling the Daily Mail liars for the report on Violet Anne Wynne’s rent debacle and the bull**** that SF supporters are calling accountability as ‘propaganda’, it isn’t FG.

smurgen

woohoo!!! wrote: »

I am questioning its accuracy, today. Two elections since 2015 has hugely changed the political landscape. And in the aftermath of the last election, the head of the gardai has waded in. He knows full well the political implications, ergo his position is untenable. In my view, whenever the next Dail elects a government, the first job of the justice committee should be to haul him in and to explain in full detail what he stated, for it most certainly is a political issue.

They should ask him for all the information he has and what or who promoted him to say what he said. There seems to be seriously shadowy back channels between fine Gael and Garda commissioners e.g Noirin O Sullivan and Martin Callinan two disgraced commissioners.